what's Afro-Sheilas?

[Xah Lee]

In David Bowie's Young Americans lyrics, what does Afro-Sheilas mean?

...
Have you been an un-American?
Just you and your idol singing falsetto 'bout
Leather, leather everywhere, and
Not a myth left from the ghetto
Well, well, well, would you carry a razor
In case, just in case of depression
Sit on your hands on a bus of survivors
Blushing at all the Afro-Sheilas
Ain't that close to love?
Well, ain't that poster love?
Well, it ain't that Barbie doll
Her heart's been broken just like you have
...

full lyrics:
http://www.xahlee.org/Periodic_dosage_dir/sanga_pemci/young_americans.html

Xah
***@xahlee.org
∑ http://xahlee.org/

[ray o'hara]

"Xah Lee" <***@xahlee.org> wrote in message news:***@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
In David Bowie's Young Americans lyrics, what does Afro-Sheilas mean?


A pretty young black girl is what I assume he meant. It is not a term in
general usage, I believe Australians call women Sheilas and it would never
be used in America.
Sheila is a female name.

[Xah Lee]

Xah Lee Jun 27, 4:25 pm show options
i can't find the site in a hurry now, but few days ago i recall two
David Bowie sites indicating common lyrics mistakes pointed out that
it's actually Afro-Sheilas, not afro-sheeners.

ray o'hara's theory of blushing at pretty blacks seems more sound to
me then a hairdo product theory.

Xah
***@xahlee.org
∑ http://xahlee.org/

Post by Xah Lee
In David Bowie's Young Americans lyrics, what does Afro-Sheilas mean?
A pretty young black girl is what I assume he meant. It is not a term in
general usage, I believe Australians call women Sheilas and it would never
be used in America.
Sheila is a female name.

[Xah Lee]

just checked. Sheila as pretty young woman showed up in both American
Heritage and Merriem-Webster collegiate. Consider the song's context of
neighboring lines, Afro-Sheilas is more likely to refer to black young
girls than hairdo spray.

Thanks all.

Xah
***@xahlee.org
∑ http://xahlee.org/

Post by Xah Lee
In David Bowie's Young Americans lyrics, what does Afro-Sheilas mean?
A pretty young black girl is what I assume he meant. It is not a term in
general usage, I believe Australians call women Sheilas and it would never
be used in America.
Sheila is a female name.

[Paul Heslop]

Post by Xah Lee
just checked. Sheila as pretty young woman showed up in both American
Heritage and Merriem-Webster collegiate. Consider the song's context of
neighboring lines, Afro-Sheilas is more likely to refer to black young
girls than hairdo spray.
Thanks all.

sorry not going away :O)

http://www.littleoogie.com/david_bowie_albums/y/younga.html?official

http://www.algonet.se/~bassman/lyrics/index.html

first two sites I found tonight which looked well presented and I had
no trouble finding afro-sheeners. I also found many links to lyrics
with the sheila version, but they seemed to be almost carbon copies of
each other in the way they appeared on google. I guess we could ask
David. :O)

Sadly neither version appears on http://www.kissthisguy.com/

aha, but I may have found your evidence with a little more
searching...

http://www.bowiewonderworld.com/songs/misheard.htm

Misheard: Sit on your hands on the busses of life just, blushing at
all the emerald stealers.
Misheard: Sit on your hands on a bus of survivors, blushing at all the
Afro-Sheeners.
Misheard: Sit on you hands in the buses of fibres.

Actual: Sit on your hands on a bus of survivors, blushing at all the
Afro-Sheilas.

well I'll be hornswaggled! You will gather from all that that I was
researching while typing :O))

[Iskandar Baharuddin]

Post by Xah Lee
In David Bowie's Young Americans lyrics, what does
Afro-Sheilas mean?
A pretty young black girl is what I assume he meant. It is
not a term in
general usage, I believe Australians call women Sheilas and it
would never
be used in America.
Sheila is a female name.

We used to, but not any more, unless one feels no further need
for one's testicles.

Izzy

[Paul Heslop]

Post by Xah Lee
In David Bowie's Young Americans lyrics, what does Afro-Sheilas mean?
...
Have you been an un-American?
Just you and your idol singing falsetto 'bout
Leather, leather everywhere, and
Not a myth left from the ghetto
Well, well, well, would you carry a razor
In case, just in case of depression
Sit on your hands on a bus of survivors
Blushing at all the Afro-Sheilas
Ain't that close to love?
Well, ain't that poster love?
Well, it ain't that Barbie doll
Her heart's been broken just like you have
...
http://www.xahlee.org/Periodic_dosage_dir/sanga_pemci/young_americans.html
Xah
∑ http://xahlee.org/

I had a feeling about this and find the lyrics written elsewhere as

Blushing at all the afro-Sheeners

which is how it has always sounded to me. I then found

Sheener (n) - old fisherman's taboo-name for the sun

and if I think about the high afro hair maybe a strange bowie
description for that kind of hair halo? Or, maybe a spoof, white man's
black hairdo? some other site has

Art Garfunkel's afro-sheener hairstyle

[Dale Houstman]

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Xah Lee
In David Bowie's Young Americans lyrics, what does Afro-Sheilas mean?
...
Have you been an un-American?
Just you and your idol singing falsetto 'bout
Leather, leather everywhere, and
Not a myth left from the ghetto
Well, well, well, would you carry a razor
In case, just in case of depression
Sit on your hands on a bus of survivors
Blushing at all the Afro-Sheilas
Ain't that close to love?
Well, ain't that poster love?
Well, it ain't that Barbie doll
Her heart's been broken just like you have
...
http://www.xahlee.org/Periodic_dosage_dir/sanga_pemci/young_americans.html
Xah
∑ http://xahlee.org/

I had a feeling about this and find the lyrics written elsewhere as
Blushing at all the afro-Sheeners
which is how it has always sounded to me. I then found
Sheener (n) - old fisherman's taboo-name for the sun
and if I think about the high afro hair maybe a strange bowie
description for that kind of hair halo? Or, maybe a spoof, white man's
black hairdo? some other site has
Art Garfunkel's afro-sheener hairstyle

"Afro-Sheen" is a hair product (well known) and used to help create
afros. A description is found here:

http://www.nostalgiacentral.com/pop/afro.htm


dmh

[Paul Heslop]

Post by Dale Houstman

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Xah Lee
In David Bowie's Young Americans lyrics, what does Afro-Sheilas mean?
...
Have you been an un-American?
Just you and your idol singing falsetto 'bout
Leather, leather everywhere, and
Not a myth left from the ghetto
Well, well, well, would you carry a razor
In case, just in case of depression
Sit on your hands on a bus of survivors
Blushing at all the Afro-Sheilas
Ain't that close to love?
Well, ain't that poster love?
Well, it ain't that Barbie doll
Her heart's been broken just like you have
...
http://www.xahlee.org/Periodic_dosage_dir/sanga_pemci/young_americans.html
Xah
∑ http://xahlee.org/

I had a feeling about this and find the lyrics written elsewhere as
Blushing at all the afro-Sheeners
which is how it has always sounded to me. I then found
Sheener (n) - old fisherman's taboo-name for the sun
and if I think about the high afro hair maybe a strange bowie
description for that kind of hair halo? Or, maybe a spoof, white man's
black hairdo? some other site has
Art Garfunkel's afro-sheener hairstyle

"Afro-Sheen" is a hair product (well known) and used to help create
http://www.nostalgiacentral.com/pop/afro.htm
dmh

wasn't that far off then was I? :O)

[ray o'hara]

Post by Dale Houstman

Post by Xah Lee

Post by Xah Lee
In David Bowie's Young Americans lyrics, what does Afro-Sheilas mean?
...
Have you been an un-American?
Just you and your idol singing falsetto 'bout
Leather, leather everywhere, and
Not a myth left from the ghetto
Well, well, well, would you carry a razor
In case, just in case of depression
Sit on your hands on a bus of survivors
Blushing at all the Afro-Sheilas
Ain't that close to love?
Well, ain't that poster love?
Well, it ain't that Barbie doll
Her heart's been broken just like you have
...

http://www.xahlee.org/Periodic_dosage_dir/sanga_pemci/young_americans.html

Post by Xah Lee
Xah
â^' http://xahlee.org/

I had a feeling about this and find the lyrics written elsewhere as
Blushing at all the afro-Sheeners
which is how it has always sounded to me. I then found
Sheener (n) - old fisherman's taboo-name for the sun
and if I think about the high afro hair maybe a strange bowie
description for that kind of hair halo? Or, maybe a spoof, white man's
black hairdo? some other site has
Art Garfunkel's afro-sheener hairstyle

"Afro-Sheen" is a hair product (well known) and used to help create
http://www.nostalgiacentral.com/pop/afro.htm
dmh

wasn't that far off then was I? :O)
--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!")
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/



It was the main sponsor of SOOOOUUUL TRAIN with your host Don Cornelious.
A popular Black music TV show patterned after American Bandstand except
the kids on the show could dance.

[Paul Heslop]

Post by ray o'hara
It was the main sponsor of SOOOOUUUL TRAIN with your host Don Cornelious.
A popular Black music TV show patterned after American Bandstand except
the kids on the show could dance.

:O) I only know of these things from the movies

[ray o'hara]

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by ray o'hara
It was the main sponsor of SOOOOUUUL TRAIN with your host Don Cornelious.
A popular Black music TV show patterned after American Bandstand except
the kids on the show could dance.

:O) I only know of these things from the movies
--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!")

Then you missed some great TV. When I was young kidling my mother would
put me on my rocky horse in front of the TV when Dick Clark's American
Bandstand came on and I'd rock away.

[Dale Houstman]

Post by ray o'hara

Post by ray o'hara
It was the main sponsor of SOOOOUUUL TRAIN with your host Don

Cornelious.

Post by ray o'hara
A popular Black music TV show patterned after American Bandstand

except

Post by ray o'hara
the kids on the show could dance.

:O) I only know of these things from the movies -- Paul (And I'm,
like, "yeah, whatever!")

Then you missed some great TV. When I was young kidling my mother
would put me on my rocky horse in front of the TV when Dick Clark's
American Bandstand came on and I'd rock away.

I've seen some replays of it recently, and it seems the "thrill" is
mostly the golden mist of nostalgia: it's a pretty dismal and crassly
conservative showcase of lipsynching faces, some talented, many not
particularly, but how would we know from the presentation? And all
lorded over by that "payola monkey turned state's evidence" Dick Clunk,
who doesn't seem to actually like music much. The guy he helped to ruin,
Freed, was a radio personality who actually dug the music. Dick was a
industry toady who later said that his idea of great music was the disco
era. Probably because it was a genre dominated by producers and suits;
guys he could really play a round of gold with while planning another
lame "Rockin' New Year's Eve" in which Barry Manilow would appear to the
great joy of aging lounge lizards and lizardettes.

The only endearing thing about it really was the chance to watch some
cute girls in bobby socks bouncing around on the dance floor and
squealing mindlessly as Bobby Dollar mimed the words to "I Want You To
Be My Permanent Houseguest." I think it has a nice beat and you can
dance to it...I'll give it a zero.

[Areff]

["Followup-To:" header set to alt.usage.english.]
Dale Houstman wrote:
[re: Dick Clark]

Post by Dale Houstman
Dick was a
industry toady who later said that his idea of great music was the disco
era. Probably because it was a genre dominated by producers and suits;
guys he could really play a round of gold with while planning another
lame "Rockin' New Year's Eve" in which Barry Manilow would appear to the
great joy of aging lounge lizards and lizardettes.

Uh-oh. Now you've gone and wook up Ross Howard.

[Paul Heslop]

Post by Dale Houstman

Post by ray o'hara

Post by ray o'hara
It was the main sponsor of SOOOOUUUL TRAIN with your host Don

Cornelious.

Post by ray o'hara
A popular Black music TV show patterned after American Bandstand

except

Post by ray o'hara
the kids on the show could dance.

:O) I only know of these things from the movies -- Paul (And I'm,
like, "yeah, whatever!")

Then you missed some great TV. When I was young kidling my mother
would put me on my rocky horse in front of the TV when Dick Clark's
American Bandstand came on and I'd rock away.

I've seen some replays of it recently, and it seems the "thrill" is
mostly the golden mist of nostalgia: it's a pretty dismal and crassly
conservative showcase of lipsynching faces, some talented, many not
particularly, but how would we know from the presentation? And all
lorded over by that "payola monkey turned state's evidence" Dick Clunk,
who doesn't seem to actually like music much. The guy he helped to ruin,
Freed, was a radio personality who actually dug the music. Dick was a
industry toady who later said that his idea of great music was the disco
era. Probably because it was a genre dominated by producers and suits;
guys he could really play a round of gold with while planning another
lame "Rockin' New Year's Eve" in which Barry Manilow would appear to the
great joy of aging lounge lizards and lizardettes.
The only endearing thing about it really was the chance to watch some
cute girls in bobby socks bouncing around on the dance floor and
squealing mindlessly as Bobby Dollar mimed the words to "I Want You To
Be My Permanent Houseguest." I think it has a nice beat and you can
dance to it...I'll give it a zero.

