Discussion:
"Ozone Stigmata" / Will Dockery & Henry Conley
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Will Dockery
2020-05-16 17:18:31 UTC
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"Ozone Stigmata" (Will Dockery & Henry Conley) performed by Jack Snipe
https://soundcloud.com/jacksnipe05/ozone-stigmata-second-draft

"Ozone Stigmata"

On another level
About a thousand years ago-
I tried to hold her
And my heart won't let go.

In countless variations
Just another two old souls.
And this net... net... net...
Don't let go the coat!

On a handbasket from Hell
I hold the handle.
Hand basket from Hell
Both sides of the candle.

Read her note yesterday
The memory made me cry.
I dreamt I got back to her
Over time and over miles.

In this shaky kingdom
My first light that was true...
This light... light... light...
I raise a lantern for you!

Handbasket from Hell,
I tip the conductor.
Handbasket from Hell
I should have sued the doctor.

I can hear you calling
From 10,000 light years away.
And I'd be there with you
But I can't afford to stay.

I remember every hour
8 times a day...
This night... night... night...
The flames are cold and blue.

Handbasket from Hell
All across Christmas.
Handbasket from Hell
I wonder if they missed us...

-Will Dockery (words)
Henry Conley (music)
Rocky
2020-05-16 19:07:01 UTC
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Will Dockery wrote on Sat, 16 May 2020 17:18
Post by Will Dockery
"Ozone Stigmata" (Will Dockery & Henry Conley) performed by Jack Snipe
https://soundcloud.com/jacksnipe05/ozone-stigmata-second-draft
"Ozone Stigmata"
On another level
About a thousand years ago-
I tried to hold her
And my heart won't let go.
In countless variations
Just another two old souls.
And this net... net... net...
Don't let go the coat!
On a handbasket from Hell
I hold the handle.
Hand basket from Hell
Both sides of the candle.
Read her note yesterday
The memory made me cry.
I dreamt I got back to her
Over time and over miles.
In this shaky kingdom
My first light that was true...
This light... light... light...
I raise a lantern for you!
Handbasket from Hell,
I tip the conductor.
Handbasket from Hell
I should have sued the doctor.
I can hear you calling
From 10,000 light years away.
And I'd be there with you
But I can't afford to stay.
I remember every hour
8 times a day...
This night... night... night...
The flames are cold and blue.
Handbasket from Hell
All across Christmas.
Handbasket from Hell
I wonder if they missed us...
-Will Dockery (words)
Henry Conley (music)
One of your best, Doc, and easy to understand....
D***@novabbs.i2p
2020-05-17 08:13:28 UTC
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Rocky wrote on Sat, 16 May 2020 19:07
Post by Rocky
Will Dockery wrote on Sat, 16 May 2020 17:18
Post by Will Dockery
"Ozone Stigmata" (Will Dockery & Henry Conley) performed by Jack Snipe
https://soundcloud.com/jacksnipe05/ozone-stigmata-second-draft
"Ozone Stigmata"
On another level
About a thousand years ago-
I tried to hold her
And my heart won't let go.
In countless variations
Just another two old souls.
And this net... net... net...
Don't let go the coat!
On a handbasket from Hell
I hold the handle.
Hand basket from Hell
Both sides of the candle.
Read her note yesterday
The memory made me cry.
I dreamt I got back to her
Over time and over miles.
In this shaky kingdom
My first light that was true...
This light... light... light...
I raise a lantern for you!
Handbasket from Hell,
I tip the conductor.
Handbasket from Hell
I should have sued the doctor.
I can hear you calling
From 10,000 light years away.
And I'd be there with you
But I can't afford to stay.
I remember every hour
8 times a day...
This night... night... night...
The flames are cold and blue.
Handbasket from Hell
All across Christmas.
Handbasket from Hell
I wonder if they missed us...
-Will Dockery (words)
Henry Conley (music)
One of your best, Doc, and easy to understand....
Okay, let's take it from the top, Pendragon, are you still with us?

"Ozone Stigmata" (Will Dockery & Henry Conley) performed by Jack Snipe
https://soundcloud.com/jacksnipe05/ozone-stigmata-second-draft

"Ozone Stigmata"

On another level
About a thousand years ago-

The first two lines set the stage... with me so far?
Michelangelo Scarlotti
2020-05-17 08:42:22 UTC
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Post by D***@novabbs.i2p
Rocky wrote on Sat, 16 May 2020 19:07
Post by Rocky
Will Dockery wrote on Sat, 16 May 2020 17:18
Post by Will Dockery
"Ozone Stigmata" (Will Dockery & Henry Conley) performed by Jack Snipe
https://soundcloud.com/jacksnipe05/ozone-stigmata-second-draft
"Ozone Stigmata"
On another level
About a thousand years ago-
I tried to hold her
And my heart won't let go.
In countless variations
Just another two old souls.
And this net... net... net...
Don't let go the coat!
On a handbasket from Hell
I hold the handle.
Hand basket from Hell
Both sides of the candle.
Read her note yesterday
The memory made me cry.
I dreamt I got back to her
Over time and over miles.
In this shaky kingdom
My first light that was true...
This light... light... light...
I raise a lantern for you!
Handbasket from Hell,
I tip the conductor.
Handbasket from Hell
I should have sued the doctor.
I can hear you calling
From 10,000 light years away.
And I'd be there with you
But I can't afford to stay.
I remember every hour
8 times a day...
This night... night... night...
The flames are cold and blue.
Handbasket from Hell
All across Christmas.
Handbasket from Hell
I wonder if they missed us...
-Will Dockery (words)
Henry Conley (music)
One of your best, Doc, and easy to understand....
Okay, let's take it from the top, Pendragon, are you still with us?
"Ozone Stigmata" (Will Dockery & Henry Conley) performed by Jack Snipe
https://soundcloud.com/jacksnipe05/ozone-stigmata-second-draft
"Ozone Stigmata"
On another level
About a thousand years ago-
The first two lines set the stage... with me so far?
Not at all.

The first line implies that at least one level has already been introduced. None, in fact, has.

The second line dates the poem's action to approximately 1020 AD. This long after the action in the Orpheus myth -- and long before that of the Shadowville mythos (a.k.a., your life). It is, otoh, only a hundred years before the composition of Dante's "Inferno" -- which makes a better fit than the Orpheus myth.

But go on... explain to me what the unspoken level/levels are; and how the Orpheus myth took place a mere 1,000 years ago.
Rocky
2020-05-18 16:59:08 UTC
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Michelangelo Scarlott wrote on Sun, 17 May 2020 08:42
Post by Michelangelo Scarlotti
Post by D***@novabbs.i2p
Rocky wrote on Sat, 16 May 2020 19:07
Post by Rocky
Will Dockery wrote on Sat, 16 May 2020 17:18
Post by Will Dockery
"Ozone Stigmata" (Will Dockery & Henry Conley) performed by Jack Snipe
https://soundcloud.com/jacksnipe05/ozone-stigmata-second-draft
"Ozone Stigmata"
On another level
About a thousand years ago-
I tried to hold her
And my heart won't let go.
In countless variations
Just another two old souls.
And this net... net... net...
Don't let go the coat!
On a handbasket from Hell
I hold the handle.
Hand basket from Hell
Both sides of the candle.
Read her note yesterday
The memory made me cry.
I dreamt I got back to her
Over time and over miles.
In this shaky kingdom
My first light that was true...
This light... light... light...
I raise a lantern for you!
Handbasket from Hell,
I tip the conductor.
Handbasket from Hell
I should have sued the doctor.
I can hear you calling
From 10,000 light years away.
And I'd be there with you
But I can't afford to stay.
I remember every hour
8 times a day...
This night... night... night...
The flames are cold and blue.
Handbasket from Hell
All across Christmas.
Handbasket from Hell
I wonder if they missed us...
-Will Dockery (words)
Henry Conley (music)
One of your best, Doc, and easy to understand....
Okay, let's take it from the top, Pendragon, are you still with us?
"Ozone Stigmata" (Will Dockery & Henry Conley) performed by Jack Snipe
https://soundcloud.com/jacksnipe05/ozone-stigmata-second-draft
"Ozone Stigmata"
On another level
About a thousand years ago-
The first two lines set the stage... with me so far?
The first line implies that at least one level has already been introduced
The first level is a given...

"I think therefore I am...."
Will Dockery
2020-05-25 15:05:32 UTC
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No, you didn't listen very closely. The words are "Hand basket /from/ Hell".
It is a reference to Orpheus and Eurydice
No, Will. Your poem has nothing to do with the Orpheus/Eurydice myth
Getting back to this, you were wrong from the start, Pendragon.

My poem may not have /everything/ to do with the Orpheus/Eurydice myth but it does have /some things/ to do with .the Orpheus/Eurydice myth.
Euridice's Warning
-------------------
What if I descend into a hell so dark
that you can't come down after me,
trailing doctors with their pills.
Even if you beg permission, sweetly
to the sound of strings pulled lightly,
tug the heavy heart of Hades,
you'll still break the rules and look.
But they all will point at you and blame you
for my crimes against myself
while you hold the empty shell
of my manufactured hell.
Loved this one... here's an OB, my take on the Orpheus and Eurydice story, applied to my personal mythology:

https://soundcloud.com/jacksnipe05/ozone-stigmata-second-draft

"Ozone Stigmata" (Will Dockery & Henry Conley) performed by Jack Snipe (all instruments and vocals, except drum machine by Zoom MRS-82). From the upcoming album "Exile in Shadowville".

"My take on the Orpheus and Eurydice story, applied to my personal mythology..."

HTH & HAND.
Z***@novabbs.i2p
2020-05-16 22:11:54 UTC
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Pendragon and Nancy G. listen again, more carefully....

The meaning of the poem has gone right over your heads....
Michael Pendragon
2020-05-16 22:15:06 UTC
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Post by Z***@novabbs.i2p
Pendragon and Nancy G. listen again, more carefully....
The meaning of the poem has gone right over your heads....
Gibberish has no meaning, Stink.
Rocky
2020-05-16 23:04:25 UTC
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Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by Z***@novabbs.i2p
Pendragon and Nancy G. listen again, more carefully....
The meaning of the poem has gone right over your heads....
Gibberish
Bullshit, this song is FAR from gibberish....
Will Dockery
2020-05-17 06:47:03 UTC
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Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by Z***@novabbs.i2p
Pendragon and Nancy G. listen again, more carefully....
The meaning of the poem has gone right over your heads....
Gibberish has no meaning
Okay, if we are going to discuss "Ozone Stigmata" we should do it in the thread for that number, sound good with you, Pendragon?
Michelangelo Scarlotti
2020-05-17 06:53:09 UTC
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Post by Will Dockery
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by Z***@novabbs.i2p
Pendragon and Nancy G. listen again, more carefully....
The meaning of the poem has gone right over your heads....
Gibberish has no meaning
Okay, if we are going to discuss "Ozone Stigmata" we should do it in the thread for that number, sound good with you, Pendragon?
I'm all for confining it to a single thread.
Will Dockery
2020-05-17 07:00:22 UTC
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Post by Michelangelo Scarlotti
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by Z***@novabbs.i2p
Pendragon and Nancy G. listen again, more carefully....
The meaning of the poem has gone right over your heads....
Gibberish has no meaning
Okay, if we are going to discuss "Ozone Stigmata" we should do it in the thread for that number, sound good with you, Pendragon?
I'm all for confining it to a single thread.
Seems like a good idea.

;)
Z***@none.i2p
2020-05-20 19:34:52 UTC
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Michael Pendragon wrote on Sat, 16 May 2020 22:15
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by Z***@novabbs.i2p
Pendragon and Nancy G. listen again, more carefully....
The meaning of the poem has gone right over your heads....
Gibberish has no meaning
You know damned well this poem is far from gibberish,,,,,
Michael Pendragon
2020-05-21 04:25:28 UTC
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Post by Z***@none.i2p
Michael Pendragon wrote on Sat, 16 May 2020 22:15
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by Z***@novabbs.i2p
Pendragon and Nancy G. listen again, more carefully....
The meaning of the poem has gone right over your heads....
Gibberish has no meaning
You know damned well this poem is far from gibberish,,,,,
I was being kind.
Will Dockery
2020-05-21 04:59:59 UTC
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Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by Z***@none.i2p
Michael Pendragon wrote on Sat, 16 May 2020 22:15
Post by Michael Pendragon
Gibberish has no meaning
You know damned well this poem is far from gibberish,,,,,
I was being kind.
It isn't my fault that the poem was apparently too subtle for you, and that it seems to have gone over your head.

;)
Michael Pendragon
2020-05-21 05:09:50 UTC
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Post by Will Dockery
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by Z***@none.i2p
Michael Pendragon wrote on Sat, 16 May 2020 22:15
Post by Michael Pendragon
Gibberish has no meaning
You know damned well this poem is far from gibberish,,,,,
I was being kind.
It isn't my fault that the poem was apparently too subtle for you, and that it seems to have gone over your head.
That's your biggest problem as a writer, Will; your refusal to accept that your failure to express your ideas in intelligible English is your fault. Not only is it your fault, but as a writer, it's your responsibility to *learn* how to express your ideas intelligibly.
Will Dockery
2020-05-21 05:18:49 UTC
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Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Michael Pendragon
I was being kind.
It isn't my fault that the poem was apparently too subtle for you, and that it seems to have gone over your head.
That's your biggest problem as a writer, Will; your refusal to accept
<bullshit snipped>

You called my poem "gibberish".

Of course you know I won't agree with that critique.

;)
Michael Pendragon
2020-05-21 06:10:37 UTC
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Post by Will Dockery
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Michael Pendragon
I was being kind.
It isn't my fault that the poem was apparently too subtle for you, and that it seems to have gone over your head.
That's your biggest problem as a writer, Will; your refusal to accept
<bullshit snipped>
You called my poem "gibberish".
Of course you know I won't agree with that critique.
Are you under the delusion that it's English?
Will Dockery
2020-05-21 15:32:47 UTC
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Post by Michael Pendragon
Are you under the delusion that it's English?
I must be:

"Ozone Stigmata" (Will Dockery & Henry Conley) performed by Jack Snipe
https://soundcloud.com/jacksnipe05/ozone-stigmata-second-draft

"Ozone Stigmata"

On another level
About a thousand years ago-
I tried to hold her
And my heart won't let go.

In countless variations
Just another two old souls.

That's the next lines, as when I began this thread I planned to cover the poem line-by-line.

The only things I might change here is "and" to "but" and perhaps that annoying capital at the start of each line, although hundreds of poems I've read use that same style.

So, yes, I say that this poem is in "English".

