Discussion:
Benediction / c&c
(too old to reply)
George Dance
2009-02-05 00:41:35 UTC
Permalink
Benediction

Nothing is changed by the rising sun
itself, yet darkness retreats;
behind me, land skull-white to soon be green,
before, grey ocean to be vivid aqua,
all of it now enlightened, all of it
particles in random chaos,
molecules in rigid stasis,
so much from void; my eyes the very same
giving it all the beauty,
my words the meaning,
my hearing all the song. I am
the hub, the fixed point,
the still point without which there is no dance
and there is always the dance,
motion and stillness ever entwined,
now illuminated. Yet
nothing is changed, no, nothing is new
but a fresh breeze from the sea; and on the sea
another ship charts course, cutting
prow through breakers, churning
blades amid the foam, curling
sheets of white water
around the mewing gulls.
Dale Houstman
2009-02-05 02:45:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Dance
Benediction
Nothing is changed by the rising sun
itself, yet darkness retreats;
That's a very bad enjambment, and a non-intriguing paradox: if "nothing
is changed" by the rising sun, then how can "darkness retreat" since
that's a change? This isn't even to mention the utter flat dullness of
the opening two lines, which are really only informing us that sunrise
means less darkness. Not exactly a poetic revelation, or even a
particularly sharp observation. More along the lines of a massively
stoned dullard noticing they have five fingers on each hand.
Post by George Dance
behind me, land skull-white to soon be green,
Awkward to a fault...
Post by George Dance
before, grey ocean to be vivid aqua,
These are stunningly dull sub-images, which keep reiterating the obvious
- that the sunrise (which supposedly changes nothing) adds color to the
things of darkness. It wasn't actually worth saying once, and you can't
stop saying it. Extremely boring stuff that, and none of it redeemed by
a clever bit of language, or a neatly-constructed image...
Post by George Dance
all of it now enlightened, all of it
particles in random chaos,
molecules in rigid stasis,
From the banal hammering home of a mediocre "idea" to flights of
moronic "scientific" abstraction. Hideous...
Post by George Dance
so much from void; my eyes the very same
giving it all the beauty,
my words the meaning,
my hearing all the song. I am
the hub, the fixed point,
the still point without which there is no dance
and there is always the dance,
motion and stillness ever entwined,
now illuminated. Yet
Really and truly horrible: an ugly mixture of pretentious mysticism lite
and the image-less horror of one-dimensional abstraction all tied up in
the sensation of pure hackney-dom.
Post by George Dance
nothing is changed, no, nothing is new
but a fresh breeze from the sea; and on the sea
another ship charts course, cutting
prow through breakers, churning
blades amid the foam, curling
sheets of white water
around the mewing gulls.
It's really quite empty isn't it? A badly done exercise in "poetic
contemplation" that is bereft of actual poetry, gutted of human
observation, and exiled to a black pit of sentimental noodle-work in
place of writing. A typical posterior production of yours.

dmh
msifg
2009-02-05 03:17:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Dance
Benediction
Nothing is changed by the rising sun
itself, yet darkness retreats;
That's a very bad enjambment, and a non-intriguing paradox: if "nothing is
changed" by the rising sun, then how can "darkness retreat" since that's a
change?
maybe he's just noticing it.


This isn't even to mention the utter flat dullness of
the opening two lines, which are really only informing us that sunrise
means less darkness. Not exactly a poetic revelation, or even a
particularly sharp observation. More along the lines of a massively stoned
dullard noticing they have five fingers on each hand.
more of your self-indulgent prose acting as criticism.
you really should get over yourself.
Post by George Dance
behind me, land skull-white to soon be green,
Awkward to a fault...
Post by George Dance
before, grey ocean to be vivid aqua,
These are stunningly dull sub-images, which keep reiterating the obvious -
that the sunrise (which supposedly changes nothing) adds color to the
things of darkness. It wasn't actually worth saying once, and you can't
stop saying it. Extremely boring stuff that, and none of it redeemed by a
clever bit of language, or a neatly-constructed image...
it works for a boring newsgroup where trolls and
cheap shot critics swoop down on a regular basis.
Post by George Dance
all of it now enlightened, all of it
particles in random chaos,
molecules in rigid stasis,
From the banal hammering home of a mediocre "idea" to flights of moronic
"scientific" abstraction. Hideous...
it might be combining the mysticism of the sacrament
with some of the scientific observations concerning
the sacrament. charles leadbeater's work comes to mind.
Post by George Dance
so much from void; my eyes the very same
giving it all the beauty,
my words the meaning,
my hearing all the song. I am
the hub, the fixed point,
the still point without which there is no dance
and there is always the dance,
motion and stillness ever entwined,
now illuminated. Yet
Really and truly horrible: an ugly mixture of pretentious mysticism lite
and the image-less horror of one-dimensional abstraction all tied up in
the sensation of pure hackney-dom.
not as boring as your disinterested prose that lacks
any kind of feeling and is chuck full of random meaningless
images that fall flat with every projection. your stuff
makes absolutely no sense. you're the last person that
should be grasping for meaning behind every corner.
Post by George Dance
nothing is changed, no, nothing is new
but a fresh breeze from the sea; and on the sea
another ship charts course, cutting
prow through breakers, churning
blades amid the foam, curling
sheets of white water
around the mewing gulls.
It's really quite empty isn't it? A badly done exercise in "poetic
contemplation" that is bereft of actual poetry, gutted of human
observation, and exiled to a black pit of sentimental noodle-work in place
of writing. A typical posterior production of yours.
dmh
it's ok.
it's not great.
however, we're all just having fun
while you keep firing your guns
like no other waste of time.

try finding the good in things once in awhile.
life is very short.
cynicism is your spiritual bane.
before you know it, you'll be standing on the
cusp of a brilliant idea and shooing it away
like so many butterflies you've swatted down.

lighten up.
Manwolf
2009-02-05 05:45:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by msifg
Post by George Dance
Benediction
Nothing is changed by the rising sun
itself, yet darkness retreats;
That's a very bad enjambment, and a non-intriguing paradox: if "nothing is
changed" by the rising sun, then how can "darkness retreat" since that's a
change?
maybe he's just noticing it.
This isn't even to mention the utter flat dullness of
the opening two lines, which are really only informing us that sunrise
means less darkness. Not exactly a poetic revelation, or even a
particularly sharp observation. More along the lines of a massively stoned
dullard noticing they have five fingers on each hand.
more of your self-indulgent prose acting as criticism.
you really should get over yourself.
Post by George Dance
behind me, land skull-white to soon be green,
Awkward to a fault...
Post by George Dance
before, grey ocean to be vivid aqua,
These are stunningly dull sub-images, which keep reiterating the obvious -
that the sunrise (which supposedly changes nothing) adds color to the
things of darkness. It wasn't actually worth saying once, and you can't
stop saying it. Extremely boring stuff that, and none of it redeemed by a
clever bit of language, or a neatly-constructed image...
it works for a boring newsgroup where trolls and
cheap shot critics swoop down on a regular basis.
Post by George Dance
all of it now enlightened, all of it
particles in random chaos,
molecules in rigid stasis,
From the banal hammering home of a mediocre "idea" to flights of moronic
"scientific" abstraction. Hideous...
it might be combining the mysticism of the sacrament
with some of the scientific observations concerning
the sacrament. charles leadbeater's work comes to mind.
Post by George Dance
so much from void; my eyes the very same
giving it all the beauty,
my words the meaning,
my hearing all the song. I am
the hub, the fixed point,
the still point without which there is no dance
and there is always the dance,
motion and stillness ever entwined,
now illuminated. Yet
Really and truly horrible: an ugly mixture of pretentious mysticism lite
and the image-less horror of one-dimensional abstraction all tied up in
the sensation of pure hackney-dom.
not as boring as your disinterested prose that lacks
any kind of feeling and is chuck full of random meaningless
images that fall flat with every projection. your stuff
makes absolutely no sense. you're the last person that
should be grasping for meaning behind every corner.
Post by George Dance
nothing is changed, no, nothing is new
but a fresh breeze from the sea; and on the sea
another ship charts course, cutting
prow through breakers, churning
blades amid the foam, curling
sheets of white water
around the mewing gulls.
It's really quite empty isn't it? A badly done exercise in "poetic
contemplation" that is bereft of actual poetry, gutted of human
observation, and exiled to a black pit of sentimental noodle-work in place
of writing. A typical posterior production of yours.
dmh
it's ok.
it's not great.
however, we're all just having fun
while you keep firing your guns
like no other waste of time.
try finding the good in things once in awhile.
life is very short.
cynicism is your spiritual bane.
before you know it, you'll be standing on the
cusp of a brilliant idea and shooing it away
like so many butterflies you've swatted down.
lighten up.
I'm just mad about Saffron

Saffron's mad about me

I'm just mad about Saffron

She's just mad about me



They call me mellow yellow

(Quite rightly)

They call me mellow yellow

(Quite rightly)

They call me mellow yellow



Born high forever to fly

Wind velocity nil

Wanna high forever to fly

If you want your cup our fill



(So mellow, he's so yellow)

Electrical banana

Is gonna be a sudden craze

Electrical banana

Is bound to be the very next phase

They call it mellow yellow

(Quite rightly)

They call me mellow yellow

(Quite rightly)

They call me mellow yellow
On The Highways and Bi-Ways God Built
2009-02-05 16:14:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by msifg
Post by Dale Houstman
It's really quite empty isn't it? A badly done exercise in "poetic
contemplation" that is bereft of actual poetry, gutted of human
observation, and exiled to a black pit of sentimental noodle-work in place
of writing. A typical posterior production of yours.
dmh
it's ok.
it's not great.
however, we're all just having fun
while you keep firing your guns
like no other waste of time.
try finding the good in things once in awhile.
life is very short.
cynicism is your spiritual bane.
before you know it, you'll be standing on the
cusp of a brilliant idea and shooing it away
like so many butterflies you've swatted down.
lighten up.
yeah, Dale! lighten up. so you can write shit as good as these guys!

i have to admit, this was one of the more amusing posts i've seen in a while.

lord...."cynicism is your spiritual bane." hahahahahahahaha

most sincerely,

GodBuilt
--
-----------------------------------------------
"I am a false prophet and God is a superstition.." "Again!"

There Will Be Blood
Dale Houstman
2009-02-06 01:58:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by On The Highways and Bi-Ways God Built
Post by msifg
Post by Dale Houstman
It's really quite empty isn't it? A badly done exercise in "poetic
contemplation" that is bereft of actual poetry, gutted of human
observation, and exiled to a black pit of sentimental noodle-work in place
of writing. A typical posterior production of yours.
dmh
it's ok.
it's not great.
however, we're all just having fun
while you keep firing your guns
like no other waste of time.
try finding the good in things once in awhile.
life is very short.
cynicism is your spiritual bane.
before you know it, you'll be standing on the
cusp of a brilliant idea and shooing it away
like so many butterflies you've swatted down.
lighten up.
yeah, Dale! lighten up. so you can write shit as good as these guys!
i have to admit, this was one of the more amusing posts i've seen in a while.
lord...."cynicism is your spiritual bane." hahahahahahahaha
most sincerely,
These folks have never understood what cynicism actually is - it is
cynical when one diminishes an entire discipline (such as poetry) to the
status of "mere hobby" or "fun" so as to allow for the products of
misery to be elevated to a place of emptied out "value". It is NOT
cynical to respect both an artform and another's work enough so as to
tell them when their work fails to achieve even the lowest rungs of the
aesthetic ladder. Telling someone they are doing just great when they
aren;t simply to sustain a false atmosphere of "fun" is sheer cynicism.

dmh
George Dance
2009-02-06 02:03:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dale Houstman
Post by On The Highways and Bi-Ways God Built
Post by msifg
Post by Dale Houstman
It's really quite empty isn't it? A badly done exercise in "poetic
contemplation" that is bereft of actual poetry, gutted of human
observation, and exiled to a black pit of sentimental noodle-work in place
of writing. A typical posterior production of yours.
dmh
it's ok.
it's not great.
however, we're all just having fun
while you keep firing your guns
like no other waste of time.
try finding the good in things once in awhile.
life is very short.
cynicism is your spiritual bane.
before you know it, you'll be standing on the
cusp of a brilliant idea and shooing it away
like so many butterflies you've swatted down.
lighten up.
yeah, Dale! lighten up. so you can write shit as good as these guys!
i have to admit, this was one of the more amusing posts i've seen in a while.
lord...."cynicism is your spiritual bane." hahahahahahahaha
most sincerely,
These folks have never understood what cynicism actually is - it is
cynical when one diminishes an entire discipline (such as poetry) to the
status of "mere hobby" or "fun" so as to allow for the products of
misery to be elevated to a place of emptied out "value". It is NOT
cynical to respect both an artform and another's work enough so as to
tell them when their work fails to achieve even the lowest rungs of the
aesthetic ladder. Telling someone they are doing just great when they
aren;t simply to sustain a false atmosphere of "fun" is sheer cynicism.
dmh
Who said that Benediction was "great"? I remember one "not great", but
no "great." That's definitely a crit I've gotta read!
Barbara's Cat
2009-02-05 16:42:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by msifg
Post by George Dance
Benediction
Nothing is changed by the rising sun
itself, yet darkness retreats;
That's a very bad enjambment, and a non-intriguing paradox: if "nothing is
changed" by the rising sun, then how can "darkness retreat" since that's a
change?
maybe he's just noticing it.
This isn't even to mention the utter flat dullness of
the opening two lines, which are really only informing us that sunrise
means less darkness. Not exactly a poetic revelation, or even a
particularly sharp observation. More along the lines of a massively stoned
dullard noticing they have five fingers on each hand.
more of your self-indulgent prose acting as criticism.
you really should get over yourself.
Post by George Dance
behind me, land skull-white to soon be green,
Awkward to a fault...
Post by George Dance
before, grey ocean to be vivid aqua,
These are stunningly dull sub-images, which keep reiterating the obvious -
that the sunrise (which supposedly changes nothing) adds color to the
things of darkness. It wasn't actually worth saying once, and you can't
stop saying it. Extremely boring stuff that, and none of it redeemed by a
clever bit of language, or a neatly-constructed image...
it works for a boring newsgroup where trolls and
cheap shot critics swoop down on a regular basis.
Post by George Dance
all of it now enlightened, all of it
particles in random chaos,
molecules in rigid stasis,
From the banal hammering home of a mediocre "idea" to flights of moronic
"scientific" abstraction. Hideous...
it might be combining the mysticism of the sacrament
with some of the scientific observations concerning
the sacrament. charles leadbeater's work comes to mind.
Post by George Dance
so much from void; my eyes the very same
giving it all the beauty,
my words the meaning,
my hearing all the song. I am
the hub, the fixed point,
the still point without which there is no dance
and there is always the dance,
motion and stillness ever entwined,
now illuminated. Yet
Really and truly horrible: an ugly mixture of pretentious mysticism lite
and the image-less horror of one-dimensional abstraction all tied up in
the sensation of pure hackney-dom.
not as boring as your disinterested prose that lacks
any kind of feeling and is chuck full of random meaningless
images that fall flat with every projection. your stuff
makes absolutely no sense. you're the last person that
should be grasping for meaning behind every corner.
Post by George Dance
nothing is changed, no, nothing is new
but a fresh breeze from the sea; and on the sea
another ship charts course, cutting
prow through breakers, churning
blades amid the foam, curling
sheets of white water
around the mewing gulls.
It's really quite empty isn't it? A badly done exercise in "poetic
contemplation" that is bereft of actual poetry, gutted of human
observation, and exiled to a black pit of sentimental noodle-work in place
of writing. A typical posterior production of yours.
dmh
it's ok.
it's not great.
however, we're all just having fun
while you keep firing your guns
like no other waste of time.
try finding the good in things once in awhile.
life is very short.
cynicism is your spiritual bane.
before you know it, you'll be standing on the
cusp of a brilliant idea and shooing it away
like so many butterflies you've swatted down.
lighten up.
Yes; Dale's honest critique was so damned uncalled for, eh, git?
--
Cm~

"Cynicism is an unpleasant way
of saying the truth."
- Lillian Hellman
Leisha
2009-02-05 20:21:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Barbara's Cat
Post by msifg
Post by George Dance
Benediction
Nothing is changed by the rising sun
itself, yet darkness retreats;
That's a very bad enjambment, and a non-intriguing paradox: if "nothing is
changed" by the rising sun, then how can "darkness retreat" since that's a
change?
maybe he's just noticing it.
This isn't even to mention the utter flat dullness of
the opening two lines, which are really only informing us that sunrise
means less darkness. Not exactly a poetic revelation, or even a
particularly sharp observation. More along the lines of a massively stoned
dullard noticing they have five fingers on each hand.
more of your self-indulgent prose acting as criticism.
you really should get over yourself.
Post by George Dance
behind me, land skull-white to soon be green,
Awkward to a fault...
Post by George Dance
before, grey ocean to be vivid aqua,
These are stunningly dull sub-images, which keep reiterating the obvious -
that the sunrise (which supposedly changes nothing) adds color to the
things of darkness. It wasn't actually worth saying once, and you can't
stop saying it. Extremely boring stuff that, and none of it redeemed by a
clever bit of language, or a neatly-constructed image...
it works for a boring newsgroup where trolls and
cheap shot critics swoop down on a regular basis.
Post by George Dance
all of it now enlightened, all of it
particles in random chaos,
molecules in rigid stasis,
From the banal hammering home of a mediocre "idea" to flights of moronic
"scientific" abstraction. Hideous...
it might be combining the mysticism of the sacrament
with some of the scientific observations concerning
the sacrament.  charles leadbeater's work comes to mind.
Post by George Dance
so much from void; my eyes the very same
giving it all the beauty,
my words the meaning,
my hearing all the song. I am
the hub, the fixed point,
the still point without which there is no dance
and there is always the dance,
motion and stillness ever entwined,
now illuminated. Yet
Really and truly horrible: an ugly mixture of pretentious mysticism lite
and the image-less horror of one-dimensional abstraction all tied up in
the sensation of pure hackney-dom.
not as boring as your disinterested prose that lacks
any kind of feeling and is chuck full of random meaningless
images that fall flat with every projection.  your stuff
makes absolutely no sense.  you're the last person that
should be grasping for meaning behind every corner.
Post by George Dance
nothing is changed, no, nothing is new
but a fresh breeze from the sea; and on the sea
another ship charts course, cutting
prow through breakers, churning
blades amid the  foam, curling
sheets of white water
around the mewing gulls.
It's really quite empty isn't it? A badly done exercise in "poetic
contemplation" that is bereft of actual poetry, gutted of human
observation, and exiled to a black pit of sentimental noodle-work in place
of writing. A typical posterior production of yours.
dmh
it's ok.
it's not great.
however, we're all just having fun
while you keep firing your guns
like no other waste of time.
try finding the good in things once in awhile.
life is very short.
cynicism is your spiritual bane.
before you know it, you'll be standing on the
cusp of a brilliant idea and shooing it away
like so many butterflies you've swatted down.
lighten up.
Yes; Dale's honest critique was so damned uncalled for, eh, git?
Uncalled for, or unculled for the advice it offers, despite its tone?

Leisha
Dale Houstman
2009-02-06 02:09:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Leisha
Uncalled for, or unculled for the advice it offers, despite its tone?
The tone was earned by George and his ilk over a good span of time - it
is what they have worked hardest at achieving, since they have
discovered they cannot achieve artistic beauty. If they were in the
least interested in perfecting even an anemic talent, I would be more
than happy (as I have shown) to lend assistance. They DON'T deserve the
advice, although I offer it. They DO deserve the tone, which they have
actively sought. Personally, the fact that I waste any time at all on
them and their "dribbles" should flatter them, but they think they have
both achieved a relatively high artistic plain and reduced poetry to
such non-value that their achievement was pointless. Given such a
schizoid approach, it is no wonder they do not have the capability of
absorbing criticism.

dmh
George Dance
2009-02-06 02:25:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dale Houstman
Post by Leisha
Uncalled for, or unculled for the advice it offers, despite its tone?
The tone was earned by George and his ilk over a good span of time - it
is what they have worked hardest at achieving, since they have
discovered they cannot achieve artistic beauty. If they were in the
least interested in perfecting even an anemic talent, I would be more
than happy (as I have shown) to lend assistance. They DON'T deserve the
advice, although I offer it. They DO deserve the tone, which they have
actively sought. Personally, the fact that I waste any time at all on
them and their "dribbles" should flatter them, but they think they have
both achieved a relatively high artistic plain and reduced poetry to
such non-value that their achievement was pointless. Given such a
schizoid approach, it is no wonder they do not have the capability of
absorbing criticism.
dmh
Well, sir; I am truly sorry that you found my reply to you nasty. I
hope that doesn't mean you're going to go back to calling me a
"retard," and asking known AUKtards to take punitive action against
me, again.
Manwolf
2009-02-06 04:50:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dale Houstman
Post by Leisha
Uncalled for, or unculled for the advice it offers, despite its tone?
The tone was earned by George and his ilk over a good span of time - it
is what they have worked hardest at achieving, since they have
discovered they cannot achieve artistic beauty. If they were in the
least interested in perfecting even an anemic talent, I would be more
than happy (as I have shown) to lend assistance. They DON'T deserve the
advice, although I offer it. They DO deserve the tone, which they have
actively sought. Personally, the fact that I waste any time at all on
them and their "dribbles" should flatter them, but they think they have
both achieved a relatively high artistic plain and reduced poetry to
such non-value that their achievement was pointless.
Obviously you think very highly of yourself.
Dale Houstman
2009-02-06 11:25:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Manwolf
Post by Dale Houstman
Post by Leisha
Uncalled for, or unculled for the advice it offers, despite its tone?
The tone was earned by George and his ilk over a good span of time -
it is what they have worked hardest at achieving, since they have
discovered they cannot achieve artistic beauty. If they were in the
least interested in perfecting even an anemic talent, I would be more
than happy (as I have shown) to lend assistance. They DON'T deserve
the advice, although I offer it. They DO deserve the tone, which they
have actively sought. Personally, the fact that I waste any time at
all on them and their "dribbles" should flatter them, but they think
they have both achieved a relatively high artistic plain and reduced
poetry to such non-value that their achievement was pointless.
Obviously you think very highly of yourself.
And you - I suppose - think you're a putz?

dmh
Rob Evans
2009-02-06 14:01:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dale Houstman
Post by Manwolf
Post by Dale Houstman
Post by Leisha
Uncalled for, or unculled for the advice it offers, despite its tone?
The tone was earned by George and his ilk over a good span of time - it
is what they have worked hardest at achieving, since they have
discovered they cannot achieve artistic beauty. If they were in the
least interested in perfecting even an anemic talent, I would be more
than happy (as I have shown) to lend assistance. They DON'T deserve the
advice, although I offer it. They DO deserve the tone, which they have
actively sought. Personally, the fact that I waste any time at all on
them and their "dribbles" should flatter them, but they think they have
both achieved a relatively high artistic plain and reduced poetry to
such non-value that their achievement was pointless.
Obviously you think very highly of yourself.
And you - I suppose - think you're a putz?
But he's "Manwolf". He prowls - proud and alone. It's just the rest of us
that get to suspect that he might be a putz, i.e "Manduckling".

