How to Write Good (Poetry)

[George J. Dance]

How to Write Good
(Poetry)

Do you want to learn
to write good
poetry?

Great: you know what
You want to learn.

But why?
For the money?
Most poets don't make much.
For the fame?
Most poets don't get much.
Or maybe you're like me:
I used to write
a lot of poems
but I wasn't happy
with them;
I didn't think they were good;
I was never satisfied.
That's why I learn:
for my own
satisfaction.

If that's why you want
to learn,
we've covered
the what and the why --
But that still leaves
the how:

How do you learn
to write good
poetry?

Short answer:
1. Read poetry
2. Practice writing it

That's true enough,
but it is not
a good answer:
It's like telling someone
Who wants to learn to play music,
"1. Listen to a lot of music.
"2. Practice playing it."

What music?
How do you listen to it?
And why?

What do you practice?
How do you practice it?
And why?

So ...
Long answer:

1. Read poetry. What poetry?
Start by reading what you can find.
Bookmark the poems you like
and reread them.
Use the above
to find poets you like,
and read more of their work.
Build a list
of good poems.

2. Read poetry. How do you read it?
Study it.
So, how do you study it?
Reread the poems on your list.
How many times?
Until you memorize them.
If you liked the poem,
you already know
what the poet had to say.
So, this time, pay attention
to how he said it:
Try reading them as poems.
Ask: What did you like
about the poem
/as a poem/?
The rhyme,
the cadence,
the word choices
and how they sound
when you read them aloud?
(What you liked
does not have to be
just one thing.)
Discover the skill:
how the "maker"
made this mass of words
Into a poem you liked:
how he wrote a good poem.

3. Read poetry: Why?
As you do the above,
and repeat it,
you are learning
consciously or not
what makes a poem good.

4. Practice writing it. What do you practice?
Find an old draft,
or a not-so-good
poem, of your own.
Compare it to a good poem
from your list.
Remind yourself:
(A) what did that poet do
that made his a good poem?
Then ask:
(B) Can I do what I liked
about that poem
in mine?
(C)Can I develop that skill?

5. Practice writing it. How do you practice?
Try to answer (B) and (C).
Then do it again
over and over.
Feel free to mix and match:
Compare one
of the good poems
To more than one of yours,
And one of yours
To more than one good poem.
Do it until
you've learned that skill.
Then use that skill
in your new poems.

6. Practice writing it. Why?
The only way
and all you need
to learn to write good
poetry is to learn
what makes a poem
good; and how
to do that yourself.

Reading and studying
will teach you
what makes a poem good.
Practicing will teach you
consciously or unconsciously
how to do that yourself.

- GJD, 2020

[Z***@none.i2p]

An excellent think piece....

One of the first poets I truly admired was Jim Morrison.....


http://morrison-the-lizard-king.blogspot.com/2011/05/album-american-prayer-lyrics.html

"All hail the American night!" --Jim D. Morrison

[Edward Rochester Esq.]

Post by George J. Dance
How to Write Good
(Poetry)
Do you want to learn
to write good
poetry?
Great: you know what
You want to learn.
But why?
For the money?
Most poets don't make much.
For the fame?
Most poets don't get much.
I used to write
a lot of poems
but I wasn't happy
with them;
I didn't think they were good;
I was never satisfied.
for my own
satisfaction.
If that's why you want
to learn,
we've covered
the what and the why --
But that still leaves
How do you learn
to write good
poetry?
1. Read poetry
2. Practice writing it
That's true enough,
but it is not
It's like telling someone
Who wants to learn to play music,
"1. Listen to a lot of music.
"2. Practice playing it."
What music?
How do you listen to it?
And why?
What do you practice?
How do you practice it?
And why?
So ...
1. Read poetry. What poetry?
Start by reading what you can find.
Bookmark the poems you like
and reread them.
Use the above
to find poets you like,
and read more of their work.
Build a list
of good poems.
2. Read poetry. How do you read it?
Study it.
So, how do you study it?
Reread the poems on your list.
How many times?
Until you memorize them.
If you liked the poem,
you already know
what the poet had to say.
So, this time, pay attention
Try reading them as poems.
Ask: What did you like
about the poem
/as a poem/?
The rhyme,
the cadence,
the word choices
and how they sound
when you read them aloud?
(What you liked
does not have to be
just one thing.)
how the "maker"
made this mass of words
how he wrote a good poem.
3. Read poetry: Why?
As you do the above,
and repeat it,
you are learning
consciously or not
what makes a poem good.
4. Practice writing it. What do you practice?
Find an old draft,
or a not-so-good
poem, of your own.
Compare it to a good poem
from your list.
(A) what did that poet do
that made his a good poem?
(B) Can I do what I liked
about that poem
in mine?
(C)Can I develop that skill?
5. Practice writing it. How do you practice?
Try to answer (B) and (C).
Then do it again
over and over.
Compare one
of the good poems
To more than one of yours,
And one of yours
To more than one good poem.
Do it until
you've learned that skill.
Then use that skill
in your new poems.
6. Practice writing it. Why?
The only way
and all you need
to learn to write good
poetry is to learn
what makes a poem
good; and how
to do that yourself.
Reading and studying
will teach you
what makes a poem good.
Practicing will teach you
consciously or unconsciously
how to do that yourself.
- GJD, 2020

So, as we can see, you've learned next to nothing.

[Hieronymous Corey]

Post by Edward Rochester Esq.

Post by George J. Dance
How to Write Good
(Poetry)
Do you want to learn
to write good
poetry?
Great: you know what
You want to learn.
But why?
For the money?
Most poets don't make much.
For the fame?
Most poets don't get much.
I used to write
a lot of poems
but I wasn't happy
with them;
I didn't think they were good;
I was never satisfied.
for my own
satisfaction.
If that's why you want
to learn,
we've covered
the what and the why --
But that still leaves
How do you learn
to write good
poetry?
1. Read poetry
2. Practice writing it
That's true enough,
but it is not
It's like telling someone
Who wants to learn to play music,
"1. Listen to a lot of music.
"2. Practice playing it."
What music?
How do you listen to it?
And why?
What do you practice?
How do you practice it?
And why?
So ...
1. Read poetry. What poetry?
Start by reading what you can find.
Bookmark the poems you like
and reread them.
Use the above
to find poets you like,
and read more of their work.
Build a list
of good poems.
2. Read poetry. How do you read it?
Study it.
So, how do you study it?
Reread the poems on your list.
How many times?
Until you memorize them.
If you liked the poem,
you already know
what the poet had to say.
So, this time, pay attention
Try reading them as poems.
Ask: What did you like
about the poem
/as a poem/?
The rhyme,
the cadence,
the word choices
and how they sound
when you read them aloud?
(What you liked
does not have to be
just one thing.)
how the "maker"
made this mass of words
how he wrote a good poem.
3. Read poetry: Why?
As you do the above,
and repeat it,
you are learning
consciously or not
what makes a poem good.
4. Practice writing it. What do you practice?
Find an old draft,
or a not-so-good
poem, of your own.
Compare it to a good poem
from your list.
(A) what did that poet do
that made his a good poem?
(B) Can I do what I liked
about that poem
in mine?
(C)Can I develop that skill?
5. Practice writing it. How do you practice?
Try to answer (B) and (C).
Then do it again
over and over.
Compare one
of the good poems
To more than one of yours,
And one of yours
To more than one good poem.
Do it until
you've learned that skill.
Then use that skill
in your new poems.
6. Practice writing it. Why?
The only way
and all you need
to learn to write good
poetry is to learn
what makes a poem
good; and how
to do that yourself.
Reading and studying
will teach you
what makes a poem good.
Practicing will teach you
consciously or unconsciously
how to do that yourself.
- GJD, 2020

So, as we can see, you've learned next to nothing.

People who think good write good,
and people who think well write well.
Personally, I’d much rather think well
and write well than think like George,
and write what he thinks is good poetry.

[Edward Rochester Esq.]

Post by Hieronymous Corey

Post by Edward Rochester Esq.

Post by George J. Dance
How to Write Good
(Poetry)
Do you want to learn
to write good
poetry?
Great: you know what
You want to learn.
But why?
For the money?
Most poets don't make much.
For the fame?
Most poets don't get much.
I used to write
a lot of poems
but I wasn't happy
with them;
I didn't think they were good;
I was never satisfied.
for my own
satisfaction.
If that's why you want
to learn,
we've covered
the what and the why --
But that still leaves
How do you learn
to write good
poetry?
1. Read poetry
2. Practice writing it
That's true enough,
but it is not
It's like telling someone
Who wants to learn to play music,
"1. Listen to a lot of music.
"2. Practice playing it."
What music?
How do you listen to it?
And why?
What do you practice?
How do you practice it?
And why?
So ...
1. Read poetry. What poetry?
Start by reading what you can find.
Bookmark the poems you like
and reread them.
Use the above
to find poets you like,
and read more of their work.
Build a list
of good poems.
2. Read poetry. How do you read it?
Study it.
So, how do you study it?
Reread the poems on your list.
How many times?
Until you memorize them.
If you liked the poem,
you already know
what the poet had to say.
So, this time, pay attention
Try reading them as poems.
Ask: What did you like
about the poem
/as a poem/?
The rhyme,
the cadence,
the word choices
and how they sound
when you read them aloud?
(What you liked
does not have to be
just one thing.)
how the "maker"
made this mass of words
how he wrote a good poem.
3. Read poetry: Why?
As you do the above,
and repeat it,
you are learning
consciously or not
what makes a poem good.
4. Practice writing it. What do you practice?
Find an old draft,
or a not-so-good
poem, of your own.
Compare it to a good poem
from your list.
(A) what did that poet do
that made his a good poem?
(B) Can I do what I liked
about that poem
in mine?
(C)Can I develop that skill?
5. Practice writing it. How do you practice?
Try to answer (B) and (C).
Then do it again
over and over.
Compare one
of the good poems
To more than one of yours,
And one of yours
To more than one good poem.
Do it until
you've learned that skill.
Then use that skill
in your new poems.
6. Practice writing it. Why?
The only way
and all you need
to learn to write good
poetry is to learn
what makes a poem
good; and how
to do that yourself.
Reading and studying
will teach you
what makes a poem good.
Practicing will teach you
consciously or unconsciously
how to do that yourself.
- GJD, 2020

So, as we can see, you've learned next to nothing.

People who think good write good,
and people who think well write well.
Personally, I’d much rather think well
and write well than think like George,
and write what he thinks is good poetry.

second

[Z***@none.i2p]

Edward Rochester Esq. wrote on Fri, 03 January 2020 13:16

Post by Edward Rochester Esq.