;)
n***@yahoo.com
2020-05-21 06:13:43 UTC
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Post by Will Dockery
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Michael Pendragon
I was being kind.
It isn't my fault that the poem was apparently too subtle for you, and that it seems to have gone over your head.
That's your biggest problem as a writer, Will; your refusal to accept
<bullshit snipped>
You called my poem "gibberish".
Of course you know I won't agree with that critique.
;)
You proved his point faster than the speed of light. I think you just technically invented the Warp Drive from Star Trek.
n***@yahoo.com
2020-05-21 06:13:17 UTC
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Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by Z***@none.i2p
Michael Pendragon wrote on Sat, 16 May 2020 22:15
Post by Michael Pendragon
Gibberish has no meaning
You know damned well this poem is far from gibberish,,,,,
I was being kind.
It isn't my fault that the poem was apparently too subtle for you, and that it seems to have gone over your head.
That's your biggest problem as a writer, Will; your refusal to accept that your failure to express your ideas in intelligible English is your fault. Not only is it your fault, but as a writer, it's your responsibility to *learn* how to express your ideas intelligibly.
Actually, Will's biggest problem as a "writer" is that he can't write worth a damn. Then you have his mental problems with narcissism and ego. They certainly don't help.
Rocky
2020-05-21 23:16:13 UTC
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Post by Will Dockery
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by Z***@none.i2p
Michael Pendragon wrote on Sat, 16 May 2020 22:15
Post by Michael Pendragon
Gibberish has no meaning
You know damned well this poem is far from gibberish,,,,,
I was being kind.
It isn't my fault that the poem was apparently too subtle for you, and that it seems to have gone over your head.
;)
Pendragon is very narrow minded when it comes to poetry....
ME
2020-05-21 23:26:17 UTC
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Post by Rocky
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by Z***@none.i2p
Michael Pendragon wrote on Sat, 16 May 2020 22:15
Post by Michael Pendragon
Gibberish has no meaning
You know damned well this poem is far from gibberish,,,,,
I was being kind.
It isn't my fault that the poem was apparently too subtle for you, and that it seems to have gone over your head.
;)
Pendragon is very narrow minded when it comes to poetry....
Zod, please hush.
Let Will revel In the glow!
Karen has also discussed his submission.
Just hush. He doesn’t need your bump right now.
Log it under 3 months.
Rocky
2020-05-21 23:56:50 UTC
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Post by ME
Post by Rocky
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by Z***@none.i2p
Michael Pendragon wrote on Sat, 16 May 2020 22:15
Post by Michael Pendragon
Gibberish has no meaning
You know damned well this poem is far from gibberish,,,,,
I was being kind.
It isn't my fault that the poem was apparently too subtle for you, and that it seems to have gone over your head.
;)
Pendragon is very narrow minded when it comes to poetry....
Zod, please hush.
Let Will revel In the glow!
Karen has also discussed his submission.
Just hush. He doesn’t need your bump right now.
Log it under 3 months.
Say what....?
Zod
2020-05-24 05:41:00 UTC
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Keep it close to the vest....
k***@gmail.com
2020-05-21 16:37:39 UTC
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Post by Z***@none.i2p
Michael Pendragon wrote on Sat, 16 May 2020 22:15
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by Z***@novabbs.i2p
Pendragon and Nancy G. listen again, more carefully....
The meaning of the poem has gone right over your heads....
Gibberish has no meaning
You know damned well this poem is far from gibberish,,,,,
No, Will wrote English and it's not gibberish. Parts of it could use some clarification and it definately could use more verb verbs verbs.
Post by Z***@none.i2p
On another level
About a thousand years ago-
Are you discussing a past life or something that happened decades ago that seemed a thousand years ago?
Post by Z***@none.i2p
I tried to hold her
And my heart won't let go.
I'm not fond of using heart as a symbol of emotion, but this is a prejudice of mine because heart is so overused.
Post by Z***@none.i2p
In countless variations
Just another two old souls.
This really suggests reincarnation, but it needs a verb.
Post by Z***@none.i2p
And this net... net... net...
Don't let go the coat!
What about the net, are you caught, did you slip out?

"Don't let go the coat" seems a non-sequitur to me.

and so forth.
NancyGene
2020-05-21 16:48:57 UTC
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Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Z***@none.i2p
Michael Pendragon wrote on Sat, 16 May 2020 22:15
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by Z***@novabbs.i2p
Pendragon and Nancy G. listen again, more carefully....
The meaning of the poem has gone right over your heads....
Gibberish has no meaning
You know damned well this poem is far from gibberish,,,,,
No, Will wrote English and it's not gibberish. Parts of it could use some clarification and it definately could use more verb verbs verbs.
Post by Z***@none.i2p
On another level
About a thousand years ago-
Are you discussing a past life or something that happened decades ago that seemed a thousand years ago?
Post by Z***@none.i2p
I tried to hold her
And my heart won't let go.
I'm not fond of using heart as a symbol of emotion, but this is a prejudice of mine because heart is so overused.
Post by Z***@none.i2p
In countless variations
Just another two old souls.
This really suggests reincarnation, but it needs a verb.
Post by Z***@none.i2p
And this net... net... net...
Don't let go the coat!
What about the net, are you caught, did you slip out?
"Don't let go the coat" seems a non-sequitur to me.
and so forth.
Will writes to a formula, which doesn't allow for verbs. Our understanding of net-net is that it is the final result, which doesn't make sense in Will's poem.

The "Don't let go the coat" Who reference may have been recognized in 1982 or so, but it is an obscure song reference in 2020. All here but one thought it was just bad grammar, which it is. Sticking a song title into a poem that is supposedly a version of a Greek myth is bizarre and needless.

We don't like heart things either (or moon longings). If a person thinks of himself as being able to write original prose or poems, he should do just that.
Will Dockery
2020-05-21 17:00:14 UTC
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Post by NancyGene
The "Don't let go the coat" Who reference may have been recognized in 1982 or so, but it is an obscure song reference in 2020
I think it goes back earlier than the use by The Who, but there's not much "obscure" about The Who.

;)
k***@gmail.com
2020-05-21 17:37:45 UTC
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Post by Will Dockery
Post by NancyGene
The "Don't let go the coat" Who reference may have been recognized in 1982 or so, but it is an obscure song reference in 2020
I think it goes back earlier than the use by The Who, but there's not much "obscure" about The Who.
;)
I am not familiar with this song.
NancyGene
2020-05-21 17:46:33 UTC
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Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Will Dockery
Post by NancyGene
The "Don't let go the coat" Who reference may have been recognized in 1982 or so, but it is an obscure song reference in 2020
I think it goes back earlier than the use by The Who, but there's not much "obscure" about The Who.
;)
I am not familiar with this song.
We never heard of it either and evidently Michael doesn't know it, as he didn't get the reference. Maybe if it was a poem about The Who, people would know to look it up. As it is placed in the poem, it is an anachronism.
Will Dockery
2020-05-21 18:45:17 UTC
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Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Will Dockery
Post by NancyGene
The "Don't let go the coat" Who reference may have been recognized in 1982 or so, but it is an obscure song reference in 2020
I think it goes back earlier than the use by The Who, but there's not much "obscure" about The Who.
;)
I am not familiar with this song.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_Let_Go_the_Coat

"...the song could refer to Pete Townshend's parents, who were the ones who would pick him up when Pete Townshend descended into drugs and alcohol. But regardless, the song strikes themes of spiritual torment, fear of abandonment and the need to keep faith, beginning with the lines:

"I can't be held responsible for blown behavior
I've lost all contact with my only savior"

Basically, hang on, keep faith alive.
k***@gmail.com
2020-05-21 19:49:30 UTC
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Post by Will Dockery
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Will Dockery
Post by NancyGene
The "Don't let go the coat" Who reference may have been recognized in 1982 or so, but it is an obscure song reference in 2020
I think it goes back earlier than the use by The Who, but there's not much "obscure" about The Who.
;)
I am not familiar with this song.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_Let_Go_the_Coat
"I can't be held responsible for blown behavior
I've lost all contact with my only savior"
Basically, hang on, keep faith alive.
This is fine if your audience is familiar with the who song about rescue and it sort of relates to the net. The lyrics may work well with music.

There are stanzas that have verbs and make sense
Post by Will Dockery
Read her note yesterday (I'd put a ; here)
The memory made me cry.
I dreamt I got back to her
Over time and over miles.
I can hear you calling
From 10,000 light years away.
And I'd be there with you
But I can't afford to stay.
But why can't you afford to stay? Can even afford to go? However there are complete sentences.

I remember every hour
8 times a day...
This night... night... night...
The flames are cold and blue.

This ok.
Post by Will Dockery
Handbasket from Hell,
I tip<ped?> the conductor.
Handbasket from Hell
I should have sued the doctor.
The last line is a non-sequitur. Why should you have sued the doctor?
I like the conductor, but where the train come in? What was in the basket?

There is much that is interesting, but it doesn't mesh together for me.
Will Dockery
2020-05-22 18:34:32 UTC
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Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Will Dockery
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Will Dockery
Post by NancyGene
The "Don't let go the coat" Who reference may have been recognized in 1982 or so, but it is an obscure song reference in 2020
I think it goes back earlier than the use by The Who, but there's not much "obscure" about The Who.
;)
I am not familiar with this song.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_Let_Go_the_Coat
"I can't be held responsible for blown behavior
I've lost all contact with my only savior"
Basically, hang on, keep faith alive.
This is fine if your audience is familiar with the who song about rescue and it sort of relates to the net. The lyrics may work well with music.
There are stanzas that have verbs and make sense
Post by Will Dockery
Read her note yesterday (I'd put a ; here)
The memory made me cry.
I dreamt I got back to her
Over time and over miles.
I can hear you calling
From 10,000 light years away.
And I'd be there with you
But I can't afford to stay.
But why can't you afford to stay? Can even afford to go? However there are complete sentences.
I remember every hour
8 times a day...
This night... night... night...
The flames are cold and blue.
This ok.
Post by Will Dockery
Handbasket from Hell,
I tip<ped?> the conductor.
Handbasket from Hell
I should have sued the doctor.
The last line is a non-sequitur. Why should you have sued the doctor?
I like the conductor, but where the train come in? What was in the basket?
There is much that is interesting, but it doesn't mesh together for me.
Thanks, Karen, sorry about the lack of meshing.

;)
k***@gmail.com
2020-05-22 20:45:58 UTC
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Post by Will Dockery
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Will Dockery
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Will Dockery
Post by NancyGene
The "Don't let go the coat" Who reference may have been recognized in 1982 or so, but it is an obscure song reference in 2020
I think it goes back earlier than the use by The Who, but there's not much "obscure" about The Who.
;)
I am not familiar with this song.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_Let_Go_the_Coat
"I can't be held responsible for blown behavior
I've lost all contact with my only savior"
Basically, hang on, keep faith alive.
This is fine if your audience is familiar with the who song about rescue and it sort of relates to the net. The lyrics may work well with music.
There are stanzas that have verbs and make sense
Post by Will Dockery
Read her note yesterday (I'd put a ; here)
The memory made me cry.
I dreamt I got back to her
Over time and over miles.
I can hear you calling
From 10,000 light years away.
And I'd be there with you
But I can't afford to stay.
But why can't you afford to stay? Can even afford to go? However there are complete sentences.
I remember every hour
8 times a day...
This night... night... night...
The flames are cold and blue.
This ok.
Post by Will Dockery
Handbasket from Hell,
I tip<ped?> the conductor.
Handbasket from Hell
I should have sued the doctor.
The last line is a non-sequitur. Why should you have sued the doctor?
I like the conductor, but where the train come in? What was in the basket?
There is much that is interesting, but it doesn't mesh together for me.
Thanks, Karen, sorry about the lack of meshing.
;)
Just my opinion.

Have a nice evening.
Will Dockery
2020-05-22 21:30:13 UTC
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Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Will Dockery
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Will Dockery
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Will Dockery
Post by NancyGene
The "Don't let go the coat" Who reference may have been recognized in 1982 or so, but it is an obscure song reference in 2020
I think it goes back earlier than the use by The Who, but there's not much "obscure" about The Who.
;)
I am not familiar with this song.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_Let_Go_the_Coat
"I can't be held responsible for blown behavior
I've lost all contact with my only savior"
Basically, hang on, keep faith alive.
This is fine if your audience is familiar with the who song about rescue and it sort of relates to the net. The lyrics may work well with music.
There are stanzas that have verbs and make sense
Post by Will Dockery
Read her note yesterday (I'd put a ; here)
The memory made me cry.
I dreamt I got back to her
Over time and over miles.
I can hear you calling
From 10,000 light years away.
And I'd be there with you
But I can't afford to stay.
But why can't you afford to stay? Can even afford to go? However there are complete sentences.
I remember every hour
8 times a day...
This night... night... night...
The flames are cold and blue.
This ok.
Post by Will Dockery
Handbasket from Hell,
I tip<ped?> the conductor.
Handbasket from Hell
I should have sued the doctor.
The last line is a non-sequitur. Why should you have sued the doctor?
I like the conductor, but where the train come in? What was in the basket?
There is much that is interesting, but it doesn't mesh together for me.
Thanks, Karen, sorry about the lack of meshing.
;)
Just my opinion.
Have a nice evening.
Yes, I understand, the verses do approach the story in obscure ways.

Later poem/songs such as Twilight Girl told more straight forward version of the same events.
Rocky
2020-05-26 00:18:18 UTC
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Post by Will Dockery
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Will Dockery
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Will Dockery
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Will Dockery
Post by NancyGene
The "Don't let go the coat" Who reference may have been recognized in 1982 or so, but it is an obscure song reference in 2020
I think it goes back earlier than the use by The Who, but there's not much "obscure" about The Who.
;)
I am not familiar with this song.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_Let_Go_the_Coat
"I can't be held responsible for blown behavior
I've lost all contact with my only savior"
Basically, hang on, keep faith alive.
This is fine if your audience is familiar with the who song about rescue and it sort of relates to the net. The lyrics may work well with music.
There are stanzas that have verbs and make sense
Post by Will Dockery
Read her note yesterday (I'd put a ; here)
The memory made me cry.
I dreamt I got back to her
Over time and over miles.
I can hear you calling
From 10,000 light years away.
And I'd be there with you
But I can't afford to stay.
But why can't you afford to stay? Can even afford to go? However there are complete sentences.
I remember every hour
8 times a day...
This night... night... night...
The flames are cold and blue.
This ok.
Post by Will Dockery
Handbasket from Hell,
I tip<ped?> the conductor.
Handbasket from Hell
I should have sued the doctor.
The last line is a non-sequitur. Why should you have sued the doctor?
I like the conductor, but where the train come in? What was in the basket?
There is much that is interesting, but it doesn't mesh together for me.
Thanks, Karen, sorry about the lack of meshing.
;)
Just my opinion.
Have a nice evening.
Yes, I understand, the verses do approach the story in obscure ways.
Later poem/songs such as Twilight Girl told more straight forward version of the same events.
It all forms on epic poetry cycle.....
Michael Pendragon
2020-05-21 18:39:52 UTC
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Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Z***@none.i2p
Michael Pendragon wrote on Sat, 16 May 2020 22:15
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by Z***@novabbs.i2p
Pendragon and Nancy G. listen again, more carefully....
The meaning of the poem has gone right over your heads....
Gibberish has no meaning
You know damned well this poem is far from gibberish,,,,,
No, Will wrote English and it's not gibberish. Parts of it could use some clarification and it definately could use more verb verbs verbs.
Will writes in strung together sentence fragments. Occasionally he lucks out and one of his conjoined fragments turns out to be (or, at least, to approximate) a sentence.

Will writes in strung together sentence fragments because Will learned how to write by listening to the lyrics of rock songs. This form of writing is, apparently, acceptable in rock lyrics -- but rock lyrics and poetry are two very different art forms with two very different sets of rules.

The lack of verbs in Will's poetry is only one its problems; it often lacks nouns as well. AFAICS his first two lines lack both. This is because they are "snappy" fragments appended to the actual sentence in lines three and four. The fact that the fragments don't make any sense when connected both to each other and the sentence (gibberish) doesn't matter to Will, because grammar doesn't matter to Will... because Will never learned even the foundations of grammar in school or from an adult life spent reading comic books.