Rob


--
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Rob Evans
2009-02-06 19:47:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rob Evans
Post by Dale Houstman
Post by Manwolf
Post by Dale Houstman
Post by Leisha
Uncalled for, or unculled for the advice it offers, despite its tone?
The tone was earned by George and his ilk over a good span of time -
it is what they have worked hardest at achieving, since they have
discovered they cannot achieve artistic beauty. If they were in the
least interested in perfecting even an anemic talent, I would be more
than happy (as I have shown) to lend assistance. They DON'T deserve
the advice, although I offer it. They DO deserve the tone, which they
have actively sought. Personally, the fact that I waste any time at
all on them and their "dribbles" should flatter them, but they think
they have both achieved a relatively high artistic plain and reduced
poetry to such non-value that their achievement was pointless.
Obviously you think very highly of yourself.
And you - I suppose - think you're a putz?
But he's "Manwolf". He prowls - proud and alone. It's just the rest of
us that get to suspect that he might be a putz, i.e "Manduckling".
Wow, that's about the stupidest thing ever. Thanks for sharing.
My pleasure and congratulations on recognising your stupid behaviour.

Less quacks and less ridiculous pseudonym are the next steps to total
recovery.

Rob
--
Rob Evans
-----------
When I see a swine,
I reach for 45-calibre pearls



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Manwolf
2009-02-06 18:05:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rob Evans
Post by Dale Houstman
Post by Manwolf
Post by Dale Houstman
Post by Leisha
Uncalled for, or unculled for the advice it offers, despite its tone?
The tone was earned by George and his ilk over a good span of time -
it is what they have worked hardest at achieving, since they have
discovered they cannot achieve artistic beauty. If they were in the
least interested in perfecting even an anemic talent, I would be
more than happy (as I have shown) to lend assistance. They DON'T
deserve the advice, although I offer it. They DO deserve the tone,
which they have actively sought. Personally, the fact that I waste
any time at all on them and their "dribbles" should flatter them,
but they think they have both achieved a relatively high artistic
plain and reduced poetry to such non-value that their achievement
was pointless.
Obviously you think very highly of yourself.
And you - I suppose - think you're a putz?
But he's "Manwolf". He prowls - proud and alone. It's just the rest of
us that get to suspect that he might be a putz, i.e "Manduckling".
Wow, that's about the stupidest thing ever. Thanks for sharing.
George Dance
2009-02-06 15:02:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dale Houstman
Post by Manwolf
Post by Dale Houstman
Post by Leisha
Uncalled for, or unculled for the advice it offers, despite its tone?
The tone was earned by George and his ilk over a good span of time -
it is what they have worked hardest at achieving, since they have
discovered they cannot achieve artistic beauty. If they were in the
least interested in perfecting even an anemic talent, I would be more
than happy (as I have shown) to lend assistance. They DON'T deserve
the advice, although I offer it. They DO deserve the tone, which they
have actively sought. Personally, the fact that I waste any time at
all on them and their "dribbles" should flatter them, but they think
they have both achieved a relatively high artistic plain and reduced
poetry to such non-value that their achievement was pointless.
Obviously you think very highly of yourself.
And you - I suppose - think you're a putz?
dmh
Not exactly, but I haven't noticed him throwing hissies at everyone
who doesn't have as high an opinion of him as he does.
Manwolf
2009-02-06 18:12:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Dance
Post by Dale Houstman
Post by Manwolf
Post by Dale Houstman
Post by Leisha
Uncalled for, or unculled for the advice it offers, despite its tone?
The tone was earned by George and his ilk over a good span of time -
it is what they have worked hardest at achieving, since they have
discovered they cannot achieve artistic beauty. If they were in the
least interested in perfecting even an anemic talent, I would be more
than happy (as I have shown) to lend assistance. They DON'T deserve
the advice, although I offer it. They DO deserve the tone, which they
have actively sought. Personally, the fact that I waste any time at
all on them and their "dribbles" should flatter them, but they think
they have both achieved a relatively high artistic plain and reduced
poetry to such non-value that their achievement was pointless.
Obviously you think very highly of yourself.
And you - I suppose - think you're a putz?
dmh
Not exactly, but I haven't noticed him throwing hissies at everyone
who doesn't have as high an opinion of him as he does.
Yes, and I notice he treats just about everyone else like complete
morons except those that highly praise his poetry, which unfortunately
tend to be rather complete morons like JR and BC.
Manwolf
2009-02-06 18:04:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dale Houstman
Post by Manwolf
Post by Dale Houstman
Post by Leisha
Uncalled for, or unculled for the advice it offers, despite its tone?
The tone was earned by George and his ilk over a good span of time -
it is what they have worked hardest at achieving, since they have
discovered they cannot achieve artistic beauty. If they were in the
least interested in perfecting even an anemic talent, I would be more
than happy (as I have shown) to lend assistance. They DON'T deserve
the advice, although I offer it. They DO deserve the tone, which they
have actively sought. Personally, the fact that I waste any time at
all on them and their "dribbles" should flatter them, but they think
they have both achieved a relatively high artistic plain and reduced
poetry to such non-value that their achievement was pointless.
Obviously you think very highly of yourself.
And you - I suppose - think you're a putz?
Of course not, but I don't deceive myself into thinking that whensoever
I share comments on others poetry in this newsgroup it is a gracious
act, or that they should be flattered by my attention, either.

Really, these individuals you mention have worked hardest at achieving
YOUR scorn because they are incapable of REAL beauty? How quaint.
George Dance
2009-02-06 01:43:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by msifg
Post by George Dance
Benediction
Nothing is changed by the rising sun
itself, yet darkness retreats;
That's a very bad enjambment, and a non-intriguing paradox: if "nothing is
changed" by the rising sun, then how can "darkness retreat" since that's a
change?
maybe he's just noticing it.
This isn't even to mention the utter flat dullness of
the opening two lines, which are really only informing us that sunrise
means less darkness. Not exactly a poetic revelation, or even a
particularly sharp observation. More along the lines of a massively stoned
dullard noticing they have five fingers on each hand.
more of your self-indulgent prose acting as criticism.
you really should get over yourself.
Post by George Dance
behind me, land skull-white to soon be green,
Awkward to a fault...
Post by George Dance
before, grey ocean to be vivid aqua,
These are stunningly dull sub-images, which keep reiterating the obvious -
that the sunrise (which supposedly changes nothing) adds color to the
things of darkness. It wasn't actually worth saying once, and you can't
stop saying it. Extremely boring stuff that, and none of it redeemed by a
clever bit of language, or a neatly-constructed image...
it works for a boring newsgroup where trolls and
cheap shot critics swoop down on a regular basis.
Post by George Dance
all of it now enlightened, all of it
particles in random chaos,
molecules in rigid stasis,
From the banal hammering home of a mediocre "idea" to flights of moronic
"scientific" abstraction. Hideous...
it might be combining the mysticism of the sacrament
with some of the scientific observations concerning
the sacrament.  charles leadbeater's work comes to mind.
Post by George Dance
so much from void; my eyes the very same
giving it all the beauty,
my words the meaning,
my hearing all the song. I am
the hub, the fixed point,
the still point without which there is no dance
and there is always the dance,
motion and stillness ever entwined,
now illuminated. Yet
Really and truly horrible: an ugly mixture of pretentious mysticism lite
and the image-less horror of one-dimensional abstraction all tied up in
the sensation of pure hackney-dom.
not as boring as your disinterested prose that lacks
any kind of feeling and is chuck full of random meaningless
images that fall flat with every projection.  your stuff
makes absolutely no sense.  you're the last person that
should be grasping for meaning behind every corner.
Post by George Dance
nothing is changed, no, nothing is new
but a fresh breeze from the sea; and on the sea
another ship charts course, cutting
prow through breakers, churning
blades amid the  foam, curling
sheets of white water
around the mewing gulls.
It's really quite empty isn't it? A badly done exercise in "poetic
contemplation" that is bereft of actual poetry, gutted of human
observation, and exiled to a black pit of sentimental noodle-work in place
of writing. A typical posterior production of yours.
dmh
it's ok.
it's not great.
however, we're all just having fun
while you keep firing your guns
like no other waste of time.
try finding the good in things once in awhile.
life is very short.
cynicism is your spiritual bane.
before you know it, you'll be standing on the
cusp of a brilliant idea and shooing it away
like so many butterflies you've swatted down.
lighten up.
Yes; Dale's nasty critique was so damned uncalled for, eh, git?
Not uncalled for at all. Maybe you missed the "c&c"; or didn't know
what it meant.
--
Cm~
"Honesty" is an pleasant way
 of saying "trolling".
           
Leisha
2009-02-05 20:17:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by msifg
Post by George Dance
Benediction
Nothing is changed by the rising sun
itself, yet darkness retreats;
That's a very bad enjambment, and a non-intriguing paradox: if "nothing is
changed" by the rising sun, then how can "darkness retreat" since that's a
change?
maybe he's just noticing it.
This isn't even to mention the utter flat dullness of
the opening two lines, which are really only informing us that sunrise
means less darkness. Not exactly a poetic revelation, or even a
particularly sharp observation. More along the lines of a massively stoned
dullard noticing they have five fingers on each hand.
more of your self-indulgent prose acting as criticism.
you really should get over yourself.
Post by George Dance
behind me, land skull-white to soon be green,
Awkward to a fault...
Post by George Dance
before, grey ocean to be vivid aqua,
These are stunningly dull sub-images, which keep reiterating the obvious -
that the sunrise (which supposedly changes nothing) adds color to the
things of darkness. It wasn't actually worth saying once, and you can't
stop saying it. Extremely boring stuff that, and none of it redeemed by a
clever bit of language, or a neatly-constructed image...
it works for a boring newsgroup where trolls and
cheap shot critics swoop down on a regular basis.
Post by George Dance
all of it now enlightened, all of it
particles in random chaos,
molecules in rigid stasis,
From the banal hammering home of a mediocre "idea" to flights of moronic
"scientific" abstraction. Hideous...
it might be combining the mysticism of the sacrament
with some of the scientific observations concerning
the sacrament.  charles leadbeater's work comes to mind.
Post by George Dance
so much from void; my eyes the very same
giving it all the beauty,
my words the meaning,
my hearing all the song. I am
the hub, the fixed point,
the still point without which there is no dance
and there is always the dance,
motion and stillness ever entwined,
now illuminated. Yet
Really and truly horrible: an ugly mixture of pretentious mysticism lite
and the image-less horror of one-dimensional abstraction all tied up in
the sensation of pure hackney-dom.
not as boring as your disinterested prose that lacks
any kind of feeling and is chuck full of random meaningless
images that fall flat with every projection.  your stuff
makes absolutely no sense.  you're the last person that
should be grasping for meaning behind every corner.
Post by George Dance
nothing is changed, no, nothing is new
but a fresh breeze from the sea; and on the sea
another ship charts course, cutting
prow through breakers, churning
blades amid the  foam, curling
sheets of white water
around the mewing gulls.
It's really quite empty isn't it? A badly done exercise in "poetic
contemplation" that is bereft of actual poetry, gutted of human
observation, and exiled to a black pit of sentimental noodle-work in place
of writing. A typical posterior production of yours.
dmh
it's ok.
it's not great.
however, we're all just having fun
while you keep firing your guns
like no other waste of time.
try finding the good in things once in awhile.
life is very short.
cynicism is your spiritual bane.
before you know it, you'll be standing on the
cusp of a brilliant idea and shooing it away
like so many butterflies you've swatted down.
George Dance the butterfly! Sounds poetically promising.

Leisha
George Dance
2009-02-06 01:58:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by msifg
Post by George Dance
Benediction
Nothing is changed by the rising sun
itself, yet darkness retreats;
That's a very bad enjambment, and a non-intriguing paradox: if "nothing is
changed" by the rising sun, then how can "darkness retreat" since that's a
change?
maybe he's just noticing it.
This isn't even to mention the utter flat dullness of
the opening two lines, which are really only informing us that sunrise
means less darkness. Not exactly a poetic revelation, or even a
particularly sharp observation. More along the lines of a massively stoned
dullard noticing they have five fingers on each hand.
more of your self-indulgent prose acting as criticism.
you really should get over yourself.
Post by George Dance
behind me, land skull-white to soon be green,
Awkward to a fault...
Post by George Dance
before, grey ocean to be vivid aqua,
These are stunningly dull sub-images, which keep reiterating the obvious -
that the sunrise (which supposedly changes nothing) adds color to the
things of darkness. It wasn't actually worth saying once, and you can't
stop saying it. Extremely boring stuff that, and none of it redeemed by a
clever bit of language, or a neatly-constructed image...
it works for a boring newsgroup where trolls and
cheap shot critics swoop down on a regular basis.
Post by George Dance
all of it now enlightened, all of it
particles in random chaos,
molecules in rigid stasis,
From the banal hammering home of a mediocre "idea" to flights of moronic
"scientific" abstraction. Hideous...
it might be combining the mysticism of the sacrament
with some of the scientific observations concerning
the sacrament.  charles leadbeater's work comes to mind.
Post by George Dance
so much from void; my eyes the very same
giving it all the beauty,
my words the meaning,
my hearing all the song. I am
the hub, the fixed point,
the still point without which there is no dance
and there is always the dance,
motion and stillness ever entwined,
now illuminated. Yet
Really and truly horrible: an ugly mixture of pretentious mysticism lite
and the image-less horror of one-dimensional abstraction all tied up in
the sensation of pure hackney-dom.
not as boring as your disinterested prose that lacks
any kind of feeling and is chuck full of random meaningless
images that fall flat with every projection.  your stuff
makes absolutely no sense.  you're the last person that
should be grasping for meaning behind every corner.
Post by George Dance
nothing is changed, no, nothing is new
but a fresh breeze from the sea; and on the sea
another ship charts course, cutting
prow through breakers, churning
blades amid the  foam, curling
sheets of white water
around the mewing gulls.
It's really quite empty isn't it? A badly done exercise in "poetic
contemplation" that is bereft of actual poetry, gutted of human
observation, and exiled to a black pit of sentimental noodle-work in place
of writing. A typical posterior production of yours.
dmh
it's ok.
it's not great.
Thanks. "ok" tells me I've still got more work to do on it.
Post by msifg
however, we're all just having fun
while you keep firing your guns
like no other waste of time.
Well, Dale was having fun, in his own way, too. 8)


And his critique was helpful.
Post by msifg
try finding the good in things once in awhile.
So I keep telling him: that works so much better, given the fact
humans have egos. I try to put mine aside when reading crits, but I
can't pretend I was indifferent between Dale's crit and Leisha's.
Post by msifg
life is very short.
cynicism is your spiritual bane.
before you know it, you'll be standing on the
cusp of a brilliant idea and shooing it away
like so many butterflies you've swatted down.
lighten up.
Dale Houstman
2009-02-06 11:37:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Dance
Post by msifg
Post by George Dance
Benediction
Nothing is changed by the rising sun
itself, yet darkness retreats;
That's a very bad enjambment, and a non-intriguing paradox: if "nothing is
changed" by the rising sun, then how can "darkness retreat" since that's a
change?
maybe he's just noticing it.
This isn't even to mention the utter flat dullness of
the opening two lines, which are really only informing us that sunrise
means less darkness. Not exactly a poetic revelation, or even a
particularly sharp observation. More along the lines of a massively stoned
dullard noticing they have five fingers on each hand.
more of your self-indulgent prose acting as criticism.
you really should get over yourself.
Post by George Dance
behind me, land skull-white to soon be green,
Awkward to a fault...
Post by George Dance
before, grey ocean to be vivid aqua,
These are stunningly dull sub-images, which keep reiterating the obvious -
that the sunrise (which supposedly changes nothing) adds color to the
things of darkness. It wasn't actually worth saying once, and you can't
stop saying it. Extremely boring stuff that, and none of it redeemed by a
clever bit of language, or a neatly-constructed image...
it works for a boring newsgroup where trolls and
cheap shot critics swoop down on a regular basis.
Post by George Dance
all of it now enlightened, all of it
particles in random chaos,
molecules in rigid stasis,
From the banal hammering home of a mediocre "idea" to flights of moronic
"scientific" abstraction. Hideous...
it might be combining the mysticism of the sacrament
with some of the scientific observations concerning
the sacrament. charles leadbeater's work comes to mind.
Post by George Dance
so much from void; my eyes the very same
giving it all the beauty,
my words the meaning,
my hearing all the song. I am
the hub, the fixed point,
the still point without which there is no dance
and there is always the dance,
motion and stillness ever entwined,
now illuminated. Yet
Really and truly horrible: an ugly mixture of pretentious mysticism lite
and the image-less horror of one-dimensional abstraction all tied up in
the sensation of pure hackney-dom.
not as boring as your disinterested prose that lacks
any kind of feeling and is chuck full of random meaningless
images that fall flat with every projection. your stuff
makes absolutely no sense. you're the last person that
should be grasping for meaning behind every corner.
Post by George Dance
nothing is changed, no, nothing is new
but a fresh breeze from the sea; and on the sea
another ship charts course, cutting
prow through breakers, churning
blades amid the foam, curling
sheets of white water
around the mewing gulls.
It's really quite empty isn't it? A badly done exercise in "poetic
contemplation" that is bereft of actual poetry, gutted of human
observation, and exiled to a black pit of sentimental noodle-work in place
of writing. A typical posterior production of yours.
dmh
it's ok.
it's not great.
Thanks. "ok" tells me I've still got more work to do on it.
Post by msifg
however, we're all just having fun
while you keep firing your guns
like no other waste of time.
Well, Dale was having fun, in his own way, too. 8)
And his critique was helpful.
Post by msifg
try finding the good in things once in awhile.
So I keep telling him: that works so much better, given the fact
humans have egos. I try to put mine aside when reading crits, but I
can't pretend I was indifferent between Dale's crit and Leisha's.
Of course not - she either pretended to find merit in your work, or she
actually was unskilled enough to think that it was merely a slightly
flawed poem rather than not a poem at all. So you gravitate toward those
who shine the most light on you. Not really a revelation, like your "poem".