I've read of Freed a lot, during my wallowing in Elvis biaographies
etc. a well respected gent

[ray o'hara]

Post by Dale Houstman

Post by ray o'hara

Post by ray o'hara
It was the main sponsor of SOOOOUUUL TRAIN with your host Don

Cornelious.

Post by ray o'hara
A popular Black music TV show patterned after American Bandstand

except

Post by ray o'hara
the kids on the show could dance.

:O) I only know of these things from the movies -- Paul (And I'm,
like, "yeah, whatever!")

Then you missed some great TV. When I was young kidling my mother
would put me on my rocky horse in front of the TV when Dick Clark's
American Bandstand came on and I'd rock away.

I've seen some replays of it recently, and it seems the "thrill" is
mostly the golden mist of nostalgia: it's a pretty dismal and crassly
conservative showcase of lipsynching faces, some talented, many not
particularly, but how would we know from the presentation? And all
lorded over by that "payola monkey turned state's evidence" Dick Clunk,
who doesn't seem to actually like music much. The guy he helped to ruin,
Freed, was a radio personality who actually dug the music. Dick was a
industry toady who later said that his idea of great music was the disco
era. Probably because it was a genre dominated by producers and suits;
guys he could really play a round of gold with while planning another
lame "Rockin' New Year's Eve" in which Barry Manilow would appear to the
great joy of aging lounge lizards and lizardettes.
The only endearing thing about it really was the chance to watch some
cute girls in bobby socks bouncing around on the dance floor and
squealing mindlessly as Bobby Dollar mimed the words to "I Want You To
Be My Permanent Houseguest." I think it has a nice beat and you can
dance to it...I'll give it a zero.

It was the late 50s early 60s, a much simpler time, as you noted lip
synching was as prevelent then as now. The talent then is no worse than now
and they could usually sing rather than just swear in rhyme.

[Paul Heslop]

Post by ray o'hara
It was the late 50s early 60s, a much simpler time, as you noted lip
synching was as prevelent then as now. The talent then is no worse than now
and they could usually sing rather than just swear in rhyme.

I would have said talent came first in most cases. Lip synching was
done for ease. I hate this modern excuse, as with Stock, Aitken and
Waterman bands when complaints were raised that one 'band' (ie;
dancers who mime) had lip synched badly the management simply replied
"Wouldn't you rather see that than hear them singing out of key?"

Lip synching on a 'live' stage is a total and absolute con.

[ray o'hara]

Post by Paul Heslop
"Wouldn't you rather see that than hear them singing out of key?"
Lip synching on a 'live' stage is a total and absolute con.

Lip synching is usually done to compensate for a bad sound system on tv
shows. Lip synching is only a sin when it is done to someone elses voice as
was the case in Milli Vanilli.

[Paul Heslop]

Post by ray o'hara

Post by Paul Heslop
"Wouldn't you rather see that than hear them singing out of key?"
Lip synching on a 'live' stage is a total and absolute con.

Lip synching is usually done to compensate for a bad sound system on tv
shows. Lip synching is only a sin when it is done to someone elses voice as
was the case in Milli Vanilli.

even that has become acceptable nowadays, worse luck. It's time we got
back to basics

[Dennis M. Hammes]

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by ray o'hara
It was the late 50s early 60s, a much simpler time, as you noted lip
synching was as prevelent then as now. The talent then is no worse than now
and they could usually sing rather than just swear in rhyme.

I would have said talent came first in most cases. Lip synching was
done for ease. I hate this modern excuse, as with Stock, Aitken and
Waterman bands when complaints were raised that one 'band' (ie;
dancers who mime) had lip synched badly the management simply replied
"Wouldn't you rather see that than hear them singing out of key?"
Lip synching on a 'live' stage is a total and absolute con.

Actually, lip-synching in the '40s-'60s was due to technical
difficulties beyond our control: the sound recorder and the video
recorder(s, fillum or orthicon) were two different dinguses. Always.
The sound track was burned into the master (fillum or tape)
separately, synched by the clapper.
In the '40s-'60s, singers who danced while singing were pretty
careful about exactly when they moved their arms, and didn't move
them much anyway. With today's gyrations, the voice varies by more
than 12dB, i.e., the sound track is useless.
Neither of these restrictions excuses groups who have to sync
their one good studio cut while swallowing a microphone on camera.
Especially when it can't FIND THE PITCH, BITCH, with a divining rod.

[Paul Heslop]

Post by Dennis M. Hammes

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by ray o'hara
It was the late 50s early 60s, a much simpler time, as you noted lip
synching was as prevelent then as now. The talent then is no worse than now
and they could usually sing rather than just swear in rhyme.

I would have said talent came first in most cases. Lip synching was
done for ease. I hate this modern excuse, as with Stock, Aitken and
Waterman bands when complaints were raised that one 'band' (ie;
dancers who mime) had lip synched badly the management simply replied
"Wouldn't you rather see that than hear them singing out of key?"
Lip synching on a 'live' stage is a total and absolute con.

Actually, lip-synching in the '40s-'60s was due to technical
difficulties beyond our control: the sound recorder and the video
recorder(s, fillum or orthicon) were two different dinguses. Always.
The sound track was burned into the master (fillum or tape)
separately, synched by the clapper.
In the '40s-'60s, singers who danced while singing were pretty
careful about exactly when they moved their arms, and didn't move
them much anyway. With today's gyrations, the voice varies by more
than 12dB, i.e., the sound track is useless.
Neither of these restrictions excuses groups who have to sync
their one good studio cut while swallowing a microphone on camera.
Especially when it can't FIND THE PITCH, BITCH, with a divining rod.
--
-------(m+
~/:o)_|
The only thing that doesn't change
is that nothing changes. -- Herakleitos
http://scrawlmark.org

:O) You've met the Spice girls then?

[Mike Lyle]

[...]

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Dennis M. Hammes
Especially when it can't FIND THE PITCH, BITCH, with a divining rod.

[...]

Post by Paul Heslop
:O) You've met the Spice girls then?

Cue story I heard from a recording "engineer", which I've told here
before, which may be false, and which may well be told about others
anyway.

The back room work all night cutting and splicing bits of innumerable
takes by Cilla Black. Next day, the diva arrives and enthuses
ecstatically over the result. "Yeah," growls a bleary backroom boy,
"I bet you wish _you_ could sing like that!"

[Paul Heslop]

Post by Mike Lyle
[...]

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Dennis M. Hammes
Especially when it can't FIND THE PITCH, BITCH, with a divining rod.

[...]

Post by Paul Heslop
:O) You've met the Spice girls then?

Cue story I heard from a recording "engineer", which I've told here
before, which may be false, and which may well be told about others
anyway.
The back room work all night cutting and splicing bits of innumerable
takes by Cilla Black. Next day, the diva arrives and enthuses
ecstatically over the result. "Yeah," growls a bleary backroom boy,
"I bet you wish _you_ could sing like that!"
--
Mike.

arrrrr, a berry grra lorra lorra laughs wiv that! :O)

(You have to a brit to get that one)

[ray o'hara]

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Dennis M. Hammes

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by ray o'hara
It was the late 50s early 60s, a much simpler time, as you noted lip
synching was as prevelent then as now. The talent then is no worse than now
and they could usually sing rather than just swear in rhyme.

I would have said talent came first in most cases. Lip synching was
done for ease. I hate this modern excuse, as with Stock, Aitken and
Waterman bands when complaints were raised that one 'band' (ie;
dancers who mime) had lip synched badly the management simply replied
"Wouldn't you rather see that than hear them singing out of key?"
Lip synching on a 'live' stage is a total and absolute con.

Actually, lip-synching in the '40s-'60s was due to technical
difficulties beyond our control: the sound recorder and the video
recorder(s, fillum or orthicon) were two different dinguses. Always.
The sound track was burned into the master (fillum or tape)
separately, synched by the clapper.
In the '40s-'60s, singers who danced while singing were pretty
careful about exactly when they moved their arms, and didn't move
them much anyway. With today's gyrations, the voice varies by more
than 12dB, i.e., the sound track is useless.
Neither of these restrictions excuses groups who have to sync
their one good studio cut while swallowing a microphone on camera.
Especially when it can't FIND THE PITCH, BITCH, with a divining rod.
--
-------(m+
~/:o)_|
The only thing that doesn't change
is that nothing changes. -- Herakleitos
http://scrawlmark.org

:O) You've met the Spice girls then?

Or Ashley Simpson. studio effects can make anyone sound like Bing Crosby.

[Will Dockery]

Post by ray o'hara

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Dennis M. Hammes

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by ray o'hara
It was the late 50s early 60s, a much simpler time, as you noted lip
synching was as prevelent then as now. The talent then is no worse

than now

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Dennis M. Hammes

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by ray o'hara
and they could usually sing rather than just swear in rhyme.

I would have said talent came first in most cases. Lip synching was
done for ease. I hate this modern excuse, as with Stock, Aitken and
Waterman bands when complaints were raised that one 'band' (ie;
dancers who mime) had lip synched badly the management simply replied
"Wouldn't you rather see that than hear them singing out of key?"
Lip synching on a 'live' stage is a total and absolute con.

Actually, lip-synching in the '40s-'60s was due to technical
difficulties beyond our control: the sound recorder and the video
recorder(s, fillum or orthicon) were two different dinguses. Always.
The sound track was burned into the master (fillum or tape)
separately, synched by the clapper.
In the '40s-'60s, singers who danced while singing were pretty
careful about exactly when they moved their arms, and didn't move
them much anyway. With today's gyrations, the voice varies by more
than 12dB, i.e., the sound track is useless.
Neither of these restrictions excuses groups who have to sync
their one good studio cut while swallowing a microphone on camera.
Especially when it can't FIND THE PITCH, BITCH, with a divining rod.

That's why when I'm onstage I have a herky-jerky appearance of a
punch-drunk lumberjack, my mind is always party on the mic at all
times, since the /sound/ is the thing.

The beauty and joy of live performance is that each time is different,
and the musicians react to the others' mood of the day, as well as the
vibe the crowd signifies.

Post by ray o'hara

Post by Paul Heslop
:O) You've met the Spice girls then?

Or Ashley Simpson. studio effects can make anyone sound like Bing Crosby.

Anyone out there remember Bowie's excellent, and non lip synch,
performance one Saturday aftertoon in 1975 on Soul Train to promote the
Young Americans lp? That Summer I was living in a tent in the backyard,
read Subterraneans and Planet News for the first time, and I mafe a
point to get inside the big house to catch it.

The first glimpse I had of the *new* Bowie, white soul man cut back
vaseline hair, scrawny humble jumble coke dance, visibly sweating
bullets in his green polyester baggies..:

"Ain't they're won dahm song that can make me... break down and
crrrrrry?"

"All NIGHT!"

"He was the hung American..."

And so on.

Poet of the People explanding his kingdom, and I read Subterraneans and
Planet News that Summer, living in a tent in the backyard--.

--
Houstman:
That a poem titled "Moon Studies" contains next-to-nothing concerning
the moon

Dockery:
"Little Angel" is the /key/. Read it again, old son.

The Netherlands/Shadowville cross cultural exchange
project <http://www.kannibaal.nl/shadowville.htm>

"Mirror Twins" [Will Dockery]
http://www.lulu.com/items/29000/29085/preview/Will_Dockery_-_03_-_Track__3.mp3

[Dale Houstman]

Post by ray o'hara
Or Ashley Simpson. studio effects can make anyone sound like Bing Crosby.

Studio manipulation can do a lot, but there isn't a machine in the
universe that can turn a turd into a Peacock Throne. One can make all
the notes get in the right line, but you can't infuse the human warmth
and musical genius of Bing's level into a singing piglet.

dmh

[Paul Heslop]

Post by Dale Houstman

Post by ray o'hara
Or Ashley Simpson. studio effects can make anyone sound like Bing Crosby.

Studio manipulation can do a lot, but there isn't a machine in the
universe that can turn a turd into a Peacock Throne. One can make all
the notes get in the right line, but you can't infuse the human warmth
and musical genius of Bing's level into a singing piglet.
dmh

This is what I keep trying to get over to the kids. All these modern
cover version, almost all sound flat when compared with the originals
because they don't care.

[Joy Twitcuntre]

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Dale Houstman

Post by ray o'hara
Or Ashley Simpson. studio effects can make anyone sound like Bing Crosby.

Studio manipulation can do a lot, but there isn't a machine in the
universe that can turn a turd into a Peacock Throne. One can make all
the notes get in the right line, but you can't infuse the human warmth
and musical genius of Bing's level into a singing piglet.
dmh

This is what I keep trying to get over to the kids. All these modern
cover version, almost all sound flat when compared with the originals
because they don't care.

Ever hear Ronstadt's 3 album set with Nelson Riddle?

Post by Paul Heslop
--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!")
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/

[Skitt]

Post by Joy Twitcuntre
Ever hear Ronstadt's 3 album set with Nelson Riddle?