The results are, invariably, semi-coherent rock song lyrics wherein the singer is trying to recall, and make sense of, an episode from his past. The fragments represent the thought fragments that well up in the singer's memory as he attempts to piece the meaning of this episode from his past together. Will combines "stream of consciousness" and Imagist* devices in his lyric to bring this off.

*I doubt that Will understands what either of these devices are, although he does have a vague notion of each. In typical autodidact fashion, Will latches onto words and concepts he stumbles across in comic books, Star Trek episodes, and exchanges in AAPC without fully comprehending them.

Were Will better educated, his "Fragmentist" style might work. As is, it's largely unintelligible... gibberish.

Did anyone (other than Stink) pick up on the intended Orpheus parallel? Does anyone see where he is transporting a lost lover out of Hell (in a handbasket or otherwise)?

Even bearing Will's explanation in mind, I still read the actual poem as being about an old man ruminating on a failed love affair, the emotional pain that it caused him, and his self-destructive attempt to escape from it through years of alcohol and drug abuse.
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Z***@none.i2p
On another level
About a thousand years ago-
Are you discussing a past life or something that happened decades ago that seemed a thousand years ago?
Post by Z***@none.i2p
I tried to hold her
And my heart won't let go.
I'm not fond of using heart as a symbol of emotion, but this is a prejudice of mine because heart is so overused.
Post by Z***@none.i2p
In countless variations
Just another two old souls.
This really suggests reincarnation, but it needs a verb.
Post by Z***@none.i2p
And this net... net... net...
Don't let go the coat!
What about the net, are you caught, did you slip out?
"Don't let go the coat" seems a non-sequitur to me.
and so forth.
I didn't get the Who reference, either... but then I'm sure no one expected me to.

As in all of Will's poetry, each fragment is a separate entity that does not really correspond to the fragments with which it is linked (or, as you've noted, his poetry comprises a series of non-sequiturs). The net... net... net... represents a thought/memory that forced its way into his consciousness as he attempts to piece the episode together. Whether it's referring to a safety net or to the speaker's feeling caught (or both) is of no concern. The image of two old souls reminds Will of their failed relationship, which in turn conjures up the image of the net, which in turn conjures up the memory of the Who song. In short, it's a simple process word association wherein the "logic" isn't necessarily explained explained to the reader.
Zod
2020-05-24 18:01:00 UTC
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Ktell is correct, heart is overused....

But what to replace it with.?
Zod
2020-05-23 22:08:00 UTC
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Michael Pendragon wrote on Sun, 17 May 2020 05:08
Doc applied the legend to his Shadowville Mythos...
No, he really didn't.
-----------------------------------------------------
https://soundcloud.com/jacksnipe05/ozone-stigmata-second-draft
"Ozone Stigmata" (Will Dockery & Henry Conley) performed by Jack Snipe (all instruments and vocals, except drum machine by Zoom MRS-82). From the upcoming album "Exile in Shadowville".
Unfortunately, your claiming that it was based on the Greek myth doesn't mean that it actually was.
Explain how the narrative of your poem corresponds to that of the Orpheus-Eurydice myth.
Well, true, my poem relates more to my personal mythology than the Orpheus-Eurydice archetypes tat inspired it.
Good. We're making progress. In what way did the Orpheus-Eurydice archetypes inspire it?
Evem I know the answer to that, Pendragon..... think about it.......
Really? Point out where Will's poem designates a female soul in Hell
That is what the poem is based on.....
Michael Pendragon
2020-05-24 04:36:00 UTC
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Post by Zod
Michael Pendragon wrote on Sun, 17 May 2020 05:08
Doc applied the legend to his Shadowville Mythos...
No, he really didn't.
-----------------------------------------------------
https://soundcloud.com/jacksnipe05/ozone-stigmata-second-draft
"Ozone Stigmata" (Will Dockery & Henry Conley) performed by Jack Snipe (all instruments and vocals, except drum machine by Zoom MRS-82). From the upcoming album "Exile in Shadowville".
Unfortunately, your claiming that it was based on the Greek myth doesn't mean that it actually was.
Explain how the narrative of your poem corresponds to that of the Orpheus-Eurydice myth.
Well, true, my poem relates more to my personal mythology than the Orpheus-Eurydice archetypes tat inspired it.
Good. We're making progress. In what way did the Orpheus-Eurydice archetypes inspire it?
Evem I know the answer to that, Pendragon..... think about it.......
Really? Point out where Will's poem designates a female soul in Hell
That is what the poem is based on.....
Really? And yet there's nothing in the text of the poem that actually relates it to the Orpheus/Eurydice myth?

I suggest you pay another call on Dr. Schwimmer and ask him to explain to you what "based on" means.
Will Dockery
2020-05-27 04:47:35 UTC
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Post by Michael Pendragon
And yet there's nothing in the text of the poem that actually relates it to the Orpheus/Eurydice myth?
Post by Will Dockery
https://soundcloud.com/jacksnipe05/ozone-stigmata-second-draft
"Ozone Stigmata" (Will Dockery & Henry Conley) performed by Jack Snipe (all instruments and vocals, except drum machine by Zoom MRS-82). From the upcoming album "Exile in Shadowville".
HTH & HAND.
Z***@novabbs.i2p
2020-05-16 22:26:15 UTC
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Doc applied the legend to his own Shadowville Mythos....!
ME
2020-05-16 22:31:26 UTC
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Post by Z***@novabbs.i2p
Doc applied the legend to his own Shadowville Mythos....!
He did what.....?
Rocky
2020-05-16 23:03:44 UTC
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Post by ME
Post by Z***@novabbs.i2p
Doc applied the legend to his own Shadowville Mythos....!
He did what.....?
You really are confused, aren't you...?
Dental River
2020-05-16 23:12:50 UTC
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Post by Z***@novabbs.i2p
Doc applied the legend to his own Shadowville Mythos....!
Doc applied eye shadow to you and sent you into the bars.
ME
2020-05-16 23:16:22 UTC
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Post by Dental River
Post by Z***@novabbs.i2p
Doc applied the legend to his own Shadowville Mythos....!
Doc applied eye shadow to you and sent you into the bars.
Has this happened since the black shoe polish debacle?
Rocky
2020-05-16 23:20:06 UTC
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Post by ME
Post by Dental River
Post by Z***@novabbs.i2p
Doc applied the legend to his own Shadowville Mythos....!
Doc applied eye shadow to you and sent you into the bars.
Has this happened since the black shoe polish debacle?
True, this is ain't no Mudd Club, no CGGB's....

This ain't no fooling around....

Ha ha ha...
Dental River
2020-05-16 23:24:25 UTC
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Post by ME
Post by Dental River
Post by Z***@novabbs.i2p
Doc applied the legend to his own Shadowville Mythos....!
Doc applied eye shadow to you and sent you into the bars.
Has this happened since the black shoe polish debacle?
Not since Zod was a younger man. He was always like one of those unfortunate lab rabbits used to test makeup, everyone smeared their unknown substances into his eyes, swabbed it on his skin, etc.
NancyGene
2020-05-16 23:36:51 UTC
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Post by Dental River
Post by ME
Post by Dental River
Post by Z***@novabbs.i2p
Doc applied the legend to his own Shadowville Mythos....!
Doc applied eye shadow to you and sent you into the bars.
Has this happened since the black shoe polish debacle?
Not since Zod was a younger man. He was always like one of those unfortunate lab rabbits used to test makeup, everyone smeared their unknown substances into his eyes, swabbed it on his skin, etc.
So that's how companies could put "not tested on animals" on their labels. The products were actually tested on George Sulzbach, and now we see the discouraging results. Isn't there a ranch somewhere for retired lab monkeys, mice and dummies where he could roam free? We assume that they neutered him?
k***@gmail.com
2020-05-17 16:49:50 UTC
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Post by NancyGene
Post by Dental River
Post by ME
Post by Dental River
Post by Z***@novabbs.i2p
Doc applied the legend to his own Shadowville Mythos....!
Doc applied eye shadow to you and sent you into the bars.
Has this happened since the black shoe polish debacle?
Not since Zod was a younger man. He was always like one of those unfortunate lab rabbits used to test makeup, everyone smeared their unknown substances into his eyes, swabbed it on his skin, etc.
So that's how companies could put "not tested on animals" on their labels. The products were actually tested on George Sulzbach, and now we see the discouraging results. Isn't there a ranch somewhere for retired lab monkeys, mice and dummies where he could roam free? We assume that they neutered him?
I know this makes for a joke, but human skin cell cultures are are usually used for cosmetics irritation testing today partly because it's cheaper than rabbits:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20732078
Z***@none.i2p
2020-05-18 22:50:26 UTC
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ME[8
Post by ME
Post by Dental River
Post by Z***@novabbs.i2p
Doc applied the legend to his own Shadowville Mythos....!
Doc applied eye shadow to you and sent you into the bars.
Has this happened since the black shoe polish debacle?
Your obsession with me is noted.....
ME
2020-05-18 23:02:29 UTC
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Post by Z***@none.i2p
ME[8
Post by ME
Post by Dental River
Post by Z***@novabbs.i2p
Doc applied the legend to his own Shadowville Mythos....!
Doc applied eye shadow to you and sent you into the bars.
Has this happened since the black shoe polish debacle?
Your obsession with me is noted.....
Ha Ha Ha bum, you’re bullshit has been exposed, again.
And no one is obsessed with you.
But we’ll gladly point out your lies and misrepresentations when need be.
Will Dockery
2020-05-27 23:38:02 UTC
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Post by ME
Post by Dental River
Post by Z***@novabbs.i2p
Doc applied the legend to his own Shadowville Mythos....!
Doc applied eye shadow to you and sent you into the bars.
Has this happened since the black shoe polish debacle?
Fake news, "Me".

;)

Rocky
2020-05-16 23:16:44 UTC
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Post by Dental River
Post by Z***@novabbs.i2p
Doc applied the legend to his own Shadowville Mythos....!
Doc applied eye shadow to you and sent you into the bars.
Good old Dental River, always there for some comic relief...

Ha ha ha...
m***@yahoo.com
2020-05-17 18:04:12 UTC
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Post by Z***@novabbs.i2p
Doc applied the legend to his own Shadowville Mythos....!
Dreckery has about as much "mythos" as Harambe.
Z***@novabbs.i2p
2020-05-16 23:31:51 UTC
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Post by Dental River
Post by ME
Post by Dental River
Post by Z***@novabbs.i2p
Doc applied the legend to his own Shadowville Mythos....!
Doc applied eye shadow to you and sent you into the bars.
Has this happened since the black shoe polish debacle?
Not since Zod was a younger man. He was always like one of those unfortunate lab rabbits used to test makeup, everyone smeared their unknown substances into his eyes, swabbed it on his skin, etc.
Barry, our own yellow bellied journalist....

Ha ha ha...
Z***@novabbs.i2p
2020-05-16 23:40:40 UTC
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Nancy G. you are an admitted impostor troll.... your opinion is worthless here....
Z***@novabbs.i2p
2020-05-17 00:02:21 UTC
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Will Dockery wrote on Sat, 16 May 2020 17:18
Post by Will Dockery
"Ozone Stigmata" (Will Dockery & Henry Conley) performed by Jack Snipe
https://soundcloud.com/jacksnipe05/ozone-stigmata-second-draft
"Ozone Stigmata"
On another level
About a thousand years ago-
I tried to hold her
And my heart won't let go.
In countless variations
Just another two old souls.
And this net... net... net...
Don't let go the coat!
On a handbasket from Hell
I hold the handle.
Hand basket from Hell
Both sides of the candle.
Read her note yesterday
The memory made me cry.
I dreamt I got back to her
Over time and over miles.
In this shaky kingdom
My first light that was true...
This light... light... light...
I raise a lantern for you!
Handbasket from Hell,
I tip the conductor.
Handbasket from Hell
I should have sued the doctor.
I can hear you calling
From 10,000 light years away.
And I'd be there with you
But I can't afford to stay.
I remember every hour
8 times a day...
This night... night... night...
The flames are cold and blue.
Handbasket from Hell
All across Christmas.
Handbasket from Hell
I wonder if they missed us...
-Will Dockery (words)
Henry Conley (music)
Again, excellent work, Doc....
D***@novabbs.i2p
2020-05-17 08:49:25 UTC
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Post by Michelangelo Scarlotti
Post by D***@novabbs.i2p
Rocky wrote on Sat, 16 May 2020 19:07
Post by Rocky
Will Dockery wrote on Sat, 16 May 2020 17:18
Post by Will Dockery
"Ozone Stigmata" (Will Dockery & Henry Conley) performed by Jack Snipe
https://soundcloud.com/jacksnipe05/ozone-stigmata-second-draft
"Ozone Stigmata"
On another level
About a thousand years ago-
I tried to hold her
And my heart won't let go.
In countless variations
Just another two old souls.
And this net... net... net...
Don't let go the coat!
On a handbasket from Hell
I hold the handle.
Hand basket from Hell
Both sides of the candle.
Read her note yesterday
The memory made me cry.
I dreamt I got back to her
Over time and over miles.
In this shaky kingdom
My first light that was true...
This light... light... light...
I raise a lantern for you!
Handbasket from Hell,
I tip the conductor.
Handbasket from Hell
I should have sued the doctor.
I can hear you calling
From 10,000 light years away.
And I'd be there with you
But I can't afford to stay.
I remember every hour
8 times a day...
This night... night... night...
The flames are cold and blue.
Handbasket from Hell
All across Christmas.
Handbasket from Hell
I wonder if they missed us...
-Will Dockery (words)
Henry Conley (music)
One of your best, Doc, and easy to understand....
Okay, let's take it from the top, Pendragon, are you still with us?
"Ozone Stigmata" (Will Dockery & Henry Conley) performed by Jack Snipe
https://soundcloud.com/jacksnipe05/ozone-stigmata-second-draft
"Ozone Stigmata"
On another level
About a thousand years ago-
The first two lines set the stage... with me so far?
Not at all.
The first line implies that at least one level has already been introduced. None, in fact, has.
The second line dates the poem's action to approximately 1020 AD. This long after the action in the Orpheus myth -- and long before that of the Shadowville mythos (a.k.a., your life). It is, otoh, only a hundred years before the composition of Dante's "Inferno" -- which makes a better fit than the Orpheus myth.
But go on... explain to me what the unspoken level/levels are; and how the Orpheus myth took place a mere 1,000 years ago.
"On another level" just means what it says, and 1000 years seems far enough away to be "another level".
Michelangelo Scarlotti
2020-05-17 09:14:38 UTC
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Post by D***@novabbs.i2p
Post by Michelangelo Scarlotti
Post by D***@novabbs.i2p
Rocky wrote on Sat, 16 May 2020 19:07
Post by Rocky
Will Dockery wrote on Sat, 16 May 2020 17:18
Post by Will Dockery
"Ozone Stigmata" (Will Dockery & Henry Conley) performed by Jack Snipe
https://soundcloud.com/jacksnipe05/ozone-stigmata-second-draft
"Ozone Stigmata"
On another level
About a thousand years ago-
I tried to hold her
And my heart won't let go.
In countless variations
Just another two old souls.
And this net... net... net...
Don't let go the coat!
On a handbasket from Hell
I hold the handle.
Hand basket from Hell
Both sides of the candle.
Read her note yesterday
The memory made me cry.
I dreamt I got back to her
Over time and over miles.
In this shaky kingdom
My first light that was true...
This light... light... light...
I raise a lantern for you!
Handbasket from Hell,
I tip the conductor.
Handbasket from Hell
I should have sued the doctor.
I can hear you calling
From 10,000 light years away.
And I'd be there with you
But I can't afford to stay.
I remember every hour
8 times a day...
This night... night... night...
The flames are cold and blue.
Handbasket from Hell
All across Christmas.
Handbasket from Hell
I wonder if they missed us...
-Will Dockery (words)
Henry Conley (music)
One of your best, Doc, and easy to understand....
Okay, let's take it from the top, Pendragon, are you still with us?
"Ozone Stigmata" (Will Dockery & Henry Conley) performed by Jack Snipe
https://soundcloud.com/jacksnipe05/ozone-stigmata-second-draft
"Ozone Stigmata"
On another level
About a thousand years ago-
The first two lines set the stage... with me so far?
Not at all.
The first line implies that at least one level has already been introduced. None, in fact, has.
The second line dates the poem's action to approximately 1020 AD. This long after the action in the Orpheus myth -- and long before that of the Shadowville mythos (a.k.a., your life). It is, otoh, only a hundred years before the composition of Dante's "Inferno" -- which makes a better fit than the Orpheus myth.
But go on... explain to me what the unspoken level/levels are; and how the Orpheus myth took place a mere 1,000 years ago.
"On another level" just means what it says, and 1000 years seems far enough away to be "another level".
It says nothing (see above). It's like saying "on the one hand, we have this and on the other hand we have that." Without the "one hand" for comparison, the "other hand" is meaningless.