First off - the lie you keep promulgating - that I NEVER offer positive
comments. Simply not the truth - when a person posts a poem which owns
qualities of value - despite the possible failure of the poem as a whole
- AND they seem open to hearing and benefiting from not ONLY the "I like
your poem" comments, I go to great lengths to offer useful advice. You
fail on both accounts again and again: you do not offer up a poem with
any discernible merit, and you respond badly to posts that do not accept
the premise that you are a poet: the "negativity" you notice is actually
your own creation. You show ANY tendency to learn from criticism, and
from your own reading, and to start producing pieces with any value, and
you will hear positive comments from me. Until then, my merely
"pretending" to discover little pearls in your barnacles will do neither
of us any good, and - in fact - would be cynical. I'll leave the
cynicism to you.

dmh
George Dance
2009-02-06 15:56:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dale Houstman
Post by George Dance
Post by msifg
Post by George Dance
Benediction
Nothing is changed by the rising sun
itself, yet darkness retreats;
That's a very bad enjambment, and a non-intriguing paradox: if "nothing is
changed" by the rising sun, then how can "darkness retreat" since that's a
change?
maybe he's just noticing it.
This isn't even to mention the utter flat dullness of
the opening two lines, which are really only informing us that sunrise
means less darkness. Not exactly a poetic revelation, or even a
particularly sharp observation. More along the lines of a massively stoned
dullard noticing they have five fingers on each hand.
more of your self-indulgent prose acting as criticism.
you really should get over yourself.
Post by George Dance
behind me, land skull-white to soon be green,
Awkward to a fault...
Post by George Dance
before, grey ocean to be vivid aqua,
These are stunningly dull sub-images, which keep reiterating the obvious -
that the sunrise (which supposedly changes nothing) adds color to the
things of darkness. It wasn't actually worth saying once, and you can't
stop saying it. Extremely boring stuff that, and none of it redeemed by a
clever bit of language, or a neatly-constructed image...
it works for a boring newsgroup where trolls and
cheap shot critics swoop down on a regular basis.
Post by George Dance
all of it now enlightened, all of it
particles in random chaos,
molecules in rigid stasis,
From the banal hammering home of a mediocre "idea" to flights of moronic
"scientific" abstraction. Hideous...
it might be combining the mysticism of the sacrament
with some of the scientific observations concerning
the sacrament.  charles leadbeater's work comes to mind.
Post by George Dance
so much from void; my eyes the very same
giving it all the beauty,
my words the meaning,
my hearing all the song. I am
the hub, the fixed point,
the still point without which there is no dance
and there is always the dance,
motion and stillness ever entwined,
now illuminated. Yet
Really and truly horrible: an ugly mixture of pretentious mysticism lite
and the image-less horror of one-dimensional abstraction all tied up in
the sensation of pure hackney-dom.
not as boring as your disinterested prose that lacks
any kind of feeling and is chuck full of random meaningless
images that fall flat with every projection.  your stuff
makes absolutely no sense.  you're the last person that
should be grasping for meaning behind every corner.
Post by George Dance
nothing is changed, no, nothing is new
but a fresh breeze from the sea; and on the sea
another ship charts course, cutting
prow through breakers, churning
blades amid the  foam, curling
sheets of white water
around the mewing gulls.
It's really quite empty isn't it? A badly done exercise in "poetic
contemplation" that is bereft of actual poetry, gutted of human
observation, and exiled to a black pit of sentimental noodle-work in place
of writing. A typical posterior production of yours.
dmh
it's ok.
it's not great.
Thanks. "ok" tells me I've still got more work to do on it.
Post by msifg
however, we're all just having fun
while you keep firing your guns
like no other waste of time.
Well, Dale was having fun, in his own way, too. 8)
And his critique was helpful.
Post by msifg
try finding the good in things once in awhile.
So I keep telling him: that works so much better, given the fact
humans have egos. I try to put mine aside when reading crits, but I
can't pretend I was indifferent between Dale's crit and Leisha's.
Of course not - she either pretended to find merit in your work, or she
actually was unskilled enough to think that it was merely a slightly
flawed poem rather than not a poem at all. So you gravitate toward those
who shine the most light on you. Not really a revelation, like your "poem".
First off - the lie you keep promulgating - that I NEVER offer positive
comments.
I don't remember "promulgating" that assertion once, never mind
repeatedly.
Post by Dale Houstman
Simply not the truth - when a person posts a poem which owns
qualities of value - despite the possible failure of the poem as a whole
- AND they seem open to hearing and benefiting from not ONLY the "I like
your poem" comments, I go to great lengths to offer useful advice.
And where the hell am I supposed to have said that I want ONLY "I like
your poem" comments?
Post by Dale Houstman
You
fail on both accounts again and again: you do not offer up a poem with
any discernible merit, and you respond badly to posts that do not accept
the premise that you are a poet
Oh, for fuck's sake; I've never claimed to be a "poet," or a "real
poet," or anything like. Too much of that goes on here already without
me joining in. If you want to write me about it, at length, go ahead;
but don't expect me to enjoy reading it, or pretend I do; and don't
expect me to care whether you enjoy how I respond to it.
Post by Dale Houstman
: the "negativity" you notice is actually
your own creation. You show ANY tendency to learn from criticism, and
from your own reading, and to start producing pieces with any value, and
you will hear positive comments from me.
As I've said, I read your crits and I sometimes find useful things in
them; that won't change whether they're positive or negative. I
probably would enjoy reading more positive ones; but it's not
something I lose any sleep over or anything.
Post by Dale Houstman
Until then, my merely
"pretending" to discover little pearls in your barnacles will do neither
of us any good
No one asked you to "pretend" to do anything. Nor, to my knowledge,
has anyone asked anyone to "pretend" to do anything. So I have to
ask ... just what are you talking about?
Post by Dale Houstman
, and - in fact - would be cynical. I'll leave the
cynicism to you.
dmh
msifg
2009-02-06 16:25:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dale Houstman
Post by George Dance
Post by msifg
Post by George Dance
Benediction
Nothing is changed by the rising sun
itself, yet darkness retreats;
That's a very bad enjambment, and a non-intriguing paradox: if "nothing is
changed" by the rising sun, then how can "darkness retreat" since that's a
change?
maybe he's just noticing it.
This isn't even to mention the utter flat dullness of
the opening two lines, which are really only informing us that sunrise
means less darkness. Not exactly a poetic revelation, or even a
particularly sharp observation. More along the lines of a massively stoned
dullard noticing they have five fingers on each hand.
more of your self-indulgent prose acting as criticism.
you really should get over yourself.
Post by George Dance
behind me, land skull-white to soon be green,
Awkward to a fault...
Post by George Dance
before, grey ocean to be vivid aqua,
These are stunningly dull sub-images, which keep reiterating the obvious -
that the sunrise (which supposedly changes nothing) adds color to the
things of darkness. It wasn't actually worth saying once, and you can't
stop saying it. Extremely boring stuff that, and none of it redeemed by a
clever bit of language, or a neatly-constructed image...
it works for a boring newsgroup where trolls and
cheap shot critics swoop down on a regular basis.
Post by George Dance
all of it now enlightened, all of it
particles in random chaos,
molecules in rigid stasis,
From the banal hammering home of a mediocre "idea" to flights of moronic
"scientific" abstraction. Hideous...
it might be combining the mysticism of the sacrament
with some of the scientific observations concerning
the sacrament. charles leadbeater's work comes to mind.
Post by George Dance
so much from void; my eyes the very same
giving it all the beauty,
my words the meaning,
my hearing all the song. I am
the hub, the fixed point,
the still point without which there is no dance
and there is always the dance,
motion and stillness ever entwined,
now illuminated. Yet
Really and truly horrible: an ugly mixture of pretentious mysticism lite
and the image-less horror of one-dimensional abstraction all tied up in
the sensation of pure hackney-dom.
not as boring as your disinterested prose that lacks
any kind of feeling and is chuck full of random meaningless
images that fall flat with every projection. your stuff
makes absolutely no sense. you're the last person that
should be grasping for meaning behind every corner.
Post by George Dance
nothing is changed, no, nothing is new
but a fresh breeze from the sea; and on the sea
another ship charts course, cutting
prow through breakers, churning
blades amid the foam, curling
sheets of white water
around the mewing gulls.
It's really quite empty isn't it? A badly done exercise in "poetic
contemplation" that is bereft of actual poetry, gutted of human
observation, and exiled to a black pit of sentimental noodle-work in place
of writing. A typical posterior production of yours.
dmh
it's ok.
it's not great.
Thanks. "ok" tells me I've still got more work to do on it.
Post by msifg
however, we're all just having fun
while you keep firing your guns
like no other waste of time.
Well, Dale was having fun, in his own way, too. 8)
And his critique was helpful.
Post by msifg
try finding the good in things once in awhile.
So I keep telling him: that works so much better, given the fact
humans have egos. I try to put mine aside when reading crits, but I
can't pretend I was indifferent between Dale's crit and Leisha's.
Of course not - she either pretended to find merit in your work, or she
actually was unskilled enough to think that it was merely a slightly
flawed poem rather than not a poem at all. So you gravitate toward those
who shine the most light on you. Not really a revelation, like your "poem".
First off - the lie you keep promulgating - that I NEVER offer positive
comments.
I don't remember "promulgating" that assertion once, never mind
repeatedly.
Post by Dale Houstman
Simply not the truth - when a person posts a poem which owns
qualities of value - despite the possible failure of the poem as a whole
- AND they seem open to hearing and benefiting from not ONLY the "I like
your poem" comments, I go to great lengths to offer useful advice.
And where the hell am I supposed to have said that I want ONLY "I like
your poem" comments?
Post by Dale Houstman
You
fail on both accounts again and again: you do not offer up a poem with
any discernible merit, and you respond badly to posts that do not accept
the premise that you are a poet
Oh, for fuck's sake; I've never claimed to be a "poet," or a "real
poet," or anything like. Too much of that goes on here already without
me joining in. If you want to write me about it, at length, go ahead;
but don't expect me to enjoy reading it, or pretend I do; and don't
expect me to care whether you enjoy how I respond to it.
Post by Dale Houstman
: the "negativity" you notice is actually
your own creation. You show ANY tendency to learn from criticism, and
from your own reading, and to start producing pieces with any value, and
you will hear positive comments from me.
As I've said, I read your crits and I sometimes find useful things in
them; that won't change whether they're positive or negative. I
probably would enjoy reading more positive ones; but it's not
something I lose any sleep over or anything.
Post by Dale Houstman
Until then, my merely
"pretending" to discover little pearls in your barnacles will do neither
of us any good
No one asked you to "pretend" to do anything. Nor, to my knowledge,
has anyone asked anyone to "pretend" to do anything. So I have to
ask ... just what are you talking about?
Post by Dale Houstman
, and - in fact - would be cynical. I'll leave the
cynicism to you.
dmh
*i think that was mostly directed at me.

he's not addressing me in person because he
thinks i'm dead.

well-
i am.
and i'm really pissed off.
George Dance
2009-02-07 18:21:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Dance
Post by Dale Houstman
Post by George Dance
Post by msifg
however, we're all just having fun
while you keep firing your guns
like no other waste of time.
Well, Dale was having fun, in his own way, too. 8)
And his critique was helpful.
Post by msifg
try finding the good in things once in awhile.
So I keep telling him: that works so much better, given the fact
humans have egos. I try to put mine aside when reading crits, but I
can't pretend I was indifferent between Dale's crit and Leisha's.
Of course not - she either pretended to find merit in your work, or she
actually was unskilled enough to think that it was merely a slightly
flawed poem rather than not a poem at all. So you gravitate toward those
who shine the most light on you. Not really a revelation, like your "poem".
First off - the lie you keep promulgating - that I NEVER offer positive
comments.
I don't remember "promulgating" that assertion once, never mind
repeatedly.
Post by Dale Houstman
Simply not the truth - when a person posts a poem which owns
qualities of value - despite the possible failure of the poem as a whole
- AND they seem open to hearing and benefiting from not ONLY the "I like
your poem" comments, I go to great lengths to offer useful advice.
And where the hell am I supposed to have said that I want ONLY "I like
your poem" comments?
Post by Dale Houstman
You
fail on both accounts again and again: you do not offer up a poem with
any discernible merit, and you respond badly to posts that do not accept
the premise that you are a poet
Oh, for fuck's sake; I've never claimed to be a "poet," or a "real
poet," or anything like. Too much of that goes on here already without
me joining in. If you want to write me about it, at length, go ahead;
but don't expect me to enjoy reading it, or pretend I do; and don't
expect me to care whether you enjoy how I respond to it.
Post by Dale Houstman
: the "negativity" you notice is actually
your own creation. You show ANY tendency to learn from criticism, and
from your own reading, and to start producing pieces with any value, and
you will hear positive comments from me.
As I've said, I read your crits and I sometimes find useful things in
them; that won't change whether they're positive or negative. I
probably would enjoy reading more positive ones; but it's not
something I lose any sleep over or anything.
Post by Dale Houstman
Until then, my merely
"pretending" to discover little pearls in your barnacles will do neither
of us any good
No one asked you to "pretend" to do anything. Nor, to my knowledge,
has anyone asked anyone to "pretend" to do anything. So I have to
ask ... just what are you talking about?
Post by Dale Houstman
, and - in fact - would be cynical. I'll leave the
cynicism to you.
dmh
*i think that was mostly directed at me.
he's not addressing me in person because he
thinks i'm dead.
Maybe; or maybe he’s pretending you and I are the same person. I
noticed ggamble doing just that today, so I see some likelihood that’s
the case. I wish I knew exactly what they were up to.
Post by George Dance
well-
i am.
and i'm really pissed off.
I don't think you'd be human if Dale or ggamble didn't piss you off
sometimes -- after all, it looks like a good part of what they want to
do. The problem is getting stuck in that mode, and staying pissed off;
that's a sure way to wash out as a creative force and end up like
Jinn, or "chuckles," or any of a number of their past targets.
msifg
2009-02-08 01:17:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Dance
Post by Dale Houstman
Post by George Dance
Post by msifg
however, we're all just having fun
while you keep firing your guns
like no other waste of time.
Well, Dale was having fun, in his own way, too. 8)
And his critique was helpful.
Post by msifg
try finding the good in things once in awhile.
So I keep telling him: that works so much better, given the fact
humans have egos. I try to put mine aside when reading crits, but I
can't pretend I was indifferent between Dale's crit and Leisha's.
Of course not - she either pretended to find merit in your work, or she
actually was unskilled enough to think that it was merely a slightly
flawed poem rather than not a poem at all. So you gravitate toward those
who shine the most light on you. Not really a revelation, like your "poem".
First off - the lie you keep promulgating - that I NEVER offer positive
comments.
I don't remember "promulgating" that assertion once, never mind
repeatedly.
Post by Dale Houstman
Simply not the truth - when a person posts a poem which owns
qualities of value - despite the possible failure of the poem as a whole
- AND they seem open to hearing and benefiting from not ONLY the "I like
your poem" comments, I go to great lengths to offer useful advice.
And where the hell am I supposed to have said that I want ONLY "I like
your poem" comments?
Post by Dale Houstman
You
fail on both accounts again and again: you do not offer up a poem with
any discernible merit, and you respond badly to posts that do not accept
the premise that you are a poet
Oh, for fuck's sake; I've never claimed to be a "poet," or a "real
poet," or anything like. Too much of that goes on here already without
me joining in. If you want to write me about it, at length, go ahead;
but don't expect me to enjoy reading it, or pretend I do; and don't
expect me to care whether you enjoy how I respond to it.
Post by Dale Houstman
: the "negativity" you notice is actually
your own creation. You show ANY tendency to learn from criticism, and
from your own reading, and to start producing pieces with any value, and
you will hear positive comments from me.
As I've said, I read your crits and I sometimes find useful things in
them; that won't change whether they're positive or negative. I
probably would enjoy reading more positive ones; but it's not
something I lose any sleep over or anything.
Post by Dale Houstman
Until then, my merely
"pretending" to discover little pearls in your barnacles will do neither
of us any good
No one asked you to "pretend" to do anything. Nor, to my knowledge,
has anyone asked anyone to "pretend" to do anything. So I have to
ask ... just what are you talking about?
Post by Dale Houstman
, and - in fact - would be cynical. I'll leave the
cynicism to you.
dmh
*i think that was mostly directed at me.
he's not addressing me in person because he
thinks i'm dead.
Maybe; or maybe he’s pretending you and I are the same person. I
noticed ggamble doing just that today, so I see some likelihood that’s
the case. I wish I knew exactly what they were up to.
Post by George Dance
well-
i am.
and i'm really pissed off.
I don't think you'd be human if Dale or ggamble didn't piss you off
sometimes -- after all, it looks like a good part of what they want to
do. The problem is getting stuck in that mode, and staying pissed off;
that's a sure way to wash out as a creative force and end up like
Jinn, or "chuckles," or any of a number of their past targets.



*excellent point.
Rob Evans
2009-02-05 20:03:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Dance
Benediction
Nothing is changed by the rising sun
itself, yet darkness retreats;
That's a very bad enjambment, and a non-intriguing paradox: if "nothing is
changed" by the rising sun, then how can "darkness retreat" since that's a
change? This isn't even to mention the utter flat dullness of the opening
two lines, which are really only informing us that sunrise means less
darkness. Not exactly a poetic revelation, or even a particularly sharp
observation. More along the lines of a massively stoned dullard noticing
they have five fingers on each hand.
Post by George Dance
behind me, land skull-white to soon be green,
Awkward to a fault...
God, you're SO unscientific. Everybody knows that sunrise turns grass from
black to white to green.
Post by George Dance
before, grey ocean to be vivid aqua,
These are stunningly dull sub-images, which keep reiterating the obvious -
that the sunrise (which supposedly changes nothing) adds color to the
things of darkness. It wasn't actually worth saying once, and you can't
stop saying it. Extremely boring stuff that, and none of it redeemed by a
clever bit of language, or a neatly-constructed image...
Post by George Dance
all of it now enlightened, all of it
particles in random chaos,
molecules in rigid stasis,
From the banal hammering home of a mediocre "idea" to flights of moronic
"scientific" abstraction. Hideous...
Personally, I'm still trying to view particles in random chaos also being
molecules in chaos but, hey, if the sun turns grass from black to white you
can't fault Georgie for consistent idiocy.
Post by George Dance
so much from void; my eyes the very same
giving it all the beauty,
my words the meaning,
my hearing all the song. I am
the hub, the fixed point,
the still point without which there is no dance
and there is always the dance,
motion and stillness ever entwined,
now illuminated. Yet
Really and truly horrible: an ugly mixture of pretentious mysticism lite
and the image-less horror of one-dimensional abstraction all tied up in
the sensation of pure hackney-dom.
Post by George Dance
nothing is changed, no, nothing is new
but a fresh breeze from the sea; and on the sea
another ship charts course, cutting
prow through breakers, churning
blades amid the foam, curling
sheets of white water
around the mewing gulls.
It's really quite empty isn't it? A badly done exercise in "poetic
contemplation" that is bereft of actual poetry, gutted of human
observation, and exiled to a black pit of sentimental noodle-work in place
of writing. A typical posterior production of yours.
I think Georgie's going through a "metaphysical" phase. A dangerous region
for those without the compass of language.

Rob


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George Dance
2009-02-06 01:30:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Dance
Benediction
Nothing is changed by the rising sun
itself, yet darkness retreats;
That's a very bad enjambment, and a non-intriguing paradox: if "nothing is
changed" by the rising sun, then how can "darkness retreat" since that's a
change? This isn't even to mention the utter flat dullness of the opening
two lines, which are really only informing us that sunrise means less
darkness. Not exactly a poetic revelation, or even a particularly sharp
observation. More along the lines of a massively stoned dullard noticing
they have five fingers on each hand.
Post by George Dance
behind me, land skull-white to soon be green,
Awkward to a fault...
God, you're SO unscientific.  Everybody knows that sunrise turns grass from
black to white to green.
Well, I didn't know that -- so I guess I really am "ignorant" of some
of mankind's wisdom. But, when I came home from work today, just after
noon, the sun was high and the land *looked* white. Must be just
me ...
Post by George Dance
all of it now enlightened, all of it
particles in random chaos,
molecules in rigid stasis,
From the banal hammering home of a mediocre "idea" to flights of moronic
"scientific" abstraction. Hideous...
Personally, I'm still trying to view particles in random chaos also being
molecules in chaos but, hey, if the sun turns grass from black to white you
can't fault Georgie for consistent idiocy.
One or two levels down, molecules in stasis (which they are; the ocean
always stays ocean) are simply particles moving chaotically. That may
be "idiotic" to you, but it is scientific.
It's really quite empty isn't it? A badly done exercise in "poetic
contemplation" that is bereft of actual poetry, gutted of human
observation, and exiled to a black pit of sentimental noodle-work in place
of writing. A typical posterior production of yours.
I think Georgie's going through a "metaphysical" phase.  A dangerous region
for those without the compass of language.
Been there, done that. All 3 poems I've workshopped this week were
parts of a poem I wrote in such a phase years ago. It did make it into
print, and did win a mag's poetry contest; but some of it was, in
retrospect, embarrassingly bad. I had to extensively revise this piece
to even workshop it, and there's one more part I won't even workshop
yet because it's still not good enough.

Which only underscores the truth of your last statement.
Rob
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Dale Houstman
2009-02-06 02:03:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rob Evans
I think Georgie's going through a "metaphysical" phase. A dangerous
region for those without the compass of language.
The area of The False Metaphysical is a last resort for an impoverished
imagination, desperate to attach sub-standard art to an unreachable
"higher ideal" and drag the corpse of their imaginations behind. It
simply cannot remain forever sufficient for such a dullard to settle for
banality in the midst of the common, when they can attempt to hide their
lack of value within a swirl of unearned mysticism.

dmh
George Dance
2009-02-06 01:16:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dale Houstman
Post by George Dance
Benediction
Nothing is changed by the rising sun
itself, yet darkness retreats;
That's a very bad enjambment, and a non-intriguing paradox: if "nothing
is changed" by the rising sun, then how can "darkness retreat" since
that's a change?
I'm not sure if you resolved the paradox; calling it 'non-intriguing'
makes me think you have, while your asking the question makes me think
you haven't. So I'm not sure if you want me to spell it out; but I
guess I must, since you asked, and there are sure to be some who
didn't resolve it themselves. So: the sun being up and darkness
retreating (which is simply a metaphor or symbol) is a change in
appearance of the things, not their reality.
Post by Dale Houstman
This isn't even to mention the utter flat dullness of
the opening two lines, which are really only informing us that sunrise
means less darkness.
Sad if that's all they do say. What they were meant to say was what
the paradox says: that there's been no change (in the earth or any of
its things) and at the same time every change (in appearance or
view).
Post by Dale Houstman
Not exactly a poetic revelation, or even a
particularly sharp observation. More along the lines of a massively
stoned dullard noticing they have five fingers on each hand.
Post by George Dance
behind me, land skull-white to soon be green,
Awkward to a fault...
It's strict IP; but I'll reread and look for that awkwardness.
Post by Dale Houstman
Post by George Dance
before, grey ocean to be vivid aqua,
These are stunningly dull sub-images
OK ... "skull-white" and "vivid aqua" are better than what was there
previously, but I can and will look for sharper ones.
Post by Dale Houstman
, which keep reiterating the obvious
- that the sunrise (which supposedly changes nothing) adds color to the
things of darkness. It wasn't actually worth saying once, and you can't
stop saying it.
Well, I don't recall saying anything remotely like "sunrise adds to
color to the things of darkness" (I'd never even consider white or
grey things to be things of darkness), but of course that's not the
point -- the point is that a reader might hear or imagine this and
think that I said it. Much better for that to happen here than
elsewhere, I suppose.