Naah, I've never met Nelson Riddle.

[Dennis M. Hammes]

Post by Skitt

Post by Joy Twitcuntre
Ever hear Ronstadt's 3 album set with Nelson Riddle?

Naah, I've never met Nelson Riddle.

'Sokay. Tommy prolly thinks he meant Nelson Eddy.

[Paul Heslop]

Post by Joy Twitcuntre

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Dale Houstman

Post by ray o'hara
Or Ashley Simpson. studio effects can make anyone sound like Bing Crosby.

Studio manipulation can do a lot, but there isn't a machine in the
universe that can turn a turd into a Peacock Throne. One can make all
the notes get in the right line, but you can't infuse the human warmth
and musical genius of Bing's level into a singing piglet.
dmh

This is what I keep trying to get over to the kids. All these modern
cover version, almost all sound flat when compared with the originals
because they don't care.

Ever hear Ronstadt's 3 album set with Nelson Riddle?

I haven't heard Ronstadt for years.

[Dennis M. Hammes]

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Dale Houstman

Post by ray o'hara
Or Ashley Simpson. studio effects can make anyone sound like Bing Crosby.

Studio manipulation can do a lot, but there isn't a machine in the
universe that can turn a turd into a Peacock Throne. One can make all
the notes get in the right line, but you can't infuse the human warmth
and musical genius of Bing's level into a singing piglet.
dmh

This is what I keep trying to get over to the kids. All these modern
cover version, almost all sound flat when compared with the originals
because they don't care.

Hey. /Real/ PROFESSIONAL people are /paying attention/ to them.

[Paul Heslop]

Post by Dennis M. Hammes

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Dale Houstman

Post by ray o'hara
Or Ashley Simpson. studio effects can make anyone sound like Bing Crosby.

Studio manipulation can do a lot, but there isn't a machine in the
universe that can turn a turd into a Peacock Throne. One can make all
the notes get in the right line, but you can't infuse the human warmth
and musical genius of Bing's level into a singing piglet.
dmh

This is what I keep trying to get over to the kids. All these modern
cover version, almost all sound flat when compared with the originals
because they don't care.

Hey. /Real/ PROFESSIONAL people are /paying attention/ to them.

Good point but they don't care either as long as they hear cash
registers

[Dennis M. Hammes]

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Dennis M. Hammes

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Dale Houstman

Post by ray o'hara
Or Ashley Simpson. studio effects can make anyone sound like Bing Crosby.

Studio manipulation can do a lot, but there isn't a machine in the
universe that can turn a turd into a Peacock Throne. One can make all
the notes get in the right line, but you can't infuse the human warmth
and musical genius of Bing's level into a singing piglet.
dmh

This is what I keep trying to get over to the kids. All these modern
cover version, almost all sound flat when compared with the originals
because they don't care.

Hey. /Real/ PROFESSIONAL people are /paying attention/ to them.

Good point but they don't care either as long as they hear cash
registers

Cash-register stats vs. guitar/drum sales indicate that, for almost
all, it's all about the Attention. The bigger the amp/drumset, the
greater the Attention in the first approximation, so they don't have
to go any farther than that.
Dockery has discovered the UseNet Amplifier, and publishes his one
copy of The Hitchhiker's Guide to Deliverance /all over the Whole
Universe/. It's still Mostly Harmless.
The chuckles just bangs on his dumpster; who needs to pay for a
drum set when you /live/ in one?
Hey. I do the same thing (as both of them).
But I always leave some sugar-coated peanuts ("virus") in my shit.
Dockery hasn't got any peanuts, and the chuckles hasn't even got
any sugar. Hear that Howl (Part II).
Or maybe it's red clam sauce.

[Paul Heslop]

Post by Dennis M. Hammes

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Dennis M. Hammes

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Dale Houstman

Post by ray o'hara
Or Ashley Simpson. studio effects can make anyone sound like Bing Crosby.

Studio manipulation can do a lot, but there isn't a machine in the
universe that can turn a turd into a Peacock Throne. One can make all
the notes get in the right line, but you can't infuse the human warmth
and musical genius of Bing's level into a singing piglet.
dmh

This is what I keep trying to get over to the kids. All these modern
cover version, almost all sound flat when compared with the originals
because they don't care.

Hey. /Real/ PROFESSIONAL people are /paying attention/ to them.

Good point but they don't care either as long as they hear cash
registers

Cash-register stats vs. guitar/drum sales indicate that, for almost
all, it's all about the Attention. The bigger the amp/drumset, the
greater the Attention in the first approximation, so they don't have
to go any farther than that.
Dockery has discovered the UseNet Amplifier, and publishes his one
copy of The Hitchhiker's Guide to Deliverance /all over the Whole
Universe/. It's still Mostly Harmless.
The chuckles just bangs on his dumpster; who needs to pay for a
drum set when you /live/ in one?
Hey. I do the same thing (as both of them).
But I always leave some sugar-coated peanuts ("virus") in my shit.
Dockery hasn't got any peanuts, and the chuckles hasn't even got
any sugar. Hear that Howl (Part II).
Or maybe it's red clam sauce.
--
-------(m+
~/:o)_|
The only thing that doesn't change
is that nothing changes. -- Herakleitos
http://scrawlmark.org

I often wonder what it is you are smoking while writing :O))

[ray o'hara]

"Paul Heslop"> > Cash-register stats vs. guitar/drum sales indicate that,
for almost

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Dennis M. Hammes
all, it's all about the Attention. The bigger the amp/drumset, the
greater the Attention in the first approximation, so they don't have
to go any farther than that.
Dockery has discovered the UseNet Amplifier, and publishes his one
copy of The Hitchhiker's Guide to Deliverance /all over the Whole
Universe/. It's still Mostly Harmless.
The chuckles just bangs on his dumpster; who needs to pay for a
drum set when you /live/ in one?
Hey. I do the same thing (as both of them).
But I always leave some sugar-coated peanuts ("virus") in my shit.
Dockery hasn't got any peanuts, and the chuckles hasn't even got
any sugar. Hear that Howl (Part II).
Or maybe it's red clam sauce.
--
-------(m+
~/:o)_|
The only thing that doesn't change
is that nothing changes. -- Herakleito
http://scrawlmark.org

I often wonder what it is you are smoking while writing :O))
--

And will he tell where he gets it.

[Dennis M. Hammes]

Post by Dale Houstman

Post by ray o'hara
Or Ashley Simpson. studio effects can make anyone sound like Bing Crosby.

Studio manipulation can do a lot, but there isn't a machine in the
universe that can turn a turd into a Peacock Throne. One can make all
the notes get in the right line, but you can't infuse the human warmth
and musical genius of Bing's level into a singing piglet.
dmh

And then he went and made it look /easy/.
So'd Sinatra, Durante, Astaire, Cole, Andrews, Andrews, and Andrews...

[Paul Heslop]

Post by ray o'hara

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Dennis M. Hammes

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by ray o'hara
It was the late 50s early 60s, a much simpler time, as you noted lip
synching was as prevelent then as now. The talent then is no worse

than now

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Dennis M. Hammes

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by ray o'hara
and they could usually sing rather than just swear in rhyme.

I would have said talent came first in most cases. Lip synching was
done for ease. I hate this modern excuse, as with Stock, Aitken and
Waterman bands when complaints were raised that one 'band' (ie;
dancers who mime) had lip synched badly the management simply replied
"Wouldn't you rather see that than hear them singing out of key?"
Lip synching on a 'live' stage is a total and absolute con.

Actually, lip-synching in the '40s-'60s was due to technical
difficulties beyond our control: the sound recorder and the video
recorder(s, fillum or orthicon) were two different dinguses. Always.
The sound track was burned into the master (fillum or tape)
separately, synched by the clapper.
In the '40s-'60s, singers who danced while singing were pretty
careful about exactly when they moved their arms, and didn't move
them much anyway. With today's gyrations, the voice varies by more
than 12dB, i.e., the sound track is useless.
Neither of these restrictions excuses groups who have to sync
their one good studio cut while swallowing a microphone on camera.
Especially when it can't FIND THE PITCH, BITCH, with a divining rod.
--
-------(m+
~/:o)_|
The only thing that doesn't change
is that nothing changes. -- Herakleitos
http://scrawlmark.org

:O) You've met the Spice girls then?

Or Ashley Simpson. studio effects can make anyone sound like Bing Crosby.

Ashley Simspon sounds like Bing? :O)

[Dennis M. Hammes]

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by ray o'hara

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Dennis M. Hammes

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by ray o'hara
It was the late 50s early 60s, a much simpler time, as you noted lip
synching was as prevelent then as now. The talent then is no worse

than now

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Dennis M. Hammes

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by ray o'hara
and they could usually sing rather than just swear in rhyme.

I would have said talent came first in most cases. Lip synching was
done for ease. I hate this modern excuse, as with Stock, Aitken and
Waterman bands when complaints were raised that one 'band' (ie;
dancers who mime) had lip synched badly the management simply replied
"Wouldn't you rather see that than hear them singing out of key?"
Lip synching on a 'live' stage is a total and absolute con.

Actually, lip-synching in the '40s-'60s was due to technical
difficulties beyond our control: the sound recorder and the video
recorder(s, fillum or orthicon) were two different dinguses. Always.
The sound track was burned into the master (fillum or tape)
separately, synched by the clapper.
In the '40s-'60s, singers who danced while singing were pretty
careful about exactly when they moved their arms, and didn't move
them much anyway. With today's gyrations, the voice varies by more
than 12dB, i.e., the sound track is useless.
Neither of these restrictions excuses groups who have to sync
their one good studio cut while swallowing a microphone on camera.
Especially when it can't FIND THE PITCH, BITCH, with a divining rod.
--
-------(m+
~/:o)_|
The only thing that doesn't change
is that nothing changes. -- Herakleitos
http://scrawlmark.org

:O) You've met the Spice girls then?

Or Ashley Simpson. studio effects can make anyone sound like Bing Crosby.

Ashley Simspon sounds like Bing? :O)

Not really. It's just that every time the microphone goes
biiNNNNGGGGG, she drools.

[Paul Heslop]

Post by Dennis M. Hammes

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by ray o'hara

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Dennis M. Hammes

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by ray o'hara
It was the late 50s early 60s, a much simpler time, as you noted lip
synching was as prevelent then as now. The talent then is no worse

than now

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Dennis M. Hammes

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by ray o'hara
and they could usually sing rather than just swear in rhyme.

I would have said talent came first in most cases. Lip synching was
done for ease. I hate this modern excuse, as with Stock, Aitken and
Waterman bands when complaints were raised that one 'band' (ie;
dancers who mime) had lip synched badly the management simply replied
"Wouldn't you rather see that than hear them singing out of key?"
Lip synching on a 'live' stage is a total and absolute con.

Actually, lip-synching in the '40s-'60s was due to technical
difficulties beyond our control: the sound recorder and the video
recorder(s, fillum or orthicon) were two different dinguses. Always.
The sound track was burned into the master (fillum or tape)
separately, synched by the clapper.
In the '40s-'60s, singers who danced while singing were pretty
careful about exactly when they moved their arms, and didn't move
them much anyway. With today's gyrations, the voice varies by more
than 12dB, i.e., the sound track is useless.
Neither of these restrictions excuses groups who have to sync
their one good studio cut while swallowing a microphone on camera.
Especially when it can't FIND THE PITCH, BITCH, with a divining rod.
--
-------(m+
~/:o)_|
The only thing that doesn't change
is that nothing changes. -- Herakleitos
http://scrawlmark.org

:O) You've met the Spice girls then?

Or Ashley Simpson. studio effects can make anyone sound like Bing Crosby.

Ashley Simspon sounds like Bing? :O)

Not really. It's just that every time the microphone goes
biiNNNNGGGGG, she drools.
--

Are you telling me she's a dog? (BTW I don't know her very well, just
a vague thing... does she do reality tv on MTV?)

[Joy Twitcuntre]

Post by Paul Heslop
:O) You've met the Spice girls then?

Cloved Zarzaparrilla

O Reg ---
Ano has Thyme!
But with
my Car away
Cumin's a Majoram Dillweed.

Rose, Mary, and
that Nut Meg will
lic Gar at Basil
Bay, Gingerly, yes ---
but ---
Must Ard and
Cinnamon Tarragon?

Post by Paul Heslop
--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!")
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/

[Paul Heslop]

Post by Joy Twitcuntre

Post by Paul Heslop
:O) You've met the Spice girls then?

Cloved Zarzaparrilla
O Reg ---
Ano has Thyme!
But with
my Car away
Cumin's a Majoram Dillweed.
Rose, Mary, and
that Nut Meg will
lic Gar at Basil
Bay, Gingerly, yes ---
but ---
Must Ard and
Cinnamon Tarragon?

Post by Paul Heslop
--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!")
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/

Yo, I'll tell you what I want, what I really really want,
So tell me what you want, what you really really want,
I'll tell you what I want, what I really really want,
So tell me what you want, what you really really want,
I wanna, I wanna, I wanna, I wanna, I wanna really really really wanna
zigazig ha.