And while 1,000 years was a long time ago, it has no relation whatsoever to the Orpheus myth.

If you mean to say that the unidentified first level is the present and the "other" level is 1,000 years ago, it neither comes across in your poem nor connects your poem in any way, shape or form with Greek mythology.
Will Dockery
2020-05-17 16:39:47 UTC
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Post by Michelangelo Scarlotti
Post by D***@novabbs.i2p
Post by Michelangelo Scarlotti
Post by D***@novabbs.i2p
Post by Rocky
Post by Will Dockery
"Ozone Stigmata" (Will Dockery & Henry Conley) performed by Jack Snipe
https://soundcloud.com/jacksnipe05/ozone-stigmata-second-draft
"Ozone Stigmata"
On another level
About a thousand years ago-
I tried to hold her
And my heart won't let go.
In countless variations
Just another two old souls.
And this net... net... net...
Don't let go the coat!
On a handbasket from Hell
I hold the handle.
Hand basket from Hell
Both sides of the candle.
Read her note yesterday
The memory made me cry.
I dreamt I got back to her
Over time and over miles.
In this shaky kingdom
My first light that was true...
This light... light... light...
I raise a lantern for you!
Handbasket from Hell,
I tip the conductor.
Handbasket from Hell
I should have sued the doctor.
I can hear you calling
From 10,000 light years away.
And I'd be there with you
But I can't afford to stay.
I remember every hour
8 times a day...
This night... night... night...
The flames are cold and blue.
Handbasket from Hell
All across Christmas.
Handbasket from Hell
I wonder if they missed us...
-Will Dockery (words)
Henry Conley (music)
One of your best, Doc, and easy to understand....
Okay, let's take it from the top, Pendragon, are you still with us?
"Ozone Stigmata" (Will Dockery & Henry Conley) performed by Jack Snipe
https://soundcloud.com/jacksnipe05/ozone-stigmata-second-draft
"Ozone Stigmata"
On another level
About a thousand years ago-
The first two lines set the stage... with me so far?
Not at all.
The first line implies that at least one level has already been introduced. None, in fact, has.
The second line dates the poem's action to approximately 1020 AD. This long after the action in the Orpheus myth -- and long before that of the Shadowville mythos (a.k.a., your life). It is, otoh, only a hundred years before the composition of Dante's "Inferno" -- which makes a better fit than the Orpheus myth.
But go on... explain to me what the unspoken level/levels are; and how the Orpheus myth took place a mere 1,000 years ago.
"On another level" just means what it says, and 1000 years seems far enough away to be "another level".
It says nothing (see above). It's like saying "on the one hand, we have this and on the other hand we have that." Without the "one hand" for comparison, the "other hand" is meaningless.
And while 1,000 years was a long time ago, it has no relation whatsoever to the Orpheus myth.
If you mean to say that the unidentified first level is the present and the "other" level is 1,000 years ago, it neither comes across in your poem nor connects your poem in any way, shape or form with Greek mythology.
Well, the poem is really about me and someone I know who died, and I bring her back out of Hell, or try to. The Orpheus myth influenced my poem.

(I had over posted my Google Groups limit late last night, but since this is still up n ready, might as well hit send.)
Rocky
2020-05-18 00:04:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by D***@novabbs.i2p
Post by Michelangelo Scarlotti
Post by D***@novabbs.i2p
Post by Michelangelo Scarlotti
Post by D***@novabbs.i2p
Post by Rocky
Post by Will Dockery
"Ozone Stigmata" (Will Dockery & Henry Conley) performed by Jack Snipe
https://soundcloud.com/jacksnipe05/ozone-stigmata-second-draft
"Ozone Stigmata"
On another level
About a thousand years ago-
I tried to hold her
And my heart won't let go.
In countless variations
Just another two old souls.
And this net... net... net...
Don't let go the coat!
On a handbasket from Hell
I hold the handle.
Hand basket from Hell
Both sides of the candle.
Read her note yesterday
The memory made me cry.
I dreamt I got back to her
Over time and over miles.
In this shaky kingdom
My first light that was true...
This light... light... light...
I raise a lantern for you!
Handbasket from Hell,
I tip the conductor.
Handbasket from Hell
I should have sued the doctor.
I can hear you calling
From 10,000 light years away.
And I'd be there with you
But I can't afford to stay.
I remember every hour
8 times a day...
This night... night... night...
The flames are cold and blue.
Handbasket from Hell
All across Christmas.
Handbasket from Hell
I wonder if they missed us...
-Will Dockery (words)
Henry Conley (music)
One of your best, Doc, and easy to understand....
Okay, let's take it from the top, Pendragon, are you still with us?
"Ozone Stigmata" (Will Dockery & Henry Conley) performed by Jack Snipe
https://soundcloud.com/jacksnipe05/ozone-stigmata-second-draft
"Ozone Stigmata"
On another level
About a thousand years ago-
The first two lines set the stage... with me so far?
Not at all.
The first line implies that at least one level has already been introduced. None, in fact, has.
The second line dates the poem's action to approximately 1020 AD. This long after the action in the Orpheus myth -- and long before that of the Shadowville mythos (a.k.a., your life). It is, otoh, only a hundred years before the composition of Dante's "Inferno" -- which makes a better fit than the Orpheus myth.
But go on... explain to me what the unspoken level/levels are; and how the Orpheus myth took place a mere 1,000 years ago.
"On another level" just means what it says, and 1000 years seems far enough away to be "another level".
It says nothing (see above). It's like saying "on the one hand, we have this and on the other hand we have that." Without the "one hand" for comparison, the "other hand" is meaningless.
And while 1,000 years was a long time ago, it has no relation whatsoever to the Orpheus myth.
If you mean to say that the unidentified first level is the present and the "other" level is 1,000 years ago, it neither comes across in your poem nor connects your poem in any way, shape or form with Greek mythology.
Well, the poem is really about me and someone I know who died, and I bring her back out of Hell, or try to. The Orpheus myth influenced my poem.
(I had over posted my Google Groups limit late last night, but since this is still up n ready, might as well hit send.)
Well put, Doc...
Will Dockery
2020-05-17 19:04:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Michelangelo Scarlotti
Post by D***@novabbs.i2p
Post by Michelangelo Scarlotti
Post by D***@novabbs.i2p
Post by Rocky
Post by Will Dockery
"Ozone Stigmata" (Will Dockery & Henry Conley) performed by Jack Snipe
https://soundcloud.com/jacksnipe05/ozone-stigmata-second-draft
"Ozone Stigmata"
On another level
About a thousand years ago-
I tried to hold her
And my heart won't let go.
In countless variations
Just another two old souls.
And this net... net... net...
Don't let go the coat!
On a handbasket from Hell
I hold the handle.
Hand basket from Hell
Both sides of the candle.
Read her note yesterday
The memory made me cry.
I dreamt I got back to her
Over time and over miles.
In this shaky kingdom
My first light that was true...
This light... light... light...
I raise a lantern for you!
Handbasket from Hell,
I tip the conductor.
Handbasket from Hell
I should have sued the doctor.
I can hear you calling
From 10,000 light years away.
And I'd be there with you
But I can't afford to stay.
I remember every hour
8 times a day...
This night... night... night...
The flames are cold and blue.
Handbasket from Hell
All across Christmas.
Handbasket from Hell
I wonder if they missed us...
-Will Dockery (words)
Henry Conley (music)
One of your best, Doc, and easy to understand....
Okay, let's take it from the top, Pendragon, are you still with us?
"Ozone Stigmata" (Will Dockery & Henry Conley) performed by Jack Snipe
https://soundcloud.com/jacksnipe05/ozone-stigmata-second-draft
"Ozone Stigmata"
On another level
About a thousand years ago-
The first two lines set the stage... with me so far?
Not at all.
The first line implies that at least one level has already been introduced. None, in fact, has.
The second line dates the poem's action to approximately 1020 AD. This long after the action in the Orpheus myth -- and long before that of the Shadowville mythos (a.k.a., your life). It is, otoh, only a hundred years before the composition of Dante's "Inferno" -- which makes a better fit than the Orpheus myth.
But go on... explain to me what the unspoken level/levels are; and how the Orpheus myth took place a mere 1,000 years ago.
"On another level" just means what it says, and 1000 years seems far enough away to be "another level".
It says nothing (see above). It's like saying "on the one hand, we have this and on the other hand we have that." Without the "one hand" for comparison, the "other hand" is meaningless.
And while 1,000 years was a long time ago, it has no relation whatsoever to the Orpheus myth.
If you mean to say that the unidentified first level is the present and the "other" level is 1,000 years ago, it neither comes across in your poem nor connects your poem in any way, shape or form with Greek mythology.
Well, the poem is really about me and someone I know who died, and I bring her back out of Hell, or try to. The Orpheus myth influenced my poem.

The line "Handbasket /from/ Hell", in nutshell.

;)
Michael Pendragon
2020-05-18 02:37:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by D***@novabbs.i2p
Post by Michelangelo Scarlotti
Post by D***@novabbs.i2p
Post by Michelangelo Scarlotti
Post by D***@novabbs.i2p
Post by Rocky
Post by Will Dockery
"Ozone Stigmata" (Will Dockery & Henry Conley) performed by Jack Snipe
https://soundcloud.com/jacksnipe05/ozone-stigmata-second-draft
"Ozone Stigmata"
On another level
About a thousand years ago-
I tried to hold her
And my heart won't let go.
In countless variations
Just another two old souls.
And this net... net... net...
Don't let go the coat!
On a handbasket from Hell
I hold the handle.
Hand basket from Hell
Both sides of the candle.
Read her note yesterday
The memory made me cry.
I dreamt I got back to her
Over time and over miles.
In this shaky kingdom
My first light that was true...
This light... light... light...
I raise a lantern for you!
Handbasket from Hell,
I tip the conductor.
Handbasket from Hell
I should have sued the doctor.
I can hear you calling
From 10,000 light years away.
And I'd be there with you
But I can't afford to stay.
I remember every hour
8 times a day...
This night... night... night...
The flames are cold and blue.
Handbasket from Hell
All across Christmas.
Handbasket from Hell
I wonder if they missed us...
-Will Dockery (words)
Henry Conley (music)
One of your best, Doc, and easy to understand....
Okay, let's take it from the top, Pendragon, are you still with us?
"Ozone Stigmata" (Will Dockery & Henry Conley) performed by Jack Snipe
https://soundcloud.com/jacksnipe05/ozone-stigmata-second-draft
"Ozone Stigmata"
On another level
About a thousand years ago-
The first two lines set the stage... with me so far?
Not at all.
The first line implies that at least one level has already been introduced. None, in fact, has.
The second line dates the poem's action to approximately 1020 AD. This long after the action in the Orpheus myth -- and long before that of the Shadowville mythos (a.k.a., your life). It is, otoh, only a hundred years before the composition of Dante's "Inferno" -- which makes a better fit than the Orpheus myth.
But go on... explain to me what the unspoken level/levels are; and how the Orpheus myth took place a mere 1,000 years ago.
"On another level" just means what it says, and 1000 years seems far enough away to be "another level".
It says nothing (see above). It's like saying "on the one hand, we have this and on the other hand we have that." Without the "one hand" for comparison, the "other hand" is meaningless.
And while 1,000 years was a long time ago, it has no relation whatsoever to the Orpheus myth.
If you mean to say that the unidentified first level is the present and the "other" level is 1,000 years ago, it neither comes across in your poem nor connects your poem in any way, shape or form with Greek mythology.
Well, the poem is really about me and someone I know who died, and I bring her back out of Hell, or try to. The Orpheus myth influenced my poem.
The line "Handbasket /from/ Hell", in nutshell.
Orpheus did not cart Eurydice out of Hell in a handbasket.

Nor does the use of "from" necessary mean that the handbasket is departing from Hell. It could also mean that it was fashioned in Hell.

When something is especially terrible, we usually say that it is "from Hell." "She was the girlfriend from Hell." "It was the date from Hell." "He is the landlord from Hell."

"Handcart from Hell" implies that it was the single worst handcart you'd ever come across. It's wheels keep sticking, it wobbled, pulled to the right, etc. In keeping with the "Going to Hell in a handbasket" phrase, a handcart careen uncontrollably down a steep slope to Hell would easily be the worst handcart imaginable -- ergo, a handcart from Hell.

But even if we go with your protagonist miraculously riding an handcart *up* a steep slope (*against* every law of physics known to man), where does your poem show that there's a woman in it?

Let's look at the first three stanzas:

On another level
About a thousand years ago-
I tried to hold her
And my heart won't let go.

In countless variations
Just another two old souls.
And this net... net... net...
Don't let go the coat!

On a handbasket from Hell
I hold the handle.
Hand basket from Hell
Both sides of the candle.

As previously noted, the phrase "On another level" usually follows a detailed description of the first level. Since the readers don't know what the original level pertained to, this phrase is both meaningless and confusing.

The closest I can guess as to what you're trying to say here is that your poem is supposed to take place on some inner plane of consciousness -- but that is certainly *not* what the phrase implies.

"About a thousand years ago-" situates the action of the narrative in 1020 AD or thereabouts. Again, while this is relatively close to the composition of Dante's "Inferno" (ca., 1320 AD), it falls far short of Orpheus' time (ca., 1400 BC). While the phrase can simply mean "a long time ago," the 1,000 year limitation implies that it was no further back than the Middle Ages.

"I tried to hold her
And my heart won't let go."

This passage denotes a lost love. The speaker is still in love with her in spite of the fact that she has left him, died, or both.

If we assume that she died, we still have no more grounds for connecting this with Orpheus than we do for connecting it with Edgar Allan Poe (or with anyone else whose wife predeceased him).

"In countless variations
Just another two old souls."

This is a pair of run-on fragments that don't appear to have any sensible meaning. What is performing countless variations of what? And what has someone's being an "old soul" got to do with it?

Based on your claim that your poem is inspired by the Orpheus myth (and not by *anything* in your poem itself), I'm guessing that you mean to say something along the lines of: "It played out like one of countless variations on the Orpheus myth. The souls of lovers are, ultimately, all the same -- regardless of the time in which they'd lived."