Post by George J. Dance
How to Write Good
(Poetry)
Do you want to learn
to write good
poetry?
Great: you know what
You want to learn.
But why?
For the money?
Most poets don't make much.
For the fame?
Most poets don't get much.
I used to write
a lot of poems
but I wasn't happy
with them;
I didn't think they were good;
I was never satisfied.
for my own
satisfaction.
If that's why you want
to learn,
we've covered
the what and the why --
But that still leaves
How do you learn
to write good
poetry?
1. Read poetry
2. Practice writing it
That's true enough,
but it is not
It's like telling someone
Who wants to learn to play music,
"1. Listen to a lot of music.
"2. Practice playing it."
What music?
How do you listen to it?
And why?
What do you practice?
How do you practice it?
And why?
So ...
1. Read poetry. What poetry?
Start by reading what you can find.
Bookmark the poems you like
and reread them.
Use the above
to find poets you like,
and read more of their work.
Build a list
of good poems.
2. Read poetry. How do you read it?
Study it.
So, how do you study it?
Reread the poems on your list.
How many times?
Until you memorize them.
If you liked the poem,
you already know
what the poet had to say.
So, this time, pay attention
Try reading them as poems.
Ask: What did you like
about the poem
/as a poem/?
The rhyme,
the cadence,
the word choices
and how they sound
when you read them aloud?
(What you liked
does not have to be
just one thing.)
how the "maker"
made this mass of words
how he wrote a good poem.
3. Read poetry: Why?
As you do the above,
and repeat it,
you are learning
consciously or not
what makes a poem good.
4. Practice writing it. What do you practice?
Find an old draft,
or a not-so-good
poem, of your own.
Compare it to a good poem
from your list.
(A) what did that poet do
that made his a good poem?
(B) Can I do what I liked
about that poem
in mine?
(C)Can I develop that skill?
5. Practice writing it. How do you practice?
Try to answer (B) and (C).
Then do it again
over and over.
Compare one
of the good poems
To more than one of yours,
And one of yours
To more than one good poem.
Do it until
you've learned that skill.
Then use that skill
in your new poems.
6. Practice writing it. Why?
The only way
and all you need
to learn to write good
poetry is to learn
what makes a poem
good; and how
to do that yourself.
Reading and studying
will teach you
what makes a poem good.
Practicing will teach you
consciously or unconsciously
how to do that yourself.
- GJD, 2020

So, as we can see, you've learned next to nothing.

Buk had the method for me.... if you feel it, the poem, Do IT...... and toss those crutches into the ditch.....

[George J. Dance]

Post by Z***@none.i2p
Edward Rochester Esq. wrote on Fri, 03 January 2020 13:16

Post by Edward Rochester Esq.

Post by George J. Dance
How to Write Good
(Poetry)
Do you want to learn
to write good
poetry?
Great: you know what
You want to learn.
But why?
For the money?
Most poets don't make much.
For the fame?
Most poets don't get much.
I used to write
a lot of poems
but I wasn't happy
with them;
I didn't think they were good;
I was never satisfied.
for my own
satisfaction.
If that's why you want
to learn,
we've covered
the what and the why --
But that still leaves
How do you learn
to write good
poetry?
1. Read poetry
2. Practice writing it
That's true enough,
but it is not
It's like telling someone
Who wants to learn to play music,
"1. Listen to a lot of music.
"2. Practice playing it."
What music?
How do you listen to it?
And why?
What do you practice?
How do you practice it?
And why?
So ...
1. Read poetry. What poetry?
Start by reading what you can find.
Bookmark the poems you like
and reread them.
Use the above
to find poets you like,
and read more of their work.
Build a list
of good poems.
2. Read poetry. How do you read it?
Study it.
So, how do you study it?
Reread the poems on your list.
How many times?
Until you memorize them.
If you liked the poem,
you already know
what the poet had to say.
So, this time, pay attention
Try reading them as poems.
Ask: What did you like
about the poem
/as a poem/?
The rhyme,
the cadence,
the word choices
and how they sound
when you read them aloud?
(What you liked
does not have to be
just one thing.)
how the "maker"
made this mass of words
how he wrote a good poem.
3. Read poetry: Why?
As you do the above,
and repeat it,
you are learning
consciously or not
what makes a poem good.
4. Practice writing it. What do you practice?
Find an old draft,
or a not-so-good
poem, of your own.
Compare it to a good poem
from your list.
(A) what did that poet do
that made his a good poem?
(B) Can I do what I liked
about that poem
in mine?
(C)Can I develop that skill?
5. Practice writing it. How do you practice?
Try to answer (B) and (C).
Then do it again
over and over.
Compare one
of the good poems
To more than one of yours,
And one of yours
To more than one good poem.
Do it until
you've learned that skill.
Then use that skill
in your new poems.
6. Practice writing it. Why?
The only way
and all you need
to learn to write good
poetry is to learn
what makes a poem
good; and how
to do that yourself.
Reading and studying
will teach you
what makes a poem good.
Practicing will teach you
consciously or unconsciously
how to do that yourself.
- GJD, 2020

So, as we can see, you've learned next to nothing.

Buk had the method for me.... if you feel it, the poem, Do IT...... and toss those crutches into the ditch.....

Of course; when you feel the poem "bursting forth," write it. That's how you get your drafts. (The OP is a draft, BTW.)

[Z***@none.i2p]

George J. Dance wrote on Fri, 03 January 2020 14:14

Post by George J. Dance

Post by Z***@none.i2p
Edward Rochester Esq. wrote on Fri, 03 January 2020 13:16

Post by Edward Rochester Esq.

Post by George J. Dance
How to Write Good
(Poetry)
Do you want to learn
to write good
poetry?
Great: you know what
You want to learn.
But why?
For the money?
Most poets don't make much.
For the fame?
Most poets don't get much.
I used to write
a lot of poems
but I wasn't happy
with them;
I didn't think they were good;
I was never satisfied.
for my own
satisfaction.
If that's why you want
to learn,
we've covered
the what and the why --
But that still leaves
How do you learn
to write good
poetry?
1. Read poetry
2. Practice writing it
That's true enough,
but it is not
It's like telling someone
Who wants to learn to play music,
"1. Listen to a lot of music.
"2. Practice playing it."
What music?
How do you listen to it?
And why?
What do you practice?
How do you practice it?
And why?
So ...
1. Read poetry. What poetry?
Start by reading what you can find.
Bookmark the poems you like
and reread them.
Use the above
to find poets you like,
and read more of their work.
Build a list
of good poems.
2. Read poetry. How do you read it?
Study it.
So, how do you study it?
Reread the poems on your list.
How many times?
Until you memorize them.
If you liked the poem,
you already know
what the poet had to say.
So, this time, pay attention
Try reading them as poems.
Ask: What did you like
about the poem
/as a poem/?
The rhyme,
the cadence,
the word choices
and how they sound
when you read them aloud?
(What you liked
does not have to be
just one thing.)
how the "maker"
made this mass of words
how he wrote a good poem.
3. Read poetry: Why?
As you do the above,
and repeat it,
you are learning
consciously or not
what makes a poem good.
4. Practice writing it. What do you practice?
Find an old draft,
or a not-so-good
poem, of your own.
Compare it to a good poem
from your list.
(A) what did that poet do
that made his a good poem?
(B) Can I do what I liked
about that poem
in mine?
(C)Can I develop that skill?
5. Practice writing it. How do you practice?
Try to answer (B) and (C).
Then do it again
over and over.
Compare one
of the good poems
To more than one of yours,
And one of yours
To more than one good poem.
Do it until
you've learned that skill.
Then use that skill
in your new poems.
6. Practice writing it. Why?
The only way
and all you need
to learn to write good
poetry is to learn
what makes a poem
good; and how
to do that yourself.
Reading and studying
will teach you
what makes a poem good.
Practicing will teach you
consciously or unconsciously
how to do that yourself.
- GJD, 2020

So, as we can see, you've learned next to nothing.

Buk had the method for me.... if you feel it, the poem, Do IT...... and toss those crutches into the ditch.....

Of course; when you feel the poem "bursting forth," write it. That's how you get your drafts. (The OP is a draft, BTW.)

Indeed..... indeed......

[Michael Pendragon]

Bukowski vs Dance:

Buk isn't simply determining who should, and who shouldn't, be a writer; he's attempting to describe the creative process as well. According to Buk, the urge to write, and yes, the *words* that one writes, well up spontaneously (even numinously) within one's innermost being. When this phenomenon occurs, one has no choice but to set the words to paper.

George, otoh, is describing the process by which one acquires the skills that are necessary to write poetry well. This consists of familiarizing oneself with, and actively seeking to understand the compositional elements of, what one considers to be "good poetry." Through practice, one can hone one's skills to such a degree that one would be able to compose well-written verses.

These approaches are different sides of the same coin, and both are equally limited.

Buk's method is analogous to the Divine Inspiration associated with the Hebrew prophets or the Delphic oracle. It is a state of mind that one experiences when the "censoring agents" of the preconscious have been impeded, allowing the archetypal content from the sub- & unconscious to slip through into consciousness. Since the unconscious can only communicate through symbols, poetry drawn from its sources will often include many layers of symbolism. I shall refer to this form of writing as "inspired," and consider one's *natural* ability to partake in this creative process to be be "talent."

The flaw in Buk's argument is... his own poetry. He simply lacks the knowledge and skills to turn his inspirations (such as they are) into viable examples of verse. In short, he sucks eggs.

Conversely, the flaw in George's poetry is exemplified by his statement that "my poems come from my mind and hands; I never could figure out how to get that 'soul' to do any work." Without the participation of the "soul" (or "psyche"), the resultant poem is going to remain anchored in the mundanity of everyday observation and experience.

Consider, instead, the words of William Blake:

Bring me my Bow of burning gold:
Bring me my arrows of desire:
Bring me my Spear: O clouds unfold!
Bring me my Chariot of fire!

Blake is calling on his Muse to inspire him to create poetry commensurate with the prophecies of Ancient days. And, unlike Buk, he also possesses the poetic skills to set down his inspirations in an equally powerful poetic form.

The greatest poets have always possessed more or less equal portions of inspiration/talent, and skill.

[George J. Dance]

Post by Michael Pendragon
Buk isn't simply determining who should, and who shouldn't, be a writer; he's attempting to describe the creative process as well. According to Buk, the urge to write, and yes, the *words* that one writes, well up spontaneously (even numinously) within one's innermost being. When this phenomenon occurs, one has no choice but to set the words to paper.
George, otoh, is describing the process by which one acquires the skills that are necessary to write poetry well. This consists of familiarizing oneself with, and actively seeking to understand the compositional elements of, what one considers to be "good poetry." Through practice, one can hone one's skills to such a degree that one would be able to compose well-written verses.
These approaches are different sides of the same coin, and both are equally limited.
Buk's method is analogous to the Divine Inspiration associated with the Hebrew prophets or the Delphic oracle. It is a state of mind that one experiences when the "censoring agents" of the preconscious have been impeded, allowing the archetypal content from the sub- & unconscious to slip through into consciousness. Since the unconscious can only communicate through symbols, poetry drawn from its sources will often include many layers of symbolism. I shall refer to this form of writing as "inspired," and consider one's *natural* ability to partake in this creative process to be be "talent."
The flaw in Buk's argument is... his own poetry. He simply lacks the knowledge and skills to turn his inspirations (such as they are) into viable examples of verse. In short, he sucks eggs.
Conversely, the flaw in George's poetry is exemplified by his statement that "my poems come from my mind and hands; I never could figure out how to get that 'soul' to do any work." Without the participation of the "soul" (or "psyche"), the resultant poem is going to remain anchored in the mundanity of everyday observation and experience.
Bring me my Spear: O clouds unfold!
Bring me my Chariot of fire!
Blake is calling on his Muse to inspire him to create poetry commensurate with the prophecies of Ancient days. And, unlike Buk, he also possesses the poetic skills to set down his inspirations in an equally powerful poetic form.
The greatest poets have always possessed more or less equal portions of inspiration/talent, and skill.