One thing I see I can do around that is get rid of those words that
might get a reader thinking this is a poem about a sunrise. I can
change "rising sun" to "risen sun" (which adds some nice religious
connotations that fit the voice), and maybe change to past tense in
the first two lines. I'll look at the latter, and definitely do the
former.

So you've given me something that I want in a crit -- a suggestion
that improves what I previously wrote. Thank you sincerely for that.
Post by Dale Houstman
Extremely boring stuff that, and none of it redeemed by
a clever bit of language, or a neatly-constructed image...
Post by George Dance
all of it now enlightened, all of it
particles in random chaos,
 > molecules in rigid stasis,
 From the banal hammering home of a mediocre "idea" to flights of
moronic "scientific" abstraction. Hideous...
Post by George Dance
so much from void; my eyes the very same
giving it all the beauty,
my words the meaning,
my hearing all the song. I am
the hub, the fixed point,
the still point without which there is no dance
and there is always the dance,
motion and stillness ever entwined,
now illuminated. Yet
Really and truly horrible: an ugly mixture of pretentious mysticism lite
and the image-less horror of one-dimensional abstraction all tied up in
the sensation of pure hackney-dom.
Post by George Dance
nothing is changed, no, nothing is new
but a fresh breeze from the sea; and on the sea
another ship charts course, cutting
prow through breakers, churning
blades amid the  foam, curling
sheets of white water
around the mewing gulls.
It's really quite empty isn't it?
As a poem about sunrises, it would be. I know I've written *much*
better about them. 8)
Post by Dale Houstman
A badly done exercise in "poetic
contemplation" that is bereft of actual poetry, gutted of human
observation, and exiled to a black pit of sentimental noodle-work in
place of writing. A typical posterior production of yours.
dmh
And a typical production from you, sir. However, you did take the time
to read a poem you didn't like or even expect to like, and the even
more time to write a critique; and your comments have been helpful.
So, as always, I'll thank you for reading and commenting, and add that
I'll continue to read your critiques as long as you keep writing
them.
Randy
2009-02-06 07:54:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Dance
Post by Dale Houstman
Post by George Dance
behind me, land skull-white to soon be green,
Awkward to a fault...
It's strict IP; but I'll reread and look for that awkwardness.
Can I help point it out? Why not put the modifier (skull-white) before
the noun? After, it only reads like an attempt to sound poetic. And
land can be a verb, adding to the confusion. Also, "to soon" is too
much like 'too soon'. If I really try I can read it as intended but
the words don't carry enough weight to make that meaning stick. "will
soon" is stronger, but you might be changing the tense anyway.


Randy
George Dance
2009-02-06 16:04:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Randy
Post by George Dance
Post by Dale Houstman
Post by George Dance
behind me, land skull-white to soon be green,
Awkward to a fault...
It's strict IP; but I'll reread and look for that awkwardness.
Can I help point it out? Why not put the modifier (skull-white) before
the noun? After, it only reads like an attempt to sound poetic.
OK; this is help. Let me write some recursions; this is something I do
with lines, on my own, but doing it based on someone else's thoughts
is new. First recursion (1R):

behind me, skull-white land to soon be green;

.>And
Post by Randy
land can be a verb, adding to the confusion.
Which is worse in 1R. So, 2R; clarify it's a noun by adding a
modifier:

behind, the skull-white land to soon be green,

Also, "to soon" is too
Post by Randy
much like 'too soon'. If I really try I can read it as intended but
the words don't carry enough weight to make that meaning stick. "will
soon" is stronger, but you might be changing the tense anyway.
Randy
Well, I'll go with that for now; 3R:

behind, the skull-white land will soon be green,

I'll keep going on my own. Thanks.
Randy
2009-02-07 07:30:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Dance
Post by Randy
Post by George Dance
Post by Dale Houstman
Post by George Dance
behind me, land skull-white to soon be green,
Awkward to a fault...
It's strict IP; but I'll reread and look for that awkwardness.
Can I help point it out? Why not put the modifier (skull-white) before
the noun? After, it only reads like an attempt to sound poetic.
OK; this is help. Let me write some recursions; this is something I do
with lines, on my own, but doing it based on someone else's thoughts
behind me, skull-white land to soon be green;
.>And
Post by Randy
land can be a verb, adding to the confusion.
Which is worse in 1R. So, 2R; clarify it's a noun by adding a
behind, the skull-white land to soon be green,
Also, "to soon" is too
Post by Randy
much like 'too soon'. If I really try I can read it as intended but
the words don't carry enough weight to make that meaning stick. "will
soon" is stronger, but you might be changing the tense anyway.
Randy
behind, the skull-white land will soon be green,
I'll keep going on my own. Thanks.
Your welcome. And hey, keep up with those recursions. You'll get that
poetry generator working yet.

Randy
George Dance
2009-02-07 14:26:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Randy
Post by George Dance
Post by Randy
Post by George Dance
Post by Dale Houstman
Post by George Dance
behind me, land skull-white to soon be green,
Awkward to a fault...
It's strict IP; but I'll reread and look for that awkwardness.
Can I help point it out? Why not put the modifier (skull-white) before
the noun? After, it only reads like an attempt to sound poetic.
OK; this is help. Let me write some recursions; this is something I do
with lines, on my own, but doing it based on someone else's thoughts
behind me, skull-white land to soon be green;
.>And
Post by Randy
land can be a verb, adding to the confusion.
Which is worse in 1R. So, 2R; clarify it's a noun by adding a
behind, the skull-white land to soon be green,
Also, "to soon" is too
Post by Randy
much like 'too soon'. If I really try I can read it as intended but
the words don't carry enough weight to make that meaning stick. "will
soon" is stronger, but you might be changing the tense anyway.
Randy
behind, the skull-white land will soon be green,
I'll keep going on my own. Thanks.
Your welcome. And hey, keep up with those recursions. You'll get that
poetry generator working yet.
Randy
A word of caution, there. Your generator, whether it's a machine
you're using or the one you're carrying around in your head, isn't
going to produce any actual poetry. All it will give you is lines of
words -- which could be called drafts, but a draft is not a poem.
Leisha
2009-02-05 20:40:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Dance
Benediction
Nothing is changed by the rising sun
itself, yet darkness retreats;
behind me, land skull-white to soon be green,
before, grey ocean to be vivid aqua,
all of it now enlightened, all of it
particles in random chaos,
molecules in rigid stasis,
so much from void; my eyes the very same
giving it all the beauty,
my words the meaning,
my hearing all the song. I am
the hub, the fixed point,
the still point without which there is no dance
and there is always the dance,
motion and stillness ever entwined,
now illuminated. Yet
nothing is changed, no, nothing is new
but a fresh breeze from the sea; and on the sea
another ship charts course, cutting
prow through breakers, churning
blades amid the  foam, curling
sheets of white water
around the mewing gulls.
I will say that I like the observer standing at a fixed point in the
changing chaos.

I am
Post by George Dance
the hub, the fixed point,
the still point
is overstatement. Spatially, there is something behind and something
before. This is also true of time, so the world is shifting in
different ways & dimensions while the observer is fixed. I love the
tension of that, because I feel this stillness and awareness is as
transient as everything else.
Post by George Dance
so much from void; my eyes the very same
giving it all the beauty,
my words the meaning,
my hearing all the song.
The observer gives everything its beauty, meaning, song. The observer
is a god with a tragic lack of humility. Then,

nothing is new
Post by George Dance
but a fresh breeze from the sea; and on the sea
another ship charts course, cutting
prow through breakers, churning
blades amid the foam, curling
sheets of white water
around the mewing gulls.
Action, motion, release from the moment of contemplation. Things go on
as expected, but freshly. Fresh language would avoid the cliche of
"amid the foam," I think. And "mewing gulls" makes me feel bad,
because I think of kittens and mewing just doesn't strike me as the
kind of sound that gulls make! Of course, critics demand fresh
language and then damn you for using it, but it just doesn't feel
right to me.

Overall, I love the shape of the poem with the observer caught in a
brief, serene moment of reflection and the release of movement at the
end. Yes, there are problems with imagery that have been listed here
already, but it reminds me of one of my favorite poems (that's
probably why I like it so much)--"Elk River Falls" by Billy Collins.

I think that makes that poem work is the real-life details working
together, showing the motion that changes the water itself, and
something changes about the observer, who is fixed on the bank of the
river. I feel differently about the water, about the sparkling,
splintering, wonderful ride it's been through. Same water, different
feeling. Is that what you're going for here? Same landscape, different
feeling? One of my teachers would definitely clamor for details,
details, details. Also, I agree with Dale's definition of tone:
"mysticism lite." Your subject is standing in the world, so ground him
there. Get him wet & dirty. Get yer head outta the clouds, my aunt
would say.

See what wisdom arises from telling it like it is without any attempt
at being poetic. Then slant toward that wisdom. Ha.

Leisha
George Dance
2009-02-06 00:35:08 UTC
Permalink
snip
Post by Leisha
I will say that I like the observer standing at a fixed point in the
changing chaos.
Thanks.
Post by Leisha
Post by George Dance
I am
the hub, the fixed point,
the still point
is overstatement.
It's definite hyperbole (just like "Nothing is changed"), and it
borders on the pretentious; all I can say in that respect is that I
wrote it (and the other two pieces I workshopped this month) decades
ago, and they were far more pretentious in the original.
Post by Leisha
Spatially, there is something behind and something
before. This is also true of time, so the world is shifting in
different ways & dimensions while the observer is fixed. I love the
tension of that, because I feel this stillness and awareness is as
transient as everything else.
Post by George Dance
so much from void; my eyes the very same
giving it all the beauty,
my words the meaning,
my hearing all the song.
The observer gives everything its beauty, meaning, song. The observer
is a god with a tragic lack of humility. Then,
nothing is new
Post by George Dance
but a fresh breeze from the sea; and on the sea
another ship charts course, cutting
prow through breakers, churning
blades amid the  foam, curling
sheets of white water
around the mewing gulls.
Action, motion, release from the moment of contemplation. Things go on
as expected, but freshly.
Thanks. I'm glad you the change here worked for you; and "fresh" is
the exact word for what I'm trying to show here. (It just popped into
my head in my last revision, too.)
Post by Leisha
Fresh language would avoid the cliche of
"amid the foam," I think.
You're right. I did tighten up "cutting / prow against the wind" --
it's now "shearing / prow against breakers" -- but I can do better
than "amid the foam," too.
Post by Leisha
And "mewing gulls" makes me feel bad,
because I think of kittens and mewing just doesn't strike me as the
kind of sound that gulls make!
Oh, but they do mew; at least if you hear them from a distance. (Up
close, in the supermarket parking lot, they're do sound more like a
screech 8) It's one of the prettiest natural sounds I've ever heard.


My sincere thanks for your reading and commenting, as always; and I'm
happy that you got something enjoyable from reading. When I saw who'd
contributed, I had to read yours first.
Post by Leisha
Of course, critics demand fresh
language and then damn you for using it, but it just doesn't feel
right to me.
Overall, I love the shape of the poem with the observer caught in a
brief, serene moment of reflection and the release of movement at the
end. Yes, there are problems with imagery that have been listed here
already, but it reminds me of one of my favorite poems (that's
probably why I like it so much)--"Elk River Falls" by Billy Collins.
I think that makes that poem work is the real-life details working
together, showing the motion that changes the water itself, and
something changes about the observer, who is fixed on the bank of the
river. I feel differently about the water, about the sparkling,
splintering, wonderful ride it's been through. Same water, different
feeling. Is that what you're going for here? Same landscape, different
feeling? One of my teachers would definitely clamor for details,
"mysticism lite." Your subject is standing in the world, so ground him
there. Get him wet & dirty. Get yer head outta the clouds, my aunt
would say.
Definitely there's still an element of naivete or pretentiousness in
these that I have to work out.

One thing I did do in my recent revisions, along those lines was to
cite a much better poet. In that quote you gave -

I am
he hub, the fixed point
the still point

- the last three words begin a long quote from T.S. Eliot. If you can
find the original, you can read a much better, by orders of magnitude,
poem of this type. So I'd urge you to look for it and read it
tomorrow.
Post by Leisha
See what wisdom arises from telling it like it is without any attempt
at being poetic. Then slant toward that wisdom. Ha.
Leisha
My sincere thanks for your reading and commenting, as always; and I'm
happy that you did enjoy reading it.



I definitely enjoy the way you write a critique: respond as a reader,
and work the poet's criticisms into that. When When I saw who'd
contributed comments, I had to read yours first.
George Dance
2009-02-06 01:45:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Dance
snip
Post by Leisha
I will say that I like the observer standing at a fixed point in the
changing chaos.
Thanks.
Post by Leisha
                 I am
the hub, the fixed point,
the still point
is overstatement.
It's definite hyperbole (just like "Nothing is changed"), and it
borders on the pretentious; all I can say in that respect is that I
wrote it (and the other two pieces I workshopped this month) decades
ago, and they were far more pretentious in the original.
Post by Leisha
Spatially, there is something behind and something
before. This is also true of time, so the world is shifting in
different ways & dimensions while the observer is fixed. I love the
tension of that, because I feel this stillness and awareness is as
transient as everything else.
so much from void; my eyes the very same
giving it all the beauty,
my words the meaning,
my hearing all the song.
The observer gives everything its beauty, meaning, song. The observer
is a god with a tragic lack of humility. Then,
nothing is new
but a fresh breeze from the sea; and on the sea
another ship charts course, cutting
prow through breakers, churning
blades amid the  foam, curling
sheets of white water
around the mewing gulls.
Action, motion, release from the moment of contemplation. Things go on
as expected, but freshly.
Thanks. I'm glad you the change here worked for you; and "fresh" is
the exact word for what I'm trying to show here. (It just popped into
my head in my last revision, too.)
Post by Leisha
Fresh language would avoid the cliche of
"amid the foam," I think.
You're right. I did tighten up "cutting / prow against the wind" --
it's now "shearing / prow against breakers" -- but I can do better
than "amid the foam," too.
Post by Leisha
And "mewing gulls" makes me feel bad,
because I think of kittens and mewing just doesn't strike me as the
kind of sound that gulls make!
Oh, but they do mew; at least if you hear them from a distance. (Up
close, in the supermarket parking lot, they're do sound more like a
screech 8)  It's one of the prettiest natural sounds I've ever heard.
My sincere thanks for your reading and commenting, as always; and I'm
happy that you got something enjoyable from reading. When I saw who'd
contributed, I had to read yours first.
Post by Leisha
Of course, critics demand fresh
language and then damn you for using it, but it just doesn't feel
right to me.
Overall, I love the shape of the poem with the observer caught in a
brief, serene moment of reflection and the release of movement at the
end. Yes, there are problems with imagery that have been listed here
already, but it reminds me of one of my favorite poems (that's
probably why I like it so much)--"Elk River Falls" by Billy Collins.
I think that makes that poem work is the real-life details working
together, showing the motion that changes the water itself, and
something changes about the observer, who is fixed on the bank of the
river. I feel differently about the water, about the sparkling,
splintering, wonderful ride it's been through. Same water, different
feeling. Is that what you're going for here? Same landscape, different
feeling? One of my teachers would definitely clamor for details,
"mysticism lite." Your subject is standing in the world, so ground him
there. Get him wet & dirty. Get yer head outta the clouds, my aunt
would say.
Definitely there's still an element of naivete or pretentiousness in
these that I have to work out.
One thing I did do in my recent revisions, along those lines was to
cite a much better poet. In that quote you gave -
          I am
he hub, the fixed point
the still point
- the last three words begin a long quote from T.S. Eliot. If you can
find the original, you can read a much better, by orders of magnitude,
poem of this type. So I'd urge you to look for it and read it
tomorrow.
Post by Leisha
See what wisdom arises from telling it like it is without any attempt
at being poetic. Then slant toward that wisdom. Ha.
Leisha
My sincere thanks for your reading and commenting, as always; and I'm
happy that you did enjoy reading it.
I definitely enjoy the way you write a critique: respond as a reader,
and work the poet's criticisms into that. When When I saw who'd
contributed comments, I had to read yours first.
You're a sweetheart. Which Eliot poem are you referring to?
Leisha
Burnt Norton.
Leisha
2009-02-06 01:02:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Dance
snip
Post by Leisha
I will say that I like the observer standing at a fixed point in the
changing chaos.
Thanks.
Post by Leisha
                 I am
the hub, the fixed point,
the still point
is overstatement.
It's definite hyperbole (just like "Nothing is changed"), and it
borders on the pretentious; all I can say in that respect is that I
wrote it (and the other two pieces I workshopped this month) decades
ago, and they were far more pretentious in the original.
Post by Leisha
Spatially, there is something behind and something
before. This is also true of time, so the world is shifting in
different ways & dimensions while the observer is fixed. I love the
tension of that, because I feel this stillness and awareness is as
transient as everything else.
so much from void; my eyes the very same
giving it all the beauty,
my words the meaning,
my hearing all the song.
The observer gives everything its beauty, meaning, song. The observer
is a god with a tragic lack of humility. Then,
nothing is new
but a fresh breeze from the sea; and on the sea
another ship charts course, cutting
prow through breakers, churning
blades amid the  foam, curling
sheets of white water
around the mewing gulls.
Action, motion, release from the moment of contemplation. Things go on
as expected, but freshly.
Thanks. I'm glad you the change here worked for you; and "fresh" is
the exact word for what I'm trying to show here. (It just popped into
my head in my last revision, too.)
Post by Leisha
Fresh language would avoid the cliche of
"amid the foam," I think.
You're right. I did tighten up "cutting / prow against the wind" --
it's now "shearing / prow against breakers" -- but I can do better
than "amid the foam," too.
Post by Leisha
And "mewing gulls" makes me feel bad,
because I think of kittens and mewing just doesn't strike me as the
kind of sound that gulls make!
Oh, but they do mew; at least if you hear them from a distance. (Up
close, in the supermarket parking lot, they're do sound more like a
screech 8)  It's one of the prettiest natural sounds I've ever heard.
My sincere thanks for your reading and commenting, as always; and I'm
happy that you got something enjoyable from reading. When I saw who'd
contributed, I had to read yours first.
Post by Leisha
Of course, critics demand fresh
language and then damn you for using it, but it just doesn't feel
right to me.
Overall, I love the shape of the poem with the observer caught in a
brief, serene moment of reflection and the release of movement at the
end. Yes, there are problems with imagery that have been listed here
already, but it reminds me of one of my favorite poems (that's
probably why I like it so much)--"Elk River Falls" by Billy Collins.
I think that makes that poem work is the real-life details working
together, showing the motion that changes the water itself, and
something changes about the observer, who is fixed on the bank of the
river. I feel differently about the water, about the sparkling,
splintering, wonderful ride it's been through. Same water, different
feeling. Is that what you're going for here? Same landscape, different
feeling? One of my teachers would definitely clamor for details,
"mysticism lite." Your subject is standing in the world, so ground him
there. Get him wet & dirty. Get yer head outta the clouds, my aunt
would say.
Definitely there's still an element of naivete or pretentiousness in
these that I have to work out.
One thing I did do in my recent revisions, along those lines was to
cite a much better poet. In that quote you gave -
          I am
he hub, the fixed point
the still point
- the last three words begin a long quote from T.S. Eliot. If you can
find the original, you can read a much better, by orders of magnitude,
poem of this type. So I'd urge you to look for it and read it
tomorrow.
Post by Leisha
See what wisdom arises from telling it like it is without any attempt
at being poetic. Then slant toward that wisdom. Ha.
Leisha
My sincere thanks for your reading and commenting, as always; and I'm
happy that you did enjoy reading it.
I definitely enjoy the way you write a critique: respond as a reader,
and work the poet's criticisms into that. When When I saw who'd
contributed comments, I had to read yours first.
You're a sweetheart. Which Eliot poem are you referring to?