Again, this is a guess based on your insistence that your poem is inspired by the Orpheus myth. There is nothing in your poem to make me even suspect that this is what you were trying to say.

"And this net... net... net...
Don't let go the coat!"

And... WTF?

I can't even begin to venture as guess as to what the "net... net... net..." is about. The broken English directive, "Don't let go the coat!" could (possibly) mean that Eurydice is holding onto Orpheus' coattails as they ascend from Hell... but, wait a second... Orpheus is ascending *up* the slopes in a shopping cart while Eurydice runs along behind him? The image is really too ridiculous to entertain.

On a handbasket from Hell
I hold the handle.
Hand basket from Hell
Both sides of the candle.

Apart from the obvious similarity to the chorus of the AC/DC song, what is this supposed to mean? You are pushing the handbasket up the incline with "Eurydice" running along behind? You are pushing her in the basket... no, she'd be in front of you then, and couldn't hold onto your coattails. Or is the basket miraculously careen *up* the slopes, with Will/Orpheus holding the handle as though he were riding a rollercoaster?

Who knows? I do know that candles are usually cylindrical and don't have sides. Did you mean "both ends"?

Sorry, but I drawing a big fat nothing here. And, again, I have to ask why the lady is in Hell?
NancyGene
2020-05-18 11:42:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by D***@novabbs.i2p
Post by Michelangelo Scarlotti
Post by D***@novabbs.i2p
Post by Michelangelo Scarlotti
Post by D***@novabbs.i2p
Post by Rocky
Post by Will Dockery
"Ozone Stigmata" (Will Dockery & Henry Conley) performed by Jack Snipe
https://soundcloud.com/jacksnipe05/ozone-stigmata-second-draft
"Ozone Stigmata"
On another level
About a thousand years ago-
I tried to hold her
And my heart won't let go.
In countless variations
Just another two old souls.
And this net... net... net...
Don't let go the coat!
On a handbasket from Hell
I hold the handle.
Hand basket from Hell
Both sides of the candle.
Read her note yesterday
The memory made me cry.
I dreamt I got back to her
Over time and over miles.
In this shaky kingdom
My first light that was true...
This light... light... light...
I raise a lantern for you!
Handbasket from Hell,
I tip the conductor.
Handbasket from Hell
I should have sued the doctor.
I can hear you calling
From 10,000 light years away.
And I'd be there with you
But I can't afford to stay.
I remember every hour
8 times a day...
This night... night... night...
The flames are cold and blue.
Handbasket from Hell
All across Christmas.
Handbasket from Hell
I wonder if they missed us...
-Will Dockery (words)
Henry Conley (music)
One of your best, Doc, and easy to understand....
Okay, let's take it from the top, Pendragon, are you still with us?
"Ozone Stigmata" (Will Dockery & Henry Conley) performed by Jack Snipe
https://soundcloud.com/jacksnipe05/ozone-stigmata-second-draft
"Ozone Stigmata"
On another level
About a thousand years ago-
The first two lines set the stage... with me so far?
Not at all.
The first line implies that at least one level has already been introduced. None, in fact, has.
The second line dates the poem's action to approximately 1020 AD. This long after the action in the Orpheus myth -- and long before that of the Shadowville mythos (a.k.a., your life). It is, otoh, only a hundred years before the composition of Dante's "Inferno" -- which makes a better fit than the Orpheus myth.
But go on... explain to me what the unspoken level/levels are; and how the Orpheus myth took place a mere 1,000 years ago.
"On another level" just means what it says, and 1000 years seems far enough away to be "another level".
It says nothing (see above). It's like saying "on the one hand, we have this and on the other hand we have that." Without the "one hand" for comparison, the "other hand" is meaningless.
And while 1,000 years was a long time ago, it has no relation whatsoever to the Orpheus myth.
If you mean to say that the unidentified first level is the present and the "other" level is 1,000 years ago, it neither comes across in your poem nor connects your poem in any way, shape or form with Greek mythology.
Well, the poem is really about me and someone I know who died, and I bring her back out of Hell, or try to. The Orpheus myth influenced my poem.
The line "Handbasket /from/ Hell", in nutshell.
Orpheus did not cart Eurydice out of Hell in a handbasket.
Nor does the use of "from" necessary mean that the handbasket is departing from Hell. It could also mean that it was fashioned in Hell.
When something is especially terrible, we usually say that it is "from Hell." "She was the girlfriend from Hell." "It was the date from Hell." "He is the landlord from Hell."
"Handcart from Hell" implies that it was the single worst handcart you'd ever come across. It's wheels keep sticking, it wobbled, pulled to the right, etc. In keeping with the "Going to Hell in a handbasket" phrase, a handcart careen uncontrollably down a steep slope to Hell would easily be the worst handcart imaginable -- ergo, a handcart from Hell.
But even if we go with your protagonist miraculously riding an handcart *up* a steep slope (*against* every law of physics known to man), where does your poem show that there's a woman in it?
On another level
About a thousand years ago-
I tried to hold her
And my heart won't let go.
In countless variations
Just another two old souls.
And this net... net... net...
Don't let go the coat!
On a handbasket from Hell
I hold the handle.
Hand basket from Hell
Both sides of the candle.
As previously noted, the phrase "On another level" usually follows a detailed description of the first level. Since the readers don't know what the original level pertained to, this phrase is both meaningless and confusing.
The closest I can guess as to what you're trying to say here is that your poem is supposed to take place on some inner plane of consciousness -- but that is certainly *not* what the phrase implies.
"About a thousand years ago-" situates the action of the narrative in 1020 AD or thereabouts. Again, while this is relatively close to the composition of Dante's "Inferno" (ca., 1320 AD), it falls far short of Orpheus' time (ca., 1400 BC). While the phrase can simply mean "a long time ago," the 1,000 year limitation implies that it was no further back than the Middle Ages.
"I tried to hold her
And my heart won't let go."
This passage denotes a lost love. The speaker is still in love with her in spite of the fact that she has left him, died, or both.
If we assume that she died, we still have no more grounds for connecting this with Orpheus than we do for connecting it with Edgar Allan Poe (or with anyone else whose wife predeceased him).
"In countless variations
Just another two old souls."
This is a pair of run-on fragments that don't appear to have any sensible meaning. What is performing countless variations of what? And what has someone's being an "old soul" got to do with it?
Based on your claim that your poem is inspired by the Orpheus myth (and not by *anything* in your poem itself), I'm guessing that you mean to say something along the lines of: "It played out like one of countless variations on the Orpheus myth. The souls of lovers are, ultimately, all the same -- regardless of the time in which they'd lived."
Again, this is a guess based on your insistence that your poem is inspired by the Orpheus myth. There is nothing in your poem to make me even suspect that this is what you were trying to say.
"And this net... net... net...
Don't let go the coat!"
And... WTF?
I can't even begin to venture as guess as to what the "net... net... net..." is about. The broken English directive, "Don't let go the coat!" could (possibly) mean that Eurydice is holding onto Orpheus' coattails as they ascend from Hell... but, wait a second... Orpheus is ascending *up* the slopes in a shopping cart while Eurydice runs along behind him? The image is really too ridiculous to entertain.
Yes, why does he even need a handbasket? However, we think that one solution to "Don't let go the coat!" is that Will, as he is wont to do, has the wrong word there [see "countess" instead of "countless."] What he really means is "Don't let go the cart" and instead typed "coat." He didn't notice this over the 40 years that he has reposted the thing.
Post by Michael Pendragon
On a handbasket from Hell
I hold the handle.
Hand basket from Hell
Both sides of the candle.
Apart from the obvious similarity to the chorus of the AC/DC song, what is this supposed to mean? You are pushing the handbasket up the incline with "Eurydice" running along behind? You are pushing her in the basket... no, she'd be in front of you then, and couldn't hold onto your coattails. Or is the basket miraculously careen *up* the slopes, with Will/Orpheus holding the handle as though he were riding a rollercoaster?
Who knows? I do know that candles are usually cylindrical and don't have sides. Did you mean "both ends"?
Sorry, but I drawing a big fat nothing here. And, again, I have to ask why the lady is in Hell?
If he has a grocery cart, why not take one of those motorized carts that the store has for handicapped people? Easy access in and out of Hell. Why does he need a cart or basket anyway? Was he going to pick up a few hot snacks while he was visiting Hell?
m***@yahoo.com
2020-05-18 15:27:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by NancyGene
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by D***@novabbs.i2p
Post by Michelangelo Scarlotti
Post by D***@novabbs.i2p
Post by Michelangelo Scarlotti
Post by D***@novabbs.i2p
Post by Rocky
Post by Will Dockery
"Ozone Stigmata" (Will Dockery & Henry Conley) performed by Jack Snipe
https://soundcloud.com/jacksnipe05/ozone-stigmata-second-draft
"Ozone Stigmata"
On another level
About a thousand years ago-
I tried to hold her
And my heart won't let go.
In countless variations
Just another two old souls.
And this net... net... net...
Don't let go the coat!
On a handbasket from Hell
I hold the handle.
Hand basket from Hell
Both sides of the candle.
Read her note yesterday
The memory made me cry.
I dreamt I got back to her
Over time and over miles.
In this shaky kingdom
My first light that was true...
This light... light... light...
I raise a lantern for you!
Handbasket from Hell,
I tip the conductor.
Handbasket from Hell
I should have sued the doctor.
I can hear you calling
From 10,000 light years away.
And I'd be there with you
But I can't afford to stay.
I remember every hour
8 times a day...
This night... night... night...
The flames are cold and blue.
Handbasket from Hell
All across Christmas.
Handbasket from Hell
I wonder if they missed us...
-Will Dockery (words)
Henry Conley (music)
One of your best, Doc, and easy to understand....
Okay, let's take it from the top, Pendragon, are you still with us?
"Ozone Stigmata" (Will Dockery & Henry Conley) performed by Jack Snipe
https://soundcloud.com/jacksnipe05/ozone-stigmata-second-draft
"Ozone Stigmata"
On another level
About a thousand years ago-
The first two lines set the stage... with me so far?
Not at all.
The first line implies that at least one level has already been introduced. None, in fact, has.
The second line dates the poem's action to approximately 1020 AD. This long after the action in the Orpheus myth -- and long before that of the Shadowville mythos (a.k.a., your life). It is, otoh, only a hundred years before the composition of Dante's "Inferno" -- which makes a better fit than the Orpheus myth.
But go on... explain to me what the unspoken level/levels are; and how the Orpheus myth took place a mere 1,000 years ago.
"On another level" just means what it says, and 1000 years seems far enough away to be "another level".
It says nothing (see above). It's like saying "on the one hand, we have this and on the other hand we have that." Without the "one hand" for comparison, the "other hand" is meaningless.
And while 1,000 years was a long time ago, it has no relation whatsoever to the Orpheus myth.
If you mean to say that the unidentified first level is the present and the "other" level is 1,000 years ago, it neither comes across in your poem nor connects your poem in any way, shape or form with Greek mythology.
Well, the poem is really about me and someone I know who died, and I bring her back out of Hell, or try to. The Orpheus myth influenced my poem.
The line "Handbasket /from/ Hell", in nutshell.
Orpheus did not cart Eurydice out of Hell in a handbasket.
Nor does the use of "from" necessary mean that the handbasket is departing from Hell. It could also mean that it was fashioned in Hell.
When something is especially terrible, we usually say that it is "from Hell." "She was the girlfriend from Hell." "It was the date from Hell." "He is the landlord from Hell."
"Handcart from Hell" implies that it was the single worst handcart you'd ever come across. It's wheels keep sticking, it wobbled, pulled to the right, etc. In keeping with the "Going to Hell in a handbasket" phrase, a handcart careen uncontrollably down a steep slope to Hell would easily be the worst handcart imaginable -- ergo, a handcart from Hell.
But even if we go with your protagonist miraculously riding an handcart *up* a steep slope (*against* every law of physics known to man), where does your poem show that there's a woman in it?
On another level
About a thousand years ago-
I tried to hold her
And my heart won't let go.
In countless variations
Just another two old souls.
And this net... net... net...
Don't let go the coat!
On a handbasket from Hell
I hold the handle.
Hand basket from Hell
Both sides of the candle.
As previously noted, the phrase "On another level" usually follows a detailed description of the first level. Since the readers don't know what the original level pertained to, this phrase is both meaningless and confusing.
The closest I can guess as to what you're trying to say here is that your poem is supposed to take place on some inner plane of consciousness -- but that is certainly *not* what the phrase implies.
"About a thousand years ago-" situates the action of the narrative in 1020 AD or thereabouts. Again, while this is relatively close to the composition of Dante's "Inferno" (ca., 1320 AD), it falls far short of Orpheus' time (ca., 1400 BC). While the phrase can simply mean "a long time ago," the 1,000 year limitation implies that it was no further back than the Middle Ages.
"I tried to hold her
And my heart won't let go."
This passage denotes a lost love. The speaker is still in love with her in spite of the fact that she has left him, died, or both.
If we assume that she died, we still have no more grounds for connecting this with Orpheus than we do for connecting it with Edgar Allan Poe (or with anyone else whose wife predeceased him).
"In countless variations
Just another two old souls."
This is a pair of run-on fragments that don't appear to have any sensible meaning. What is performing countless variations of what? And what has someone's being an "old soul" got to do with it?
Based on your claim that your poem is inspired by the Orpheus myth (and not by *anything* in your poem itself), I'm guessing that you mean to say something along the lines of: "It played out like one of countless variations on the Orpheus myth. The souls of lovers are, ultimately, all the same -- regardless of the time in which they'd lived."
Again, this is a guess based on your insistence that your poem is inspired by the Orpheus myth. There is nothing in your poem to make me even suspect that this is what you were trying to say.
"And this net... net... net...
Don't let go the coat!"
And... WTF?
I can't even begin to venture as guess as to what the "net... net... net..." is about. The broken English directive, "Don't let go the coat!" could (possibly) mean that Eurydice is holding onto Orpheus' coattails as they ascend from Hell... but, wait a second... Orpheus is ascending *up* the slopes in a shopping cart while Eurydice runs along behind him? The image is really too ridiculous to entertain.
Yes, why does he even need a handbasket? However, we think that one solution to "Don't let go the coat!" is that Will, as he is wont to do, has the wrong word there [see "countess" instead of "countless."] What he really means is "Don't let go the cart" and instead typed "coat." He didn't notice this over the 40 years that he has reposted the thing.
Post by Michael Pendragon
On a handbasket from Hell
I hold the handle.
Hand basket from Hell
Both sides of the candle.
Apart from the obvious similarity to the chorus of the AC/DC song, what is this supposed to mean? You are pushing the handbasket up the incline with "Eurydice" running along behind? You are pushing her in the basket... no, she'd be in front of you then, and couldn't hold onto your coattails. Or is the basket miraculously careen *up* the slopes, with Will/Orpheus holding the handle as though he were riding a rollercoaster?
Who knows? I do know that candles are usually cylindrical and don't have sides. Did you mean "both ends"?
Sorry, but I drawing a big fat nothing here. And, again, I have to ask why the lady is in Hell?
If he has a grocery cart, why not take one of those motorized carts that the store has for handicapped people? Easy access in and out of Hell. Why does he need a cart or basket anyway? Was he going to pick up a few hot snacks while he was visiting Hell?
Why don't you both just go to Hell and find an answer?
Rocky
2020-05-18 19:11:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
madeforzyngagames wrote on Mon, 18 May 2020 15:27
Post by m***@yahoo.com
Post by NancyGene
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by D***@novabbs.i2p
Post by Michelangelo Scarlotti
Post by D***@novabbs.i2p
Post by Michelangelo Scarlotti
Post by D***@novabbs.i2p
Post by Rocky
Post by Will Dockery
"Ozone Stigmata" (Will Dockery & Henry Conley) performed by Jack Snipe
https://soundcloud.com/jacksnipe05/ozone-stigmata-second-draft
"Ozone Stigmata"
On another level
About a thousand years ago-
I tried to hold her
And my heart won't let go.
In countless variations
Just another two old souls.
And this net... net... net...
Don't let go the coat!
On a handbasket from Hell
I hold the handle.
Hand basket from Hell
Both sides of the candle.
Read her note yesterday
The memory made me cry.
I dreamt I got back to her
Over time and over miles.
In this shaky kingdom
My first light that was true...
This light... light... light...
I raise a lantern for you!
Handbasket from Hell,
I tip the conductor.
Handbasket from Hell
I should have sued the doctor.
I can hear you calling
From 10,000 light years away.
And I'd be there with you
But I can't afford to stay.
I remember every hour
8 times a day...
This night... night... night...
The flames are cold and blue.
Handbasket from Hell
All across Christmas.
Handbasket from Hell
I wonder if they missed us...
-Will Dockery (words)
Henry Conley (music)
One of your best, Doc, and easy to understand....
Okay, let's take it from the top, Pendragon, are you still with us?
"Ozone Stigmata" (Will Dockery & Henry Conley) performed by Jack Snipe
https://soundcloud.com/jacksnipe05/ozone-stigmata-second-draft
"Ozone Stigmata"
On another level
About a thousand years ago-
The first two lines set the stage... with me so far?
Not at all.
The first line implies that at least one level has already been introduced. None, in fact, has.
The second line dates the poem's action to approximately 1020 AD. This long after the action in the Orpheus myth -- and long before that of the Shadowville mythos (a.k.a., your life). It is, otoh, only a hundred years before the composition of Dante's "Inferno" -- which makes a better fit than the Orpheus myth.
But go on... explain to me what the unspoken level/levels are; and how the Orpheus myth took place a mere 1,000 years ago.
"On another level" just means what it says, and 1000 years seems far enough away to be "another level".
It says nothing (see above). It's like saying "on the one hand, we have this and on the other hand we have that." Without the "one hand" for comparison, the "other hand" is meaningless.
And while 1,000 years was a long time ago, it has no relation whatsoever to the Orpheus myth.
If you mean to say that the unidentified first level is the present and the "other" level is 1,000 years ago, it neither comes across in your poem nor connects your poem in any way, shape or form with Greek mythology.
Well, the poem is really about me and someone I know who died, and I bring her back out of Hell, or try to. The Orpheus myth influenced my poem.
The line "Handbasket /from/ Hell", in nutshell.
Orpheus did not cart Eurydice out of Hell in a handbasket.
Nor does the use of "from" necessary mean that the handbasket is departing from Hell. It could also mean that it was fashioned in Hell.
When something is especially terrible, we usually say that it is "from Hell." "She was the girlfriend from Hell." "It was the date from Hell." "He is the landlord from Hell."
"Handcart from Hell" implies that it was the single worst handcart you'd ever come across. It's wheels keep sticking, it wobbled, pulled to the right, etc. In keeping with the "Going to Hell in a handbasket" phrase, a handcart careen uncontrollably down a steep slope to Hell would easily be the worst handcart imaginable -- ergo, a handcart from Hell.
But even if we go with your protagonist miraculously riding an handcart *up* a steep slope (*against* every law of physics known to man), where does your poem show that there's a woman in it?
On another level
About a thousand years ago-
I tried to hold her
And my heart won't let go.
In countless variations
Just another two old souls.
And this net... net... net...
Don't let go the coat!
On a handbasket from Hell
I hold the handle.
Hand basket from Hell
Both sides of the candle.
As previously noted, the phrase "On another level" usually follows a detailed description of the first level. Since the readers don't know what the original level pertained to, this phrase is both meaningless and confusing.
The closest I can guess as to what you're trying to say here is that your poem is supposed to take place on some inner plane of consciousness -- but that is certainly *not* what the phrase implies.