Well put. I'll read your post again, to look for things that might need a reply, but I wanted to acknowledge reading it right away.

[Will Dockery]

Post by George J. Dance

Post by Michael Pendragon
Buk isn't simply determining who should, and who shouldn't, be a writer; he's attempting to describe the creative process as well. According to Buk, the urge to write, and yes, the *words* that one writes, well up spontaneously (even numinously) within one's innermost being. When this phenomenon occurs, one has no choice but to set the words to paper.
George, otoh, is describing the process by which one acquires the skills that are necessary to write poetry well. This consists of familiarizing oneself with, and actively seeking to understand the compositional elements of, what one considers to be "good poetry." Through practice, one can hone one's skills to such a degree that one would be able to compose well-written verses.
These approaches are different sides of the same coin, and both are equally limited.
Buk's method is analogous to the Divine Inspiration associated with the Hebrew prophets or the Delphic oracle. It is a state of mind that one experiences when the "censoring agents" of the preconscious have been impeded, allowing the archetypal content from the sub- & unconscious to slip through into consciousness. Since the unconscious can only communicate through symbols, poetry drawn from its sources will often include many layers of symbolism. I shall refer to this form of writing as "inspired," and consider one's *natural* ability to partake in this creative process to be be "talent."
The flaw in Buk's argument is... his own poetry. He simply lacks the knowledge and skills to turn his inspirations (such as they are) into viable examples of verse. In short, he sucks eggs.
Conversely, the flaw in George's poetry is exemplified by his statement that "my poems come from my mind and hands; I never could figure out how to get that 'soul' to do any work." Without the participation of the "soul" (or "psyche"), the resultant poem is going to remain anchored in the mundanity of everyday observation and experience.
Bring me my Spear: O clouds unfold!
Bring me my Chariot of fire!
Blake is calling on his Muse to inspire him to create poetry commensurate with the prophecies of Ancient days. And, unlike Buk, he also possesses the poetic skills to set down his inspirations in an equally powerful poetic form.
The greatest poets have always possessed more or less equal portions of inspiration/talent, and skill.

Well put. I'll read your post again, to look for things that might need a reply, but I wanted to acknowledge reading it right away.

Interesting discussion, agreed... just now getting this far into the page for today.

[Edward Rochester Esq.]

Post by Michael Pendragon
Buk isn't simply determining who should, and who shouldn't, be a writer; he's attempting to describe the creative process as well. According to Buk, the urge to write, and yes, the *words* that one writes, well up spontaneously (even numinously) within one's innermost being. When this phenomenon occurs, one has no choice but to set the words to paper.
George, otoh, is describing the process by which one acquires the skills that are necessary to write poetry well. This consists of familiarizing oneself with, and actively seeking to understand the compositional elements of, what one considers to be "good poetry." Through practice, one can hone one's skills to such a degree that one would be able to compose well-written verses.
These approaches are different sides of the same coin, and both are equally limited.
Buk's method is analogous to the Divine Inspiration associated with the Hebrew prophets or the Delphic oracle. It is a state of mind that one experiences when the "censoring agents" of the preconscious have been impeded, allowing the archetypal content from the sub- & unconscious to slip through into consciousness. Since the unconscious can only communicate through symbols, poetry drawn from its sources will often include many layers of symbolism. I shall refer to this form of writing as "inspired," and consider one's *natural* ability to partake in this creative process to be be "talent."
The flaw in Buk's argument is... his own poetry. He simply lacks the knowledge and skills to turn his inspirations (such as they are) into viable examples of verse. In short, he sucks eggs.
Conversely, the flaw in George's poetry is exemplified by his statement that "my poems come from my mind and hands; I never could figure out how to get that 'soul' to do any work." Without the participation of the "soul" (or "psyche"), the resultant poem is going to remain anchored in the mundanity of everyday observation and experience.
Bring me my Spear: O clouds unfold!
Bring me my Chariot of fire!
Blake is calling on his Muse to inspire him to create poetry commensurate with the prophecies of Ancient days. And, unlike Buk, he also possesses the poetic skills to set down his inspirations in an equally powerful poetic form.
The greatest poets have always possessed more or less equal portions of inspiration/talent, and skill.

You are getting well, welcome back :-)

[Victor H]

Post by George J. Dance

Post by Z***@none.i2p
Edward Rochester Esq. wrote on Fri, 03 January 2020 13:16

Post by Edward Rochester Esq.

Post by George J. Dance
How to Write Good
(Poetry)
Do you want to learn
to write good
poetry?
Great: you know what
You want to learn.
But why?
For the money?
Most poets don't make much.
For the fame?
Most poets don't get much.
I used to write
a lot of poems
but I wasn't happy
with them;
I didn't think they were good;
I was never satisfied.
for my own
satisfaction.
If that's why you want
to learn,
we've covered
the what and the why --
But that still leaves
How do you learn
to write good
poetry?
1. Read poetry
2. Practice writing it
That's true enough,
but it is not
It's like telling someone
Who wants to learn to play music,
"1. Listen to a lot of music.
"2. Practice playing it."
What music?
How do you listen to it?
And why?
What do you practice?
How do you practice it?
And why?
So ...
1. Read poetry. What poetry?
Start by reading what you can find.
Bookmark the poems you like
and reread them.
Use the above
to find poets you like,
and read more of their work.
Build a list
of good poems.
2. Read poetry. How do you read it?
Study it.
So, how do you study it?
Reread the poems on your list.
How many times?
Until you memorize them.
If you liked the poem,
you already know
what the poet had to say.
So, this time, pay attention
Try reading them as poems.
Ask: What did you like
about the poem
/as a poem/?
The rhyme,
the cadence,
the word choices
and how they sound
when you read them aloud?
(What you liked
does not have to be
just one thing.)
how the "maker"
made this mass of words
how he wrote a good poem.
3. Read poetry: Why?
As you do the above,
and repeat it,
you are learning
consciously or not
what makes a poem good.
4. Practice writing it. What do you practice?
Find an old draft,
or a not-so-good
poem, of your own.
Compare it to a good poem
from your list.
(A) what did that poet do
that made his a good poem?
(B) Can I do what I liked
about that poem
in mine?
(C)Can I develop that skill?
5. Practice writing it. How do you practice?
Try to answer (B) and (C).
Then do it again
over and over.
Compare one
of the good poems
To more than one of yours,
And one of yours
To more than one good poem.
Do it until
you've learned that skill.
Then use that skill
in your new poems.
6. Practice writing it. Why?
The only way
and all you need
to learn to write good
poetry is to learn
what makes a poem
good; and how
to do that yourself.
Reading and studying
will teach you
what makes a poem good.
Practicing will teach you
consciously or unconsciously
how to do that yourself.
- GJD, 2020

So, as we can see, you've learned next to nothing.

Buk had the method for me.... if you feel it, the poem, Do IT...... and toss those crutches into the ditch.....

Of course; when you feel the poem "bursting forth," write it. That's how you get your drafts. (The OP is a draft, BTW.)

Jack Kerouac was famous for his spontaneous writings, little known that he also revised quite often…..

[Z***@none.i2p]

Edward Rochester Esq. wrote on Fri, 03 January 2020 13:16

Post by Edward Rochester Esq.

Post by George J. Dance
How to Write Good
(Poetry)
Do you want to learn
to write good
poetry?
Great: you know what
You want to learn.
But why?
For the money?
Most poets don't make much.
For the fame?
Most poets don't get much.
I used to write
a lot of poems
but I wasn't happy
with them;
I didn't think they were good;
I was never satisfied.
for my own
satisfaction.
If that's why you want
to learn,
we've covered
the what and the why --
But that still leaves
How do you learn
to write good
poetry?
1. Read poetry
2. Practice writing it
That's true enough,
but it is not
It's like telling someone
Who wants to learn to play music,
"1. Listen to a lot of music.
"2. Practice playing it."
What music?
How do you listen to it?
And why?
What do you practice?
How do you practice it?
And why?
So ...
1. Read poetry. What poetry?
Start by reading what you can find.
Bookmark the poems you like
and reread them.
Use the above
to find poets you like,
and read more of their work.
Build a list
of good poems.
2. Read poetry. How do you read it?
Study it.
So, how do you study it?
Reread the poems on your list.
How many times?
Until you memorize them.
If you liked the poem,
you already know
what the poet had to say.
So, this time, pay attention
Try reading them as poems.
Ask: What did you like
about the poem
/as a poem/?
The rhyme,
the cadence,
the word choices
and how they sound
when you read them aloud?
(What you liked
does not have to be
just one thing.)
how the "maker"
made this mass of words
how he wrote a good poem.
3. Read poetry: Why?
As you do the above,
and repeat it,
you are learning
consciously or not
what makes a poem good.
4. Practice writing it. What do you practice?
Find an old draft,
or a not-so-good
poem, of your own.
Compare it to a good poem
from your list.
(A) what did that poet do
that made his a good poem?
(B) Can I do what I liked
about that poem
in mine?
(C)Can I develop that skill?
5. Practice writing it. How do you practice?
Try to answer (B) and (C).
Then do it again
over and over.
Compare one
of the good poems
To more than one of yours,
And one of yours
To more than one good poem.
Do it until
you've learned that skill.
Then use that skill
in your new poems.
6. Practice writing it. Why?
The only way
and all you need
to learn to write good
poetry is to learn
what makes a poem
good; and how
to do that yourself.
Reading and studying
will teach you
what makes a poem good.
Practicing will teach you
consciously or unconsciously
how to do that yourself.
- GJD, 2020

So, as we can see, you've learned next to nothing.

"There are many paths and most lead to poetry...." -Ancient Wise Man

[Edward Rochester Esq.]

Post by Z***@none.i2p
Edward Rochester Esq. wrote on Fri, 03 January 2020 13:16

Post by Edward Rochester Esq.