[Dennis M. Hammes]

Post by Dale Houstman

Post by ray o'hara

Post by ray o'hara
It was the main sponsor of SOOOOUUUL TRAIN with your host Don

Cornelious.

Post by ray o'hara
A popular Black music TV show patterned after American Bandstand

except

Post by ray o'hara
the kids on the show could dance.

:O) I only know of these things from the movies -- Paul (And I'm,
like, "yeah, whatever!")

Then you missed some great TV. When I was young kidling my mother
would put me on my rocky horse in front of the TV when Dick Clark's
American Bandstand came on and I'd rock away.

I've seen some replays of it recently, and it seems the "thrill" is
mostly the golden mist of nostalgia: it's a pretty dismal and crassly
conservative showcase of lipsynching faces, some talented, many not
particularly, but how would we know from the presentation? And all
lorded over by that "payola monkey turned state's evidence" Dick Clunk,
who doesn't seem to actually like music much. The guy he helped to ruin,
Freed, was a radio personality who actually dug the music. Dick was a
industry toady who later said that his idea of great music was the disco
era. Probably because it was a genre dominated by producers and suits;
guys he could really play a round of gold with while planning another
lame "Rockin' New Year's Eve" in which Barry Manilow would appear to the
great joy of aging lounge lizards and lizardettes.
The only endearing thing about it really was the chance to watch some
cute girls in bobby socks bouncing around on the dance floor and
squealing mindlessly as Bobby Dollar mimed the words to "I Want You To
Be My Permanent Houseguest." I think it has a nice beat and you can
dance to it...I'll give it a zero.

Heh. Not at all like today, where the far-more-Talented Stars on MTV
/really sing/.

[Paul Heslop]

Post by ray o'hara

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by ray o'hara
It was the main sponsor of SOOOOUUUL TRAIN with your host Don

Cornelious.

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by ray o'hara
A popular Black music TV show patterned after American Bandstand

except

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by ray o'hara
the kids on the show could dance.

:O) I only know of these things from the movies
--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!")

Then you missed some great TV. When I was young kidling my mother would
put me on my rocky horse in front of the TV when Dick Clark's American
Bandstand came on and I'd rock away.

They probably showed some over here, but wasn't all this stuff live?
Could be the reason for it not being done here. We had tv from my
being very small, if not before I was born, so we're talking mid
fifties.

[Mike Lyle]

ray o'hara wrote:
[...]

Post by ray o'hara
Then you missed some great TV. When I was young kidling my mother
would put me on my rocky horse in front of the TV when Dick Clark's
American Bandstand came on and I'd rock away.

Even I find it hard to believe, but I remember Leadbelly's radio
show. Imprinted largely, I think, because my father sneered at the
pronunciation of "Irene".

[Paul Heslop]

Post by Mike Lyle
[...]

Post by ray o'hara
Then you missed some great TV. When I was young kidling my mother
would put me on my rocky horse in front of the TV when Dick Clark's
American Bandstand came on and I'd rock away.

Even I find it hard to believe, but I remember Leadbelly's radio
show. Imprinted largely, I think, because my father sneered at the
pronunciation of "Irene".
--
Mike.

he had the strangest voice didn't he? As an Englishman I find some
american voices almost impossible (and some English!) but listening to
him is something else. I love those bits in the songs when he kind of
talks to himself

[Dale Houstman]

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Dale Houstman

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Xah Lee
In David Bowie's Young Americans lyrics, what does Afro-Sheilas mean?
...
Have you been an un-American?
Just you and your idol singing falsetto 'bout
Leather, leather everywhere, and
Not a myth left from the ghetto
Well, well, well, would you carry a razor
In case, just in case of depression
Sit on your hands on a bus of survivors
Blushing at all the Afro-Sheilas
Ain't that close to love?
Well, ain't that poster love?
Well, it ain't that Barbie doll
Her heart's been broken just like you have
...
http://www.xahlee.org/Periodic_dosage_dir/sanga_pemci/young_americans.html
Xah
∑ http://xahlee.org/

I had a feeling about this and find the lyrics written elsewhere as
Blushing at all the afro-Sheeners
which is how it has always sounded to me. I then found
Sheener (n) - old fisherman's taboo-name for the sun
and if I think about the high afro hair maybe a strange bowie
description for that kind of hair halo? Or, maybe a spoof, white man's
black hairdo? some other site has
Art Garfunkel's afro-sheener hairstyle

"Afro-Sheen" is a hair product (well known) and used to help create
http://www.nostalgiacentral.com/pop/afro.htm
dmh

wasn't that far off then was I? :O)

No, pretty good. I had to look for more info myself; I knew it was a
black hair product, but originally thought it was one which was used for
"gassing" (slickingf back) the hair, to achieve a more "acceptable"
(read "white") smoothness. An earlier product that, although still in
style here and there. In "der show biz" it was widely thought that Nat
King Cole had the best 'do, and Sammy Davis Jr. the worst. On looking, I
must agree. Of course, white men had their little secretes also: all
thoee early movie actors with brilliantine skullcaps "glittering" in the
stage lights. No wonder they called them "stars."

dmh

[Paul Heslop]

Post by Dale Houstman

Post by Paul Heslop
wasn't that far off then was I? :O)

No, pretty good. I had to look for more info myself; I knew it was a
black hair product, but originally thought it was one which was used for
"gassing" (slickingf back) the hair, to achieve a more "acceptable"
(read "white") smoothness. An earlier product that, although still in
style here and there. In "der show biz" it was widely thought that Nat
King Cole had the best 'do, and Sammy Davis Jr. the worst. On looking, I
must agree. Of course, white men had their little secretes also: all
thoee early movie actors with brilliantine skullcaps "glittering" in the
stage lights. No wonder they called them "stars."
dmh

I always thought sammy had a wig :O)

[Dale Houstman]

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Dale Houstman

Post by Paul Heslop
wasn't that far off then was I? :O)

No, pretty good. I had to look for more info myself; I knew it was a
black hair product, but originally thought it was one which was used for
"gassing" (slickingf back) the hair, to achieve a more "acceptable"
(read "white") smoothness. An earlier product that, although still in
style here and there. In "der show biz" it was widely thought that Nat
King Cole had the best 'do, and Sammy Davis Jr. the worst. On looking, I
must agree. Of course, white men had their little secretes also: all
thoee early movie actors with brilliantine skullcaps "glittering" in the
stage lights. No wonder they called them "stars."
dmh

I always thought sammy had a wig :O)

THAT bad!

[Murray Arnow]

Post by Xah Lee
=
In David Bowie's Young Americans lyrics, what does Afro-Sheilas mean?
=
...
Have you been an un-American?
Just you and your idol singing falsetto 'bout
Leather, leather everywhere, and
Not a myth left from the ghetto
Well, well, well, would you carry a razor
In case, just in case of depression
Sit on your hands on a bus of survivors
Blushing at all the Afro-Sheilas
Ain't that close to love?
Well, ain't that poster love?
Well, it ain't that Barbie doll
Her heart's been broken just like you have
...
=
http://www.xahlee.org/Periodic_dosage_dir/sanga_pemci/young_americans.h=

tml

Post by Xah Lee
=
Xah
=E2=88=91 http://xahlee.org/

I had a feeling about this and find the lyrics written elsewhere as =
Blushing at all the afro-Sheeners
which is how it has always sounded to me. I then found
Sheener (n) - old fisherman's taboo-name for the sun
and if I think about the high afro hair maybe a strange bowie
description for that kind of hair halo? Or, maybe a spoof, white man's
black hairdo? some other site has
Art Garfunkel's afro-sheener hairstyle
-- =
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!") =

Afro Sheen is a hair-care product directed toward blacks. It's been around as
long as my memory serves. Let's see what you can make of this.

[Paul Heslop]

Post by Murray Arnow

Post by Xah Lee
=
In David Bowie's Young Americans lyrics, what does Afro-Sheilas mean?
=
...
Have you been an un-American?
Just you and your idol singing falsetto 'bout
Leather, leather everywhere, and
Not a myth left from the ghetto
Well, well, well, would you carry a razor
In case, just in case of depression
Sit on your hands on a bus of survivors
Blushing at all the Afro-Sheilas
Ain't that close to love?
Well, ain't that poster love?
Well, it ain't that Barbie doll
Her heart's been broken just like you have
...
=
http://www.xahlee.org/Periodic_dosage_dir/sanga_pemci/young_americans.h=

tml

Post by Xah Lee
=
Xah
=E2=88=91 http://xahlee.org/

I had a feeling about this and find the lyrics written elsewhere as =
Blushing at all the afro-Sheeners
which is how it has always sounded to me. I then found
Sheener (n) - old fisherman's taboo-name for the sun
and if I think about the high afro hair maybe a strange bowie
description for that kind of hair halo? Or, maybe a spoof, white man's
black hairdo? some other site has
Art Garfunkel's afro-sheener hairstyle
-- =
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!") =

Afro Sheen is a hair-care product directed toward blacks. It's been around as
long as my memory serves. Let's see what you can make of this.

It wasn't a bad guess and I'm going to assume this is an american
product? I know the stuff exists, but my definition of afro sheener
was a damn site closer than an aussie woman.

[Dennis M. Hammes]

Post by Murray Arnow

Post by Xah Lee
=
In David Bowie's Young Americans lyrics, what does Afro-Sheilas mean?
=
...
Have you been an un-American?
Just you and your idol singing falsetto 'bout
Leather, leather everywhere, and
Not a myth left from the ghetto
Well, well, well, would you carry a razor
In case, just in case of depression
Sit on your hands on a bus of survivors
Blushing at all the Afro-Sheilas
Ain't that close to love?
Well, ain't that poster love?
Well, it ain't that Barbie doll
Her heart's been broken just like you have
...
=
http://www.xahlee.org/Periodic_dosage_dir/sanga_pemci/young_americans.h=

tml

Post by Xah Lee
=
Xah
=E2=88=91 http://xahlee.org/

I had a feeling about this and find the lyrics written elsewhere as =
Blushing at all the afro-Sheeners
which is how it has always sounded to me. I then found
Sheener (n) - old fisherman's taboo-name for the sun
and if I think about the high afro hair maybe a strange bowie
description for that kind of hair halo? Or, maybe a spoof, white man's
black hairdo? some other site has
Art Garfunkel's afro-sheener hairstyle
-- =
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!") =

Afro Sheen is a hair-care product directed toward blacks. It's been around as
long as my memory serves. Let's see what you can make of this.

Heh. You just made all there is to be made of it.
Std. German/English construction, "Afro-Sheener" is "one who uses
Afro-Sheen."

[Beau Blue]

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Xah Lee
In David Bowie's Young Americans lyrics, what does Afro-Sheilas mean?
...
Have you been an un-American?
Just you and your idol singing falsetto 'bout
Leather, leather everywhere, and
Not a myth left from the ghetto
Well, well, well, would you carry a razor
In case, just in case of depression
Sit on your hands on a bus of survivors
Blushing at all the Afro-Sheilas
Ain't that close to love?
Well, ain't that poster love?
Well, it ain't that Barbie doll
Her heart's been broken just like you have
...
http://www.xahlee.org/Periodic_dosage_dir/sanga_pemci/young_americans.html
Xah
∑ http://xahlee.org/

I had a feeling about this and find the lyrics written elsewhere as
Blushing at all the afro-Sheeners

afro sheen: originally - shea butter and mayonnaise.
A shampoo brandname used in the 60s I think, maybe
it was the 70s?

Post by Paul Heslop
which is how it has always sounded to me. I then found
Sheener (n) - old fisherman's taboo-name for the sun
and if I think about the high afro hair maybe a strange bowie
description for that kind of hair halo? Or, maybe a spoof, white man's
black hairdo? some other site has
Art Garfunkel's afro-sheener hairstyle

[Paul Heslop]

Post by Beau Blue

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Xah Lee
In David Bowie's Young Americans lyrics, what does Afro-Sheilas mean?
...
Have you been an un-American?
Just you and your idol singing falsetto 'bout
Leather, leather everywhere, and
Not a myth left from the ghetto
Well, well, well, would you carry a razor
In case, just in case of depression
Sit on your hands on a bus of survivors
Blushing at all the Afro-Sheilas
Ain't that close to love?
Well, ain't that poster love?
Well, it ain't that Barbie doll
Her heart's been broken just like you have
...
http://www.xahlee.org/Periodic_dosage_dir/sanga_pemci/young_americans.html
Xah
∑ http://xahlee.org/

I had a feeling about this and find the lyrics written elsewhere as
Blushing at all the afro-Sheeners

afro sheen: originally - shea butter and mayonnaise.
A shampoo brandname used in the 60s I think, maybe
it was the 70s?