"About a thousand years ago-" situates the action of the narrative in 1020 AD or thereabouts. Again, while this is relatively close to the composition of Dante's "Inferno" (ca., 1320 AD), it falls far short of Orpheus' time (ca., 1400 BC). While the phrase can simply mean "a long time ago," the 1,000 year limitation implies that it was no further back than the Middle Ages.
"I tried to hold her
And my heart won't let go."
This passage denotes a lost love. The speaker is still in love with her in spite of the fact that she has left him, died, or both.
If we assume that she died, we still have no more grounds for connecting this with Orpheus than we do for connecting it with Edgar Allan Poe (or with anyone else whose wife predeceased him).
"In countless variations
Just another two old souls."
This is a pair of run-on fragments that don't appear to have any sensible meaning. What is performing countless variations of what? And what has someone's being an "old soul" got to do with it?
Based on your claim that your poem is inspired by the Orpheus myth (and not by *anything* in your poem itself), I'm guessing that you mean to say something along the lines of: "It played out like one of countless variations on the Orpheus myth. The souls of lovers are, ultimately, all the same -- regardless of the time in which they'd lived."
Again, this is a guess based on your insistence that your poem is inspired by the Orpheus myth. There is nothing in your poem to make me even suspect that this is what you were trying to say.
"And this net... net... net...
Don't let go the coat!"
And... WTF?
I can't even begin to venture as guess as to what the "net... net... net..." is about. The broken English directive, "Don't let go the coat!" could (possibly) mean that Eurydice is holding onto Orpheus' coattails as they ascend from Hell... but, wait a second... Orpheus is ascending *up* the slopes in a shopping cart while Eurydice runs along behind him? The image is really too ridiculous to entertain.
Yes, why does he even need a handbasket? However, we think that one solution to "Don't let go the coat!" is that Will, as he is wont to do, has the wrong word there [see "countess" instead of "countless."] What he really means is "Don't let go the cart" and instead typed "coat." He didn't notice this over the 40 years that he has reposted the thing.
Post by Michael Pendragon
On a handbasket from Hell
I hold the handle.
Hand basket from Hell
Both sides of the candle.
Apart from the obvious similarity to the chorus of the AC/DC song, what is this supposed to mean? You are pushing the handbasket up the incline with "Eurydice" running along behind? You are pushing her in the basket... no, she'd be in front of you then, and couldn't hold onto your coattails. Or is the basket miraculously careen *up* the slopes, with Will/Orpheus holding the handle as though he were riding a rollercoaster?
Who knows? I do know that candles are usually cylindrical and don't have sides. Did you mean "both ends"?
Sorry, but I drawing a big fat nothing here. And, again, I have to ask why the lady is in Hell?
If he has a grocery cart, why not take one of those motorized carts that the store has for handicapped people? Easy access in and out of Hell. Why does he need a cart or basket anyway? Was he going to pick up a few hot snacks while he was visiting Hell?
Why don't you both just go to Hell and find an answer?
Ha ha ha... they are just about obsessed enough to do just that...!
ME
2020-05-18 21:56:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rocky
madeforzyngagames wrote on Mon, 18 May 2020 15:27
Post by m***@yahoo.com
Post by NancyGene
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by D***@novabbs.i2p
Post by Michelangelo Scarlotti
Post by D***@novabbs.i2p
Post by Michelangelo Scarlotti
Post by D***@novabbs.i2p
Post by Rocky
Post by Will Dockery
"Ozone Stigmata" (Will Dockery & Henry Conley) performed by Jack Snipe
https://soundcloud.com/jacksnipe05/ozone-stigmata-second-draft
"Ozone Stigmata"
On another level
About a thousand years ago-
I tried to hold her
And my heart won't let go.
In countless variations
Just another two old souls.
And this net... net... net...
Don't let go the coat!
On a handbasket from Hell
I hold the handle.
Hand basket from Hell
Both sides of the candle.
Read her note yesterday
The memory made me cry.
I dreamt I got back to her
Over time and over miles.
In this shaky kingdom
My first light that was true...
This light... light... light...
I raise a lantern for you!
Handbasket from Hell,
I tip the conductor.
Handbasket from Hell
I should have sued the doctor.
I can hear you calling
From 10,000 light years away.
And I'd be there with you
But I can't afford to stay.
I remember every hour
8 times a day...
This night... night... night...
The flames are cold and blue.
Handbasket from Hell
All across Christmas.
Handbasket from Hell
I wonder if they missed us...
-Will Dockery (words)
Henry Conley (music)
One of your best, Doc, and easy to understand....
Okay, let's take it from the top, Pendragon, are you still with us?
"Ozone Stigmata" (Will Dockery & Henry Conley) performed by Jack Snipe
https://soundcloud.com/jacksnipe05/ozone-stigmata-second-draft
"Ozone Stigmata"
On another level
About a thousand years ago-
The first two lines set the stage... with me so far?
Not at all.
The first line implies that at least one level has already been introduced. None, in fact, has.
The second line dates the poem's action to approximately 1020 AD. This long after the action in the Orpheus myth -- and long before that of the Shadowville mythos (a.k.a., your life). It is, otoh, only a hundred years before the composition of Dante's "Inferno" -- which makes a better fit than the Orpheus myth.
But go on... explain to me what the unspoken level/levels are; and how the Orpheus myth took place a mere 1,000 years ago.
"On another level" just means what it says, and 1000 years seems far enough away to be "another level".
It says nothing (see above). It's like saying "on the one hand, we have this and on the other hand we have that." Without the "one hand" for comparison, the "other hand" is meaningless.
And while 1,000 years was a long time ago, it has no relation whatsoever to the Orpheus myth.
If you mean to say that the unidentified first level is the present and the "other" level is 1,000 years ago, it neither comes across in your poem nor connects your poem in any way, shape or form with Greek mythology.
Well, the poem is really about me and someone I know who died, and I bring her back out of Hell, or try to. The Orpheus myth influenced my poem.
The line "Handbasket /from/ Hell", in nutshell.
Orpheus did not cart Eurydice out of Hell in a handbasket.
Nor does the use of "from" necessary mean that the handbasket is departing from Hell. It could also mean that it was fashioned in Hell.
When something is especially terrible, we usually say that it is "from Hell." "She was the girlfriend from Hell." "It was the date from Hell." "He is the landlord from Hell."
"Handcart from Hell" implies that it was the single worst handcart you'd ever come across. It's wheels keep sticking, it wobbled, pulled to the right, etc. In keeping with the "Going to Hell in a handbasket" phrase, a handcart careen uncontrollably down a steep slope to Hell would easily be the worst handcart imaginable -- ergo, a handcart from Hell.
But even if we go with your protagonist miraculously riding an handcart *up* a steep slope (*against* every law of physics known to man), where does your poem show that there's a woman in it?
On another level
About a thousand years ago-
I tried to hold her
And my heart won't let go.
In countless variations
Just another two old souls.
And this net... net... net...
Don't let go the coat!
On a handbasket from Hell
I hold the handle.
Hand basket from Hell
Both sides of the candle.
As previously noted, the phrase "On another level" usually follows a detailed description of the first level. Since the readers don't know what the original level pertained to, this phrase is both meaningless and confusing.
The closest I can guess as to what you're trying to say here is that your poem is supposed to take place on some inner plane of consciousness -- but that is certainly *not* what the phrase implies.
"About a thousand years ago-" situates the action of the narrative in 1020 AD or thereabouts. Again, while this is relatively close to the composition of Dante's "Inferno" (ca., 1320 AD), it falls far short of Orpheus' time (ca., 1400 BC). While the phrase can simply mean "a long time ago," the 1,000 year limitation implies that it was no further back than the Middle Ages.
"I tried to hold her
And my heart won't let go."
This passage denotes a lost love. The speaker is still in love with her in spite of the fact that she has left him, died, or both.
If we assume that she died, we still have no more grounds for connecting this with Orpheus than we do for connecting it with Edgar Allan Poe (or with anyone else whose wife predeceased him).
"In countless variations
Just another two old souls."
This is a pair of run-on fragments that don't appear to have any sensible meaning. What is performing countless variations of what? And what has someone's being an "old soul" got to do with it?
Based on your claim that your poem is inspired by the Orpheus myth (and not by *anything* in your poem itself), I'm guessing that you mean to say something along the lines of: "It played out like one of countless variations on the Orpheus myth. The souls of lovers are, ultimately, all the same -- regardless of the time in which they'd lived."
Again, this is a guess based on your insistence that your poem is inspired by the Orpheus myth. There is nothing in your poem to make me even suspect that this is what you were trying to say.
"And this net... net... net...
Don't let go the coat!"
And... WTF?
I can't even begin to venture as guess as to what the "net... net... net..." is about. The broken English directive, "Don't let go the coat!" could (possibly) mean that Eurydice is holding onto Orpheus' coattails as they ascend from Hell... but, wait a second... Orpheus is ascending *up* the slopes in a shopping cart while Eurydice runs along behind him? The image is really too ridiculous to entertain.
Yes, why does he even need a handbasket? However, we think that one solution to "Don't let go the coat!" is that Will, as he is wont to do, has the wrong word there [see "countess" instead of "countless."] What he really means is "Don't let go the cart" and instead typed "coat." He didn't notice this over the 40 years that he has reposted the thing.
Post by Michael Pendragon
On a handbasket from Hell
I hold the handle.
Hand basket from Hell
Both sides of the candle.
Apart from the obvious similarity to the chorus of the AC/DC song, what is this supposed to mean? You are pushing the handbasket up the incline with "Eurydice" running along behind? You are pushing her in the basket... no, she'd be in front of you then, and couldn't hold onto your coattails. Or is the basket miraculously careen *up* the slopes, with Will/Orpheus holding the handle as though he were riding a rollercoaster?
Who knows? I do know that candles are usually cylindrical and don't have sides. Did you mean "both ends"?
Sorry, but I drawing a big fat nothing here. And, again, I have to ask why the lady is in Hell?
If he has a grocery cart, why not take one of those motorized carts that the store has for handicapped people? Easy access in and out of Hell. Why does he need a cart or basket anyway? Was he going to pick up a few hot snacks while he was visiting Hell?
Why don't you both just go to Hell and find an answer?
Ha ha ha... they are just about obsessed enough to do just that...!
Ha Ha Ha...... rocky!!
This is your yahoo address!!
Z***@none.i2p
2020-05-18 22:17:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
ME[8
Post by ME
Post by Rocky
madeforzyngagames wrote on Mon, 18 May 2020 15:27
Post by m***@yahoo.com
Post by NancyGene
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by D***@novabbs.i2p
Post by Michelangelo Scarlotti
Post by D***@novabbs.i2p
Post by Michelangelo Scarlotti
Post by D***@novabbs.i2p
Post by Rocky
Post by Will Dockery
"Ozone Stigmata" (Will Dockery & Henry Conley) performed by Jack Snipe
https://soundcloud.com/jacksnipe05/ozone-stigmata-second-draft
"Ozone Stigmata"
On another level
About a thousand years ago-
I tried to hold her
And my heart won't let go.
In countless variations
Just another two old souls.
And this net... net... net...
Don't let go the coat!
On a handbasket from Hell
I hold the handle.
Hand basket from Hell
Both sides of the candle.
Read her note yesterday
The memory made me cry.
I dreamt I got back to her
Over time and over miles.
In this shaky kingdom
My first light that was true...
This light... light... light...
I raise a lantern for you!
Handbasket from Hell,
I tip the conductor.
Handbasket from Hell
I should have sued the doctor.
I can hear you calling
From 10,000 light years away.
And I'd be there with you
But I can't afford to stay.
I remember every hour
8 times a day...
This night... night... night...
The flames are cold and blue.
Handbasket from Hell
All across Christmas.
Handbasket from Hell
I wonder if they missed us...
-Will Dockery (words)
Henry Conley (music)
One of your best, Doc, and easy to understand....
Okay, let's take it from the top, Pendragon, are you still with us?
"Ozone Stigmata" (Will Dockery & Henry Conley) performed by Jack Snipe
https://soundcloud.com/jacksnipe05/ozone-stigmata-second-draft
"Ozone Stigmata"
On another level
About a thousand years ago-
The first two lines set the stage... with me so far?
Not at all.
The first line implies that at least one level has already been introduced. None, in fact, has.
The second line dates the poem's action to approximately 1020 AD. This long after the action in the Orpheus myth -- and long before that of the Shadowville mythos (a.k.a., your life). It is, otoh, only a hundred years before the composition of Dante's "Inferno" -- which makes a better fit than the Orpheus myth.
But go on... explain to me what the unspoken level/levels are; and how the Orpheus myth took place a mere 1,000 years ago.
"On another level" just means what it says, and 1000 years seems far enough away to be "another level".
It says nothing (see above). It's like saying "on the one hand, we have this and on the other hand we have that." Without the "one hand" for comparison, the "other hand" is meaningless.
And while 1,000 years was a long time ago, it has no relation whatsoever to the Orpheus myth.
If you mean to say that the unidentified first level is the present and the "other" level is 1,000 years ago, it neither comes across in your poem nor connects your poem in any way, shape or form with Greek mythology.
Well, the poem is really about me and someone I know who died, and I bring her back out of Hell, or try to. The Orpheus myth influenced my poem.
The line "Handbasket /from/ Hell", in nutshell.
Orpheus did not cart Eurydice out of Hell in a handbasket.
Nor does the use of "from" necessary mean that the handbasket is departing from Hell. It could also mean that it was fashioned in Hell.
When something is especially terrible, we usually say that it is "from Hell." "She was the girlfriend from Hell." "It was the date from Hell.." "He is the landlord from Hell."
"Handcart from Hell" implies that it was the single worst handcart you'd ever come across. It's wheels keep sticking, it wobbled, pulled to the right, etc. In keeping with the "Going to Hell in a handbasket" phrase, a handcart careen uncontrollably down a steep slope to Hell would easily be the worst handcart imaginable -- ergo, a handcart from Hell.
But even if we go with your protagonist miraculously riding an handcart *up* a steep slope (*against* every law of physics known to man), where does your poem show that there's a woman in it?
On another level
About a thousand years ago-
I tried to hold her
And my heart won't let go.
In countless variations
Just another two old souls.
And this net... net... net...
Don't let go the coat!
On a handbasket from Hell
I hold the handle.
Hand basket from Hell
Both sides of the candle.
As previously noted, the phrase "On another level" usually follows a detailed description of the first level. Since the readers don't know what the original level pertained to, this phrase is both meaningless and confusing.
The closest I can guess as to what you're trying to say here is that your poem is supposed to take place on some inner plane of consciousness -- but that is certainly *not* what the phrase implies.
"About a thousand years ago-" situates the action of the narrative in 1020 AD or thereabouts. Again, while this is relatively close to the composition of Dante's "Inferno" (ca., 1320 AD), it falls far short of Orpheus' time (ca., 1400 BC). While the phrase can simply mean "a long time ago," the 1,000 year limitation implies that it was no further back than the Middle Ages.
"I tried to hold her
And my heart won't let go."
This passage denotes a lost love. The speaker is still in love with her in spite of the fact that she has left him, died, or both.
If we assume that she died, we still have no more grounds for connecting this with Orpheus than we do for connecting it with Edgar Allan Poe (or with anyone else whose wife predeceased him).
"In countless variations
Just another two old souls."
This is a pair of run-on fragments that don't appear to have any sensible meaning. What is performing countless variations of what? And what has someone's being an "old soul" got to do with it?
Based on your claim that your poem is inspired by the Orpheus myth (and not by *anything* in your poem itself), I'm guessing that you mean to say something along the lines of: "It played out like one of countless variations on the Orpheus myth. The souls of lovers are, ultimately, all the same -- regardless of the time in which they'd lived."
Again, this is a guess based on your insistence that your poem is inspired by the Orpheus myth. There is nothing in your poem to make me even suspect that this is what you were trying to say.
"And this net... net... net...
Don't let go the coat!"
And... WTF?
I can't even begin to venture as guess as to what the "net... net.... net..." is about. The broken English directive, "Don't let go the coat!" could (possibly) mean that Eurydice is holding onto Orpheus' coattails as they ascend from Hell... but, wait a second... Orpheus is ascending *up* the slopes in a shopping cart while Eurydice runs along behind him? The image is really too ridiculous to entertain.
Yes, why does he even need a handbasket? However, we think that one solution to "Don't let go the coat!" is that Will, as he is wont to do, has the wrong word there [see "countess" instead of "countless."] What he really means is "Don't let go the cart" and instead typed "coat." He didn't notice this over the 40 years that he has reposted the thing.
Post by Michael Pendragon
On a handbasket from Hell
I hold the handle.
Hand basket from Hell
Both sides of the candle.
Apart from the obvious similarity to the chorus of the AC/DC song, what is this supposed to mean? You are pushing the handbasket up the incline with "Eurydice" running along behind? You are pushing her in the basket.... no, she'd be in front of you then, and couldn't hold onto your coattails. Or is the basket miraculously careen *up* the slopes, with Will/Orpheus holding the handle as though he were riding a rollercoaster?
Who knows? I do know that candles are usually cylindrical and don't have sides. Did you mean "both ends"?
Sorry, but I drawing a big fat nothing here. And, again, I have to ask why the lady is in Hell?
If he has a grocery cart, why not take one of those motorized carts that the store has for handicapped people? Easy access in and out of Hell. Why does he need a cart or basket anyway? Was he going to pick up a few hot snacks while he was visiting Hell?
Why don't you both just go to Hell and find an answer?
Ha ha ha... they are just about obsessed enough to do just that...!
Ha Ha Ha...... rocky!!
This is your yahoo address!!
I have not used Yahoo in perhaps 15 years or more...
Will Dockery
2020-05-18 19:45:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by Will Dockery
Post by D***@novabbs.i2p
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Will Dockery
"Ozone Stigmata" (Will Dockery & Henry Conley) performed by Jack Snipe
https://soundcloud.com/jacksnipe05/ozone-stigmata-second-draft
"Ozone Stigmata"
On another level
About a thousand years ago-
I tried to hold her
And my heart won't let go.
In countless variations
Just another two old souls.
And this net... net... net...
Don't let go the coat!
On a handbasket from Hell
I hold the handle.
Hand basket from Hell
Both sides of the candle.
Read her note yesterday
The memory made me cry.
I dreamt I got back to her
Over time and over miles.
In this shaky kingdom
My first light that was true...
This light... light... light...
I raise a lantern for you!
Handbasket from Hell,
I tip the conductor.
Handbasket from Hell
I should have sued the doctor.
I can hear you calling
From 10,000 light years away.
And I'd be there with you
But I can't afford to stay.
I remember every hour
8 times a day...
This night... night... night...
The flames are cold and blue.
Handbasket from Hell
All across Christmas.
Handbasket from Hell
I wonder if they missed us...
-Will Dockery (words)
Henry Conley (music)
"Ozone Stigmata" (Will Dockery & Henry Conley) performed by Jack Snipe
https://soundcloud.com/jacksnipe05/ozone-stigmata-second-draft
"Ozone Stigmata"
On another level
About a thousand years ago-
<...>
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by Will Dockery
Post by D***@novabbs.i2p
Well, the poem is really about me and someone I know who died, and I bring her back out of Hell, or try to. The Orpheus myth influenced my poem.
The line "Handbasket /from/ Hell", in nutshell.
<...>
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by Will Dockery
On another level
About a thousand years ago-
I tried to hold her
And my heart won't let go.
In countless variations
Just another two old souls.
And this net... net... net...
Don't let go the coat!
On a handbasket from Hell
I hold the handle.
Hand basket from Hell
Both sides of the candle.
<...>
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by Will Dockery
On a handbasket from Hell
I hold the handle.
Hand basket from Hell
Both sides of the candle.
Apart from the obvious similarity to the chorus of the AC/DC song
There's no similarity at all, not in words, not in music.