Post by George J. Dance
How to Write Good
(Poetry)
Do you want to learn
to write good
poetry?
Great: you know what
You want to learn.
But why?
For the money?
Most poets don't make much.
For the fame?
Most poets don't get much.
I used to write
a lot of poems
but I wasn't happy
with them;
I didn't think they were good;
I was never satisfied.
for my own
satisfaction.
If that's why you want
to learn,
we've covered
the what and the why --
But that still leaves
How do you learn
to write good
poetry?
1. Read poetry
2. Practice writing it
That's true enough,
but it is not
It's like telling someone
Who wants to learn to play music,
"1. Listen to a lot of music.
"2. Practice playing it."
What music?
How do you listen to it?
And why?
What do you practice?
How do you practice it?
And why?
So ...
1. Read poetry. What poetry?
Start by reading what you can find.
Bookmark the poems you like
and reread them.
Use the above
to find poets you like,
and read more of their work.
Build a list
of good poems.
2. Read poetry. How do you read it?
Study it.
So, how do you study it?
Reread the poems on your list.
How many times?
Until you memorize them.
If you liked the poem,
you already know
what the poet had to say.
So, this time, pay attention
Try reading them as poems.
Ask: What did you like
about the poem
/as a poem/?
The rhyme,
the cadence,
the word choices
and how they sound
when you read them aloud?
(What you liked
does not have to be
just one thing.)
how the "maker"
made this mass of words
how he wrote a good poem.
3. Read poetry: Why?
As you do the above,
and repeat it,
you are learning
consciously or not
what makes a poem good.
4. Practice writing it. What do you practice?
Find an old draft,
or a not-so-good
poem, of your own.
Compare it to a good poem
from your list.
(A) what did that poet do
that made his a good poem?
(B) Can I do what I liked
about that poem
in mine?
(C)Can I develop that skill?
5. Practice writing it. How do you practice?
Try to answer (B) and (C).
Then do it again
over and over.
Compare one
of the good poems
To more than one of yours,
And one of yours
To more than one good poem.
Do it until
you've learned that skill.
Then use that skill
in your new poems.
6. Practice writing it. Why?
The only way
and all you need
to learn to write good
poetry is to learn
what makes a poem
good; and how
to do that yourself.
Reading and studying
will teach you
what makes a poem good.
Practicing will teach you
consciously or unconsciously
how to do that yourself.
- GJD, 2020

So, as we can see, you've learned next to nothing.

"There are many paths and most lead to poetry...." -Ancient Wise Man

Mr.Dance and his above 'lesson' goes no where, #6, in particular is laugh out loud.

His reason for this 'lesson' is to counter the Bukowski post.

Mr. Dance deals in poetry most days, posting thousands over the years. I assume he has read most if not all before posting and to believe his above 'lesson' he should be quite the poet himself. He isn't. His doesn't come from the soul, the passion is lukewarm at best.

[George J. Dance]

Post by Edward Rochester Esq.

Post by George J. Dance
How to Write Good
(Poetry)

snip

Post by Edward Rochester Esq.

Post by George J. Dance
6. Practice writing it. Why?
The only way
and all you need
to learn to write good
poetry is to learn
what makes a poem
good; and how
to do that yourself.
Reading and studying
will teach you
what makes a poem good.
Practicing will teach you
consciously or unconsciously
how to do that yourself.

Mr.Dance and his above 'lesson' goes no where, #6, in particular is laugh out loud.

Sorry, troll, I missed the joke. Mind sharing it?

Post by Edward Rochester Esq.
His reason for this 'lesson' is to counter the Bukowski post.

Don't be silly. The Bukowski poem was about who should "be a writer" - he said nothing about writing good poems, or good anything FTM.

Post by Edward Rochester Esq.
Mr. Dance deals in poetry most days, posting thousands over the years. I assume he has read most if not all before posting

It is a good idea to read something before you post it.

Post by Edward Rochester Esq.
and to believe his above 'lesson' he should be quite the poet himself. He isn't. His doesn't come from the soul,

True; my poems come from my mind and hands; I never could figure out how to get that "soul" to do any work.

Post by Edward Rochester Esq.
the passion is lukewarm at best.

Any examples?

[George J. Dance]

Post by Edward Rochester Esq.

Post by George J. Dance
How to Write Good
(Poetry)

snip

Post by Edward Rochester Esq.

Post by George J. Dance
- GJD, 2020

So, as we can see, you've learned next to nothing.

Troll.

[George J. Dance]

Post by George J. Dance

Post by Edward Rochester Esq.

Post by George J. Dance
How to Write Good
(Poetry)

snip

Post by Edward Rochester Esq.

Post by George J. Dance
- GJD, 2020

So, as we can see, you've learned next to nothing.

Troll.

Silly man...we post we comment. Your attempt to expand on the Bukowski list

Bukowski had a list of who should "be a writer", not a list of ways to write good poems.

is foolish. Your list is nothing more than an odd stutter of 'how to'

Of course it's a "how to", though (unlike many) it also tells the reader why.

Try again.

You want me to make a list of who shouldn't "be a writer" too? Sorry; I'm not interested in telling people not to write.

[Edward Rochester Esq.]

Post by George J. Dance

Post by George J. Dance

Post by Edward Rochester Esq.

Post by George J. Dance
How to Write Good
(Poetry)

snip

Post by Edward Rochester Esq.

Post by George J. Dance
- GJD, 2020

So, as we can see, you've learned next to nothing.

Troll.

Silly man...we post we comment. Your attempt to expand on the Bukowski list

Bukowski had a list of who should "be a writer", not a list of ways to write good poems.

is foolish. Your list is nothing more than an odd stutter of 'how to'

Of course it's a "how to", though (unlike many) it also tells the reader why.

Try again.

You want me to make a list of who shouldn't "be a writer" too? Sorry; I'm not interested in telling people not to write.

Yes, we've seen that.

[Z***@none.i2p]

Post by George J. Dance

Post by Z***@none.i2p
Edward Rochester Esq. wrote on Fri, 03 January 2020 13:16

Post by Edward Rochester Esq.

Post by George J. Dance
How to Write Good
(Poetry)
Do you want to learn
to write good
poetry?
Great: you know what
You want to learn.
But why?
For the money?
Most poets don't make much.
For the fame?
Most poets don't get much.
I used to write
a lot of poems
but I wasn't happy
with them;
I didn't think they were good;
I was never satisfied.
for my own
satisfaction.
If that's why you want
to learn,
we've covered
the what and the why --
But that still leaves
How do you learn
to write good
poetry?
1. Read poetry
2. Practice writing it
That's true enough,
but it is not
It's like telling someone
Who wants to learn to play music,
"1. Listen to a lot of music.
"2. Practice playing it."
What music?
How do you listen to it?
And why?
What do you practice?
How do you practice it?
And why?
So ...
1. Read poetry. What poetry?
Start by reading what you can find.
Bookmark the poems you like
and reread them.
Use the above
to find poets you like,
and read more of their work.
Build a list
of good poems.
2. Read poetry. How do you read it?
Study it.
So, how do you study it?
Reread the poems on your list.
How many times?
Until you memorize them.
If you liked the poem,
you already know
what the poet had to say.
So, this time, pay attention
Try reading them as poems.
Ask: What did you like
about the poem
/as a poem/?
The rhyme,
the cadence,
the word choices
and how they sound
when you read them aloud?
(What you liked
does not have to be
just one thing.)
how the "maker"
made this mass of words
how he wrote a good poem.
3. Read poetry: Why?
As you do the above,
and repeat it,
you are learning
consciously or not
what makes a poem good.
4. Practice writing it. What do you practice?
Find an old draft,
or a not-so-good
poem, of your own.
Compare it to a good poem
from your list.
(A) what did that poet do
that made his a good poem?
(B) Can I do what I liked
about that poem
in mine?
(C)Can I develop that skill?
5. Practice writing it. How do you practice?
Try to answer (B) and (C).
Then do it again
over and over.
Compare one
of the good poems
To more than one of yours,
And one of yours
To more than one good poem.
Do it until
you've learned that skill.
Then use that skill
in your new poems.
6. Practice writing it. Why?
The only way
and all you need
to learn to write good
poetry is to learn
what makes a poem
good; and how
to do that yourself.
Reading and studying
will teach you
what makes a poem good.
Practicing will teach you
consciously or unconsciously
how to do that yourself.
- GJD, 2020

So, as we can see, you've learned next to nothing.

Buk had the method for me.... if you feel it, the poem, Do IT...... and toss those crutches into the ditch.....

Of course; when you feel the poem "bursting forth," write it. That's how you get your drafts. (The OP is a draft, BTW.)

Quite good on a second reading.....!

[George J. Dance]

Post by Z***@none.i2p

Post by George J. Dance

Post by Z***@none.i2p
Edward Rochester Esq. wrote on Fri, 03 January 2020 13:16

Post by Edward Rochester Esq.

Post by George J. Dance
How to Write Good
(Poetry)
Do you want to learn
to write good
poetry?
Great: you know what
You want to learn.
But why?
For the money?
Most poets don't make much.
For the fame?
Most poets don't get much.
I used to write
a lot of poems
but I wasn't happy
with them;
I didn't think they were good;
I was never satisfied.
for my own
satisfaction.
If that's why you want
to learn,
we've covered
the what and the why --
But that still leaves
How do you learn
to write good
poetry?
1. Read poetry
2. Practice writing it
That's true enough,
but it is not
It's like telling someone
Who wants to learn to play music,
"1. Listen to a lot of music.
"2. Practice playing it."
What music?
How do you listen to it?
And why?
What do you practice?
How do you practice it?
And why?
So ...
1. Read poetry. What poetry?
Start by reading what you can find.
Bookmark the poems you like
and reread them.
Use the above
to find poets you like,
and read more of their work.
Build a list
of good poems.
2. Read poetry. How do you read it?
Study it.
So, how do you study it?
Reread the poems on your list.
How many times?
Until you memorize them.
If you liked the poem,
you already know
what the poet had to say.
So, this time, pay attention
Try reading them as poems.
Ask: What did you like
about the poem
/as a poem/?
The rhyme,
the cadence,
the word choices
and how they sound
when you read them aloud?
(What you liked
does not have to be
just one thing.)
how the "maker"
made this mass of words
how he wrote a good poem.
3. Read poetry: Why?
As you do the above,
and repeat it,
you are learning
consciously or not
what makes a poem good.
4. Practice writing it. What do you practice?
Find an old draft,
or a not-so-good
poem, of your own.
Compare it to a good poem
from your list.
(A) what did that poet do
that made his a good poem?
(B) Can I do what I liked
about that poem
in mine?
(C)Can I develop that skill?
5. Practice writing it. How do you practice?
Try to answer (B) and (C).
Then do it again
over and over.
Compare one
of the good poems
To more than one of yours,
And one of yours
To more than one good poem.
Do it until
you've learned that skill.
Then use that skill
in your new poems.
6. Practice writing it. Why?
The only way
and all you need
to learn to write good
poetry is to learn
what makes a poem
good; and how
to do that yourself.
Reading and studying
will teach you
what makes a poem good.
Practicing will teach you
consciously or unconsciously
how to do that yourself.
- GJD, 2020

So, as we can see, you've learned next to nothing.