Leisha
Dale Houstman
2009-02-06 11:24:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Dance
I definitely enjoy the way you write a critique: respond as a reader,
and work the poet's criticisms into that. When When I saw who'd
contributed comments, I had to read yours first.
You're a sweetheart. Which Eliot poem are you referring to?
Leisha
He's polishing your apples. That doesn't mean you are obligated to eat them.

dmh
George Dance
2009-02-06 14:53:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dale Houstman
Post by George Dance
I definitely enjoy the way you write a critique: respond as a reader,
and work the poet's criticisms into that. When I saw who'd
contributed comments, I had to read yours first.
You're a sweetheart. Which Eliot poem are you referring to?
Leisha
He's polishing your apples. That doesn't mean you are obligated to eat them.
dmh
Oh, my God; have you decided that Burnt Norton isn't a poem, either?
Karla
2009-02-07 01:29:33 UTC
Permalink
In article <cf5b69bc-cfe0-41d5-805e-***@u18g2000pro.googlegroups.com>,
Leisha says...
Post by Leisha
Post by George Dance
Benediction
Nothing is changed by the rising sun
itself, yet darkness retreats;
behind me, land skull-white to soon be green,
before, grey ocean to be vivid aqua,
all of it now enlightened, all of it
particles in random chaos,
molecules in rigid stasis,
so much from void; my eyes the very same
giving it all the beauty,
my words the meaning,
my hearing all the song. I am
the hub, the fixed point,
the still point without which there is no dance
and there is always the dance,
motion and stillness ever entwined,
now illuminated. Yet
nothing is changed, no, nothing is new
but a fresh breeze from the sea; and on the sea
another ship charts course, cutting
prow through breakers, churning
blades amid the =A0foam, curling
sheets of white water
around the mewing gulls.
I will say that I like the observer standing at a fixed point in the
changing chaos.
I am
Post by George Dance
the hub, the fixed point,
the still point
is overstatement. Spatially, there is something behind and something
before. This is also true of time, so the world is shifting in
different ways & dimensions while the observer is fixed. I love the
tension of that, because I feel this stillness and awareness is as
transient as everything else.
Post by George Dance
so much from void; my eyes the very same
giving it all the beauty,
my words the meaning,
my hearing all the song.
The observer gives everything its beauty, meaning, song. The observer
is a god with a tragic lack of humility. Then,
nothing is new
Post by George Dance
but a fresh breeze from the sea; and on the sea
another ship charts course, cutting
prow through breakers, churning
blades amid the foam, curling
sheets of white water
around the mewing gulls.
Action, motion, release from the moment of contemplation. Things go on
as expected, but freshly. Fresh language would avoid the cliche of
"amid the foam," I think. And "mewing gulls" makes me feel bad,
because I think of kittens and mewing just doesn't strike me as the
kind of sound that gulls make! Of course, critics demand fresh
language and then damn you for using it, but it just doesn't feel
right to me.
Overall, I love the shape of the poem with the observer caught in a
brief, serene moment of reflection and the release of movement at the
end. Yes, there are problems with imagery that have been listed here
already, but it reminds me of one of my favorite poems (that's
probably why I like it so much)--"Elk River Falls" by Billy Collins.
I think that makes that poem work is the real-life details working
together, showing the motion that changes the water itself, and
something changes about the observer, who is fixed on the bank of the
river. I feel differently about the water, about the sparkling,
splintering, wonderful ride it's been through. Same water, different
feeling. Is that what you're going for here? Same landscape, different
feeling? One of my teachers would definitely clamor for details,
"mysticism lite." Your subject is standing in the world, so ground him
there. Get him wet & dirty. Get yer head outta the clouds, my aunt
would say.
See what wisdom arises from telling it like it is without any attempt
at being poetic. Then slant toward that wisdom. Ha.
Leisha
This whole thread makes me miss the old days of flame wars and good poems. I
wonder if Marek still read here? He entered and won a poetry contest with this
wonderful poem:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.poems/msg/596f4a35677a9f25?hl=en

going
----------------------------------------------------------


1.


the potawatomi of illinois were not going quiet
they killed the fort dearborn souls in the war of 1812
tecumseh the shawnee fighting in canada with the british
against the americans (long knives) was too soon dead
fortified with history of these ex-forests ex-praries
i'm going


the prairie had its highways in 1804
vast trade networks -- horses and guns for corn
mandan sioux shoshonee
cheyenne cree


driving on i-94 i'm going through indian reservations
the drying out spots -- poverty and islands of gambling
i'm going


2.


going-to-the-sun road
they say one of the beautiful drives of the world
climbs up and down logan pass in glacier national park
in april under 100 feet of snow
plowed open in time for july
dress warmly for the snow-packed higher elevations
i'm going


and all around the jaggediest sierra imaginable
and all around -- emerald forest green
and all around winnebagos mini-vans and camcorders
this used to belong to the pro-british blackfeet


from heights the mountain lakes look deep turquoise
because of glacier-ground suspended dust
i'm going


3.


corrosive america left and right always was corrosive
indians were always raiding other indians
without fighting -- how could there be honorable chiefs?
like indians i am happy to be on the road
my car is still driving at 200 thousand miles my pony
without trading supplies for shoshone and nez perce horses
lewis and clark wouldn't have crossed and recrossed the divide
without my pony i would be a city-stuck tv-watching chicagoan
aching for my fair ladies my fair open spaces my fair rides
i'm going. going going


too caught-up in the sinew too fargone in the head not to go.


Marek Lugowski
June 27, 1999
Chicago, Illinois
--
--
George Dance
2009-02-07 14:32:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Karla
This whole thread makes me miss the old days of flame wars and good poems.
I'm familiar with the old days of flame wars; they seem to have gone
strong through January 2008 at least. But when were those days of good
poems?
Post by Karla
wonder if Marek still read here? He entered and won a poetry contest with this
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.poems/msg/596f4a35677a9f25?hl=en
                going
                ----------------------------------------------------------
                1.
                the potawatomi of illinois were not going quiet
                they killed the fort dearborn souls in the war of 1812
                tecumseh the shawnee fighting in canada with the british
                against the americans (long knives) was too soon dead
                fortified with history of these ex-forests ex-praries
                i'm going
                the prairie had its highways in 1804
                vast trade networks -- horses and guns for corn
                mandan sioux shoshonee
                cheyenne cree
                driving on i-94 i'm going through indian reservations
                the drying out spots -- poverty and islands of gambling
                i'm going
                2.
                going-to-the-sun road
                they say one of the beautiful drives of the world
                climbs up and down logan pass in glacier national park
                in april under 100 feet of snow
                plowed open in time for july
                dress warmly for the snow-packed higher elevations
                i'm going
                and all around the jaggediest sierra imaginable
                and all around -- emerald forest green
                and all around winnebagos mini-vans and camcorders
                this used to belong to the pro-british blackfeet
                from heights the mountain lakes look deep turquoise
                because of glacier-ground suspended dust
                i'm going
                3.
                corrosive america left and right always was corrosive
                indians were always raiding other indians
                without fighting -- how could there be honorable chiefs?
                like indians i am happy to be on the road
                my car is still driving at 200 thousand miles my pony
                without trading supplies for shoshone and nez perce horses
                lewis and clark wouldn't have crossed and recrossed the divide
                without my pony i would be a city-stuck tv-watching chicagoan
                aching for my fair ladies my fair open spaces my fair rides
                i'm going.  going going
                too caught-up in the sinew too fargone in the head not to go.
                        Marek Lugowski
                        June 27, 1999
                        Chicago, Illinois
--
Any details on the poetry contest it won? That's no mean achievement;
but I'm sure that, as a winner of at least one yourself, you're aware
of that.
Will Dockery
2009-02-06 22:09:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Dance
Benediction
Nothing is changed by the rising sun
itself, yet darkness retreats;
behind me, land skull-white to soon be green,
before, grey ocean to be vivid aqua,
all of it now enlightened, all of it
particles in random chaos,
molecules in rigid stasis,
so much from void; my eyes the very same
giving it all the beauty,
my words the meaning,
my hearing all the song. I am
the hub, the fixed point,
the still point without which there is no dance
and there is always the dance,
motion and stillness ever entwined,
now illuminated. Yet
nothing is changed, no, nothing is new
but a fresh breeze from the sea; and on the sea
another ship charts course, cutting
prow through breakers, churning
blades amid the foam, curling
sheets of white water
around the mewing gulls.
"Bloody brilliant!"... No, make that at least /double fucken/ bloody
brilliant, judged by the current standard set by the /standard bearers/.

Really, though, good stuff, George, no kiddin'.
--
"Twilight Girl" and other song-poems by Will Dockery:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery
George Dance
2009-02-07 15:00:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
Benediction
Nothing is changed by the rising sun
itself, yet darkness retreats;
behind me, land skull-white to soon be green,
before, grey ocean to be vivid aqua,
all of it now enlightened, all of it
particles in random chaos,
molecules in rigid stasis,
so much from void; my eyes the very same
giving it all the beauty,
my words the meaning,
my hearing all the song. I am
the hub, the fixed point,
the still point without which there is no dance
and there is always the dance,
motion and stillness ever entwined,
now illuminated. Yet
nothing is changed, no, nothing is new
but a fresh breeze from the sea; and on the sea
another ship charts course, cutting
prow through breakers, churning
blades amid the  foam, curling
sheets of white water
around the mewing gulls.
"Bloody brilliant!"... No, make that at least /double fucken/ bloody
brilliant, judged by the current standard set by the /standard bearers/.
Really, though, good stuff, George, no kiddin'.
Thank you for reading and commenting. I'm happy with the way it's
shaping up, but it's not there yet. It is much better than either the
original or the version that won the poetry contest; but only parts of
the vision have made it into the words as yet. Fortunately I've set
myself till the end of February to get this and the other parts done,
so there's lots of time.

(BTW, I notice you added "rec.arts.poems". I snipped that, but, if you
wish to put it back on, go ahead. I'm just trying to minimize the
number of times my own name appears there. I don't have any objections
to anyone else copying aapc discussion there; in fact I think that's
not a bad idea, since it may attract some of the new people who aren't
having much success with getting any decent feedback there. Since that
question came up last week, I thought I should throw it in.)
Post by Will Dockery
--
"Twilight Girl" and other song-poems by Will Dockery:http://www.myspace.com/willdockery
Will Dockery
2009-02-08 10:26:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Dance
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
Benediction
Nothing is changed by the rising sun
itself, yet darkness retreats;
behind me, land skull-white to soon be green,
before, grey ocean to be vivid aqua,
all of it now enlightened, all of it
particles in random chaos,
molecules in rigid stasis,
so much from void; my eyes the very same
giving it all the beauty,
my words the meaning,
my hearing all the song. I am
the hub, the fixed point,
the still point without which there is no dance
and there is always the dance,
motion and stillness ever entwined,
now illuminated. Yet
nothing is changed, no, nothing is new
but a fresh breeze from the sea; and on the sea
another ship charts course, cutting
prow through breakers, churning
blades amid the  foam, curling
sheets of white water
around the mewing gulls.
"Bloody brilliant!"... No, make that at least /double fucken/ bloody
brilliant, judged by the current standard set by the /standard bearers/.
Really, though, good stuff, George, no kiddin'.
Thank you for reading and commenting. I'm happy with the way it's
shaping up, but it's not there yet. It is much better than either the
original or the version that won the poetry contest;
I don't know the story of the contest yet, if you've written about it
here somewhere... if you'd want to retell (or copy-paste) it here, I'd
be interested, and your dedicated followers such as ggamble would no
doubt like to throw a couple of "jesus fucks" in at it... heh...

but only parts of
Post by George Dance
the vision have made it into the words as yet. Fortunately I've set
myself till the end of February to get this and the other parts done,
so there's lots of time.
Interestingly, or maybe even ironically, parts of this one remind me a
lot of some of Houstman in his better days, the use of color is good,
and the way I read it visually as a stark bright, almost blinding
white, then colors start seeping into it.

Then all is bright, all is white, again.
Post by George Dance
(BTW, I notice you added "rec.arts.poems". I snipped that, but, if you
wish to put it back on, go ahead. I'm just trying to minimize the
number of times my own name appears there. I don't have any objections
to anyone else copying aapc discussion there; in fact I think that's
not a bad idea, since it may attract some of the new people who aren't
having much success with getting any decent feedback there. Since that
question came up last week, I thought I should throw it in.)> --
Yes, a goal of mine is to get the poets lost over in that wasteland
over here, as was intended by the founding of alt.arts.poetry.comments
back in 1997, a "kinder, gentler" and more for the development of
poets and poetry rather than a vicious pit of thugs with the intention
of tearing down and driving away newbies... send 'em over here, in
other words.

As we've staked this "ground" out as the semi-official Usenet
Collective h.q. pretty much already, I'm thinking a weekly (or even
daily) announcement type thread over there, blatantly saying "Hey,
poets! Come over to a.a.p.c.!" and give the FAQ link and perhaps the
Wikinfo article (which can be added to, btw, but note that anything
posted there goes into a "public domain" share-alike type area, and
can, and most likely will, be imported to other Wikis), which I hope
to develop as a history of Usenet poetry, eventually... since that
goes back to 1979, there's a /lot/ of history that could be unearthed!

Great fun, imo, though:

http://www.wikinfo.org/index.php/Alt.arts.poetry.comments

{{SS}}
{{Criticism}}

''''alt.arts.poetry.comments'''' (known as a.a.p.c) is a [[Usenet]]
[[newsgroup]],
created on [[July 6, 1997]] by poet [[Michael Giardina]] as an
alternative to
the long-established [[rec.arts.poems]] for those who specifically
sought
helpful comments on their writing. The group's heyday for on-topic
posts was approximately between [[1999]] and [[2002]],
but both [[poetry]] and comments continue to be posted.

==AAPC regulars==

*[[George Dance (politician)]]
*[[Will Dockery]]
*[[Dennis M. Hammes]]
*[[Dale M. Houstman]]
*[[Gary Gamble]]
*[[~Terran]]
*[[M.S.I.F.G]]
*[[Her Illustrious Ashes]]
*[[klunk]]
*[[Manwolf]]
*[[Karla Rogers]]
*[[Stuart Leichter]]
*[[Rob Evans]]
*[[Meat Plow]]
*[[Leisha]]
*[[=z=]]
*[[Tom Bishop]]
*[[Barbara's Cat]]
*[[Paul D. Wilson]]
*[[Miss Hicks]]
*[[FarStar]]
*[[J.R. Sherman]]
*[[Sherrie Lee]]

== External links ==

*[http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.poems/topics
alt.arts.poetry.comments on Google Groups]

*[http://www.aapcsite.plus.com/ AAPC FAQ and other poetry resources
written by group regulars]

* [http://creativestudios.com/abstractpoetry.html Abstract Poetry by
Michael Giardina, the creator of Alt.arts.poetry.comments]

*[http://creativestudios.com Creative Studios Literary Magazine often
referenced by the group's core contributors]

* [http://www.rikweb.co.uk/photos/rogues-gallery.html Usenet Poets
photo gallery]

Another idea that I've thought of (and sometimes consider
alt.pizza.delivery.drivers to be) is some of us taking one of the
lesser trafficed poetry newsgroups and using it for sort of sidebar
commentary and discussion, and crosspost out from there... as I
suspect many Usenet posters have probably done over the years.

http://www.wikinfo.org/index.php/Alt.arts.poetry.comments

--
"Twilight Girl" and other song-poems by Will Dockery:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery
George Dance
2009-02-08 15:40:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
Benediction
snip
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.arts.poetry.comments/msg/ba5d742c817e79ee?hl=en%02a6e63ca55b7913b
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
Post by Will Dockery
"Bloody brilliant!"... No, make that at least /double fucken/ bloody
brilliant, judged by the current standard set by the /standard bearers/.
Really, though, good stuff, George, no kiddin'.
Thank you for reading and commenting. I'm happy with the way it's
shaping up, but it's not there yet. It is much better than either the
original or the version that won the poetry contest;
I don't know the story of the contest yet, if you've written about it
here somewhere... if you'd want to retell (or copy-paste) it here, I'd
be interested, and your dedicated followers such as ggamble would no
doubt like to throw a couple of "jesus fucks" in at it... heh...
Yeah, I'd like to tell the story, but not here -- I'd like to put it
in the "Consecration" thread", as that hasn't been mucked up as much
as this one; I think putting it there will make it easier to find. So
I'll go do that as soon as I'm done here.
Post by Will Dockery
but only parts of
Post by George Dance
the vision have made it into the words as yet. Fortunately I've set
myself till the end of February to get this and the other parts done,
so there's lots of time.
Interestingly, or maybe even ironically, parts of this one remind me a
lot of some of Houstman in his better days, the use of color is good,
Houstman? Well, I have noticed myself paying more attention to colour
words since I read his "Her Lark Colony" when you reposted it. That
wasn't a bad little piece at all, and it left me with a favorable
impression (which lasted until I found and read "Pot Holder Day").
Post by Will Dockery
and the way I read it visually as a stark bright, almost blinding
white, then colors start seeping into it.
Then all is bright, all is white, again.
Yes! That's exactly what I wanted there; "stark bright, almost
blinding" is the look of sunshine on snow, which was what I was trying
to capture, and I needed to hear that from someone after the "white
grass" nonsense Dale and Rob came up with. Originally this was set in
summer, and the land was just "green", which was very dull, but I
prefer how it reads now, opening and closing with white as the first
and last visual image. I'm glad those worked for you; it tells me
they'll work for other readers as well.
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
(BTW, I notice you added "rec.arts.poems". I snipped that, but, if you
wish to put it back on, go ahead. I'm just trying to minimize the
number of times my own name appears there. I don't have any objections
to anyone else copying aapc discussion there; in fact I think that's
not a bad idea, since it may attract some of the new people who aren't
having much success with getting any decent feedback there. Since that
question came up last week, I thought I should throw it in.)> --
Yes, a goal of mine is to get the poets lost over in that wasteland
over here, as was intended by the founding of alt.arts.poetry.comments
back in 1997, a "kinder, gentler" and more for the development of
poets and poetry rather than a vicious pit of thugs with the intention
of tearing down and driving away newbies... send 'em over here, in
other words.
Of course, we still have our own thugs, but I'm pleased with how
they're being received by the rest of the group; maybe they will go
away soon. Dennis Hammes's death certainly caused the nuisance level
to fall, and there was a noticeable improvement in the quality of the
group in January, a glimpse of what this group could be. Things have
fallen off a bit since as the thugs have regrouped, but I think the
level is still well up from where it had sunk.
Post by Will Dockery
As we've staked this "ground" out as the semi-official Usenet
Collective h.q. pretty much already, I'm thinking a weekly (or even
daily) announcement type thread over there, blatantly saying "Hey,
poets! Come over to a.a.p.c.!" and give the FAQ link and perhaps the
Wikinfo article (which can be added to, btw, but note that anything
posted there goes into a "public domain" share-alike type area, and
can, and most likely will, be imported to other Wikis), which I hope
to develop as a history of Usenet poetry, eventually... since that
goes back to 1979, there's a /lot/ of history that could be unearthed!
I don't know where you find the time and energy. Good plans, and I'll
do my best to keep aapc interesting. I'll continue to not post my own
poems to RAP, but I'll read and comment there from time to time, and
if I remember I'll mention aapc, too.
Post by Will Dockery
http://www.wikinfo.org/index.php/Alt.arts.poetry.comments
{{SS}}
{{Criticism}}
''''alt.arts.poetry.comments'''' (known as a.a.p.c) is a [[Usenet]]
[[newsgroup]],
created on [[July 6, 1997]] by poet [[Michael Giardina]] as an
alternative to
the long-established [[rec.arts.poems]] for those who specifically
sought
helpful comments on their writing. The group's heyday for on-topic
posts was approximately between [[1999]] and [[2002]],
but both [[poetry]] and comments continue to be posted.
==AAPC regulars==
*[[George Dance (politician)]]
*[[Will Dockery]]
*[[Dennis M. Hammes]]
*[[Dale M. Houstman]]
*[[Gary Gamble]]
*[[~Terran]]
*[[M.S.I.F.G]]
*[[Her Illustrious Ashes]]
*[[klunk]]
*[[Manwolf]]
*[[Karla Rogers]]
*[[Stuart Leichter]]
*[[Rob Evans]]
*[[Meat Plow]]
*[[Leisha]]
*[[=z=]]
*[[Tom Bishop]]
*[[Barbara's Cat]]
*[[Paul D. Wilson]]
*[[Miss Hicks]]
*[[FarStar]]
*[[J.R. Sherman]]
*[[Sherrie Lee]]
== External links ==
*[http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.poems/topics
alt.arts.poetry.comments on Google Groups]
*[http://www.aapcsite.plus.com/AAPC FAQ and other poetry resources
written by group regulars]
* [http://creativestudios.com/abstractpoetry.htmlAbstract Poetry by
Michael Giardina, the creator of Alt.arts.poetry.comments]
*[http://creativestudios.comCreative Studios Literary Magazine often
referenced by the group's core contributors]
* [http://www.rikweb.co.uk/photos/rogues-gallery.htmlUsenet Poets
photo gallery]
Another idea that I've thought of (and sometimes consider
alt.pizza.delivery.drivers to be) is some of us taking one of the
lesser trafficed poetry newsgroups and using it for sort of sidebar
commentary and discussion, and crosspost out from there... as I
suspect many Usenet posters have probably done over the years.
I've always considered alt.arts.poetry to be my home base. It's a
small group, with not many readers or posters -- I suspect it never
was never meant to be a group in the first place, but only got added
as a root when aapc was chartered. The only other person consistently
writing poetry to it that I've come across is Fred Oinka, who doesn't
write much these days; and like most of usenet it's become infested
with trolls and kooks, but not that many.
Post by Will Dockery
http://www.wikinfo.org/index.php/Alt.arts.poetry.comments
--
"Twilight Girl" and other song-poems by Will Dockery:http://www.myspace.com/willdockery
George Dance
2009-02-07 20:03:36 UTC
Permalink
V. Benediction

Nothing is changed by the risen sun
itself, yet all is enlightened as dark retreats:
the land behind me skull-white to be green,
before, grey ocean to be vivid aqua,
all in motion, all at rest, all of it
particles in random chaos
become molecules in rigid stasis,
so much from void; my eyes the very same
giving it all the beauty,
my words the meaning,
my hearing all the song. I am
the hub, the fixed point,
the still point without which there is no dance
and there is always the dance,
movement and stillness ever entwined,
now illuminated. Yet
nothing is changed, no, nothing is new
but a fresh breeze from the sea; while on the sea
another ship charts course, churning
blades into spume, shearing
prow through breakers, curling
sheets of white water
around the mewing gulls.
Randy
2009-02-09 13:05:44 UTC
Permalink
The Molecules of George’s Dance