Seems we have a winner :O) So he's blushing at folks walking around
with wetlook afros. I wonder where the afro-sheila got her afro sheen
from? :O))

[Joy Twitcuntre]

Post by Beau Blue

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Xah Lee
In David Bowie's Young Americans lyrics, what does Afro-Sheilas mean?
...
Have you been an un-American?
Just you and your idol singing falsetto 'bout
Leather, leather everywhere, and
Not a myth left from the ghetto
Well, well, well, would you carry a razor
In case, just in case of depression
Sit on your hands on a bus of survivors
Blushing at all the Afro-Sheilas
Ain't that close to love?
Well, ain't that poster love?
Well, it ain't that Barbie doll
Her heart's been broken just like you have
...
http://www.xahlee.org/Periodic_dosage_dir/sanga_pemci/young_americans.html
Xah
â^' http://xahlee.org/

I had a feeling about this and find the lyrics written elsewhere as
Blushing at all the afro-Sheeners

afro sheen: originally - shea butter and mayonnaise.
A shampoo brandname used in the 60s I think, maybe
it was the 70s?

Seems we have a winner :O) So he's blushing at folks walking around
with wetlook afros. I wonder where the afro-sheila got her afro sheen
from? :O))


Soul Train.

[Paul Heslop]

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Beau Blue

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Xah Lee
In David Bowie's Young Americans lyrics, what does Afro-Sheilas mean?
...
Have you been an un-American?
Just you and your idol singing falsetto 'bout
Leather, leather everywhere, and
Not a myth left from the ghetto
Well, well, well, would you carry a razor
In case, just in case of depression
Sit on your hands on a bus of survivors
Blushing at all the Afro-Sheilas
Ain't that close to love?
Well, ain't that poster love?
Well, it ain't that Barbie doll
Her heart's been broken just like you have
...
http://www.xahlee.org/Periodic_dosage_dir/sanga_pemci/young_americans.html
Xah
â^' http://xahlee.org/

I had a feeling about this and find the lyrics written elsewhere as
Blushing at all the afro-Sheeners

afro sheen: originally - shea butter and mayonnaise.
A shampoo brandname used in the 60s I think, maybe
it was the 70s?

Seems we have a winner :O) So he's blushing at folks walking around
with wetlook afros. I wonder where the afro-sheila got her afro sheen
from? :O))
Soul Train.

did it run her over?

[Joy Twitcuntre]

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Beau Blue

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Xah Lee
In David Bowie's Young Americans lyrics, what does Afro-Sheilas mean?
...
Have you been an un-American?
Just you and your idol singing falsetto 'bout
Leather, leather everywhere, and
Not a myth left from the ghetto
Well, well, well, would you carry a razor
In case, just in case of depression
Sit on your hands on a bus of survivors
Blushing at all the Afro-Sheilas
Ain't that close to love?
Well, ain't that poster love?
Well, it ain't that Barbie doll
Her heart's been broken just like you have
...
http://www.xahlee.org/Periodic_dosage_dir/sanga_pemci/young_americans.html
Xah
â^' http://xahlee.org/

I had a feeling about this and find the lyrics written elsewhere as
Blushing at all the afro-Sheeners

afro sheen: originally - shea butter and mayonnaise.
A shampoo brandname used in the 60s I think, maybe
it was the 70s?

Seems we have a winner :O) So he's blushing at folks walking around
with wetlook afros. I wonder where the afro-sheila got her afro sheen
from? :O))
Soul Train.

did it run her over?

Don Cornelius

[Paul Heslop]

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Beau Blue

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Xah Lee
In David Bowie's Young Americans lyrics, what does Afro-Sheilas mean?
...
Have you been an un-American?
Just you and your idol singing falsetto 'bout
Leather, leather everywhere, and
Not a myth left from the ghetto
Well, well, well, would you carry a razor
In case, just in case of depression
Sit on your hands on a bus of survivors
Blushing at all the Afro-Sheilas
Ain't that close to love?
Well, ain't that poster love?
Well, it ain't that Barbie doll
Her heart's been broken just like you have
...
http://www.xahlee.org/Periodic_dosage_dir/sanga_pemci/young_americans.html
Xah
â^' http://xahlee.org/

I had a feeling about this and find the lyrics written elsewhere as
Blushing at all the afro-Sheeners

afro sheen: originally - shea butter and mayonnaise.
A shampoo brandname used in the 60s I think, maybe
it was the 70s?

Seems we have a winner :O) So he's blushing at folks walking around
with wetlook afros. I wonder where the afro-sheila got her afro sheen
from? :O))
Soul Train.

did it run her over?
Don Cornelius

don your trousers

[d***@sbcglobal.net]

Soul Train - Don Cornelius Productions

http://www.soultraintv.com/st/arch.html

... since '71.

I'm sure they sold it. :)

[Will Dockery]

Post by d***@sbcglobal.net
Soul Train - Don Cornelius Productions
http://www.soultraintv.com/st/arch.html
... since '71.
I'm sure they sold it. :)

Hell, Don Cornelius used it by the gallon!

--
Shadowville/Netherlands project:
http://www.kannibaal.nl/shadowville.htm

"Mirror Twins" [Will Dockery]
http://www.lulu.com/items/29000/29085/preview/Will_Dockery_-_03_-_Track__3.mp3

[ray o'hara]

Post by d***@sbcglobal.net
Soul Train - Don Cornelius Productions

Was there ever an un-hipper Black guy than Don? Great show though.

[Paul Heslop]

Post by d***@sbcglobal.net
Soul Train - Don Cornelius Productions
http://www.soultraintv.com/st/arch.html
... since '71.
I'm sure they sold it. :)

:O) They probably MADE it

[Dillman Thomas]

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by d***@sbcglobal.net
Soul Train - Don Cornelius Productions
http://www.soultraintv.com/st/arch.html
... since '71.
I'm sure they sold it. :)

:O) They probably MADE it

/Vertical/ carpeting.

:)

Post by Paul Heslop
--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!")
-------------------------------------------------------
Stop and Look
http://www.geocities.com/dreamst8me/

[Paul Heslop]

Post by Dillman Thomas

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by d***@sbcglobal.net
Soul Train - Don Cornelius Productions
http://www.soultraintv.com/st/arch.html
... since '71.
I'm sure they sold it. :)

:O) They probably MADE it

/Vertical/ carpeting.
:)

heh heh

[Dennis M. Hammes]

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Beau Blue

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Xah Lee
In David Bowie's Young Americans lyrics, what does Afro-Sheilas mean?
...
Have you been an un-American?
Just you and your idol singing falsetto 'bout
Leather, leather everywhere, and
Not a myth left from the ghetto
Well, well, well, would you carry a razor
In case, just in case of depression
Sit on your hands on a bus of survivors
Blushing at all the Afro-Sheilas
Ain't that close to love?
Well, ain't that poster love?
Well, it ain't that Barbie doll
Her heart's been broken just like you have
...
http://www.xahlee.org/Periodic_dosage_dir/sanga_pemci/young_americans.html
Xah
∑ http://xahlee.org/

I had a feeling about this and find the lyrics written elsewhere as
Blushing at all the afro-Sheeners

afro sheen: originally - shea butter and mayonnaise.
A shampoo brandname used in the 60s I think, maybe
it was the 70s?

Seems we have a winner :O) So he's blushing at folks walking around
with wetlook afros. I wonder where the afro-sheila got her afro sheen
from? :O))

Somebody who doesn't know "Afro-Sheen" would attempt to make sense of
the heard noise, and a "sheila" is a young girl. The reconstructed
term also makes sense, just not the original sense, in the context.
It's also a poorer fit; not only does it exclude males from the
original observation, "shiela" is an Irish term now also common Down
Under.

[Paul Heslop]

Post by Dennis M. Hammes

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Beau Blue

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Xah Lee
In David Bowie's Young Americans lyrics, what does Afro-Sheilas mean?
...
Have you been an un-American?
Just you and your idol singing falsetto 'bout
Leather, leather everywhere, and
Not a myth left from the ghetto
Well, well, well, would you carry a razor
In case, just in case of depression
Sit on your hands on a bus of survivors
Blushing at all the Afro-Sheilas
Ain't that close to love?
Well, ain't that poster love?
Well, it ain't that Barbie doll
Her heart's been broken just like you have
...
http://www.xahlee.org/Periodic_dosage_dir/sanga_pemci/young_americans.html
Xah
∑ http://xahlee.org/

I had a feeling about this and find the lyrics written elsewhere as
Blushing at all the afro-Sheeners

afro sheen: originally - shea butter and mayonnaise.
A shampoo brandname used in the 60s I think, maybe
it was the 70s?

Seems we have a winner :O) So he's blushing at folks walking around
with wetlook afros. I wonder where the afro-sheila got her afro sheen
from? :O))

Somebody who doesn't know "Afro-Sheen" would attempt to make sense of
the heard noise, and a "sheila" is a young girl. The reconstructed
term also makes sense, just not the original sense, in the context.
It's also a poorer fit; not only does it exclude males from the
original observation, "shiela" is an Irish term now also common Down
Under.
--
-------(m+
~/:o)_|
The only thing that doesn't change
is that nothing changes. -- Herakleitos
http://scrawlmark.org

I agree, it doesn't make sense and although David likes to be obscure
sometimes he was writing a tribute to young americans, not irish or
aussies. Anyway, no matter how i try my ears hear sheener.

[Dennis M. Hammes]

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Dennis M. Hammes

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Beau Blue

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Xah Lee
In David Bowie's Young Americans lyrics, what does Afro-Sheilas mean?
...
Have you been an un-American?
Just you and your idol singing falsetto 'bout
Leather, leather everywhere, and
Not a myth left from the ghetto
Well, well, well, would you carry a razor
In case, just in case of depression
Sit on your hands on a bus of survivors
Blushing at all the Afro-Sheilas
Ain't that close to love?
Well, ain't that poster love?
Well, it ain't that Barbie doll
Her heart's been broken just like you have
...
http://www.xahlee.org/Periodic_dosage_dir/sanga_pemci/young_americans.html
Xah
∑ http://xahlee.org/

I had a feeling about this and find the lyrics written elsewhere as
Blushing at all the afro-Sheeners

afro sheen: originally - shea butter and mayonnaise.
A shampoo brandname used in the 60s I think, maybe
it was the 70s?

Seems we have a winner :O) So he's blushing at folks walking around
with wetlook afros. I wonder where the afro-sheila got her afro sheen
from? :O))

Somebody who doesn't know "Afro-Sheen" would attempt to make sense of
the heard noise, and a "sheila" is a young girl. The reconstructed
term also makes sense, just not the original sense, in the context.
It's also a poorer fit; not only does it exclude males from the
original observation, "shiela" is an Irish term now also common Down
Under.
--
-------(m+
~/:o)_|
The only thing that doesn't change
is that nothing changes. -- Herakleitos
http://scrawlmark.org

I agree, it doesn't make sense and although David likes to be obscure
sometimes he was writing a tribute to young americans, not irish or
aussies. Anyway, no matter how i try my ears hear sheener.

I'd certainly think so, still, if for no other reason than that Occam
wants it in the case.
I saw the "Misheard Lyrics" site, which unfortunately doesn't
provenance its "correct version:"s, and whose "lyrics" buttons are
merely self-referent. In Dockery's poast of the putative original,
the /first/ "speaker" in the lyrics is a girl, appearently Collegiate
White, who appears to have been dumped or left pregnant, and is
blushing at the Afro-Sheeners on the bus.
For the later male speaker to be blushing at "Afro-shielas"
doesn't fit /anything/ except an autopsy of how many of whose
mishearings (including published ones) became Apostolic Succession On
The Curve.
I'm waiting for Dockery (yeh, relly ekchully) to poast his
garage-findings, the "original insert" he mentions.
It if really is "shielas," Bowie is a lot less than history and
the industry credit him for (whether /I/ like him or not), but I've
exhausted all /my/ evidence in his favor, and must end my argument at
that point.

[Michael Cook]

Post by Dennis M. Hammes

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Dennis M. Hammes

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Beau Blue

Post by Xah Lee

Post by Xah Lee
In David Bowie's Young Americans lyrics, what does Afro-Sheilas mean?
...
Have you been an un-American?
Just you and your idol singing falsetto 'bout
Leather, leather everywhere, and
Not a myth left from the ghetto
Well, well, well, would you carry a razor
In case, just in case of depression
Sit on your hands on a bus of survivors
Blushing at all the Afro-Sheilas
Ain't that close to love?
Well, ain't that poster love?
Well, it ain't that Barbie doll
Her heart's been broken just like you have
...

http://www.xahlee.org/Periodic_dosage_dir/sanga_pemci/young_americans.

html

Post by Dennis M. Hammes

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Dennis M. Hammes

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Beau Blue

Post by Xah Lee

Post by Xah Lee
Xah
∑ http://xahlee.org/

I had a feeling about this and find the lyrics written elsewhere as
Blushing at all the afro-Sheeners

afro sheen: originally - shea butter and mayonnaise.
A shampoo brandname used in the 60s I think, maybe
it was the 70s?