Buk had the method for me.... if you feel it, the poem, Do IT...... and toss those crutches into the ditch.....

Of course; when you feel the poem "bursting forth," write it. That's how you get your drafts. (The OP is a draft, BTW.)

Quite good on a second reading.....!

Thanks. I wrote it at white heat, but I guess it took a lot out of me; I haven't been inspired to work on it, or even reread it. But I'm glad the theory is finally written down, no longer simply in my head where it couldn't even be read.

At least I had two epiphanies, just before and while writing it, which resonate with me. The first was to solve the "good poem" problem - of how to get the reader to read good poems, while recognizing the subjectivity involved, and not trying to tell him which poems are good and which aren't. Every one of us knows that some poems are better than others - we all like this one, and hate that one - but we also all know it's a matter of taste, and our tastes differ. So how do you untangle those two somewhat contradictory concepts?

My solution was elegant, as it avoids even having to address the issue. Instead, I advise the reader to use his own judgement, and come up with his own canon - his own list of best poems and best authors - and work from those.

(That word 'canon' may be a good idea to put into the poem in revision. I want people to remember and keep using the concept of the "good poem" list, as it's essential; and tagging a concept with a word is the best way to remember it.)

The second epiphany, that I got on rereading is that this whole process is just how I learned to write good poetry, over the past decade. For me there were no poetics to study - or, rather, what there was was scattered all over the group, little pieces hidden here and there in between the flame wars and the gay lames. So basically I learned intuitively, without a study plan. That got me thinking that the process I describe is the way everyone intuitively, or subconsciously, learns to do it.

The person who wants to write good poetry is already a poetry reader, otherwise he wouldn't be interested in the stuff. He already has his favorite poems and favorite authors; assembling his canon will take little additional work, and it will be work that he's already been doing, for enjoyment. That's probably something that should go in as well - though I'm asking the reader to work hard on this, I'm simply telling him to do things he'd do already, on his own - just to do them consciously, with full awareness.

[NancyGene]

The second epiphany, that I got on rereading is that this whole process is just how I learned to write good poetry, over the past decade. [...] So basically I learned intuitively, without a study plan. [...]

Psst, Dunce--you have not learned to write good poetry. You will never learn to write good poetry. You have a fool for a teacher if you are trying to teach yourself.

[George J. Dance]

Post by NancyGene

The second epiphany, that I got on rereading is that this whole process is just how I learned to write good poetry, over the past decade. [...] So basically I learned intuitively, without a study plan. [...]

Psst, Dunce--you have not learned to write good poetry.

I could say the same thing about you, baboon - and have, IIRC.

Post by NancyGene
You will never learn to write good poetry.

Sorry, dear, but your opinions on the subject mean nothing to me.

Post by NancyGene
You have a fool for a teacher if you are trying to teach yourself.

I am still trying to learn new things - it's foolish to think you ever know it all - but I did most of my learning years ago; and I've published enough, and received enough reader feedback, to think I did something right. All your little flaming isn't going to change that.

[Will Dockery]

Post by George J. Dance

Post by NancyGene

The second epiphany, that I got on rereading is that this whole process is just how I learned to write good poetry, over the past decade. [...] So basically I learned intuitively, without a study plan. [...]

Psst, Dunce--you have not learned to write good poetry.

I could say the same thing about you, baboon - and have, IIRC.

Post by NancyGene
You will never learn to write good poetry.

Sorry, dear, but your opinions on the subject mean nothing to me.

Post by NancyGene
You have a fool for a teacher if you are trying to teach yourself.

I am still trying to learn new things - it's foolish to think you ever know it all - but I did most of my learning years ago; and I've published enough, and received enough reader feedback, to think I did something right. All your little flaming isn't going to change that.

At least Nancy G. hasn't started making misogynistic attacks on your wife again, as it was doing about Sandy, again, yesterday:

======================================================

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.arts.poetry.comments/WEyxuEqbuKQ/HEZDwyXGCAAJ

Post by George J. Dance

Post by NancyGene
In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Sun, 29 Dec 2019 10:32:00 -0800 (PST),

Drums - Derundo Jenkins

Shouldn't that be "Drum"?

No, it should be HandySandy. Derundo beats on her too (marital property and all those laws).

===============================================

Your misogynistic attack on Sandy Madaris, and your libel of Derundo Jenkins is noted, Nancy G.

Interesting how maliciously worded posts such as these from anonymous trolls get either no notice, or worse, encouragement and support from some of the ones currently pretending to be outraged over an alleged gay lame made by an impostor troll.

And... so it goes.

[Z***@none.i2p]

Will Dockery wrote on Fri, 10 January 2020 14:58

Post by Will Dockery

Post by George J. Dance

Post by NancyGene

The second epiphany, that I got on rereading is that this whole process is just how I learned to write good poetry, over the past decade. [...] So basically I learned intuitively, without a study plan. [...]

Psst, Dunce--you have not learned to write good poetry.

I could say the same thing about you, baboon - and have, IIRC.

Post by NancyGene
You will never learn to write good poetry.

Sorry, dear, but your opinions on the subject mean nothing to me.

Post by NancyGene
You have a fool for a teacher if you are trying to teach yourself.

I am still trying to learn new things - it's foolish to think you ever know it all - but I did most of my learning years ago; and I've published enough, and received enough reader feedback, to think I did something right. All your little flaming isn't going to change that.

======================================================
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.arts.poetry.comments/WEyxuEqbuKQ/HEZDwyXGCAAJ

Post by George J. Dance

Post by NancyGene
In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Sun, 29 Dec 2019 10:32:00 -0800 (PST),

Drums - Derundo Jenkins

Shouldn't that be "Drum"?

No, it should be HandySandy. Derundo beats on her too (marital property and all those laws).

===============================================
Your misogynistic attack on Sandy Madaris, and your libel of Derundo Jenkins is noted, Nancy G.
Interesting how maliciously worded posts such as these from anonymous trolls get either no notice, or worse, encouragement and support from some of the ones currently pretending to be outraged over an alleged gay lame made by an impostor troll.
And... so it goes.

Nether Sandy Madaris or Derundo Jenkins deserve this malicious stalking....

[Coco DeSockmonkey]

Post by Z***@none.i2p
Will Dockery wrote on Fri, 10 January 2020 14:58

Post by Will Dockery

Post by George J. Dance

Post by NancyGene

The second epiphany, that I got on rereading is that this whole process is just how I learned to write good poetry, over the past decade. [...] So basically I learned intuitively, without a study plan. [...]

Psst, Dunce--you have not learned to write good poetry.

I could say the same thing about you, baboon - and have, IIRC.

Post by NancyGene
You will never learn to write good poetry.

Sorry, dear, but your opinions on the subject mean nothing to me.

Post by NancyGene
You have a fool for a teacher if you are trying to teach yourself.

I am still trying to learn new things - it's foolish to think you ever know it all - but I did most of my learning years ago; and I've published enough, and received enough reader feedback, to think I did something right. All your little flaming isn't going to change that.

======================================================
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.arts.poetry.comments/WEyxuEqbuKQ/HEZDwyXGCAAJ

Post by George J. Dance

Post by NancyGene
In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Sun, 29 Dec 2019 10:32:00 -0800 (PST),

Drums - Derundo Jenkins

Shouldn't that be "Drum"?

No, it should be HandySandy. Derundo beats on her too (marital property and all those laws).

===============================================
Your misogynistic attack on Sandy Madaris, and your libel of Derundo Jenkins is noted, Nancy G.
Interesting how maliciously worded posts such as these from anonymous trolls get either no notice, or worse, encouragement and support from some of the ones currently pretending to be outraged over an alleged gay lame made by an impostor troll.
And... so it goes.

Nether Sandy Madaris or Derundo Jenkins deserve this malicious stalking....

I haven't seen any stalking, but Derundo deserves a full set of drums, dammit!


Michael Pendragon
“It was not a gay lame as the language was respectful.....!!”
-- Stinky George Sulzbach, illiterate, perpetually sloshed, career pissbum

[Z***@none.i2p]

Coco DeSockmonkey wrote on Fri, 10 January 2020 19:54

Post by Coco DeSockmonkey

Post by Z***@none.i2p
Will Dockery wrote on Fri, 10 January 2020 14:58

Post by Will Dockery

Post by George J. Dance

Post by NancyGene

The second epiphany, that I got on rereading is that this whole process is just how I learned to write good poetry, over the past decade. [....] So basically I learned intuitively, without a study plan. [...]

Psst, Dunce--you have not learned to write good poetry.

I could say the same thing about you, baboon - and have, IIRC.

Post by NancyGene
You will never learn to write good poetry.

Sorry, dear, but your opinions on the subject mean nothing to me.

Post by NancyGene
You have a fool for a teacher if you are trying to teach yourself.

I am still trying to learn new things - it's foolish to think you ever know it all - but I did most of my learning years ago; and I've published enough, and received enough reader feedback, to think I did something right. All your little flaming isn't going to change that.

======================================================
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.arts.poetry.comments/WEyxuEqbuKQ/HEZDwyXGCAAJ

Post by George J. Dance

Post by NancyGene
In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Sun, 29 Dec 2019 10:32:00 -0800 (PST),

Drums - Derundo Jenkins

Shouldn't that be "Drum"?

No, it should be HandySandy. Derundo beats on her too (marital property and all those laws).

===============================================
Your misogynistic attack on Sandy Madaris, and your libel of Derundo Jenkins is noted, Nancy G.
Interesting how maliciously worded posts such as these from anonymous trolls get either no notice, or worse, encouragement and support from some of the ones currently pretending to be outraged over an alleged gay lame made by an impostor troll.
And... so it goes.

Nether Sandy Madaris or Derundo Jenkins deserve this malicious stalking.....

I haven't seen any stalking, but Derundo deserves a full set of drums, dammit!

He has a set.........

[Coco DeSockmonkey]

Post by Z***@none.i2p
Coco DeSockmonkey wrote on Fri, 10 January 2020 19:54

Post by Coco DeSockmonkey

Post by Z***@none.i2p
Will Dockery wrote on Fri, 10 January 2020 14:58

Post by Will Dockery

Post by George J. Dance

Post by NancyGene

The second epiphany, that I got on rereading is that this whole process is just how I learned to write good poetry, over the past decade. [....] So basically I learned intuitively, without a study plan. [...]

Psst, Dunce--you have not learned to write good poetry.

I could say the same thing about you, baboon - and have, IIRC.

Post by NancyGene
You will never learn to write good poetry.

Sorry, dear, but your opinions on the subject mean nothing to me.

Post by NancyGene
You have a fool for a teacher if you are trying to teach yourself.

I am still trying to learn new things - it's foolish to think you ever know it all - but I did most of my learning years ago; and I've published enough, and received enough reader feedback, to think I did something right. All your little flaming isn't going to change that.