George sat smoking on his time machine for hours
and when he was fully caveman he marvelled at all
the things he’d previously only glanced at. The forest
was no longer just a forest, it was made up of trees,
each tree had thousands of leaves, and a trunk and
branches and there were ants, bugs, birds, squirrels
crawling and living all over them. The ground was
no longer just a forest floor for there were leaves in
all states of decomposition, rocks and boulders,
most with moss and sand and dirt and bugs, always
bugs, and ground squirrels. The ocean was no longer
just an ocean, there were shells and sand and rocks
and fish and crabs and lobsters, and the water could
be droplets or it could be part of the whole ocean
but still it was the same moving, living water. And the
sun was up in the sky but he knew it wasn’t really in
the sky it was ninety-three million miles away but
still it was right there in the sky so hot and bright and
yellow. He stared at the sun and when his eyes hurt
too much he smoked a few more hours on his time
machine and when it was dark he marvelled at how
even though the sun was gone it wasn’t really gone,
it was just the earth had turned and left him with a
secret. He knew everything was the same as it was
but it was different somehow. Somehow the the lack
of sunlight made everything darker but still they
were the same things. He got up to walk about to
marvel at the darkness of all the things he had seen
in the light. He threw his arms up to feel the moist
air and the moths and mosquitos and night beetles
moving in the air and he felt all of these as well as
tree branches and leaves. And everything was moving.
Dancing, he thought. Everything was dancing and he
knew that it sounded pretentious because his last
name was Dance but he also knew that he had heard
that before. The Dance of Life. He was experiencing
the Dance of Life and he threw himself into it. But he
stumbled in the darkness, in the colorless darkness,
and as he fell he marvelled at the few mosquitos or
moths that brushed his face. And when he hit the
ground he marvelled at how hard the ground was,
even though he knew that all matter had vast
distances between each atom relative to the size of
the atom and there is very little actual matter there
or in his head, and he marvelled at how hard the
stones were and how one had weathered into a
coarse array of crystals that ripped his skin. As he
lay there and breathed he felt a little bit of the
smoke of the time machine leave him with each
exhalation and soon he was no longer caveman, he
was fully modern man again and his head hurt. But he
could still marvel at the world about him. After a
journey like that how could he not remember how
marvellous it was? So George lay there in full
marvellation and watched as the bugs and animals
approached him. He knew they weren’t marvelling at
him but he liked to think they were and he marvelled
back at them. A coyote or two came and tugged at his
arms and legs and they didn’t marvel at his clothing
because it prevented them from eating more of him,
at first, anyway. He marvelled at how the colorful
flies and beetles came from miles away and knew
exactly were to find him because some of his very
molecules had already wafted into the air. He
marvelled at his yellow secret and how even without
the smoke of his time machine, time was still playing
tricks on him. The sun seemed to rise and set
erratically but he knew it hadn’t changed, that the
earth was still rotating once almost exactly every
twenty-four hours, that it was just that he was dead
and dancing back into molecules, molecules that
became a part of the beetles and the coyotes and
the earth and the air.
FarStar
2009-02-09 14:01:04 UTC
Permalink
The Molecules of George’s Dance
George sat smoking on his time machine for hours
and when he was fully caveman he marvelled at all
the things he’d previously only glanced at. The forest
shnipp>, that it was just that he was dead
and dancing back into molecules, molecules that
became a part of the beetles and the coyotes and
the earth and the air.
-- too bad you couldn't have summed it up in 40 lines
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Subjugate the rhyme and rawk with the rhythm
Only got one line to balk all the schizm

SteepleJack Beer
http://www.lulu.com/content/5611390
Randy
2009-02-10 07:33:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by FarStar
Post by Randy
The Molecules of George’s Dance
George sat smoking on his time machine for hours
and when he was fully caveman he marvelled at all
the things he’d previously only glanced at. The forest
shnipp>, that it was just that he was dead
and dancing back into molecules, molecules that
became a part of the beetles and the coyotes and
the earth and the air.
-- too bad you couldn't have summed it up in 40 lines
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, I'm all broken up.

Too bad the far stars are also the dimmest.
Manwolf
2009-02-10 07:42:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Randy
Yeah, I'm all broken up.
Too bad the far stars are also the dimmest.
That may be but your piece is not any brighter.
On The Highways and Bi-Ways God Built
2009-02-10 17:49:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by FarStar
The Molecules of George’s Dance
George sat smoking on his time machine for hours
and when he was fully caveman he marvelled at all
the things he’d previously only glanced at. The forest
shnipp>, that it was just that he was dead
and dancing back into molecules, molecules that
became a part of the beetles and the coyotes and
the earth and the air.
-- too bad you couldn't have summed it up in 40 lines
at least we know how far you can read before fatigue sets in.

you're not cut out for this, vic. go back to poetry.com, that's more you're
speed, really.

most and always truly sincere,

GodBuilt
--
-----------------------------------------------
"I am a false prophet and God is a superstition.." "Again!"

There Will Be Blood
FarStar
2009-02-10 14:56:52 UTC
Permalink
most and always truly insincere,
GodBuilt
coprophiliac, tired of trying to butt rape me are you
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Subjugate the rhyme and rawk with the rhythm
Only got one line to balk all the schizm

SteepleJack Beer
http://www.lulu.com/content/5611390
msifg
2009-02-10 22:15:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by FarStar
most and always truly insincere,
GodBuilt
coprophiliac, tired of trying to butt rape me are you
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Subjugate the rhyme and rawk with the rhythm
Only got one line to balk all the schizm
SteepleJack Beer
http://www.lulu.com/content/5611390
i think i hear Tyler Durden calling:

1.. You don't talk about fight club.
2.. You don't talk about fight club.
3.. When someone says stop, or goes limp, even if he's just faking it, the
fight is over.
4.. Only two guys to a fight.
5.. One fight at a time.
6.. They fight without shirts or shoes.
7.. The fights go on as long as they have to.
8.. If this is your first night at fight club, you have to fight.
Will Dockery
2009-02-10 22:47:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by FarStar
most and always truly insincere,
GodBuilt
coprophiliac, tired of trying to butt rape me are you
Subjugate the rhyme and rawk with the rhythm
Only got one line to balk all the schizm
SteepleJack Beer
http://www.lulu.com/content/5611390
  1.. You don't talk about fight club.
  2.. You don't talk about fight club.
  3.. When someone says stop, or goes limp, even if he's just faking it, the
fight is over.
  4.. Only two guys to a fight.
  5.. One fight at a time.
  6.. They fight without shirts or shoes.
  7.. The fights go on as long as they have to.
  8.. If this is your first night at fight club, you have to fight.
That was a good movie.

I just sat through the first five "Rocky" films last week... the first
is a masterpiece, and the other four are at least entertaining, some
of the ultimate in Reagan-era nostalgia, along with Springsteen's
"Born in the USA" album... reminds me of when Reagan tried to make it
look like Springsteen supported him.

"Fight Club" similarly gives me the feel of that now long ago time of
the turn of the century, the last of the Clinton era blending with the
dawn of Bush II.

--
"The Ride (Combat Zone)" by Will Dockery-Dennis Beck:

On The Highways and Bi-Ways God Built
2009-02-10 22:59:25 UTC
Permalink
In article <6b7c384c-90e3-4e4d-aeec-***@l39g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
Will Dockery says...
Post by Will Dockery
Post by FarStar
most and always truly insincere,
GodBuilt
coprophiliac, tired of trying to butt rape me are you
Subjugate the rhyme and rawk with the rhythm
Only got one line to balk all the schizm
SteepleJack Beer
http://www.lulu.com/content/5611390
=A0 1.. You don't talk about fight club.
=A0 2.. You don't talk about fight club.
=A0 3.. When someone says stop, or goes limp, even if he's just faking it=
, the
fight is over.
=A0 4.. Only two guys to a fight.
=A0 5.. One fight at a time.
=A0 6.. They fight without shirts or shoes.
=A0 7.. The fights go on as long as they have to.
=A0 8.. If this is your first night at fight club, you have to fight.
That was a good movie.
I just sat through the first five "Rocky" films last week... the first
is a masterpiece,
hahahahahahahahahahahahaha...

please, crackery, you're killing anyone with more than three brain cells.

please keep the discussion in the areas you know about, like how to collect
welfare while collecting a wage and how to abandon your family, ok?

Rocky is a masterpiece? hahahahahahahahahahaha....

most sincerely,

GodBuilt
--
-----------------------------------------------
"I am a false prophet and God is a superstition.." "Again!"

There Will Be Blood
Will Dockery
2009-02-10 22:55:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by On The Highways and Bi-Ways God Built
please keep the discussion in the areas you know about,
Bet you wish you'd done that last year when you were proven wrong about the
Reagan-Springsteen connecten, am I right?
Post by On The Highways and Bi-Ways God Built
Rocky is a masterpiece? hahahahahahahahahahaha...
You don't agree?

--
"The Ride (Combat Zone)" by Will Dockery-Dennis Beck:
http://youtu.be/bxfl_7KvFcc
Dale Houstman
2009-02-10 23:17:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Will Dockery
Post by On The Highways and Bi-Ways God Built
please keep the discussion in the areas you know about,
Bet you wish you'd done that last year when you were proven wrong about the
Reagan-Springsteen connecten, am I right?
Post by On The Highways and Bi-Ways God Built
Rocky is a masterpiece? hahahahahahahahahahaha...
You don't agree?
Nobody who had seen (and actually watched with their brain on) would
think so: it is - at best - a mildly amusing example of a totally
commercial product, effective in its limited scope, and not even among
the top ten of great boxing films. You are welcome to like it by all
means - that's what entertainment is for. But to call it a "masterpiece"
only reveals that - as with poetry, as with prose, as with the visual
arts - you know nothing about the art of film that a average child of 10
doesn't know better.

dmh
On The Highways and Bi-Ways God Built
2009-02-10 23:52:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Will Dockery
Post by On The Highways and Bi-Ways God Built
please keep the discussion in the areas you know about,
Bet you wish you'd done that last year when you were proven wrong about the
Reagan-Springsteen connecten, am I right?
or connection even. well, whatever it is you're talking about.
Post by Will Dockery
Post by On The Highways and Bi-Ways God Built
Rocky is a masterpiece? hahahahahahahahahahaha...
You don't agree?
only someone who knows nothing of the art of film would call "Rocky" brilliant.
next your small mind will insist that Star Wars is one of the greatest movies
ever made.

why do you even mention the art of cinema, you don't know anything about the
subject. your ignorance of film art is Everest-like, to say the least. why do
you constantly insist on embarrassing yourself?

most sincerely,

GodBuilt
--
-----------------------------------------------
"I am a false prophet and God is a superstition.." "Again!"

There Will Be Blood
msifg
2009-02-10 23:45:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by msifg
Post by FarStar
most and always truly insincere,
GodBuilt
coprophiliac, tired of trying to butt rape me are you
Subjugate the rhyme and rawk with the rhythm
Only got one line to balk all the schizm
SteepleJack Beer
http://www.lulu.com/content/5611390
1.. You don't talk about fight club.
2.. You don't talk about fight club.
3.. When someone says stop, or goes limp, even if he's just faking it, the
fight is over.
4.. Only two guys to a fight.
5.. One fight at a time.
6.. They fight without shirts or shoes.
7.. The fights go on as long as they have to.
8.. If this is your first night at fight club, you have to fight.
That was a good movie.

I just sat through the first five "Rocky" films last week... the first
is a masterpiece, and the other four are at least entertaining, some
of the ultimate in Reagan-era nostalgia, along with Springsteen's
"Born in the USA" album... reminds me of when Reagan tried to make it
look like Springsteen supported him.

"Fight Club" similarly gives me the feel of that now long ago time of
the turn of the century, the last of the Clinton era blending with the
dawn of Bush II.

--
"The Ride (Combat Zone)" by Will Dockery-Dennis Beck:
http://youtu.be/bxfl_7KvFcc


written by and staring sylvester stallone.

one of my favorite movies of all time.

simply one of the best to ever hit the screen.

it's indisputably one of the finest boxing films
ever written.

of course, i hear dale rattling his cage.

remember, though-
he thinks jim Morrison is far from one of the
greatest lyricists in popular rock.

it's always important to check the source, huh?
On The Highways and Bi-Ways God Built
2009-02-10 23:58:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by msifg
written by and staring sylvester stallone.
when one thinks of great actors and screenwriters, Stallone is always first on
the list, right?
Post by msifg
one of my favorite movies of all time.
no shock there.
Post by msifg
simply one of the best to ever hit the screen.
how would you know?

did you ever see "Règle du jeu, La?"

if you have not, you don't know what you're talking about, sorry. i don't always
like smacking your sad little ass, shitty, but really, this time you deserve it.
because sometimes smacking you is like smacking around a pathetic little loser
(i've heard your comical songs, dude) on the playground.
Post by msifg
it's indisputably one of the finest boxing films
ever written.
your lack of knowledge knows no bounds.

but you're funny.

most sincerely,

GodBuilt
--
-----------------------------------------------
"I am a false prophet and God is a superstition.." "Again!"

There Will Be Blood
msifg
2009-02-11 00:12:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by On The Highways and Bi-Ways God Built
Post by msifg
written by and staring sylvester stallone.
when one thinks of great actors and screenwriters, Stallone is always first on
the list, right?
Post by msifg
one of my favorite movies of all time.
no shock there.
Post by msifg
simply one of the best to ever hit the screen.
how would you know?
did you ever see "Règle du jeu, La?"
if you have not, you don't know what you're talking about, sorry. i don't always
like smacking your sad little ass, shitty, but really, this time you deserve it.
because sometimes smacking you is like smacking around a pathetic little loser
(i've heard your comical songs, dude) on the playground.
Post by msifg
it's indisputably one of the finest boxing films
ever written.
your lack of knowledge knows no bounds.
but you're funny.
most sincerely,
GodBuilt
--
-----------------------------------------------
"I am a false prophet and God is a superstition.." "Again!"
There Will Be Blood
were you born mentally inept, or was it something
that was developed over time?

by all means, do the research yourself.

rocky is an undisputable masterpiece in film history
regarded as such by people much smarter than you and me.

get a life and stop kissing houstman's asshole.
On The Highways and Bi-Ways God Built
2009-02-11 02:54:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by msifg
Post by On The Highways and Bi-Ways God Built
Post by msifg
written by and staring sylvester stallone.
when one thinks of great actors and screenwriters, Stallone is always first on
the list, right?
Post by msifg
one of my favorite movies of all time.
no shock there.
Post by msifg
simply one of the best to ever hit the screen.
how would you know?
did you ever see "Règle du jeu, La?"
if you have not, you don't know what you're talking about, sorry. i don't always
like smacking your sad little ass, shitty, but really, this time you deserve it.
because sometimes smacking you is like smacking around a pathetic little loser
(i've heard your comical songs, dude) on the playground.
Post by msifg
it's indisputably one of the finest boxing films
ever written.
your lack of knowledge knows no bounds.
but you're funny.
most sincerely,
GodBuilt
--
-----------------------------------------------
"I am a false prophet and God is a superstition.." "Again!"
There Will Be Blood
were you born mentally inept, or was it something
that was developed over time?
you really don't have many friends, do you?
Post by msifg
by all means, do the research yourself.
i find that infinitely hilarious.
Post by msifg
rocky is an undisputable masterpiece in film history
regarded as such by people much smarter than you and me.
who, two friends and a sock puppet you call a friend?

Kubrick walked out of it. Peter Wollen, a real film scholar, not some clown on
some redneck TV station in Texas, thought it was too shallow to be believed,
David Thomson, someone i'm absolutely sure you've never heard of, called it part
of the decline of American cinema in the 70s (along with Star Wars, and he's
right). if you wish i can name many others.

DO name your sources, shitstain, i wish to have a good laugh. it will give me a
chance to make you look even more moronic.
Post by msifg
get a life and stop kissing houstman's asshole.
read a book and quit commenting on subjects you don't know anything about.

and i guess you've never seen "Règle du jeu, La." imagine my immense surprise.

most sincerely,

GodBuilt
--
-----------------------------------------------
"I am a false prophet and God is a superstition.." "Again!"

There Will Be Blood
msifg
2009-02-11 03:20:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by On The Highways and Bi-Ways God Built
Post by msifg
Post by On The Highways and Bi-Ways God Built
Post by msifg
written by and staring sylvester stallone.
when one thinks of great actors and screenwriters, Stallone is always first on
the list, right?
Post by msifg
one of my favorite movies of all time.
no shock there.
Post by msifg
simply one of the best to ever hit the screen.
how would you know?
did you ever see "Règle du jeu, La?"
if you have not, you don't know what you're talking about, sorry. i
don't
always
like smacking your sad little ass, shitty, but really, this time you deserve it.
because sometimes smacking you is like smacking around a pathetic little loser
(i've heard your comical songs, dude) on the playground.
Post by msifg
it's indisputably one of the finest boxing films
ever written.
your lack of knowledge knows no bounds.
but you're funny.
most sincerely,
GodBuilt
--
-----------------------------------------------
"I am a false prophet and God is a superstition.." "Again!"
There Will Be Blood
were you born mentally inept, or was it something
that was developed over time?
you really don't have many friends, do you?
Post by msifg
by all means, do the research yourself.
i find that infinitely hilarious.
Post by msifg
rocky is an undisputable masterpiece in film history
regarded as such by people much smarter than you and me.
who, two friends and a sock puppet you call a friend?
Kubrick walked out of it. Peter Wollen, a real film scholar, not some clown on
some redneck TV station in Texas, thought it was too shallow to be believed,
David Thomson, someone i'm absolutely sure you've never heard of, called it part
of the decline of American cinema in the 70s (along with Star Wars, and he's
right). if you wish i can name many others.
DO name your sources, shitstain, i wish to have a good laugh. it will give me a
chance to make you look even more moronic.
Post by msifg
get a life and stop kissing houstman's asshole.
read a book and quit commenting on subjects you don't know anything about.
and i guess you've never seen "Règle du jeu, La." imagine my immense surprise.
most sincerely,
GodBuilt
--
-----------------------------------------------
"I am a false prophet and God is a superstition.." "Again!"
There Will Be Blood
ok-
so your logic is that if those people didn't like
it, that means it's not a good film.

brilliant.

like i've said before:
you have the mentality of a bratty little
teenager talking smack and acting like
he knows everything.

i'm sure David Thompson would agree.

haha

Will Dockery
2009-02-11 00:01:44 UTC
Permalink
I just sat through the first five "Rocky" films last week... the first is a
masterpiece, and the other four are at least entertaining, some of the
ultimate in Reagan-era nostalgia, along with Springsteen's "Born in the USA"
album... reminds me of when Reagan tried to make it look like Springsteen
supported him.

I'm out of time for now, headed out the door to the Strutting Duck
performance over in Auburn, but here's a bit of history on the
Reagan-Springsteen connection, as I mentioned:

----
This is G o o g l e's cache of
http://www.cnn.com/2004/SHOWBIZ/06/16/reagan.80s/ as retrieved on Feb 4,
2008 12:12:41 GMT.

By Todd Leopold CNN
Wednesday, June 16, 2004 Posted: 1:28 PM EDT (1728 GMT)

(CNN) -- In the heart of his 1984 re-election campaign, Ronald Reagan made a
speech in Hammonton, New Jersey, and took the opportunity to invoke the name
of one of the Garden State's favorite sons.

"America's future rests in a thousand dreams inside our hearts," the
president said. "It rests in the message of hope in the songs of a man so
many young Americans admire: New Jersey's own Bruce Springsteen."

Reagan -- or his speechwriter -- was likely thinking of one song in
particular: "Born in the U.S.A.," the title cut from Springsteen's No. 1
album of the time. The song, with Max Weinberg's thunderous drums, Roy
Bittan's glittery keyboards and an anthemic chorus, was impossible to avoid
that year: "Born in the U.S.A., I was born in the U.S.A. ..."

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Born_in_the_U.S.A._(song)

In late August 1984, the Born in the U.S.A. album was selling very well, its
songs were all over the radio, and the associated tour was drawing
considerable press. Springsteen shows at the Capital Centre outside of
Washington, D.C. thus attracted even more media attention, in particular
from CBS Evening News correspondent Bernard Goldberg, who saw Springsteen as
a modern-day Horatio Alger story. Yet more notably, the widely-read,
bow-tied conservative columnist George Will, after attending a show,
published on September 13, 1984 a piece entitled "A Yankee Doodle
Springsteen" in which he praised Springsteen as an exemplar of classic
American values. He wrote: "I have not got a clue about Springsteen's

politics, if any, but flags get waved at his concerts while he sings songs
about hard times. He is no whiner, and the recitation of closed factories
and other problems always seems punctuated by a grand, cheerful affirmation:
'Born in the U.S.A.!'"[1] The 1984 presidential campaign was in full stride
at the time, and Will had connections to President Ronald Reagan's
re-election organization. Will thought that Springsteen might endorse
Reagan, and got the notion pushed up to high-level Reagan advisor Michael
Deaver's office. Those staffers made inquiries to Springsteen's management
which were politely rebuffed.

Nevertheless, on September 19, 1984, at a campaign stop in Hammonton, New
Jersey, Reagan added the following to his usual stump speech:

"America's future rests in a thousand dreams inside your hearts; it rests in
the message of hope in songs so many young Americans admire: New Jersey's
own Bruce Springsteen. And helping you make those dreams come true is what
this job of mine is all about."
The campaign press immediately expressed skepticism that Reagan knew
anything about Springsteen, and asked what his favorite Springsteen song
was; "Born to Run" was the tardy response from staffers. Johnny Carson then
joked on The Tonight Show, "If you believe that, I've got a couple of
tickets to the Mondale-Ferraro inaugural ball I'd like to sell you."