Seems we have a winner :O) So he's blushing at folks walking around
with wetlook afros. I wonder where the afro-sheila got her afro sheen
from? :O))

Somebody who doesn't know "Afro-Sheen" would attempt to make sense of
the heard noise, and a "sheila" is a young girl. The reconstructed
term also makes sense, just not the original sense, in the context.
It's also a poorer fit; not only does it exclude males from the
original observation, "shiela" is an Irish term now also common Down
Under.
--
-------(m+
~/:o)_|
The only thing that doesn't change
is that nothing changes. -- Herakleitos
http://scrawlmark.org

I agree, it doesn't make sense and although David likes to be obscure
sometimes he was writing a tribute to young americans, not irish or
aussies. Anyway, no matter how i try my ears hear sheener.

I'd certainly think so, still, if for no other reason than that Occam
wants it in the case.
I saw the "Misheard Lyrics" site, which unfortunately doesn't
provenance its "correct version:"s, and whose "lyrics" buttons are
merely self-referent. In Dockery's poast of the putative original,
the /first/ "speaker" in the lyrics is a girl, appearently Collegiate
White, who appears to have been dumped or left pregnant, and is
blushing at the Afro-Sheeners on the bus.
For the later male speaker to be blushing at "Afro-shielas"
doesn't fit /anything/ except an autopsy of how many of whose
mishearings (including published ones) became Apostolic Succession On
The Curve.
I'm waiting for Dockery (yeh, relly ekchully) to poast his
garage-findings, the "original insert" he mentions.
It if really is "shielas," Bowie is a lot less than history and
the industry credit him for (whether /I/ like him or not), but I've
exhausted all /my/ evidence in his favor, and must end my argument at
that point.
--
-------(m+
~/:o)_|
The only thing that doesn't change
is that nothing changes. -- Herakleitos

http://scrawlmark.org

nice job on the logo
mdc

[Paul Heslop]

Post by Dennis M. Hammes

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Dennis M. Hammes

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Beau Blue

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Xah Lee
In David Bowie's Young Americans lyrics, what does Afro-Sheilas mean?
...
Have you been an un-American?
Just you and your idol singing falsetto 'bout
Leather, leather everywhere, and
Not a myth left from the ghetto
Well, well, well, would you carry a razor
In case, just in case of depression
Sit on your hands on a bus of survivors
Blushing at all the Afro-Sheilas
Ain't that close to love?
Well, ain't that poster love?
Well, it ain't that Barbie doll
Her heart's been broken just like you have
...
http://www.xahlee.org/Periodic_dosage_dir/sanga_pemci/young_americans.html
Xah
∑ http://xahlee.org/

I had a feeling about this and find the lyrics written elsewhere as
Blushing at all the afro-Sheeners

afro sheen: originally - shea butter and mayonnaise.
A shampoo brandname used in the 60s I think, maybe
it was the 70s?

Seems we have a winner :O) So he's blushing at folks walking around
with wetlook afros. I wonder where the afro-sheila got her afro sheen
from? :O))

Somebody who doesn't know "Afro-Sheen" would attempt to make sense of
the heard noise, and a "sheila" is a young girl. The reconstructed
term also makes sense, just not the original sense, in the context.
It's also a poorer fit; not only does it exclude males from the
original observation, "shiela" is an Irish term now also common Down
Under.
--
-------(m+
~/:o)_|
The only thing that doesn't change
is that nothing changes. -- Herakleitos
http://scrawlmark.org

I agree, it doesn't make sense and although David likes to be obscure
sometimes he was writing a tribute to young americans, not irish or
aussies. Anyway, no matter how i try my ears hear sheener.

I'd certainly think so, still, if for no other reason than that Occam
wants it in the case.
I saw the "Misheard Lyrics" site, which unfortunately doesn't
provenance its "correct version:"s, and whose "lyrics" buttons are
merely self-referent. In Dockery's poast of the putative original,
the /first/ "speaker" in the lyrics is a girl, appearently Collegiate
White, who appears to have been dumped or left pregnant, and is
blushing at the Afro-Sheeners on the bus.
For the later male speaker to be blushing at "Afro-shielas"
doesn't fit /anything/ except an autopsy of how many of whose
mishearings (including published ones) became Apostolic Succession On
The Curve.
I'm waiting for Dockery (yeh, relly ekchully) to poast his
garage-findings, the "original insert" he mentions.
It if really is "shielas," Bowie is a lot less than history and
the industry credit him for (whether /I/ like him or not), but I've
exhausted all /my/ evidence in his favor, and must end my argument at
that point.
--
-------(m+
~/:o)_|
The only thing that doesn't change
is that nothing changes. -- Herakleitos
http://scrawlmark.org

It'll do me, my ears and my eyes cannot accept Sheila. It doesn't fit
the man in any way, nor the song.

[Dennis M. Hammes]

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Dennis M. Hammes

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Dennis M. Hammes

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Beau Blue

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Xah Lee
In David Bowie's Young Americans lyrics, what does Afro-Sheilas mean?
...
Have you been an un-American?
Just you and your idol singing falsetto 'bout
Leather, leather everywhere, and
Not a myth left from the ghetto
Well, well, well, would you carry a razor
In case, just in case of depression
Sit on your hands on a bus of survivors
Blushing at all the Afro-Sheilas
Ain't that close to love?
Well, ain't that poster love?
Well, it ain't that Barbie doll
Her heart's been broken just like you have
...
http://www.xahlee.org/Periodic_dosage_dir/sanga_pemci/young_americans.html
Xah
∑ http://xahlee.org/

I had a feeling about this and find the lyrics written elsewhere as
Blushing at all the afro-Sheeners

afro sheen: originally - shea butter and mayonnaise.
A shampoo brandname used in the 60s I think, maybe
it was the 70s?

Seems we have a winner :O) So he's blushing at folks walking around
with wetlook afros. I wonder where the afro-sheila got her afro sheen
from? :O))

Somebody who doesn't know "Afro-Sheen" would attempt to make sense of
the heard noise, and a "sheila" is a young girl. The reconstructed
term also makes sense, just not the original sense, in the context.
It's also a poorer fit; not only does it exclude males from the
original observation, "shiela" is an Irish term now also common Down
Under.
--
-------(m+
~/:o)_|
The only thing that doesn't change
is that nothing changes. -- Herakleitos
http://scrawlmark.org

I agree, it doesn't make sense and although David likes to be obscure
sometimes he was writing a tribute to young americans, not irish or
aussies. Anyway, no matter how i try my ears hear sheener.

I'd certainly think so, still, if for no other reason than that Occam
wants it in the case.
I saw the "Misheard Lyrics" site, which unfortunately doesn't
provenance its "correct version:"s, and whose "lyrics" buttons are
merely self-referent. In Dockery's poast of the putative original,
the /first/ "speaker" in the lyrics is a girl, appearently Collegiate
White, who appears to have been dumped or left pregnant, and is
blushing at the Afro-Sheeners on the bus.
For the later male speaker to be blushing at "Afro-shielas"
doesn't fit /anything/ except an autopsy of how many of whose
mishearings (including published ones) became Apostolic Succession On
The Curve.
I'm waiting for Dockery (yeh, relly ekchully) to poast his
garage-findings, the "original insert" he mentions.
It if really is "shielas," Bowie is a lot less than history and
the industry credit him for (whether /I/ like him or not), but I've
exhausted all /my/ evidence in his favor, and must end my argument at
that point.
--
-------(m+
~/:o)_|
The only thing that doesn't change
is that nothing changes. -- Herakleitos
http://scrawlmark.org

It'll do me, my ears and my eyes cannot accept Sheila. It doesn't fit
the man in any way, nor the song.

Precisely.

[Will Dockery]

Post by Beau Blue

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Xah Lee
In David Bowie's Young Americans lyrics, what does Afro-Sheilas mean?
...
Have you been an un-American?
Just you and your idol singing falsetto 'bout
Leather, leather everywhere, and
Not a myth left from the ghetto
Well, well, well, would you carry a razor
In case, just in case of depression
Sit on your hands on a bus of survivors
Blushing at all the Afro-Sheilas
Ain't that close to love?
Well, ain't that poster love?
Well, it ain't that Barbie doll
Her heart's been broken just like you have
...
http://www.xahlee.org/Periodic_dosage_dir/sanga_pemci/young_americans.html
Xah
∑ http://xahlee.org/

I had a feeling about this and find the lyrics written elsewhere as
Blushing at all the afro-Sheeners

afro sheen: originally - shea butter and mayonnaise.
A shampoo brandname used in the 60s I think, maybe
it was the 70s?

Post by Paul Heslop
which is how it has always sounded to me. I then found
Sheener (n) - old fisherman's taboo-name for the sun
and if I think about the high afro hair maybe a strange bowie
description for that kind of hair halo? Or, maybe a spoof, white man's
black hairdo? some other site has
Art Garfunkel's afro-sheener hairstyle

Afro Sheen, it'd make the fro stand up well and rounded, for the /big/
fros of the 1970s... these guys /always/ had the big "afro picks" in
their back pockets. I didn't use the "sheen", opting for the dry and
abstract "jew fro", but I always kept a pick in my back pocket, not for
combing, but for the fact that the long needle-like bristles on the
pick worked well as a /shank/ in a desperate situation.

Shadowville 1970s at Carver High, there were /plenty/ of desperate
situations.

Afro Pick images:
<http://tinyurl.com/dr66w>

Afro Sheen was gradually replaced in popularity with the down home
folks by the Jerry Curl in the 1980s at the spinning mill.

--
"Mirror Twins" [Will Dockery]
<http://www.lulu.com/items/29000/29085/preview/Will_Dockery_-_03_-_Track__3.mp3>

"Black Eagle Lady" [Will Dockery/Henry Conley]
http://www.lulu.com/items/84000/84578/1/preview/Henry_Conley_-_06_-_Black_Eagle_Lady.mp3

[Evan Kirshenbaum]

Post by Will Dockery
Afro Sheen, it'd make the fro stand up well and rounded, for the
/big/ fros of the 1970s... these guys /always/ had the big "afro
picks" in their back pockets.

Back pockets or back of the fro? I seem to remember the latter as
more common.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |When correctly viewed,
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 | Everything is lewd.
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |I could tell you things
| about Peter Pan,
***@hpl.hp.com |and the Wizard of Oz--
[phone] | there's a dirty old man!
| Tom Lehrer
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/

[Donna Richoux]

Post by Paul Heslop
I had a feeling about this and find the lyrics written elsewhere as
Blushing at all the afro-Sheeners
which is how it has always sounded to me. I then found
Sheener (n) - old fisherman's taboo-name for the sun
and if I think about the high afro hair maybe a strange bowie
description for that kind of hair halo? Or, maybe a spoof, white man's
black hairdo? some other site has
Art Garfunkel's afro-sheener hairstyle

Well, then, you have to bring in "sheeny" as one of the (nearly
obsolete?) derogatory slang terms for "Jew." Garfunkel's web site
indicates he had a Jewish upbringing, at least.

Etymological considerations discussed here:
http://kpearson.faculty.tcnj.edu/Dictionary/sheeny.htm

[Paul Heslop]

Post by Donna Richoux

Post by Paul Heslop
I had a feeling about this and find the lyrics written elsewhere as
Blushing at all the afro-Sheeners
which is how it has always sounded to me. I then found
Sheener (n) - old fisherman's taboo-name for the sun
and if I think about the high afro hair maybe a strange bowie
description for that kind of hair halo? Or, maybe a spoof, white man's
black hairdo? some other site has
Art Garfunkel's afro-sheener hairstyle

Well, then, you have to bring in "sheeny" as one of the (nearly
obsolete?) derogatory slang terms for "Jew." Garfunkel's web site
indicates he had a Jewish upbringing, at least.
http://kpearson.faculty.tcnj.edu/Dictionary/sheeny.htm
--
Best -- Donna Richoux

Pretty sure he was brought up jewish. Old Dave did have a short
fascist thing going on at one time, but afro-jews? :O)

[Xah Lee]

i can't find the site in a hurry now, but few days ago i recall two
David Bowie sites indicating common lyrics mistakes pointed out that
it's actually Afro-Sheilas, not afro-sheeners.

Paul Heslop's theory of blushing at pretty blacks seems more sound to
me.

Xah
***@xahlee.org
∑ http://xahlee.org/

[Will Dockery]

Post by Xah Lee
i can't find the site in a hurry now, but few days ago i recall two
David Bowie sites indicating common lyrics mistakes pointed out that
it's actually Afro-Sheilas, not afro-sheeners.

In 1975, the single was on the radio, Afro Sheen was a popular product
here in the hinterlands, though, so that's what it sounded like he was
singing when it'd blast out of the busted up car radio speakers...

Post by Xah Lee
Paul Heslop's theory of blushing at pretty blacks seems more sound to
me.