======================================================
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.arts.poetry.comments/WEyxuEqbuKQ/HEZDwyXGCAAJ

Post by George J. Dance

Post by NancyGene
In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Sun, 29 Dec 2019 10:32:00 -0800 (PST),

Drums - Derundo Jenkins

Shouldn't that be "Drum"?

No, it should be HandySandy. Derundo beats on her too (marital property and all those laws).

===============================================
Your misogynistic attack on Sandy Madaris, and your libel of Derundo Jenkins is noted, Nancy G.
Interesting how maliciously worded posts such as these from anonymous trolls get either no notice, or worse, encouragement and support from some of the ones currently pretending to be outraged over an alleged gay lame made by an impostor troll.
And... so it goes.

Nether Sandy Madaris or Derundo Jenkins deserve this malicious stalking.....

I haven't seen any stalking, but Derundo deserves a full set of drums, dammit!

He has a set.........

And I'm sure he lets you beat on them.


Michael Pendragon
“Well, knowing Sulzbach as I do, I was pleasantly surprised he decided to spend the money on something other than booze and drugs. Or beer, wine, weed or hookers... ”
-- Wee Whiny Willie Dockery, quintessential dumbfuck, pissbum

[Z***@none.i2p]

Coco DeSockmonkey wrote on Fri, 10 January 2020 20:17

[color=blue]>

Post by Z***@none.i2p

Post by Coco DeSockmonkey

Post by Z***@none.i2p

Post by Will Dockery

Post by George J. Dance

Post by NancyGene

The second epiphany, that I got on rereading is that this whole process is just how I learned to write good poetry, over the past decade. [....] So basically I learned intuitively, without a study plan. [...]

Psst, Dunce--you have not learned to write good poetry.

I could say the same thing about you, baboon - and have, IIRC.

Post by NancyGene
You will never learn to write good poetry.

Sorry, dear, but your opinions on the subject mean nothing to me.

Post by NancyGene
You have a fool for a teacher if you are trying to teach yourself.

I am still trying to learn new things - it's foolish to think you ever know it all - but I did most of my learning years ago; and I've published enough, and received enough reader feedback, to think I did something right. All your little flaming isn't going to change that.

======================================================
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.arts.poetry.comments/WEyxuEqbuKQ/HEZDwyXGCAAJ

Post by George J. Dance

Post by NancyGene
In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Sun, 29 Dec 2019 10:32:00 -0800 (PST),

Drums - Derundo Jenkins

Shouldn't that be "Drum"?

No, it should be HandySandy. Derundo beats on her too (marital property and all those laws).

===============================================
Your misogynistic attack on Sandy Madaris, and your libel of Derundo Jenkins is noted, Nancy G.
Interesting how maliciously worded posts such as these from anonymous trolls get either no notice, or worse, encouragement and support from some of the ones currently pretending to be outraged over an alleged gay lame made by an impostor troll.
And... so it goes.

Nether Sandy Madaris or Derundo Jenkins deserve this malicious stalking.....

I haven't seen any stalking, but Derundo deserves a full set of drums, dammit!

He has a set.........

And I'm sure he lets you beat on them.

No.....

Never mess with a drummer's gear.......

[ME]

Post by Z***@none.i2p
Coco DeSockmonkey wrote on Fri, 10 January 2020 20:17

[color=blue]>

Post by Z***@none.i2p

Post by Coco DeSockmonkey

Post by Z***@none.i2p

Post by Will Dockery

Post by George J. Dance

Post by NancyGene

The second epiphany, that I got on rereading is that this whole process is just how I learned to write good poetry, over the past decade. [....] So basically I learned intuitively, without a study plan. [...]

Psst, Dunce--you have not learned to write good poetry.

I could say the same thing about you, baboon - and have, IIRC.

Post by NancyGene
You will never learn to write good poetry.

Sorry, dear, but your opinions on the subject mean nothing to me.

Post by NancyGene
You have a fool for a teacher if you are trying to teach yourself.

I am still trying to learn new things - it's foolish to think you ever know it all - but I did most of my learning years ago; and I've published enough, and received enough reader feedback, to think I did something right. All your little flaming isn't going to change that.

======================================================
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.arts.poetry.comments/WEyxuEqbuKQ/HEZDwyXGCAAJ

Post by George J. Dance

Post by NancyGene
In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Sun, 29 Dec 2019 10:32:00 -0800 (PST),

Drums - Derundo Jenkins

Shouldn't that be "Drum"?

No, it should be HandySandy. Derundo beats on her too (marital property and all those laws).

===============================================
Your misogynistic attack on Sandy Madaris, and your libel of Derundo Jenkins is noted, Nancy G.
Interesting how maliciously worded posts such as these from anonymous trolls get either no notice, or worse, encouragement and support from some of the ones currently pretending to be outraged over an alleged gay lame made by an impostor troll.
And... so it goes.

Nether Sandy Madaris or Derundo Jenkins deserve this malicious stalking.....

I haven't seen any stalking, but Derundo deserves a full set of drums, dammit!

He has a set.........

And I'm sure he lets you beat on them.

No.....
Never mess with a drummer's gear.......

Spoken like a band member.....

[Z***@none.i2p]

ME[8

Post by Z***@none.i2p
Coco DeSockmonkey wrote on Fri, 10 January 2020 20:17

[color=teal]>> >

Post by Z***@none.i2p

Post by Coco DeSockmonkey

Post by Z***@none.i2p

Post by Coco DeSockmonkey

Post by Z***@none.i2p

Post by Will Dockery

Post by George J. Dance

Post by NancyGene

The second epiphany, that I got on rereading is that this whole process is just how I learned to write good poetry, over the past decade. [....] So basically I learned intuitively, without a study plan. [...]

Psst, Dunce--you have not learned to write good poetry.

I could say the same thing about you, baboon - and have, IIRC.

Post by NancyGene
You will never learn to write good poetry.

Sorry, dear, but your opinions on the subject mean nothing to me.

Post by NancyGene
You have a fool for a teacher if you are trying to teach yourself.

I am still trying to learn new things - it's foolish to think you ever know it all - but I did most of my learning years ago; and I've published enough, and received enough reader feedback, to think I did something right. All your little flaming isn't going to change that.

======================================================
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.arts.poetry.comments/WEyxuEqbuKQ/HEZDwyXGCAAJ

Post by George J. Dance

Post by NancyGene
In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Sun, 29 Dec 2019 10:32:00 -0800 (PST),

Drums - Derundo Jenkins

Shouldn't that be "Drum"?

No, it should be HandySandy. Derundo beats on her too (marital property and all those laws).

===============================================
Your misogynistic attack on Sandy Madaris, and your libel of Derundo Jenkins is noted, Nancy G.
Interesting how maliciously worded posts such as these from anonymous trolls get either no notice, or worse, encouragement and support from some of the ones currently pretending to be outraged over an alleged gay lame made by an impostor troll.
And... so it goes.

Nether Sandy Madaris or Derundo Jenkins deserve this malicious stalking.....

I haven't seen any stalking, but Derundo deserves a full set of drums, dammit!

He has a set.........

And I'm sure he lets you beat on them.

No.....
Never mess with a drummer's gear.......

Spoken like a band member.....

One of life's rules.......

Never mess with a biker's bike....... or a drummer's drums.......

[Edward Rochester Esq.]

Post by Z***@none.i2p
ME[8

Post by Z***@none.i2p
Coco DeSockmonkey wrote on Fri, 10 January 2020 20:17

[color=teal]>> >

Post by Z***@none.i2p

Post by Coco DeSockmonkey

Post by Z***@none.i2p

Post by Coco DeSockmonkey

Post by Z***@none.i2p

Post by Will Dockery

Post by George J. Dance

Post by NancyGene

The second epiphany, that I got on rereading is that this whole process is just how I learned to write good poetry, over the past decade. [....] So basically I learned intuitively, without a study plan. [...]

Psst, Dunce--you have not learned to write good poetry.

I could say the same thing about you, baboon - and have, IIRC.

Post by NancyGene
You will never learn to write good poetry.

Sorry, dear, but your opinions on the subject mean nothing to me.

Post by NancyGene
You have a fool for a teacher if you are trying to teach yourself.

I am still trying to learn new things - it's foolish to think you ever know it all - but I did most of my learning years ago; and I've published enough, and received enough reader feedback, to think I did something right. All your little flaming isn't going to change that.

======================================================
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.arts.poetry.comments/WEyxuEqbuKQ/HEZDwyXGCAAJ

Post by George J. Dance

Post by NancyGene
In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Sun, 29 Dec 2019 10:32:00 -0800 (PST),

Drums - Derundo Jenkins

Shouldn't that be "Drum"?

No, it should be HandySandy. Derundo beats on her too (marital property and all those laws).

===============================================
Your misogynistic attack on Sandy Madaris, and your libel of Derundo Jenkins is noted, Nancy G.
Interesting how maliciously worded posts such as these from anonymous trolls get either no notice, or worse, encouragement and support from some of the ones currently pretending to be outraged over an alleged gay lame made by an impostor troll.
And... so it goes.

Nether Sandy Madaris or Derundo Jenkins deserve this malicious stalking.....

I haven't seen any stalking, but Derundo deserves a full set of drums, dammit!

He has a set.........

And I'm sure he lets you beat on them.

No.....
Never mess with a drummer's gear.......

Spoken like a band member.....

One of life's rules.......
Never mess with a biker's bike....... or a drummer's drums.......

or corey, he is a mean fighting machine.

[Michael Pendragon]

Edward Rochester Esq. wrote on Fri, 10 January 2020 20:42

Post by Z***@none.i2p
ME[8

Post by ME

Post by Z***@none.i2p
Coco DeSockmonkey wrote on Fri, 10 January 2020 20:17

[color=teal]>> >> >

Post by Z***@none.i2p

Post by ME

Post by Z***@none.i2p

Post by Coco DeSockmonkey

Post by Z***@none.i2p

Post by Coco DeSockmonkey

Post by Z***@none.i2p

Post by Will Dockery

Post by George J. Dance

Post by NancyGene

The second epiphany, that I got on rereading is that this whole process is just how I learned to write good poetry, over the past decade. [....] So basically I learned intuitively, without a study plan. [...]

Psst, Dunce--you have not learned to write good poetry.

I could say the same thing about you, baboon - and have, IIRC.

Post by NancyGene
You will never learn to write good poetry.

Sorry, dear, but your opinions on the subject mean nothing to me.

Post by NancyGene
You have a fool for a teacher if you are trying to teach yourself.

I am still trying to learn new things - it's foolish to think you ever know it all - but I did most of my learning years ago; and I've published enough, and received enough reader feedback, to think I did something right. All your little flaming isn't going to change that.

======================================================
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.arts.poetry.comments/WEyxuEqbuKQ/HEZDwyXGCAAJ

Post by George J. Dance

Post by NancyGene
In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Sun, 29 Dec 2019 10:32:00 -0800 (PST),

Drums - Derundo Jenkins

Shouldn't that be "Drum"?