There's an homage to The Who, but even that is simply one character telling the other "Don't give up."
Rocky
2020-05-18 16:25:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Michael Pendragon wrote on Mon, 18 May 2020 02:37
[color=blue]>
Post by D***@novabbs.i2p
Post by Rocky
Post by Will Dockery
"Ozone Stigmata" (Will Dockery & Henry Conley) performed by Jack Snipe
https://soundcloud.com/jacksnipe05/ozone-stigmata-second-draft
"Ozone Stigmata"
On another level
About a thousand years ago-
I tried to hold her
And my heart won't let go.
In countless variations
Just another two old souls.
And this net... net... net...
Don't let go the coat!
On a handbasket from Hell
I hold the handle.
Hand basket from Hell
Both sides of the candle.
Read her note yesterday
The memory made me cry.
I dreamt I got back to her
Over time and over miles.
In this shaky kingdom
My first light that was true...
This light... light... light...
I raise a lantern for you!
Handbasket from Hell,
I tip the conductor.
Handbasket from Hell
I should have sued the doctor.
I can hear you calling
From 10,000 light years away.
And I'd be there with you
But I can't afford to stay.
I remember every hour
8 times a day...
This night... night... night...
The flames are cold and blue.
Handbasket from Hell
All across Christmas.
Handbasket from Hell
I wonder if they missed us...
-Will Dockery (words)
Henry Conley (music)
One of your best, Doc, and easy to understand....
Okay, let's take it from the top, Pendragon, are you still with us?
"Ozone Stigmata" (Will Dockery & Henry Conley) performed by Jack Snipe
https://soundcloud.com/jacksnipe05/ozone-stigmata-second-draft
[color=skyblue]>>>>
The broken English directive, "Don't let go the coat!" could (possibly) mean
A Who reference



The Who - Don't Let Go The Coat - YouTube
Will Dockery
2020-05-18 20:00:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rocky
Michael Pendragon wrote on Mon, 18 May 2020 02:37
[color=blue]>
Post by D***@novabbs.i2p
Post by Rocky
Post by Will Dockery
"Ozone Stigmata" (Will Dockery & Henry Conley) performed by Jack Snipe
https://soundcloud.com/jacksnipe05/ozone-stigmata-second-draft
"Ozone Stigmata"
On another level
About a thousand years ago-
I tried to hold her
And my heart won't let go.
In countless variations
Just another two old souls.
And this net... net... net...
Don't let go the coat!
On a handbasket from Hell
I hold the handle.
Hand basket from Hell
Both sides of the candle.
Read her note yesterday
The memory made me cry.
I dreamt I got back to her
Over time and over miles.
In this shaky kingdom
My first light that was true...
This light... light... light...
I raise a lantern for you!
Handbasket from Hell,
I tip the conductor.
Handbasket from Hell
I should have sued the doctor.
I can hear you calling
From 10,000 light years away.
And I'd be there with you
But I can't afford to stay.
I remember every hour
8 times a day...
This night... night... night...
The flames are cold and blue.
Handbasket from Hell
All across Christmas.
Handbasket from Hell
I wonder if they missed us...
-Will Dockery (words)
Henry Conley (music)
One of your best, Doc, and easy to understand....
Okay, let's take it from the top, Pendragon, are you still with us?
"Ozone Stigmata" (Will Dockery & Henry Conley) performed by Jack Snipe
https://soundcloud.com/jacksnipe05/ozone-stigmata-second-draft
[color=skyblue]>>>>
The broken English directive, "Don't let go the coat!" could (possibly) mean
http://youtu.be/LvWwtfKiGUk
The Who - Don't Let Go The Coat - YouTube
One of The Who's most eloquent songs, meaning simply "Don't give up."

;)
Z***@none.i2p
2020-05-20 17:02:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Will Dockery wrote on Mon, 18 May 2020 20:00
Post by Rocky
Michael Pendragon wrote on Mon, 18 May 2020 02:37
[color=teal]>> >
Post by Rocky
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by D***@novabbs.i2p
Post by Rocky
Post by Will Dockery
"Ozone Stigmata" (Will Dockery & Henry Conley) performed by Jack Snipe
https://soundcloud.com/jacksnipe05/ozone-stigmata-second-draft
"Ozone Stigmata"
On another level
About a thousand years ago-
I tried to hold her
And my heart won't let go.
In countless variations
Just another two old souls.
And this net... net... net...
Don't let go the coat!
On a handbasket from Hell
I hold the handle.
Hand basket from Hell
Both sides of the candle.
Read her note yesterday
The memory made me cry.
I dreamt I got back to her
Over time and over miles.
In this shaky kingdom
My first light that was true...
This light... light... light...
I raise a lantern for you!
Handbasket from Hell,
I tip the conductor.
Handbasket from Hell
I should have sued the doctor.
I can hear you calling
From 10,000 light years away.
And I'd be there with you
But I can't afford to stay.
I remember every hour
8 times a day...
This night... night... night...
The flames are cold and blue.
Handbasket from Hell
All across Christmas.
Handbasket from Hell
I wonder if they missed us...
-Will Dockery (words)
Henry Conley (music)
One of your best, Doc, and easy to understand....
Okay, let's take it from the top, Pendragon, are you still with us?
"Ozone Stigmata" (Will Dockery & Henry Conley) performed by Jack Snipe
https://soundcloud.com/jacksnipe05/ozone-stigmata-second-draft
[color=teal]>> >>>>
Post by Rocky
Post by Michael Pendragon
The broken English directive, "Don't let go the coat!" could (possibly) mean
http://youtu.be/LvWwtfKiGUk
The Who - Don't Let Go The Coat - YouTube
One of The Who's most eloquent songs, meaning simply "Don't give up."
;)
Indeed so....
D***@novabbs.i2p
2020-05-17 09:20:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Well, the poem is really about me and someone I know who died, and I bring her back out of Hell, or try to. The Orpheus myth influenced my poem.
Michael Pendragon
2020-05-18 01:55:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by D***@novabbs.i2p
Well, the poem is really about me and someone I know who died, and I bring her back out of Hell, or try to. The Orpheus myth influenced my poem.
Where in your poem does it say that you are bringing anyone back from Hell? I just forced myself to reread it (God help me!) and I can't find anything even hinting that your protagonist is attempting to bring a dead woman out of Hell.

Nor does one take a handbasket *out* of Hell. Hell is traditionally situated in the center of the Earth. Handbaskets (shopping carts) roll in a downward direction. They can't be steered, braked, or otherwise controlled. If you're sitting in a handcart that is rolling down a steep incline, the only thing you can do is scream as you recklessly careen down to the bottom.

However, once you reached the bottom, the cart isn't going to roll back up again. Gravity doesn't work that way.

My guess is that you were inspired by the AC/DC song "Highway to Hell," which (like most music of its genre) repeats a familiar phrase numerous times -- along with some unintelligible verses that most listeners just skip over.

You said, Yo, Hen... let's do sumpin' like "Highway to Hell." Henry shrugged and asked, Okay... watchu got?