"I wanna be black, I wanna be a Panther and have a girlfriend named
Samantha... and have a big prick too." -Lou Reed, 1976

--
"Mirror Twins" [Will Dockery]
<http://www.lulu.com/items/29000/29085/preview/Will_Dockery_-_03_-_Track__3.mp3>

"Black Eagle Lady" [Will Dockery/Henry Conley]
http://www.lulu.com/items/84000/84578/1/preview/Henry_Conley_-_06_-_Black_Eagle_Lady.mp3

[Paul Heslop]

Post by Xah Lee
i can't find the site in a hurry now, but few days ago i recall two
David Bowie sites indicating common lyrics mistakes pointed out that
it's actually Afro-Sheilas, not afro-sheeners.
Paul Heslop's theory of blushing at pretty blacks seems more sound to
me.
Xah
∑ http://xahlee.org/

I tried to find the lyrics at a site which I find usually has the
correct ones, but for some reason this one song off the album was not
available. I must say though as an ardent Bowie fan the words have
always struck me as afro-sheeners... and I never gave them a thought.

[Will Dockery]

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Xah Lee
i can't find the site in a hurry now, but few days ago i recall two
David Bowie sites indicating common lyrics mistakes pointed out that
it's actually Afro-Sheilas, not afro-sheeners.
Paul Heslop's theory of blushing at pretty blacks seems more sound to
me.

I tried to find the lyrics at a site which I find usually has the
correct ones, but for some reason this one song off the album was not
available. I must say though as an ardent Bowie fan the words have
always struck me as afro-sheeners... and I never gave them a thought.

Same here. The Young Americans album, as with all new Bowie in those
days after Ziggy Stardust and before Let's Dance were essential
listening, and opened the door for a new audience with my black friends
at Carver High, who already had taken Elton John into the 1975 sceen of
big hair and funky sound... and Afro Sheen glistened through the
halls...

Here's the words, with the chords:

----
YOUNG AMERICANS

intro: C, Dm, F, G (4x)

C
They pulled in just behind the fridge
Dm
He lays her down-he frowns
F
"Gee my life's a funny thing
G
Am I still too young"
C
He kissed her then and there
Dm
She took his ring, took his babies
F
It took him minutes, took her nowhere
G
Heaven knows she'dve taken anything

CHORUS:
F G
All night-she want s the young American
C Dm
Young American, young American
she wants the young American
F G
It's all right-but she wants the young American

Scanning life thru the picture window
She finds the slinky vagabond
He coughs as he passes her Ford Mustang
Heaven forbid she'll take anything
But the freak and his type-all for nothing
Misses a step and cuts his hand
Showing nothing he swoops like a song
She cries "where have all papa's heroes gone?"

All night-she want s the young American
Young American, young American
she wants the young American
It's all right-but she wants the young American

All the way from Washington
He breadwinner begs of the bathroom floor
"Live for just these twenty years
Do we have to die for the fifty more?"

All night-he want s the young American
Young American, young American
he wants the young American
It's all right-but he wants the young American...

interlude: Am, G, F, G

bridge:
Am G C
Do you remember your President Nixon?
Am G F
So you remember the bills you have to pay
E
or even yesterday?

break: D, G(ii), G(iii), D(ii), A(ii)

D
Have you been the un-American
Em
Just you and your id singing falsetto 'bout
G
leather, leather everywhere and
A
not a myth left from the Ghetto
D
Well, well, well would you carry a razor?
Em
In case, just in case of depression
G
Sit on your hands on a bus of survivors
A
Blushing at all the afro-sheeners
Ain't that close to love?
Well ain't that poster love?
Well it ain't that brbie doll
Her hearts have been broken just like you

G A
All night-you want the young American
D Em
Young American, young American
you want the young American
G A
It's all right-you want the young American

You ain't a pimp and you ain't a hustler
Pimps got a Caddy-lady got a Chrysler
Black's got respect-white's got his soul train
Mama's got cramps and look at your hands hey
"I heard the news today, oh boy"
I got-suite and you got defeat
Ain't there a man-who could say no more
Ain't there a woman-I can sock on the jaw
Ain't there a child-I can hold without judging
Ain't there a pen-that will write before they die
Ain't you proud-that you've still got faces
and ain't there one damn song that can make me
break down and cry...

All night-I want the young American
Young American, young American
I want the young American
It's all right-I want the young American

-David Bowie
----

I've still got the otiginal album on vinyl, out in the shed, lyric
sheet was enclosed in /ALL CAPS/ [a BabyMash influence, perhaps?] and
I'll go dig it out, eventually and have a gander at it, and report
back.

--
"Does she give head?" -Elvis Presley

"Sea Weed Fox" [Will Dockery]
http://www.lulu.com/items/36000/36412/preview/Irony_Waves_-_Track__8.mp3

"Karma Bombs" [Will Dockery]
http://www.lulu.com/items/32000/32109/preview/Karma_Bombs.mp3

[ray o'hara]

Post by Xah Lee
i can't find the site in a hurry now, but few days ago i recall two
David Bowie sites indicating common lyrics mistakes pointed out that
it's actually Afro-Sheilas, not afro-sheeners.
Paul Heslop's theory of blushing at pretty blacks seems more sound to
me.
Xah
â^' http://xahlee.org/

I tried to find the lyrics at a site which I find usually has the
correct ones, but for some reason this one song off the album was not
available. I must say though as an ardent Bowie fan the words have
always struck me as afro-sheeners... and I never gave them a thought.

--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!")
-------------------------------------------------------
The URL posted has all his lyrics toall his songs. glick on the album cover
you wish to see the lyrica of , in this case Young American


www.mattsmusicpage.com/bowlyric.htm -

[Paul Heslop]

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Xah Lee
i can't find the site in a hurry now, but few days ago i recall two
David Bowie sites indicating common lyrics mistakes pointed out that
it's actually Afro-Sheilas, not afro-sheeners.
Paul Heslop's theory of blushing at pretty blacks seems more sound to
me.
Xah
â^' http://xahlee.org/

I tried to find the lyrics at a site which I find usually has the
correct ones, but for some reason this one song off the album was not
available. I must say though as an ardent Bowie fan the words have
always struck me as afro-sheeners... and I never gave them a thought.
--
Paul (And I'm, like, "yeah, whatever!")
-------------------------------------------------------
The URL posted has all his lyrics toall his songs. glick on the album cover
you wish to see the lyrica of , in this case Young American
www.mattsmusicpage.com/bowlyric.htm -

yeah, I posted 'official' ones which contained sheeners aswell. I was
tempted to sign in to the bowie site and see if they can answer it but
decided he might think I'm a stalker or pedantic nut case :O))

[Dennis M. Hammes]

Post by Paul Heslop

Post by Donna Richoux

Post by Paul Heslop
I had a feeling about this and find the lyrics written elsewhere as
Blushing at all the afro-Sheeners
which is how it has always sounded to me. I then found
Sheener (n) - old fisherman's taboo-name for the sun
and if I think about the high afro hair maybe a strange bowie
description for that kind of hair halo? Or, maybe a spoof, white man's
black hairdo? some other site has
Art Garfunkel's afro-sheener hairstyle

Well, then, you have to bring in "sheeny" as one of the (nearly
obsolete?) derogatory slang terms for "Jew." Garfunkel's web site
indicates he had a Jewish upbringing, at least.
http://kpearson.faculty.tcnj.edu/Dictionary/sheeny.htm
--
Best -- Donna Richoux

Pretty sure he was brought up jewish. Old Dave did have a short
fascist thing going on at one time, but afro-jews? :O)

Nope. The reference is to the similarity of the hairstyle only,
probably an easy reference when the product was popular.

[Paul Heslop]

Post by Dennis M. Hammes

Post by Paul Heslop
Pretty sure he was brought up jewish. Old Dave did have a short
fascist thing going on at one time, but afro-jews? :O)

Nope. The reference is to the similarity of the hairstyle only,
probably an easy reference when the product was popular.
--

Yup

[Stuart Leichter]

Post by Donna Richoux

Post by Paul Heslop
I had a feeling about this and find the lyrics written elsewhere as
Blushing at all the afro-Sheeners
which is how it has always sounded to me. I then found
Sheener (n) - old fisherman's taboo-name for the sun
and if I think about the high afro hair maybe a strange bowie
description for that kind of hair halo? Or, maybe a spoof, white man's
black hairdo? some other site has
Art Garfunkel's afro-sheener hairstyle

Well, then, you have to bring in "sheeny" as one of the (nearly
obsolete?) derogatory slang terms for "Jew." Garfunkel's web site
indicates he had a Jewish upbringing, at least.

It was revived in 1966 in The Pawnbroker by Nazerman, when I first heard it.

Post by Donna Richoux
http://kpearson.faculty.tcnj.edu/Dictionary/sheeny.htm

It's surprising that the Hebrew letter (called 'sheen' in English,
pronounced as 'sh-' or 's-') has no place in the etymological
considerations. That 'W'-looking Hebrew letter, prominent in 'kosher', would
have stood out (and still does) on shop windows.

[Evan Kirshenbaum]

Post by Stuart Leichter
It's surprising that the Hebrew letter (called 'sheen' in English,
pronounced as 'sh-' or 's-') has no place in the etymological
considerations. That 'W'-looking Hebrew letter, prominent in
'kosher', would have stood out (and still does) on shop windows.

I suspect that that's because the letter is, in my experience, "shin",
not "sheen" in English (and Hebrew and Yiddish). The derivation from
"shayner", especially in phrases like "shayner yid"[1], has always
seemed the most likely.

[1] Literally "beautiful Jew", but more like "fine, upstanding Jew".
A Jew's Jew.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |Bullwinkle: You sure that's the
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 | only way?
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |Rocky: Well, if you're going to be
| a hero, you've got to do
***@hpl.hp.com | stupid things every once in
[phone] | a while.

http://www.kirshenbaum.net/

[PJR]

Post by Evan Kirshenbaum

Post by Stuart Leichter
It's surprising that the Hebrew letter (called 'sheen' in English,
pronounced as 'sh-' or 's-') has no place in the etymological
considerations. That 'W'-looking Hebrew letter, prominent in
'kosher', would have stood out (and still does) on shop windows.

I suspect that that's because the letter is, in my experience, "shin",
not "sheen" in English (and Hebrew and Yiddish).

However, the vowel was originally long, as is shown by the fact that
the letter-name transliterable as "shîn" (or "sîn") contains the
consonant transliterable as "yôdh". Perhaps a "shîn-er" would be a
person who can pronounce "shibboleth", unlike the "sinners" who can't?

obAUE: is "transliterable" a word? "Transliteratable" is too horrid to
be thinkable.

PJR :-)

[Dennis M. Hammes]

Post by PJR

Post by Evan Kirshenbaum

Post by Stuart Leichter
It's surprising that the Hebrew letter (called 'sheen' in English,
pronounced as 'sh-' or 's-') has no place in the etymological
considerations. That 'W'-looking Hebrew letter, prominent in
'kosher', would have stood out (and still does) on shop windows.

I suspect that that's because the letter is, in my experience, "shin",
not "sheen" in English (and Hebrew and Yiddish).

However, the vowel was originally long, as is shown by the fact that
the letter-name transliterable as "shîn" (or "sîn") contains the
consonant transliterable as "yôdh". Perhaps a "shîn-er" would be a
person who can pronounce "shibboleth", unlike the "sinners" who can't?
obAUE: is "transliterable" a word? "Transliteratable" is too horrid to
be thinkable.
PJR :-)

Heh. Yes, and yes.
But the construct, "shibboleth," is rather older than English
"sinner," hm? Good joke anyway.

[Stuart Leichter]

Post by Evan Kirshenbaum

Post by Stuart Leichter
It's surprising that the Hebrew letter (called 'sheen' in English,
pronounced as 'sh-' or 's-') has no place in the etymological
considerations. That 'W'-looking Hebrew letter, prominent in
'kosher', would have stood out (and still does) on shop windows.

I suspect that that's because the letter is, in my experience, "shin",
not "sheen" in English (and Hebrew and Yiddish). The derivation from
"shayner", especially in phrases like "shayner yid"[1], has always
seemed the most likely.

In my experience the Hebrew letters have been pronounced 'sheen'/'seen'.
WNW4 confirms my experience. Thus, it is still surprising.

It's more surprising that German or Yiddish 'schoen' or 'sch[o-umlaut]n'
would become 'sheen' in English, especially since it became 'shayne(r)' in
'Yinglish'. English and American Yiddishers don't preserve the Germanic
vowel pronunciation, and ModE 'sheen' derives from ME and OE, not G.

Post by Evan Kirshenbaum
[1] Literally "beautiful Jew", but more like "fine, upstanding Jew".
A Jew's Jew.

A mensch by any other name is no schnorer or goniff.
--

Stuart

[Evan Kirshenbaum]

Post by Stuart Leichter

Post by Evan Kirshenbaum

Post by Stuart Leichter
It's surprising that the Hebrew letter (called 'sheen' in English,
pronounced as 'sh-' or 's-') has no place in the etymological
considerations. That 'W'-looking Hebrew letter, prominent in
'kosher', would have stood out (and still does) on shop windows.

I suspect that that's because the letter is, in my experience,
"shin", not "sheen" in English (and Hebrew and Yiddish). The
derivation from "shayner", especially in phrases like "shayner
yid"[1], has always seemed the most likely.