No, it should be HandySandy. Derundo beats on her too (marital property and all those laws).

===============================================
Your misogynistic attack on Sandy Madaris, and your libel of Derundo Jenkins is noted, Nancy G.
Interesting how maliciously worded posts such as these from anonymous trolls get either no notice, or worse, encouragement and support from some of the ones currently pretending to be outraged over an alleged gay lame made by an impostor troll.
And... so it goes.

Nether Sandy Madaris or Derundo Jenkins deserve this malicious stalking.....

I haven't seen any stalking, but Derundo deserves a full set of drums, dammit!

He has a set.........

And I'm sure he lets you beat on them.

No.....
Never mess with a drummer's gear.......

Spoken like a band member.....

One of life's rules.......
Never mess with a biker's bike....... or a drummer's drums.......

or corey, he is a mean fighting machine.

So I have noticed.........

He likes to boast about how he pushes wheelchair bound veterans around.


Michael Pendragon
“I'd think so, but never underestimate the stupidity of a troll.”
-- Wee Whiny Willie Dockery, quintessential dumb fuck, pissbum & troll

[H***@novabbs.i2p]

George J. Dance wrote on Fri, 03 January 2020 12:52

Post by George J. Dance
How to Write Good
(Poetry)
Do you want to learn
to write good
poetry?
Great: you know what
You want to learn.
But why?
For the money?
Most poets don't make much.
For the fame?
Most poets don't get much.
I used to write
a lot of poems
but I wasn't happy
with them;
I didn't think they were good;
I was never satisfied.
for my own
satisfaction.
If that's why you want
to learn,
we've covered
the what and the why --
But that still leaves
How do you learn
to write good
poetry?
1. Read poetry
2. Practice writing it
That's true enough,
but it is not
It's like telling someone
Who wants to learn to play music,
"1. Listen to a lot of music.
"2. Practice playing it."
What music?
How do you listen to it?
And why?
What do you practice?
How do you practice it?
And why?
So ...
1. Read poetry. What poetry?
Start by reading what you can find.
Bookmark the poems you like
and reread them.
Use the above
to find poets you like,
and read more of their work.
Build a list
of good poems.
2. Read poetry. How do you read it?
Study it.
So, how do you study it?
Reread the poems on your list.
How many times?
Until you memorize them.
If you liked the poem,
you already know
what the poet had to say.
So, this time, pay attention
Try reading them as poems.
Ask: What did you like
about the poem
/as a poem/?
The rhyme,
the cadence,
the word choices
and how they sound
when you read them aloud?
(What you liked
does not have to be
just one thing.)
how the "maker"
made this mass of words
how he wrote a good poem.
3. Read poetry: Why?
As you do the above,
and repeat it,
you are learning
consciously or not
what makes a poem good.
4. Practice writing it. What do you practice?
Find an old draft,
or a not-so-good
poem, of your own.
Compare it to a good poem
from your list.
(A) what did that poet do
that made his a good poem?
(B) Can I do what I liked
about that poem
in mine?
(C)Can I develop that skill?
5. Practice writing it. How do you practice?
Try to answer (B) and (C).
Then do it again
over and over.
Compare one
of the good poems
To more than one of yours,
And one of yours
To more than one good poem.
Do it until
you've learned that skill.
Then use that skill
in your new poems.
6. Practice writing it. Why?
The only way
and all you need
to learn to write good
poetry is to learn
what makes a poem
good; and how
to do that yourself.
Reading and studying
will teach you
what makes a poem good.
Practicing will teach you
consciously or unconsciously
how to do that yourself.
- GJD, 2020

Good for study.....

[H***@novabbs.i2p]

George J. Dance wrote on Fri, 03 January 2020 12:52

Post by George J. Dance
How to Write Good
(Poetry)
Do you want to learn
to write good
poetry?
Great: you know what
You want to learn.
But why?
For the money?
Most poets don't make much.
For the fame?
Most poets don't get much.
I used to write
a lot of poems
but I wasn't happy
with them;
I didn't think they were good;
I was never satisfied.
for my own
satisfaction.
If that's why you want
to learn,
we've covered
the what and the why --
But that still leaves
How do you learn
to write good
poetry?
1. Read poetry
2. Practice writing it
That's true enough,
but it is not
It's like telling someone
Who wants to learn to play music,
"1. Listen to a lot of music.
"2. Practice playing it."
What music?
How do you listen to it?
And why?
What do you practice?
How do you practice it?
And why?
So ...
1. Read poetry. What poetry?
Start by reading what you can find.
Bookmark the poems you like
and reread them.
Use the above
to find poets you like,
and read more of their work.
Build a list
of good poems.
2. Read poetry. How do you read it?
Study it.
So, how do you study it?
Reread the poems on your list.
How many times?
Until you memorize them.
If you liked the poem,
you already know
what the poet had to say.
So, this time, pay attention
Try reading them as poems.
Ask: What did you like
about the poem
/as a poem/?
The rhyme,
the cadence,
the word choices
and how they sound
when you read them aloud?
(What you liked
does not have to be
just one thing.)
how the "maker"
made this mass of words
how he wrote a good poem.
3. Read poetry: Why?
As you do the above,
and repeat it,
you are learning
consciously or not
what makes a poem good.
4. Practice writing it. What do you practice?
Find an old draft,
or a not-so-good
poem, of your own.
Compare it to a good poem
from your list.
(A) what did that poet do
that made his a good poem?
(B) Can I do what I liked
about that poem
in mine?
(C)Can I develop that skill?
5. Practice writing it. How do you practice?
Try to answer (B) and (C).
Then do it again
over and over.
Compare one
of the good poems
To more than one of yours,
And one of yours
To more than one good poem.
Do it until
you've learned that skill.
Then use that skill
in your new poems.
6. Practice writing it. Why?
The only way
and all you need
to learn to write good
poetry is to learn
what makes a poem
good; and how
to do that yourself.
Reading and studying
will teach you
what makes a poem good.
Practicing will teach you
consciously or unconsciously
how to do that yourself.
- GJD, 2020

Having another read....

[H***@novabbs.i2p]

George J. Dance wrote on Fri, 03 January 2020 12:52

Post by George J. Dance
How to Write Good
(Poetry)
Do you want to learn
to write good
poetry?
Great: you know what
You want to learn.
But why?
For the money?
Most poets don't make much.
For the fame?
Most poets don't get much.
I used to write
a lot of poems
but I wasn't happy
with them;
I didn't think they were good;
I was never satisfied.
for my own
satisfaction.
If that's why you want
to learn,
we've covered
the what and the why --
But that still leaves
How do you learn
to write good
poetry?
1. Read poetry
2. Practice writing it
That's true enough,
but it is not
It's like telling someone
Who wants to learn to play music,
"1. Listen to a lot of music.
"2. Practice playing it."
What music?
How do you listen to it?
And why?
What do you practice?
How do you practice it?
And why?
So ...
1. Read poetry. What poetry?
Start by reading what you can find.
Bookmark the poems you like
and reread them.
Use the above
to find poets you like,
and read more of their work.
Build a list
of good poems.
2. Read poetry. How do you read it?
Study it.
So, how do you study it?
Reread the poems on your list.
How many times?
Until you memorize them.
If you liked the poem,
you already know
what the poet had to say.
So, this time, pay attention
Try reading them as poems.
Ask: What did you like
about the poem
/as a poem/?
The rhyme,
the cadence,
the word choices
and how they sound
when you read them aloud?
(What you liked
does not have to be
just one thing.)
how the "maker"
made this mass of words
how he wrote a good poem.
3. Read poetry: Why?
As you do the above,
and repeat it,
you are learning
consciously or not
what makes a poem good.
4. Practice writing it. What do you practice?
Find an old draft,
or a not-so-good
poem, of your own.
Compare it to a good poem
from your list.
(A) what did that poet do
that made his a good poem?
(B) Can I do what I liked
about that poem
in mine?
(C)Can I develop that skill?
5. Practice writing it. How do you practice?
Try to answer (B) and (C).
Then do it again
over and over.
Compare one
of the good poems
To more than one of yours,
And one of yours
To more than one good poem.
Do it until
you've learned that skill.
Then use that skill
in your new poems.
6. Practice writing it. Why?
The only way
and all you need
to learn to write good
poetry is to learn
what makes a poem
good; and how
to do that yourself.
Reading and studying
will teach you
what makes a poem good.
Practicing will teach you
consciously or unconsciously
how to do that yourself.
- GJD, 2020

Good one to keep handy....

[Z***@novabbs.i2p]

George J. Dance wrote on Fri, 03 January 2020 12:52

Post by George J. Dance
How to Write Good
(Poetry)
Do you want to learn
to write good
poetry?
Great: you know what
You want to learn.
But why?
For the money?
Most poets don't make much.
For the fame?
Most poets don't get much.
I used to write
a lot of poems
but I wasn't happy
with them;
I didn't think they were good;
I was never satisfied.
for my own
satisfaction.
If that's why you want
to learn,
we've covered
the what and the why --
But that still leaves
How do you learn
to write good
poetry?
1. Read poetry
2. Practice writing it
That's true enough,
but it is not
It's like telling someone
Who wants to learn to play music,
"1. Listen to a lot of music.
"2. Practice playing it."
What music?
How do you listen to it?
And why?
What do you practice?
How do you practice it?
And why?
So ...
1. Read poetry. What poetry?
Start by reading what you can find.
Bookmark the poems you like
and reread them.
Use the above
to find poets you like,
and read more of their work.
Build a list
of good poems.
2. Read poetry. How do you read it?
Study it.
So, how do you study it?
Reread the poems on your list.
How many times?
Until you memorize them.
If you liked the poem,
you already know
what the poet had to say.
So, this time, pay attention
Try reading them as poems.
Ask: What did you like
about the poem
/as a poem/?
The rhyme,
the cadence,
the word choices
and how they sound
when you read them aloud?
(What you liked
does not have to be
just one thing.)
how the "maker"
made this mass of words
how he wrote a good poem.
3. Read poetry: Why?
As you do the above,
and repeat it,
you are learning
consciously or not
what makes a poem good.
4. Practice writing it. What do you practice?
Find an old draft,
or a not-so-good
poem, of your own.
Compare it to a good poem
from your list.
(A) what did that poet do
that made his a good poem?
(B) Can I do what I liked
about that poem
in mine?
(C)Can I develop that skill?
5. Practice writing it. How do you practice?
Try to answer (B) and (C).
Then do it again
over and over.
Compare one
of the good poems
To more than one of yours,
And one of yours
To more than one good poem.
Do it until
you've learned that skill.
Then use that skill
in your new poems.
6. Practice writing it. Why?
The only way
and all you need
to learn to write good
poetry is to learn
what makes a poem
good; and how
to do that yourself.
Reading and studying
will teach you
what makes a poem good.
Practicing will teach you
consciously or unconsciously
how to do that yourself.
- GJD, 2020

Here, ME.....

Study this....