During a September 22 concert in Pittsburgh, Springsteen responded
negatively by introducing his song "Johnny 99", a song about an unemployed
auto worker who turns to murder, "The President was mentioning my name the
other day, and I kinda got to wondering what his favorite album musta been.
I don't think it was the Nebraska album. I don't think he's been listening
to this one."
--
"Ozone Stigmata", by Will Dockery & Henry Conley, guest mandolinist, Brian
Fowler:

http://youtu.be/bxfl_7KvFcc
On The Highways and Bi-Ways God Built
2009-02-10 22:55:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by FarStar
most and always truly insincere,
GodBuilt
coprophiliac, tired of trying to butt rape me are you
wow, vic, you sound excited. is this something you wish for someone to do to
you? i mean, sorry, i'm kind of busy getting paid to write while you continue to
write shit (which isn't my fault), but, ya know, i'm sure you can find what you
want if you look hard enough.

i'm sure even a guy with as fat a belly as you have can find someone who'd be
willing to do this to you, ya know? i wish you good luck in your search. um,
yeah, enjoy yourself.

most sincerely,

GodBuilt
--
-----------------------------------------------
"I am a false prophet and God is a superstition.." "Again!"

There Will Be Blood
Karla
2009-02-09 20:25:36 UTC
Permalink
In article <b62ef345-7ce2-46c4-ae96-***@a12g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
George Dance says...
Post by George Dance
V. Benediction
Nothing is changed by the risen sun
Why "risen" and not "rising"?

Is it now fixed?
Why do you need "itself"? Why such a didactic tone in the first two lines?

Why "retreats"? Is there a war between the sun and dark? Why the old fashioned
personification?
Post by George Dance
the land behind me skull-white to be green,
Why inject a "me" here? Is it needed? Why? What kind of a construction is
"skull-white to be green"? Is the "me" a prophet? It has a prophetic tone and
yet every five year old knows what happens once the sun comes out.
Post by George Dance
before, grey ocean to be vivid aqua,
Same prophetic tone about a mundane occurence.
Post by George Dance
all in motion, all at rest, all of it
particles in random chaos
become molecules in rigid stasis,
so much from void;
I truly think the above lines sounds like you're writing on acid or grass.
Post by George Dance
my eyes the very same
Same as what? At motion? At rest? The prophet is crazy? The prophet has seen the
void?
Post by George Dance
giving it all the beauty,
The speaker's eyes give it beauty? How? Isn't it the intellect (thought plus
feeling plus cultural/sociological conditioning) that gives it meaning?
Post by George Dance
my words the meaning,
Has the prophet spoken?
Post by George Dance
my hearing all the song. I am
the hub, the fixed point,
the still point without which there is no dance
and there is always the dance,
movement and stillness ever entwined,
now illuminated. Yet
Stoned or acid? Preachy as all hell though. The still point without which there
is no dance. Prove it? Or is it the "risen" sun? What reader won't laugh at that
knowing the science we know?
Post by George Dance
nothing is changed, no, nothing is new
Why is this telling line necessary? More drug recollections?
Post by George Dance
but a fresh breeze from the sea; while on the sea
Why do we need to know "while on the sea"? Would the next few lines be mystical
to us if we didn't know that? OMG, a ship charts course, churns blades in spume!
OMG maybe that's happening in my bathtub! Someone please tell me it's not true,
that it's happening while on the sea!
Post by George Dance
another ship charts course, churning
blades into spume, shearing
prow through breakers, curling
sheets of white water
around the mewing gulls.
If anything at all is worth keep in this drug memoir, maybe, and I mean, MAYBE,
it's the sheets of white water around the mewing gulls. The image, that is.

You may think I'm being hard on you, sarcastic for no reason, even trolling. But
I'm not. I'm telling you my truth as I read this. It's dreadful and
unenlightening.

Karla
--
--
FarStar
2009-02-09 13:54:04 UTC
Permalink
Karla wrote:

<fang snip>
Karla
usually constructive criticism comes before dissection, get with the program
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Subjugate the rhyme and rawk with the rhythm
Only got one line to balk all the schizm

SteepleJack Beer
http://www.lulu.com/content/5611390
Karla
2009-02-09 22:18:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by FarStar
<fang snip>
Karla
usually constructive criticism comes before dissection, get with the program
Do you dispute what I've written is criticism?

Are you suggesting that all criticism must always progress with 1) construction
and then 2) dissection?

If you haven't learned from what I've written, are you unable to dismiss it?

Where do you think the poem needs improvement?

Karla
--
--
FarStar
2009-02-09 15:39:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Karla
Post by FarStar
<fang snip>
Karla
Are you suggesting that all criticism must always progress with 1)
construction and then 2) dissection?
I think the corpse hadn't even been pronounced dead
and you were already into vivesection

and yes, constructive criticism helps with a helping of empathy
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Subjugate the rhyme and rawk with the rhythm
Only got one line to balk all the schizm

SteepleJack Beer
http://www.lulu.com/content/5611390
Karla
2009-02-09 22:52:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by FarStar
Post by Karla
Post by FarStar
<fang snip>
Karla
Are you suggesting that all criticism must always progress with 1)
construction and then 2) dissection?
I think the corpse hadn't even been pronounced dead
and you were already into vivesection
What's vivesection? New Jazz?

But wait! Doesn't vivisection require a living being? If I wait until the corpse
is dead (and I haven't actually encountered a corpse that wasn't so this is
getting otherworldly for me!), it wouldn't be vivesection [sic] would it?
Post by FarStar
and yes, constructive criticism helps with a helping of empathy
You write that like a real Absolutist! Gosh, so if I write a criticism like you
want me to and add enough empathy, you're absolutely sure that the author will
be helped? Your studied opinion is, the author hasn't improved because of my
lack of empathy?

Also, you snipped my other questions. Too tough for you? What? You think we
don't notice?

Karla
--
--
FarStar
2009-02-09 16:18:42 UTC
Permalink
you didn't refute any of my arguements
and your assuming the poet wants to emulate you
at every juncture of going out of your way to enlighten him to error of his
ways
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Subjugate the rhyme and rawk with the rhythm
Only got one line to balk all the schizm

SteepleJack Beer
http://www.lulu.com/content/5611390
Karla
2009-02-10 00:13:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by FarStar
you didn't refute any of my arguements
Au contraire, you didn't convince regarding criticism's necessary progression.
Post by FarStar
and your assuming the poet wants to emulate you
Where? In what statement? Never anywhere am I assuming that. I'm commenting on
what I read. Not on the poet's desire to be like or unlike me. Prove me wrong.
Post by FarStar
at every juncture of going out of your way to enlighten him to error of his
ways
Indeed, I see errors in his writing and comment on those. I don't make up errors
that I don't see.

Karla
--
--
George Dance
2009-02-10 01:48:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Karla
Post by FarStar
you didn't refute any of my arguements
Au contraire, you didn't convince regarding criticism's necessary progression.
Post by FarStar
and your assuming the poet wants to emulate you
Where? In what statement? Never anywhere am I assuming that. I'm commenting on
what I read. Not on the poet's desire to be like or unlike me. Prove me wrong.
Post by FarStar
at every juncture of going out of your way to enlighten him to error of his
ways
Indeed, I see errors in his writing and comment on those.
You didn't mention "errors" in your comments to me. You told me a lot
of things you didn't like -- parts of it were preachy, the speaker
sounded stoned or crazy, etc. But you didn't say or show why those
were 'errors' (as opposed, say, to dislikes).

Can you tell me which ones you thought were "errors," and why?
Post by Karla
I don't make up errors
that I don't see.
Fair enough. So tell me about the ones you do see.
Post by Karla
Karla
--
--
Karla
2009-02-10 02:00:03 UTC
Permalink
In article <cdd1c3d5-c64e-4d64-a948-***@h5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,
George Dance says...
Post by George Dance
..
Post by FarStar
you didn't refute any of my arguements
Au contraire, you didn't convince regarding criticism's necessary progres=
sion.
Post by FarStar
and your assuming the poet wants to emulate you
Where? In what statement? Never anywhere am I assuming that. I'm commenti=
ng on
what I read. Not on the poet's desire to be like or unlike me. Prove me w=
rong.
Post by FarStar
at every juncture of going out of your way to enlighten him to error of =
his
Post by FarStar
ways
Indeed, I see errors in his writing and comment on those.
You didn't mention "errors" in your comments to me. You told me a lot
of things you didn't like -- parts of it were preachy, the speaker
sounded stoned or crazy, etc. But you didn't say or show why those
were 'errors' (as opposed, say, to dislikes).
Can you tell me which ones you thought were "errors," and why?
I don't make up errors
that I don't see.
Fair enough. So tell me about the ones you do see.
"Errors" was FarStar's word and he was suggesting that I intended many things I
did not intend. If there are errors in someone's WRITING I will challenge those.
In this piece, I did challenge your whole risen / rising at the beginning
because it's inaccurate. Others have pointed that out too. I don't have the
whole poem here but I'm sure I pointed out incongruent parts or inconsistent
parts. Error sounds like a math score. As I recall it, the only thing close to
right/wrong answer is the sun risen vs. rising. Especially if the dark is only
retreating. It boggles any other way OR the writing is very immature.

Karla
Post by George Dance
Karla
--
--
--
--
George Dance
2009-02-10 02:33:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Karla
George Dance says...
Post by George Dance
..
Post by FarStar
you didn't refute any of my arguements
Au contraire, you didn't convince regarding criticism's necessary progres=
sion.
Post by FarStar
and your assuming the poet wants to emulate you
Where? In what statement? Never anywhere am I assuming that. I'm commenti=
ng on
what I read. Not on the poet's desire to be like or unlike me. Prove me w=
rong.
Post by FarStar
at every juncture of going out of your way to enlighten him to error of =
his
Post by FarStar
ways
Indeed, I see errors in his writing and comment on those.
You didn't mention "errors" in your comments to me. You told me a lot
of things you didn't like -- parts of it were preachy, the speaker
sounded stoned or crazy, etc. But you didn't say or show why those
were 'errors' (as opposed, say, to dislikes).
Can you tell me which ones you thought were "errors," and why?
I don't make up errors
that I don't see.
Fair enough. So tell me about the ones you do see.
"Errors" was FarStar's word and he was suggesting that I intended many things I
did not intend. If there are errors in someone's WRITING I will challenge those.
In this piece, I did challenge your whole risen / rising at the beginning
because it's inaccurate.
It would be inaccurate if someone wants this to be a poem about the
sunrise. But it isn't; and thinking that it is gives rise to all sorts
of nonsense, as we've seen on this thread -- so I wanted to make clear
it wasn't.
Post by Karla
Others have pointed that out too.
Actually, you're the only person who commented on "risen sun." In the
earlier c&c, it read "rising sun," just as you suggested. From that,
one person got the idea Benediction was about "sunrise adding color to
the things of darkness" (which assumes the strange idea that the land
is white in dark). That in turn prompted another to read it as saying
the sunrise turned the grass white and then green. That's the nonsense
I was talking about, which came from using your suggestion; so I
won't.
Post by Karla
I don't have the
whole poem here but I'm sure I pointed out incongruent parts or inconsistent
parts.
You didn't like at least one of the paradoxes: "at motion" and "at
rest". Paradoxes aren't supposed to appear logically consistent.
Post by Karla
Error sounds like a math score. As I recall it, the only thing close to
right/wrong answer is the sun risen vs. rising.
Especially if the dark is only
retreating.
I have been thinking about LL1-2 since I read your critique, and
decided to revise to:

Nothing was changed by the risen sun
itself, yet all is enlightened since darkness fled;

That restores darkness, keeps enlightened in the present tense, and
gets rid of the apprehended personification in 'retreats'; and, as
well (I fervently hope) finally disposes of the idea that this is a
poem about the sunrise.

So your criticisms have been helpful to me; and I'll thank you agin.






It boggles any other way OR the writing is very immature.
Post by Karla
Karla
Post by George Dance
Karla
--
--
--
--
On The Highways and Bi-Ways God Built
2009-02-10 17:34:43 UTC
Permalink
In article <b23cab7a-c327-4c7b-aa08-***@m40g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,
George Dance says...
com>,
Post by Karla
George Dance says...
ys.=3D
Post by Karla
Post by George Dance
..
Post by FarStar
you didn't refute any of my arguements
Au contraire, you didn't convince regarding criticism's necessary prog=
res=3D
Post by Karla
Post by George Dance
sion.
Post by FarStar
and your assuming the poet wants to emulate you
Where? In what statement? Never anywhere am I assuming that. I'm comme=
nti=3D
Post by Karla
Post by George Dance
ng on
what I read. Not on the poet's desire to be like or unlike me. Prove m=
e w=3D
Post by Karla
Post by George Dance
rong.
Post by FarStar
at every juncture of going out of your way to enlighten him to error =
of =3D
Post by Karla
Post by George Dance
his
Post by FarStar
ways
Indeed, I see errors in his writing and comment on those.
You didn't mention "errors" in your comments to me. You told me a lot
of things you didn't like -- parts of it were preachy, the speaker
sounded stoned or crazy, etc. But you didn't say or show why those
were 'errors' (as opposed, say, to dislikes).
Can you tell me which ones you thought were "errors," and why?
I don't make up errors
that I don't see.
Fair enough. So tell me about the ones you do see.
"Errors" was FarStar's word and he was suggesting that I intended many th=
ings I
Post by Karla
did not intend. If there are errors in someone's WRITING I will challenge=
those.
Post by Karla
In this piece, I did challenge your whole risen / rising at the beginning
because it's inaccurate.
It would be inaccurate if someone wants this to be a poem about the
sunrise. But it isn't; and thinking that it is gives rise to all sorts
of nonsense, as we've seen on this thread -- so I wanted to make clear
it wasn't.
Post by Karla
Others have pointed that out too.
Actually, you're the only person who commented on "risen sun." In the
earlier c&c, it read "rising sun," just as you suggested. From that,
one person got the idea Benediction was about "sunrise adding color to
the things of darkness" (which assumes the strange idea that the land
is white in dark). That in turn prompted another to read it as saying
the sunrise turned the grass white and then green. That's the nonsense
I was talking about, which came from using your suggestion; so I
won't.
Post by Karla
I don't have the
whole poem here but I'm sure I pointed out incongruent parts or inconsist=
ent
Post by Karla
parts.
You didn't like at least one of the paradoxes: "at motion" and "at
rest". Paradoxes aren't supposed to appear logically consistent.
Post by Karla
Error sounds like a math score. As I recall it, the only thing close to
right/wrong answer is the sun risen vs. rising.
Especially if the dark is only
retreating.
I have been thinking about LL1-2 since I read your critique, and
Nothing was changed by the risen sun
itself, yet all is enlightened since darkness fled;
That restores darkness, keeps enlightened in the present tense, and
gets rid of the apprehended personification in 'retreats'; and, as
well (I fervently hope) finally disposes of the idea that this is a
poem about the sunrise.
So your criticisms have been helpful to me; and I'll thank you agin.
didn't Maughan say if you have to spend this much time defending your poem, it's
probably shit?

him or Pete.

most sincerely,

GodBuilt
--
-----------------------------------------------
"I am a false prophet and God is a superstition.." "Again!"

There Will Be Blood
George Dance
2009-02-11 01:17:17 UTC
Permalink
On Feb 10, 12:34 pm, On The Highways and Bi-Ways God Built
Post by Karla
George Dance says...
com>,
Post by Karla
George Dance says...
ys.=3D
Post by Karla
Post by George Dance
..
Post by FarStar
you didn't refute any of my arguements
Au contraire, you didn't convince regarding criticism's necessary prog=
res=3D
Post by Karla
Post by George Dance
sion.
Post by FarStar
and your assuming the poet wants to emulate you
Where? In what statement? Never anywhere am I assuming that. I'm comme=
nti=3D
Post by Karla
Post by George Dance
ng on
what I read. Not on the poet's desire to be like or unlike me. Prove m=
e w=3D
Post by Karla
Post by George Dance
rong.
Post by FarStar
at every juncture of going out of your way to enlighten him to error =
of =3D
Post by Karla
Post by George Dance
his
Post by FarStar
ways
Indeed, I see errors in his writing and comment on those.
You didn't mention "errors" in your comments to me. You told me a lot
of things you didn't like -- parts of it were preachy, the speaker
sounded stoned or crazy, etc. But you didn't say or show why those
were 'errors' (as opposed, say, to dislikes).
Can you tell me which ones you thought were "errors," and why?
I don't make up errors
that I don't see.
Fair enough. So tell me about the ones you do see.
"Errors" was FarStar's word and he was suggesting that I intended many th=
ings I
Post by Karla
did not intend. If there are errors in someone's WRITING I will challenge=
those.
Post by Karla
In this piece, I did challenge your whole risen / rising at the beginning
because it's inaccurate.
It would be inaccurate if someone wants this to be a poem about the
sunrise. But it isn't; and thinking that it is gives rise to all sorts
of nonsense, as we've seen on this thread -- so I wanted to make clear
it wasn't.
Post by Karla
Others have pointed that out too.
Actually, you're the only person who commented on "risen sun." In the
earlier c&c, it read "rising sun," just as you suggested. From that,
one person got the idea Benediction was about "sunrise adding color to
the things of darkness" (which assumes the strange idea that the land
is white in dark). That in turn prompted another to read it as saying
the sunrise turned the grass white and then green. That's the nonsense
I was talking about, which came from using your suggestion; so I
won't.
Post by Karla
I don't have the
whole poem here but I'm sure I pointed out incongruent parts or inconsist=
ent
Post by Karla
parts.
You didn't like at least one of the paradoxes: "at motion" and "at
rest". Paradoxes aren't supposed to appear logically consistent.
Post by Karla
Error sounds like a math score. As I recall it, the only thing close to
right/wrong answer is the sun risen vs. rising.
Especially if the dark is only
retreating.
I have been thinking about LL1-2 since I read your critique, and
Nothing was changed by the risen sun
itself, yet all is enlightened since darkness fled;
That restores darkness, keeps enlightened in the present tense, and
gets rid of the apprehended personification in 'retreats'; and, as
well (I fervently hope) finally disposes of the idea that this is a
poem about the sunrise.
So your criticisms have been helpful to me; and I'll thank you agin.
didn't Maughan say if you have to spend this much time defending your poem, it's
probably shit?
him or Pete.
... or possibly Orsen Wells, or maybe even you. Someone who hadn't
read the poem and was losing the argument, anyway.
FarStar
2009-02-09 15:58:59 UTC
Permalink
They don't want to be perfect
They want to better
They don't want to second-guess
They want to chose their words more wisely

What you're forcing on them is to go back to beginning
and look at every syntax and semantic
Your just wasting their time and yours as all 'I' would want is where it fits
in with the principles that I value and if I have a question I can go ahead
and ask. Your not trusting who they've become in the art.
Thus the constructive criticism first and the dissection later
as they may rather just write something else entirely and don't even like
the subject matter
And furthermore, when doing so, it's easier to keep in mind a mindset
than a laundry list of specific syntaxii and semantic examples which is soon
lost unless constantly referred or you have some miracle brain that allows
you to slide the effort bar into calibration, and even then what have you
posted? how do we know we even value your opinion? Truth is as much reliant
upon my opinion of relativity as it is on some platonic form




-------------------------------------------------------------------

Subjugate the rhyme and rawk with the rhythm
Only got one line to balk all the schizm

SteepleJack Beer
http://www.lulu.com/content/5611390
Karla
2009-02-10 00:09:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by FarStar
They don't want to be perfect
They want to better
What's the relationship between "better" and "perfect"?
Post by FarStar
They don't want to second-guess
They want to chose their words more wisely
What is the relationship between "second-guess" and choosing words more wisley?
Post by FarStar
What you're forcing on them is to go back to beginning
and look at every syntax and semantic
Whoa dude! Am not. They can read my criticism then dismiss, adopt, reject,
re-think, contemplate, vomit, spew, hallucinate, amend, project, advance,
implicate, defend, deride, obfuscate, derange, opine, revise, evolve, dismiss,
determine, self-medicate, question, weep, absolve, emerge, clarify, etc. Right?
Post by FarStar
Your just wasting their time and yours as all 'I' would want is where it fits
in with the principles that I value and if I have a question I can go ahead
and ask. Your not trusting who they've become in the art.
Whoa again there dude. Yes, indeed, you can go ahead and ask. Or not. No
handcuffs or silencers or mufflers here. And it's not about "they" in the art.
It's the words on the page. Get over anything else.
Post by FarStar
Thus the constructive criticism first and the dissection later
as they may rather just write something else entirely and don't even like
the subject matter
George should be glad ass happy I'm even commenting. Same goes for anyone who
gives him a second of time to address the words on the page. And it's my
unrepentant opinion that George is running head long into four lanes of commuter
traffic with that poem, Benediction. I will not tarry to be nice. It's surely in
danger.
Post by FarStar
And furthermore, when doing so, it's easier to keep in mind a mindset
than a laundry list of specific syntaxii and semantic examples which is soon
lost unless constantly referred or you have some miracle brain that allows
you to slide the effort bar into calibration,
Whoa dude! Speak for yourself. It's easier for you to keep in mind a mindset.
Get it? Don't speak for me or George or anyone else.
Post by FarStar
and even then what have you
posted? how do we know we even value your opinion?
Who is this "we"? If you don't know if you value my opinion or not, may I
suggest you look to what I've written and leave off guessing about me? If you
consider what I've written to be tripe, dismiss, Dude. Ignore it. Go play
Canasta! Go read up on JFK's assassination! Go read someone's opinion you do
value. I would not waste time on my opinion if it didn't work for you.
Post by FarStar
Truth is as much reliant
upon my opinion of relativity as it is on some platonic form
There's truth and there's opinion. Which have I claimed to have written?