In my experience the Hebrew letters have been pronounced
'sheen'/'seen'. WNW4 confirms my experience. Thus, it is still
surprising.

I see that MWCD11 gives it both ways (though they spell it "shin").
I've only heard /SIn/ ("shin"). YIVO transliterates the name of the
Yiddish letter as "shin", but that doesn't give much help, because
that could either be /I/ ("ih") or /i/ ("ee"). The online Yiddish
dictionary at

http://www.yiddishdictionaryonline.com/

just spells it as the single letter, so there's no way to tell whether
the yud would have a dot under it (indicating a long /i/) if a Yiddish
speaker wrote it.

Post by Stuart Leichter
It's more surprising that German or Yiddish 'schoen' or 'sch[o-umlaut]n'
would become 'sheen' in English, especially since it became 'shayne(r)' in
'Yinglish'. English and American Yiddishers don't preserve the Germanic
vowel pronunciation,

Neither did Europeans. The word is spelled "shin tzvey yudn nun", and
the official YIVO transliteration is "sheyn", pronounced /SeIn/
("shane"). (Their gloss on the vowel at

http://www.yivo.org/yiddish/alefbeys.htm

is "a as in date".)

But in any case, it seems much more likely that people would hear
somebody describing themselves or another Jew /SeInR/ or /SeIn@/ in a
thick accent and turn that into /Sini/ as a description than that they
would take their slur from the middle letter of a word they can't read
written in an alphabet whose letters they almost certainly don't know
the names of.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |Other computer companies have spent
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |15 years working on fault-tolerant
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |computers. Microsoft has spent
|its time more fruitfully, working
***@hpl.hp.com |on fault-tolerant *users*.
[phone]

http://www.kirshenbaum.net/

[Stuart Leichter]

Post by Evan Kirshenbaum

Post by Stuart Leichter

Post by Evan Kirshenbaum

Post by Stuart Leichter
It's surprising that the Hebrew letter (called 'sheen' in English,
pronounced as 'sh-' or 's-') has no place in the etymological
considerations. That 'W'-looking Hebrew letter, prominent in
'kosher', would have stood out (and still does) on shop windows.

I suspect that that's because the letter is, in my experience,
"shin", not "sheen" in English (and Hebrew and Yiddish). The
derivation from "shayner", especially in phrases like "shayner
yid"[1], has always seemed the most likely.

In my experience the Hebrew letters have been pronounced
'sheen'/'seen'. WNW4 confirms my experience. Thus, it is still
surprising.

I see that MWCD11 gives it both ways (though they spell it "shin").
I've only heard /SIn/ ("shin"). YIVO transliterates the name of the
Yiddish letter as "shin", but that doesn't give much help, because
that could either be /I/ ("ih") or /i/ ("ee"). The online Yiddish
dictionary at
http://www.yiddishdictionaryonline.com/
just spells it as the single letter, so there's no way to tell whether
the yud would have a dot under it (indicating a long /i/) if a Yiddish
speaker wrote it.

Post by Stuart Leichter
It's more surprising that German or Yiddish 'schoen' or 'sch[o-umlaut]n'
would become 'sheen' in English, especially since it became 'shayne(r)' in
'Yinglish'. English and American Yiddishers don't preserve the Germanic
vowel pronunciation,

Neither did Europeans. The word is spelled "shin tzvey yudn nun", and
the official YIVO transliteration is "sheyn", pronounced /SeIn/
("shane"). (Their gloss on the vowel at
http://www.yivo.org/yiddish/alefbeys.htm
is "a as in date".)
But in any case, it seems much more likely that people would hear
thick accent and turn that into /Sini/ as a description than that they
would take their slur from the middle letter of a word they can't read
written in an alphabet whose letters they almost certainly don't know
the names of.

In my experience, those who slur haven't the foggiest notion about where
their slurs originated.

It was hasty for me to employ 'KOSHER' (with the shin in the middle) when I
could have employed 'SHALOM' or its simplified 'SH', which is common on
doorposts. I'm above sophistry, but not hondling.

Hypotheticals make it too easy.

Whaddaya call 'at?
Vhat? Dat?
Yeah.
Shin.
Sheen?
Ja.
--

Stuart

[Evan Kirshenbaum]

Post by Stuart Leichter

Post by Evan Kirshenbaum
But in any case, it seems much more likely that people would hear
a thick accent and turn that into /Sini/ as a description than that
they would take their slur from the middle letter of a word they
can't read written in an alphabet whose letters they almost
certainly don't know the names of.

In my experience, those who slur haven't the foggiest notion about
where their slurs originated.

Those who create slurs do, though.

Post by Stuart Leichter
It was hasty for me to employ 'KOSHER' (with the shin in the middle)
when I could have employed 'SHALOM' or its simplified 'SH', which is
common on doorposts.

The shin on the mezuzah stands for "shaddai", not "shalom", not that
it affects your argument one way or another.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |Specifically, I'd like to debate
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |whether cannibalism ought to be
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |grounds for leniency in murder,
|since it's less wasteful.
***@hpl.hp.com | Calvin
[phone]

http://www.kirshenbaum.net/

[Dennis M. Hammes]

...

Post by Evan Kirshenbaum

Post by Stuart Leichter
In my experience, those who slur haven't the foggiest notion about
where their slurs originated.

Those who create slurs do, though.

Yabut are they gonna tell /you/?

[Evan Kirshenbaum]

Post by Dennis M. Hammes

Post by Evan Kirshenbaum

Post by Stuart Leichter
In my experience, those who slur haven't the foggiest notion about
where their slurs originated.

Those who create slurs do, though.

Yabut are they gonna tell /you/?

Nah, but if you've got two theories, one of which postulates that they
based it on something that they're likely to have heard and the other
of which postulates that they based it on something they're highly
unlikely to have heard, I'm going to vote with Sir William.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |If a bus station is where a bus
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |stops, and a train station is where
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |a train stops, what does that say
|about a workstation?
***@hpl.hp.com
[phone]

http://www.kirshenbaum.net/

[Dennis M. Hammes]

Post by Evan Kirshenbaum

Post by Dennis M. Hammes

Post by Evan Kirshenbaum

Post by Stuart Leichter
In my experience, those who slur haven't the foggiest notion about
where their slurs originated.

Those who create slurs do, though.

Yabut are they gonna tell /you/?

Nah, but if you've got two theories, one of which postulates that they
based it on something that they're likely to have heard and the other
of which postulates that they based it on something they're highly
unlikely to have heard, I'm going to vote with Sir William.

Heh. Then you're likely to be right in all but those 5% of the
sample that were caused by visitations from crop circles.

[Mike Lyle]

Evan Kirshenbaum wrote:
[...]

Post by Evan Kirshenbaum
The shin on the mezuzah stands for "shaddai", not "shalom", not that
it affects your argument one way or another.

Do some people informally pronounce that "meduzah", with a d? Or have
I simply mis-heard? Among British Jews I keep meeting mismatches
between pronunciation and what I'd have expected from the Romanized
or Yiddish spelling, and, because of British concerns with accents as
status-markers, have always felt it might be impertinent to ask.

[Evan Kirshenbaum]

Post by Mike Lyle
[...]

Post by Evan Kirshenbaum
The shin on the mezuzah stands for "shaddai", not "shalom", not
that it affects your argument one way or another.

Do some people informally pronounce that "meduzah", with a d? Or
have I simply mis-heard?

I don't think I've ever heard that other than from a young child who
simply misheard.

Post by Mike Lyle
Among British Jews I keep meeting mismatches between pronunciation
and what I'd have expected from the Romanized or Yiddish spelling,
and, because of British concerns with accents as status-markers,
have always felt it might be impertinent to ask.

There *are* a lot of differences in pronunciation, especially of the
vowels. There are (or, more, "were") several distinct Yiddish
dialects across Europe.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |A little government and a little luck
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |are necessary in life, but only a
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |fool trusts either of them.
| P.J. O'Rourke
***@hpl.hp.com
[phone]

http://www.kirshenbaum.net/

[Roland Hutchinson]

Post by Stuart Leichter

Post by Evan Kirshenbaum

Post by Stuart Leichter
It's surprising that the Hebrew letter (called 'sheen' in English,
pronounced as 'sh-' or 's-') has no place in the etymological
considerations. That 'W'-looking Hebrew letter, prominent in
'kosher', would have stood out (and still does) on shop windows.

I suspect that that's because the letter is, in my experience, "shin",
not "sheen" in English (and Hebrew and Yiddish). The derivation from
"shayner", especially in phrases like "shayner yid"[1], has always
seemed the most likely.

In my experience the Hebrew letters have been pronounced 'sheen'/'seen'.
WNW4 confirms my experience. Thus, it is still surprising.
It's more surprising that German or Yiddish 'schoen' or 'sch[o-umlaut]n'
would become 'sheen' in English, especially since it became 'shayne(r)' in
'Yinglish'. English and American Yiddishers don't preserve the Germanic
vowel pronunciation, and ModE 'sheen' derives from ME and OE, not G.

Don't forget that the American Jewish "establishment" (as it then was) was
established before the Yiddish-speaking masses started to arrive _en
masse_. That establishment was German-speaking in origin, not
Yiddish-speaking (or, at least, not Yiddish-speaking within living memory,
or, at the VERY least, not admitting to it if they had been!).

[Areff]

["Followup-To:" header set to alt.usage.english.]

Post by Roland Hutchinson
Don't forget that the American Jewish "establishment" (as it then was) was
established before the Yiddish-speaking masses started to arrive _en
masse_. That establishment was German-speaking in origin, not
Yiddish-speaking (or, at least, not Yiddish-speaking within living memory,
or, at the VERY least, not admitting to it if they had been!).

Yup. They established Mount Sinai Hospital in Manhattan's East Harlem.
Yiddish-speaking Jews from further east had to set up their own hospital
downtown, Beth Israel.

[Evan Kirshenbaum]

Post by Roland Hutchinson
Don't forget that the American Jewish "establishment" (as it then
was) was established before the Yiddish-speaking masses started to
arrive _en masse_. That establishment was German-speaking in
origin, not Yiddish-speaking

That's a good point. Chicago had two main waves of Jewish immigrants
in the nineteenth century. The first, from the 1830s, were German
speakers, mostly Reform. The second, from the 1880s, were Yiddish
speakers, mostly Orthodox.

I had thought that the term was late nineteenth-century, but the OED
cites it to 1816. On the other hand, the early quotes all appear to
be English, not American, so it looks as though the term may have
originated there.

Post by Roland Hutchinson
(or, at least, not Yiddish-speaking within living memory, or, at the
VERY least, not admitting to it if they had been!).

True. Probably more the first option. Yiddish was largely what
happened when German-speaking Jews moved away from a German-speaking
main population. Those who stayed in Germany and Austria continued to
speak German, albeit with a fair bit of Hebrew vocabulary thrown in.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |If only some crazy scientist
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |somewhere would develop a device
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |that would allow us to change the
|channel on our televisions......
***@hpl.hp.com | --"lazarus"
[phone]

http://www.kirshenbaum.net/

[Roland Hutchinson]

Post by Evan Kirshenbaum

Post by Roland Hutchinson
Don't forget that the American Jewish "establishment" (as it then
was) was established before the Yiddish-speaking masses started to
arrive _en masse_. That establishment was German-speaking in
origin, not Yiddish-speaking

That's a good point. Chicago had two main waves of Jewish immigrants
in the nineteenth century. The first, from the 1830s, were German
speakers, mostly Reform. The second, from the 1880s, were Yiddish
speakers, mostly Orthodox.
I had thought that the term was late nineteenth-century, but the OED
cites it to 1816. On the other hand, the early quotes all appear to
be English, not American, so it looks as though the term may have
originated there.

Post by Roland Hutchinson
(or, at least, not Yiddish-speaking within living memory, or, at the
VERY least, not admitting to it if they had been!).

True. Probably more the first option. Yiddish was largely what
happened when German-speaking Jews moved away from a German-speaking
main population. Those who stayed in Germany and Austria continued to
speak German, albeit with a fair bit of Hebrew vocabulary thrown in.

That's about right, but Western Yiddish was not generally displaced by
"proper" German until the 18th century, as I understand it. Small
communities of speakers remained in the 20th century, and a miniscule and
diminishing number of speakers may still walk the earth for aught I know.

[the messenjah]

Post by Xah Lee
In David Bowie's Young Americans lyrics, what does Afro-Sheilas mean?
...
Have you been an un-American?
Just you and your idol singing falsetto 'bout
Leather, leather everywhere, and
Not a myth left from the ghetto
Well, well, well, would you carry a razor
In case, just in case of depression
Sit on your hands on a bus of survivors
Blushing at all the Afro-Sheilas
Ain't that close to love?
Well, ain't that poster love?
Well, it ain't that Barbie doll
Her heart's been broken just like you have

Probably Black Aussie women...

Post by Xah Lee
...
http://www.xahlee.org/Periodic_dosage_dir/sanga_pemci/young_americans.html
Xah
∑ http://xahlee.org/