[Z***@none.i2p]

George J. Dance wrote on Fri, 03 January 2020 12:52

Post by George J. Dance
How to Write Good
(Poetry)
Do you want to learn
to write good
poetry?
Great: you know what
You want to learn.
But why?
For the money?
Most poets don't make much.
For the fame?
Most poets don't get much.
I used to write
a lot of poems
but I wasn't happy
with them;
I didn't think they were good;
I was never satisfied.
for my own
satisfaction.
If that's why you want
to learn,
we've covered
the what and the why --
But that still leaves
How do you learn
to write good
poetry?
1. Read poetry
2. Practice writing it
That's true enough,
but it is not
It's like telling someone
Who wants to learn to play music,
"1. Listen to a lot of music.
"2. Practice playing it."
What music?
How do you listen to it?
And why?
What do you practice?
How do you practice it?
And why?
So ...
1. Read poetry. What poetry?
Start by reading what you can find.
Bookmark the poems you like
and reread them.
Use the above
to find poets you like,
and read more of their work.
Build a list
of good poems.
2. Read poetry. How do you read it?
Study it.
So, how do you study it?
Reread the poems on your list.
How many times?
Until you memorize them.
If you liked the poem,
you already know
what the poet had to say.
So, this time, pay attention
Try reading them as poems.
Ask: What did you like
about the poem
/as a poem/?
The rhyme,
the cadence,
the word choices
and how they sound
when you read them aloud?
(What you liked
does not have to be
just one thing.)
how the "maker"
made this mass of words
how he wrote a good poem.
3. Read poetry: Why?
As you do the above,
and repeat it,
you are learning
consciously or not
what makes a poem good.
4. Practice writing it. What do you practice?
Find an old draft,
or a not-so-good
poem, of your own.
Compare it to a good poem
from your list.
(A) what did that poet do
that made his a good poem?
(B) Can I do what I liked
about that poem
in mine?
(C)Can I develop that skill?
5. Practice writing it. How do you practice?
Try to answer (B) and (C).
Then do it again
over and over.
Compare one
of the good poems
To more than one of yours,
And one of yours
To more than one good poem.
Do it until
you've learned that skill.
Then use that skill
in your new poems.
6. Practice writing it. Why?
The only way
and all you need
to learn to write good
poetry is to learn
what makes a poem
good; and how
to do that yourself.
Reading and studying
will teach you
what makes a poem good.
Practicing will teach you
consciously or unconsciously
how to do that yourself.
- GJD, 2020

Bears repeating for all aspiring poets.....

[George J. Dance]

Post by H***@novabbs.i2p
George J. Dance wrote on Fri, 03 January 2020 12:52

Post by George J. Dance
How to Write Good
(Poetry)
Do you want to learn
to write good
poetry?
Great: you know what
You want to learn.
But why?
For the money?
Most poets don't make much.
For the fame?
Most poets don't get much.
I used to write
a lot of poems
but I wasn't happy
with them;
I didn't think they were good;
I was never satisfied.
for my own
satisfaction.
If that's why you want
to learn,
we've covered
the what and the why --
But that still leaves
How do you learn
to write good
poetry?
1. Read poetry
2. Practice writing it
That's true enough,
but it is not
It's like telling someone
Who wants to learn to play music,
"1. Listen to a lot of music.
"2. Practice playing it."
What music?
How do you listen to it?
And why?
What do you practice?
How do you practice it?
And why?
So ...
1. Read poetry. What poetry?
Start by reading what you can find.
Bookmark the poems you like
and reread them.
Use the above
to find poets you like,
and read more of their work.
Build a list
of good poems.
2. Read poetry. How do you read it?
Study it.
So, how do you study it?
Reread the poems on your list.
How many times?
Until you memorize them.
If you liked the poem,
you already know
what the poet had to say.
So, this time, pay attention
Try reading them as poems.
Ask: What did you like
about the poem
/as a poem/?
The rhyme,
the cadence,
the word choices
and how they sound
when you read them aloud?
(What you liked
does not have to be
just one thing.)
how the "maker"
made this mass of words
how he wrote a good poem.
3. Read poetry: Why?
As you do the above,
and repeat it,
you are learning
consciously or not
what makes a poem good.
4. Practice writing it. What do you practice?
Find an old draft,
or a not-so-good
poem, of your own.
Compare it to a good poem
from your list.
(A) what did that poet do
that made his a good poem?
(B) Can I do what I liked
about that poem
in mine?
(C)Can I develop that skill?
5. Practice writing it. How do you practice?
Try to answer (B) and (C).
Then do it again
over and over.
Compare one
of the good poems
To more than one of yours,
And one of yours
To more than one good poem.
Do it until
you've learned that skill.
Then use that skill
in your new poems.
6. Practice writing it. Why?
The only way
and all you need
to learn to write good
poetry is to learn
what makes a poem
good; and how
to do that yourself.
Reading and studying
will teach you
what makes a poem good.
Practicing will teach you
consciously or unconsciously
how to do that yourself.
- GJD, 2020

Bears repeating for all aspiring poets.....

You're still reading this? I'm honored. I still read it now and then, of course.

I've done a little bit of revising, but not enough at this point to post a new version. The big thing is I added a word to name what I called the "list of good poems" - it's now called the 'canon.' I don't think having to learn to use one new word makes it all that more difficult; and I'm hopeful that learning the word and concept together might even make it easier to grasp and remember the concept.

[Z***@none.i2p]

George J. Dance wrote on Thu, 23 April 2020 23:35

Post by George J. Dance

Post by H***@novabbs.i2p
George J. Dance wrote on Fri, 03 January 2020 12:52

Post by George J. Dance
How to Write Good
(Poetry)
Do you want to learn
to write good
poetry?
Great: you know what
You want to learn.
But why?
For the money?
Most poets don't make much.
For the fame?
Most poets don't get much.
I used to write
a lot of poems
but I wasn't happy
with them;
I didn't think they were good;
I was never satisfied.
for my own
satisfaction.
If that's why you want
to learn,
we've covered
the what and the why --
But that still leaves
How do you learn
to write good
poetry?
1. Read poetry
2. Practice writing it
That's true enough,
but it is not
It's like telling someone
Who wants to learn to play music,
"1. Listen to a lot of music.
"2. Practice playing it."
What music?
How do you listen to it?
And why?
What do you practice?
How do you practice it?
And why?
So ...
1. Read poetry. What poetry?
Start by reading what you can find.
Bookmark the poems you like
and reread them.
Use the above
to find poets you like,
and read more of their work.
Build a list
of good poems.
2. Read poetry. How do you read it?
Study it.
So, how do you study it?
Reread the poems on your list.
How many times?
Until you memorize them.
If you liked the poem,
you already know
what the poet had to say.
So, this time, pay attention
Try reading them as poems.
Ask: What did you like
about the poem
/as a poem/?
The rhyme,
the cadence,
the word choices
and how they sound
when you read them aloud?
(What you liked
does not have to be
just one thing.)
how the "maker"
made this mass of words
how he wrote a good poem.
3. Read poetry: Why?
As you do the above,
and repeat it,
you are learning
consciously or not
what makes a poem good.
4. Practice writing it. What do you practice?
Find an old draft,
or a not-so-good
poem, of your own.
Compare it to a good poem
from your list.
(A) what did that poet do
that made his a good poem?
(B) Can I do what I liked
about that poem
in mine?
(C)Can I develop that skill?
5. Practice writing it. How do you practice?
Try to answer (B) and (C).
Then do it again
over and over.
Compare one
of the good poems
To more than one of yours,
And one of yours
To more than one good poem.
Do it until
you've learned that skill.
Then use that skill
in your new poems.
6. Practice writing it. Why?
The only way
and all you need
to learn to write good
poetry is to learn
what makes a poem
good; and how
to do that yourself.
Reading and studying
will teach you
what makes a poem good.
Practicing will teach you
consciously or unconsciously
how to do that yourself.
- GJD, 2020

Bears repeating for all aspiring poets.....

You're still reading this? I'm honored. I still read it now and then, of course.
I've done a little bit of revising, but not enough at this point to post a new version. The big thing is I added a word to name what I called the "list of good poems" - it's now called the 'canon.' I don't think having to learn to use one new word makes it all that more difficult; and I'm hopeful that learning the word and concept together might even make it easier to grasp and remember the concept.

Yes, I find it an outstanding pocket guide.....

[Rocky]

Bears repeating....

[Zod]

Good read G.D.

[Will-Dockery]

Post by George J. Dance
How to Write Goo
(Poetry
Do you want to learn
to write goo
poetry
Great: you know wha
You want to learn
But why
For the money?
Most poets don't make much
For the fame?
Most poets don't get much
Or maybe you're like me
I used to writ
a lot of poem
but I wasn't happ
with them
I didn't think they were good;
I was never satisfied
That's why I learn
for my ow
satisfaction
If that's why you wan
to learn
we've covere
the what and the why -
But that still leave
the how
How do you lear
to write goo
poetry
Short answer
1. Read poetr
2. Practice writing i
That's true enough,
but it is not
It's like telling someone
Who wants to learn to play music
"1. Listen to a lot of music
"2. Practice playing it."
What music?
How do you listen to it
And why?
What do you practice?
How do you practice it
And why?
So ..
Long answer
1. Read poetry. What poetry?
Start by reading what you can find.
Bookmark the poems you lik
and reread them.
Use the abov
to find poets you like,
and read more of their work.
Build a list
of good poems
2. Read poetry. How do you read it
Study it.
So, how do you study it
Reread the poems on your list
How many times?
Until you memorize them
If you liked the poem
you already kno
what the poet had to say.
So, this time, pay attention
to how he said it
Try reading them as poems
Ask: What did you lik
about the poe
/as a poem/
The rhyme,
the cadence
the word choice
and how they sound
when you read them aloud
(What you like
does not have to b
just one thing.)
Discover the skill
how the "maker
made this mass of word
Into a poem you liked
how he wrote a good poem
3. Read poetry: Why?
As you do the above,
and repeat it
you are learnin
consciously or no
what makes a poem good
4. Practice writing it. What do you practice
Find an old draft,
or a not-so-good
poem, of your own
Compare it to a good poem
from your list
Remind yourself
(A) what did that poet d
that made his a good poem?
Then ask
(B) Can I do what I like
about that poe
in mine?
(C)Can I develop that skill
5. Practice writing it. How do you practice?
Try to answer (B) and (C).
Then do it agai
over and over.
Feel free to mix and match
Compare one
of the good poem
To more than one of yours
And one of your
To more than one good poem.
Do it until
you've learned that skill
Then use that skil
in your new poems
6. Practice writing it. Why
The only wa
and all you nee
to learn to write goo
poetry is to learn
what makes a poem
good; and ho
to do that yourself
Reading and studying
will teach yo
what makes a poem good
Practicing will teach yo
consciously or unconsciousl
how to do that yourself
- GJD, 202

Again, lest we forget




This is a response to the post seen at
http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=659884573#65988457