Karla
Post by FarStar
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Subjugate the rhyme and rawk with the rhythm
Only got one line to balk all the schizm
SteepleJack Beer
http://www.lulu.com/content/5611390
--
--
msifg
2009-02-10 00:18:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Karla
Post by FarStar
They don't want to be perfect
They want to better
What's the relationship between "better" and "perfect"?
Post by FarStar
They don't want to second-guess
They want to chose their words more wisely
What is the relationship between "second-guess" and choosing words more wisley?
Post by FarStar
What you're forcing on them is to go back to beginning
and look at every syntax and semantic
Whoa dude! Am not. They can read my criticism then dismiss, adopt, reject,
re-think, contemplate, vomit, spew, hallucinate, amend, project, advance,
implicate, defend, deride, obfuscate, derange, opine, revise, evolve, dismiss,
determine, self-medicate, question, weep, absolve, emerge, clarify, etc. Right?
Post by FarStar
Your just wasting their time and yours as all 'I' would want is where it fits
in with the principles that I value and if I have a question I can go ahead
and ask. Your not trusting who they've become in the art.
Whoa again there dude. Yes, indeed, you can go ahead and ask. Or not. No
handcuffs or silencers or mufflers here. And it's not about "they" in the art.
It's the words on the page. Get over anything else.
Post by FarStar
Thus the constructive criticism first and the dissection later
as they may rather just write something else entirely and don't even like
the subject matter
George should be glad ass happy I'm even commenting. Same goes for anyone who
gives him a second of time to address the words on the page. And it's my
unrepentant opinion that George is running head long into four lanes of commuter
traffic with that poem, Benediction. I will not tarry to be nice. It's surely in
danger.
Post by FarStar
And furthermore, when doing so, it's easier to keep in mind a mindset
than a laundry list of specific syntaxii and semantic examples which is soon
lost unless constantly referred or you have some miracle brain that allows
you to slide the effort bar into calibration,
Whoa dude! Speak for yourself. It's easier for you to keep in mind a mindset.
Get it? Don't speak for me or George or anyone else.
Post by FarStar
and even then what have you
posted? how do we know we even value your opinion?
Who is this "we"? If you don't know if you value my opinion or not, may I
suggest you look to what I've written and leave off guessing about me? If you
consider what I've written to be tripe, dismiss, Dude. Ignore it. Go play
Canasta! Go read up on JFK's assassination! Go read someone's opinion you do
value. I would not waste time on my opinion if it didn't work for you.
Post by FarStar
Truth is as much reliant
upon my opinion of relativity as it is on some platonic form
There's truth and there's opinion. Which have I claimed to have written?
Karla
Post by FarStar
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Subjugate the rhyme and rawk with the rhythm
Only got one line to balk all the schizm
SteepleJack Beer
http://www.lulu.com/content/5611390
--
--
lie,
cheat,
steal.

lie,
cheat,
steal.

lie,
cheat,
steal.

....
George Dance
2009-02-10 01:09:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Karla
George Dance says...
Let me say up front, Karla: Thank you for reading and commenting.
Since I have an idea already that we'll disagree on a few things, I'll
be quiet except for answering any questions you ask.
Post by Karla
Post by George Dance
V. Benediction
Nothing is changed by the risen sun
Why "risen" and not "rising"?
That came up earlier in the thread; a couple of people thought it was
a poem about the sunrise, and that led to some confusion about whether
the sun was making the grass turn white, or turn from white to green.
So I changed "rising" to "risen" to make clear it's not; here the sun
is already up.
Post by Karla
Is it now fixed?
IMO, yes. I also considered changing 'is' to 'was', but that meant I'd
have to change 'retreats' in later to 'retreated'; so I left that
alone. I might revise later and put those in the past tense.
Post by Karla
Why do you need "itself"? Why such a didactic tone in the first two lines?
I don't really know where "itself" came from; it's been in since the
beginning. 36 years ago, when I started writing this, I was
frantically reading all the poetry I could find in search of
inspiration, and copped a few lines; this L1 may have been copped.
I've left it in because I've tried reading it aloud with 'itself' both
in and out, and prefer the former.
Post by Karla
Why "retreats"?
In an earlier part (this is part V in a series) I had "darkness
hovers, nearer". It's 'dark' rather than 'darkness' here, again, just
because the line sounds better out loud that way, but this image is
meant to complement that earlier one.
Post by Karla
Is there a war between the sun and dark?
Not in this.
Post by Karla
Why the old fashioned
personification?
I can't see that I'm personifying the sun. I could substitute
something for 'retreats', I suppose, if that sounds like I'm
personifying the dark. I'll look at some alternatives, and see if
there's one I think works with 'hovers' better.
Post by Karla
Post by George Dance
the land behind me skull-white to be green,
Why inject a "me" here? Is it needed? Why?
The speaker is talking about himself. In the first two lines, he says
there's been enlightenment; now he's telling us who's been
enlightened; then later he'll talk about how he's been enlightened.
Post by Karla
What kind of a construction is
"skull-white to be green"?
An adjective phrase, modifying "land."
Post by Karla
Is the "me" a prophet?
He certainly feels himself enlightened. Whether he is, to a reader,
depends on what the reader thinks about his enlightenment, of course.
Post by Karla
It has a prophetic tone and
yet every five year old knows what happens once the sun comes out.
Post by George Dance
before, grey ocean to be vivid aqua,
Same prophetic tone about a mundane occurence.
Post by George Dance
all in motion, all at rest, all of it
particles in random chaos
become molecules in rigid stasis,
so much from void;
I truly think the above lines sounds like you're writing on acid or grass.
Post by George Dance
my eyes the very same
Same as what?
As "all of it" -- his eyes are atoms, particles, at motion, at rest,
matter from void -- just like the land and sea. And "eyes" is meant to
be a synecdoche for his body; some will get that, some won't.
Post by Karla
At motion? At rest?
Yes.
Post by Karla
The prophet is crazy?
Or on drugs, as you suggested. Each reader can decide that for her- or
himself.
Post by Karla
The prophet has seen the
void?
... et al; that's possible too.
Post by Karla
Post by George Dance
giving it all the beauty,
The speaker's eyes give it beauty? How?
The land and sea wouldn't be beautiful if there was no one to think it
was beautiful.
Post by Karla
Isn't it the intellect (thought plus
feeling plus cultural/sociological conditioning) that gives it meaning?
Yeah; that's my next line: "My words the meaning,".
Post by Karla
Post by George Dance
my words the meaning,
Has the prophet spoken?
He could be saying all this; or he could be just thinking it in words.
I don't think it makes any difference.
Post by Karla
Post by George Dance
my hearing all the song. I am
the hub, the fixed point,
the still point without which there is no dance
and there is always the dance,
movement and stillness ever entwined,
now illuminated. Yet
Stoned or acid?
That's a possibility.
Post by Karla
Preachy as all hell though. The still point without which there
is no dance. Prove it?
Prove it? It's a quote, which I put in because of who wrote it and the
pun on 'dance'. What's there to prove?
Post by Karla
Or is it the "risen" sun?
Or is *what* the "risen" sun?
Post by Karla
What reader won't laugh at that
knowing the science we know?
Laugh at what?
Post by Karla
Post by George Dance
nothing is changed, no, nothing is new
Why is this telling line necessary?
I'm pretty sure that was a line I did cop. From, IIRC, Louis Dudek,
but that could well be wrong. I do remember the line, though: "Nothing
is changed, no, nothing at all". I liked the way that read, and
thought it did what I wanted it to do (return to the thought of L1)
quite nicely.



More drug recollections?
I really don't think that line sounded stoned. 8)
Post by Karla
Post by George Dance
but a fresh breeze from the sea; while on the sea
Why do we need to know "while on the sea"? Would the next few lines be mystical
to us if we didn't know that? OMG, a ship charts course, churns blades in spume!
OMG maybe that's happening in my bathtub! Someone please tell me it's not true,
that it's happening while on the sea!
Post by George Dance
another ship charts course, churning
blades into spume, shearing
prow through breakers, curling
sheets of white water
around the mewing gulls.
If anything at all is worth keep in this drug memoir, maybe, and I mean, MAYBE,
it's the sheets of white water around the mewing gulls. The image, that is.
You may think I'm being hard on you, sarcastic for no reason, even trolling. But
I'm not. I'm telling you my truth as I read this. It's dreadful and
unenlightening.
Karla
--
--
George Dance
2009-02-10 01:44:38 UTC
Permalink
On Feb 9, 3:25 pm, Karla <***@NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote:


Sorry, I missed your last questions.
Post by Karla
Post by George Dance
but a fresh breeze from the sea; while on the sea
Why do we need to know "while on the sea"?
Think of that line as a stage direction. It's saying that the speaker
has stopped thinking or experiencing his illumination, and is now
sensing (feeling the breeze and looking at the sea; and, later,
hearing the gulls).
Post by Karla
Would the next few lines be mystical
to us if we didn't know that?
Not something I've thought about.
Post by Karla
OMG, a ship charts course, churns blades in spume!
OMG maybe that's happening in my bathtub! Someone please tell me it's not true,
that it's happening while on the sea!
Post by George Dance
another ship charts course, churning
blades into spume, shearing
prow through breakers, curling
sheets of white water
around the mewing gulls.
If anything at all is worth keep in this drug memoir, maybe, and I mean, MAYBE,
it's the sheets of white water around the mewing gulls. The image, that is.
You may think I'm being hard on you, sarcastic for no reason, even trolling. But
I'm not. I'm telling you my truth as I read this. It's dreadful and
unenlightening.
Karla
--
--
Manwolf
2009-02-08 08:33:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rob Evans
Less quacks and less ridiculous pseudonym are the next steps to total
recovery.
Rob
Here's something positive for you to contemplate: all of your stupid,
unfunny one-line quips amount to nothing here, not even passing humor.
While it may offer you some temporary satisfaction on occasion, you
should consider the more long-term implications of embodying a bitter
shriveled up persona that has nothing to say except talk of other's
"quacking". May you one day look in the mirror and discover the true
source of the quack, and may it set you free.
Rob Evans
2009-02-08 10:49:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Manwolf
Post by Rob Evans
Less quacks and less ridiculous pseudonym are the next steps to total
recovery.
Rob
Here's something positive for you to contemplate: all of your stupid,
unfunny one-line quips amount to nothing here, not even passing humor.
While it may offer you some temporary satisfaction on occasion, you should
consider the more long-term implications of embodying a bitter shriveled
up persona that has nothing to say except talk of other's "quacking". May
you one day look in the mirror and discover the true source of the quack,
and may it set you free.
And here's something for you to contemplate. You wouldn't know funny if it
sniffed your tail - you call yourself Manwolf for chrissake. If you wannabe
a dog, stop acting like a Duck. THAT's funny.

Rob
--
Rob Evans
-----------
When I see a man-dog
I reach for 45-calibre worm tablets


--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
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FarStar
2009-02-08 11:57:47 UTC
Permalink
mercy snipped<
nope, sniffing isn't really funny, it's kind of stuck up
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Subjugate the rhyme and rawk with the rhythm
Only got one line to balk all the schizm

SteepleJack Beer
http://www.lulu.com/content/5611390
George Dance
2009-02-08 15:00:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by FarStar
mercy snipped<
nope, sniffing isn't really funny, it's kind of stuck up
Then that would make it perfect vocation for our Robbie, wouldn't it?
Post by FarStar
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Subjugate the rhyme and rawk with the rhythm
Only got one line to balk all the schizm
SteepleJack Beerhttp://www.lulu.com/content/5611390
Manwolf
2009-02-08 21:58:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rob Evans
Post by Manwolf
Post by Rob Evans
Less quacks and less ridiculous pseudonym are the next steps to total
recovery.
Rob
Here's something positive for you to contemplate: all of your stupid,
unfunny one-line quips amount to nothing here, not even passing humor.
While it may offer you some temporary satisfaction on occasion, you
should consider the more long-term implications of embodying a bitter
shriveled up persona that has nothing to say except talk of other's
"quacking". May you one day look in the mirror and discover the true
source of the quack, and may it set you free.
And here's something for you to contemplate. You wouldn't know funny if
it sniffed your tail -
Now that's deep.
Post by Rob Evans
you call yourself Manwolf for chrissake.
Ever consider it might have something to do with my given Indian name,
or the fact I was born in Alaska and raised by wolves?
Post by Rob Evans
If you
wannabe a dog, stop acting like a Duck. THAT's funny.
No, isn't. Really. Tirelessly using the word duck or quack in mundane
ways is not humor. But I'm glad you can amuse at least yourself with
your very vacant sense of humor that you bring to the mix.
George Dance
2009-02-09 02:40:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Manwolf
Post by Manwolf
If you
wannabe a dog, stop acting like a Duck.  THAT's funny.
No, isn't. Really.
As I've said before: Rob considers himself a wit, but he's only half
right.
Rob Evans
2009-02-09 13:26:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Manwolf
Post by Rob Evans
Post by Manwolf
Post by Rob Evans
Less quacks and less ridiculous pseudonym are the next steps to total
recovery.
Rob
Here's something positive for you to contemplate: all of your stupid,
unfunny one-line quips amount to nothing here, not even passing humor.
While it may offer you some temporary satisfaction on occasion, you
should consider the more long-term implications of embodying a bitter
shriveled up persona that has nothing to say except talk of other's
"quacking". May you one day look in the mirror and discover the true
source of the quack, and may it set you free.
And here's something for you to contemplate. You wouldn't know funny if
it sniffed your tail -
Now that's deep.
Post by Rob Evans
you call yourself Manwolf for chrissake.
Ever consider it might have something to do with my given Indian name, or
the fact I was born in Alaska and raised by wolves?
Post by Rob Evans
If you wannabe a dog, stop acting like a Duck. THAT's funny.
No, isn't. Really.
Yes it is, really.

But not half so funny as "or the fact I was born in Alaska and raised by
wolves".

You sad, sad pooch.

Rob
--
Rob Evans
-----------
When I see a swine,
I reach for 45-calibre pearls


--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
------->>>>>>http://www.NewsDemon.com<<<<<<------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access
George Dance
2009-02-09 14:34:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rob Evans
Post by Manwolf
Post by Manwolf
Post by Rob Evans
Less quacks and less ridiculous pseudonym are the next steps to total
recovery.
Rob
Here's something positive for you to contemplate: all of your stupid,
unfunny one-line quips amount to nothing here, not even passing humor.
While it may offer you some temporary satisfaction on occasion, you
should consider the more long-term implications of embodying a bitter
shriveled up persona that has nothing to say except talk of other's
"quacking". May you one day look in the mirror and discover the true
source of the quack, and may it set you free.
And here's something for you to contemplate.  You wouldn't know funny if
it sniffed your tail -
Now that's deep.
you call yourself Manwolf for chrissake.
Ever consider it might have something to do with my given Indian name, or
the fact I was born in Alaska and raised by wolves?
If you wannabe a dog, stop acting like a Duck.  THAT's funny.
No, isn't. Really.
Yes it is, really.
But not half so funny as "or the fact I was born in Alaska and raised by
wolves".
You sad, sad pooch.
??? You just admitted his lines were twice as funny as yours.
Manwolf
2009-02-09 19:32:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Dance
Post by Rob Evans
Post by Manwolf
Post by Rob Evans
Post by Manwolf
Post by Rob Evans
Less quacks and less ridiculous pseudonym are the next steps to total
recovery.
Rob
Here's something positive for you to contemplate: all of your stupid,
unfunny one-line quips amount to nothing here, not even passing humor.
While it may offer you some temporary satisfaction on occasion, you
should consider the more long-term implications of embodying a bitter
shriveled up persona that has nothing to say except talk of other's
"quacking". May you one day look in the mirror and discover the true
source of the quack, and may it set you free.
And here's something for you to contemplate. You wouldn't know funny if
it sniffed your tail -
Now that's deep.
Post by Rob Evans
you call yourself Manwolf for chrissake.
Ever consider it might have something to do with my given Indian name, or
the fact I was born in Alaska and raised by wolves?
Post by Rob Evans
If you wannabe a dog, stop acting like a Duck. THAT's funny.
No, isn't. Really.
Yes it is, really.
But not half so funny as "or the fact I was born in Alaska and raised by
wolves".
You sad, sad pooch.
??? You just admitted his lines were twice as funny as yours.
It was a Freudian slip. It's something he would most likely never admit
consciously, even though his subconscious tells him so.
Rob Evans
2009-02-10 08:08:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Manwolf
Post by George Dance
Post by Rob Evans
Post by Manwolf
Post by Rob Evans
Post by Manwolf
Post by Rob Evans
Less quacks and less ridiculous pseudonym are the next steps to total
recovery.
Rob
Here's something positive for you to contemplate: all of your stupid,
unfunny one-line quips amount to nothing here, not even passing humor.
While it may offer you some temporary satisfaction on occasion, you
should consider the more long-term implications of embodying a bitter
shriveled up persona that has nothing to say except talk of other's
"quacking". May you one day look in the mirror and discover the true
source of the quack, and may it set you free.
And here's something for you to contemplate. You wouldn't know funny if
it sniffed your tail -
Now that's deep.
Post by Rob Evans
you call yourself Manwolf for chrissake.
Ever consider it might have something to do with my given Indian name, or
the fact I was born in Alaska and raised by wolves?
Post by Rob Evans
If you wannabe a dog, stop acting like a Duck. THAT's funny.
No, isn't. Really.
Yes it is, really.
But not half so funny as "or the fact I was born in Alaska and raised by
wolves".
You sad, sad pooch.
??? You just admitted his lines were twice as funny as yours.
It was a Freudian slip. It's something he would most likely never admit
consciously, even though his subconscious tells him so.
Not a slip at all. You are immensely funny. Your problem is that it all
quite unintentional. You, like daft George, provoke laughter when you crave
to be considered as serious.

Rob
--
Rob Evans
-----------
When I see a swine,
I reach for 45-calibre pearls


--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
------->>>>>>http://www.NewsDemon.com<<<<<<------
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FarStar
2009-02-10 01:54:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rob Evans
quite unintentional. You, like daft George, provoke laughter when you
crave to be considered as serious.
Rob
probably just treated with a modicum of respect,
fuck for brains
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Subjugate the rhyme and rawk with the rhythm
Only got one line to balk all the schizm

SteepleJack Beer
http://www.lulu.com/content/5611390
Rob Evans
2009-02-10 13:18:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by FarStar
Post by Rob Evans
quite unintentional. You, like daft George, provoke laughter when you
crave to be considered as serious.
Rob
probably just treated with a modicum of respect,
fuck for brains
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Ever thought of taking an English-As-A-Second-Language Course?

Silly question.

Rob
--
Rob Evans
-----------
When I see a swine,
I reach for 45-calibre pearls>


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Will Dockery
2009-02-08 11:29:45 UTC
Permalink
 > Less quacks and less ridiculous pseudonym are the next steps to total
 > recovery.
 >
 > Rob
Here's something positive for you to contemplate: all of your stupid,
unfunny one-line quips amount to nothing here, not even passing humor.
While it may offer you some temporary satisfaction on occasion, you
should consider the more long-term implications of embodying a bitter
shriveled up persona that has nothing to say except talk of other's
"quacking". May you one day look in the mirror and discover the true
source of the quack, and may it set you free.
"What he sEd." -Dennis M. Hammes

--
"Twilight Girl" and other poetry & music from Will Dockery:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery
Rob Evans
2009-02-08 15:02:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Manwolf
Post by Rob Evans
Less quacks and less ridiculous pseudonym are the next steps to total
recovery.
Rob
Here's something positive for you to contemplate: all of your stupid,
unfunny one-line quips amount to nothing here, not even passing humor.
While it may offer you some temporary satisfaction on occasion, you
should consider the more long-term implications of embodying a bitter
shriveled up persona that has nothing to say except talk of other's
"quacking". May you one day look in the mirror and discover the true
source of the quack, and may it set you free.
"What he sEd." -Dennis M. Hammes

At least you're starting to quote your betters. So much more communicative
than quacking.

Rob
--
Rob Evans
-----------
When I see a swine,
I reach for 45-calibre pearls


--
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Will Dockery
2009-02-09 13:37:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Manwolf
Rob,
Here's something positive for you to contemplate: all of your stupid,
unfunny one-line quips amount to nothing here, not even passing humor.
While it may offer you some temporary satisfaction on occasion, you
should consider the more long-term implications of embodying a bitter
shriveled up persona that has nothing to say except talk of other's
"quacking". May you one day look in the mirror and discover the true
source of the quack, and may it set you free.
"What he sEd." -Dennis M. Hammes
At least you're starting to quote
That's all that was needed to add, since Manwolf pretty much nailed
you there, Rob.

--
"Twilight Girl" and other song-poems by Will Dockery:
http://www.myspace.com/willdockery
Rob Evans
2009-02-10 08:10:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Manwolf
Rob,
Here's something positive for you to contemplate: all of your stupid,
unfunny one-line quips amount to nothing here, not even passing humor.
While it may offer you some temporary satisfaction on occasion, you
should consider the more long-term implications of embodying a bitter
shriveled up persona that has nothing to say except talk of other's
"quacking". May you one day look in the mirror and discover the true
source of the quack, and may it set you free.
"What he sEd." -Dennis M. Hammes
At least you're starting to quote
That's all that was needed to add, since Manwolf pretty much nailed
you there, Rob.
As you have often said, you're not much of a critic, so we can discount your
idea of "nailed" entirely. It explains why every literate contributor here
makes you look stupid and you never really catch on.

Rob
--
Rob Evans
-----------
When I see a swine,
I reach for 45-calibre pearls


--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
------->>>>>>http://www.NewsDemon.com<<<<<<------
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