Naturally, the phrase "Going to Hell in a handbasket" (itself a variation of "Highway to Hell") sprang to mind.

But I digress.

Point out the passages in your poem that tell us you are taking a dead woman's soul out of Hell.
Rocky
2020-05-18 18:26:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Michael Pendragon wrote on Mon, 18 May 2020 01:55
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by D***@novabbs.i2p
Well, the poem is really about me and someone I know who died, and I bring her back out of Hell, or try to. The Orpheus myth influenced my poem.
Where in your poem does it say that you are bringing anyone back from Hell?
The whole fucken poem is about that...!
Rocky
2020-05-18 23:28:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by D***@novabbs.i2p
Well, the poem is really about me and someone I know who died, and I bring her back out of Hell, or try to. The Orpheus myth influenced my poem.
Naturally, the phrase "Going to Hell in a handbasket" (itself a variation of "Highway to Hell") sprang to mind.
Doc's poem turns that phrase around, the handbasket is LEAVING Hell....
Will Dockery
2020-05-19 16:36:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Rocky
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by D***@novabbs.i2p
Well, the poem is really about me and someone I know who died, and I bring her back out of Hell, or try to. The Orpheus myth influenced my poem.
Naturally, the phrase "Going to Hell in a handbasket" (itself a variation of "Highway to Hell") sprang to mind.
Doc's poem turns that phrase around, the handbasket is LEAVING Hell....
Yes, most of my favorite writers and influences (Bob Dylan, Jack Kerouac, Harlan Ellison, Lou Reed) take clichés and bend them into new, original forms, as I feel that I managed here.
k***@gmail.com
2020-05-19 17:59:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
The phrase "to hell in a hand basket" was first written down during the American Civil War. A hand basket is basket with a handle that is carried while shopping.
http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-goi1.htm

"Highway to hell" has a similar meaning, but is closer in meaning to the "road to hell," which dates to antiquity. AC/DC used this phrase in a song in 1979.
https://www.songfacts.com › facts › ac-dc › highway-to-hell

So how do ozone, O3, a gas with a sharp smell, and stigmata, wounds or marks that resemble those of the crucified Christ, figure in this poem? It's a nice juxtaposition, but it doesn't seem related to the poem. Is stigmata referring to emotional anguish and ozone invisible?
Michael Pendragon
2020-05-19 18:17:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by k***@gmail.com
The phrase "to hell in a hand basket" was first written down during the American Civil War. A hand basket is basket with a handle that is carried while shopping.
http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-goi1.htm
A common variant of the phrase is "to hell in a hand cart," which is a cart that is pushed by hand. Hand cart works better metaphorically, IMHO.
Post by k***@gmail.com
"Highway to hell" has a similar meaning, but is closer in meaning to the "road to hell," which dates to antiquity. AC/DC used this phrase in a song in 1979.
https://www.songfacts.com › facts › ac-dc › highway-to-hell
Of course "Highway to Hell" is alluding to "the road to Hell." However, we're talking about Will Dockery. The bulk of Will's literary "knowledge" comes from references in comic books and "Star Trek."

I have no doubt that Will was inspired by the AC/DC song.
Post by k***@gmail.com
So how do ozone, O3, a gas with a sharp smell, and stigmata, wounds or marks that resemble those of the crucified Christ, figure in this poem? It's a nice juxtaposition, but it doesn't seem related to the poem. Is stigmata referring to emotional anguish and ozone invisible?
It's a "snappy title." Will likes to write snappy titles.

Will doesn't understand the role of a title in literary composition.
Z***@novabbs.i2p
2020-05-19 22:44:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Michael Pendragon wrote on Tue, 19 May 2020 18:17
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by k***@gmail.com
The phrase "to hell in a hand basket" was first written down during the American Civil War. A hand basket is basket with a handle that is carried while shopping.
http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-goi1.htm
A common variant of the phrase is "to hell in a hand cart," which is a cart that is pushed by hand. Hand cart works better metaphorically, IMHO.
Post by k***@gmail.com
"Highway to hell" has a similar meaning, but is closer in meaning to the "road to hell," which dates to antiquity. AC/DC used this phrase in a song in 1979.
https://www.songfacts.com › facts › ac-dc › highway-to-hell
Of course "Highway to Hell" is alluding to "the road to Hell." However, we're talking about Will Dockery. The bulk of Will's literary "knowledge" comes from references in comic books and "Star Trek."
I have no doubt that Will was inspired by the AC/DC song.
Post by k***@gmail.com
So how do ozone, O3, a gas with a sharp smell, and stigmata, wounds or marks that resemble those of the crucified Christ, figure in this poem? It's a nice juxtaposition, but it doesn't seem related to the poem. Is stigmata referring to emotional anguish and ozone invisible?
It's a "snappy title." Will likes to write snappy titles.
Will doesn't understand the role of a title in literary composition.
Ah, Pendragon, Doc understands much more than you are willing to give him credit for....

But you do love to put words in mouths, don't you.....?
Michael Pendragon
2020-05-20 00:08:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Z***@novabbs.i2p
Michael Pendragon wrote on Tue, 19 May 2020 18:17
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by k***@gmail.com
The phrase "to hell in a hand basket" was first written down during the American Civil War. A hand basket is basket with a handle that is carried while shopping.
http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-goi1.htm
A common variant of the phrase is "to hell in a hand cart," which is a cart that is pushed by hand. Hand cart works better metaphorically, IMHO.
Post by k***@gmail.com
"Highway to hell" has a similar meaning, but is closer in meaning to the "road to hell," which dates to antiquity. AC/DC used this phrase in a song in 1979.
https://www.songfacts.com › facts › ac-dc › highway-to-hell
Of course "Highway to Hell" is alluding to "the road to Hell." However, we're talking about Will Dockery. The bulk of Will's literary "knowledge" comes from references in comic books and "Star Trek."
I have no doubt that Will was inspired by the AC/DC song.
Post by k***@gmail.com
So how do ozone, O3, a gas with a sharp smell, and stigmata, wounds or marks that resemble those of the crucified Christ, figure in this poem? It's a nice juxtaposition, but it doesn't seem related to the poem. Is stigmata referring to emotional anguish and ozone invisible?
It's a "snappy title." Will likes to write snappy titles.
Will doesn't understand the role of a title in literary composition.
Ah, Pendragon, Doc understands much more than you are willing to give him credit for....
But you do love to put words in mouths, don't you.....?
Neither of you understand the basic rules of sentence structure.

It is not an exaggeration to propose that the average ten-year old understands more about poetry composition than both you and Will combined.
Zod
2020-05-26 04:48:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by k***@gmail.com
The phrase "to hell in a hand basket" was first written down during the American Civil War. A hand basket is basket with a handle that is carried while shopping.
http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-goi1.htm
A common variant of the phrase is "to hell in a hand cart," which is a cart that is pushed by hand. Hand cart works better metaphorically, IMHO.
Post by k***@gmail.com
"Highway to hell" has a similar meaning, but is closer in meaning to the "road to hell," which dates to antiquity. AC/DC used this phrase in a song in 1979.
https://www.songfacts.com › facts › ac-dc › highway-to-hell
Of course "Highway to Hell" is alluding to "the road to Hell." However, we're talking about Will Dockery. The bulk of Will's literary "knowledge" comes from references in comic books and "Star Trek."
I have no doubt that Will was inspired by the AC/DC song.
Post by k***@gmail.com
So how do ozone, O3, a gas with a sharp smell, and stigmata, wounds or marks that resemble those of the crucified Christ, figure in this poem? It's a nice juxtaposition, but it doesn't seem related to the poem. Is stigmata referring to emotional anguish and ozone invisible?
It's a "snappy title." Will likes to write snappy titles.
Will doesn't understand the role of a title in literary composition.
You do not know Jack Shit about modern poetry, Pendragon, best just stick to your sappy Pat Boone foolishness.....
Rocky
2020-05-19 22:35:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by k***@gmail.com
The phrase "to hell in a hand basket" was first written down during the American Civil War. A hand basket is basket with a handle that is carried while shopping.
http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-goi1.htm
"Highway to hell" has a similar meaning, but is closer in meaning to the "road to hell," which dates to antiquity. AC/DC used this phrase in a song in 1979.
https://www.songfacts.com › facts › ac-dc › highway-to-hell
So how do ozone, O3, a gas with a sharp smell, and stigmata, wounds or marks that resemble those of the crucified Christ, figure in this poem? It's a nice juxtaposition, but it doesn't seem related to the poem. Is stigmata referring to emotional anguish and ozone invisible?
I think the title was interpreted by some as the hole in the ozone layer in relation to the hands of Christ after crucifixion....

And you are correct about the handbasket, which seems to continue to confuse Pendragon....

Doc "holds the handle".....
Rocky
2020-05-20 21:50:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by k***@gmail.com
The phrase "to hell in a hand basket" was first written down during the American Civil War. A hand basket is basket with a handle that is carried while shopping.
http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-goi1.htm
"Highway to hell" has a similar meaning, but is closer in meaning to the "road to hell," which dates to antiquity. AC/DC used this phrase in a song in 1979.
https://www.songfacts.com › facts › ac-dc › highway-to-hell
So how do ozone, O3, a gas with a sharp smell, and stigmata, wounds or marks that resemble those of the crucified Christ, figure in this poem? It's a nice juxtaposition, but it doesn't seem related to the poem. Is stigmata referring to emotional anguish and ozone invisible?
Interesting facts and trivia....
Zod
2020-05-26 07:01:00 UTC
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Permalink
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vocalese

**********Vocalese is a style or musical genre of jazz singing in which words are added to a soloist's improvisation. [...} to mean any application of a vocally presented lyric based on melodies first recorded by jazz instrumentalists, whether solos -a feat that could only have happened with the advent of recorded sound -the early composers of such lyrics essentially invented a new art form."

"Where scat singing uses nonsense words such as "bap ba dee dot bwee dee" in solos, vocalese uses lyrics set to pre-existing instrumental solos. In a 'first wave' of vocalese creation, this sometimes took the form of a tribute to the original instrumentalist, such as Eddie Jefferson's version of "Body and Soul", which featured lyrics about Coleman Hawkins, whose landmark solo on the tune is globally recognized. The word "vocalese" is a play on the musical term vocalise and the suffix "-ese", meant to indicate a sort of language. The term is attributed to jazz critic Leonard Feather to describe the first Lambert, Hendricks, & Ross album, Sing a Song of Basie....."
Michael Pendragon
2020-05-26 14:19:52 UTC
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Post by Zod
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vocalese
**********Vocalese is a style or musical genre of jazz singing in which words are added to a soloist's improvisation. [...} to mean any application of a vocally presented lyric based on melodies first recorded by jazz instrumentalists, whether solos -a feat that could only have happened with the advent of recorded sound -the early composers of such lyrics essentially invented a new art form."
"Where scat singing uses nonsense words such as "bap ba dee dot bwee dee" in solos, vocalese uses lyrics set to pre-existing instrumental solos. In a 'first wave' of vocalese creation, this sometimes took the form of a tribute to the original instrumentalist, such as Eddie Jefferson's version of "Body and Soul", which featured lyrics about Coleman Hawkins, whose landmark solo on the tune is globally recognized. The word "vocalese" is a play on the musical term vocalise and the suffix "-ese", meant to indicate a sort of language. The term is attributed to jazz critic Leonard Feather to describe the first Lambert, Hendricks, & Ross album, Sing a Song of Basie....."
Ooh, looky! Stink learned a new word today.

Does this have any bearing on Will's poem, or are you just showing off your skill at cutting and pasting?
Zod
2020-05-26 16:52:00 UTC
Reply
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Post by Zod
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vocalese
**********Vocalese is a style or musical genre of jazz singing in which words are added to a soloist's improvisation. [...} to mean any application of a vocally presented lyric based on melodies first recorded by jazz instrumentalists, whether solos -a feat that could only have happened with the advent of recorded sound -the early composers of such lyrics essentially invented a new art form."
"Where scat singing uses nonsense words such as "bap ba dee dot bwee dee" in solos, vocalese uses lyrics set to pre-existing instrumental solos. In a 'first wave' of vocalese creation, this sometimes took the form of a tribute to the original instrumentalist, such as Eddie Jefferson's version of "Body and Soul", which featured lyrics about Coleman Hawkins, whose landmark solo on the tune is globally recognized. The word "vocalese" is a play on the musical term vocalise and the suffix "-ese", meant to indicate a sort of language. The term is attributed to jazz critic Leonard Feather to describe the first Lambert, Hendricks, & Ross album, Sing a Song of Basie....."
Ooh, looky! Sxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Call me General Zod, please, Voodoo Boy.....

T.I.A.
Zod
2020-05-26 20:47:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by Zod
Doc applied the legend to his Shadowville Mythos...
No, he really didn't.
-----------------------------------------------------
https://soundcloud.com/jacksnipe05/ozone-stigmata-second-draft
"Ozone Stigmata" (Will Dockery & Henry Conley) performed by Jack Snipe (all instruments and vocals, except drum machine by Zoom MRS-82). From the upcoming album "Exile in Shadowville".
Unfortunately, your claiming that it was based on the Greek myth doesn't mean that it actually was.
Explain how the narrative of your poem corresponds to that of the Orpheus-Eurydice myth.
Well, true, my poem relates more to my personal mythology than the Orpheus-Eurydice archetypes that inspired it.
Good. We're making progress. In what way did the Orpheus-Eurydice archetypes inspire it?
Evem I know the answer to that, Pendragon..... think about it.......
Really? Point out where Will's poem designates a female soul in Hell
That is what the poem is based on.....
Really? And yet there's nothing in the text of the poem that actually relates it to the Orpheus/Eurydice myth?
You have to be pretending to be this shallow, Voodoo Boy.....
Michael Pendragon
2020-05-27 02:05:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Zod
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by Zod
Doc applied the legend to his Shadowville Mythos...
No, he really didn't.
-----------------------------------------------------
https://soundcloud.com/jacksnipe05/ozone-stigmata-second-draft
"Ozone Stigmata" (Will Dockery & Henry Conley) performed by Jack Snipe (all instruments and vocals, except drum machine by Zoom MRS-82). From the upcoming album "Exile in Shadowville".
Unfortunately, your claiming that it was based on the Greek myth doesn't mean that it actually was.
Explain how the narrative of your poem corresponds to that of the Orpheus-Eurydice myth.
Well, true, my poem relates more to my personal mythology than the Orpheus-Eurydice archetypes that inspired it.
Good. We're making progress. In what way did the Orpheus-Eurydice archetypes inspire it?
Evem I know the answer to that, Pendragon..... think about it.......
Really? Point out where Will's poem designates a female soul in Hell
That is what the poem is based on.....
Really? And yet there's nothing in the text of the poem that actually relates it to the Orpheus/Eurydice myth?
You have to be pretending to be this shallow, Voodoo Boy.....
If you see it, point it out.
Will Dockery
2020-05-24 20:43:42 UTC
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Post by k***@gmail.com
The phrase "to hell in a hand basket" was first written down during the American Civil War. A hand basket is basket with a handle that is carried while shopping.
http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-goi1.htm
"Highway to hell" has a similar meaning, but is closer in meaning to the "road to hell," which dates to antiquity. AC/DC used this phrase in a song in 1979.
https://www.songfacts.com › facts › ac-dc › highway-to-hell
So how do ozone, O3, a gas with a sharp smell, and stigmata, wounds or marks that resemble those of the crucified Christ, figure in this poem? It's a nice juxtaposition, but it doesn't seem related to the poem. Is stigmata referring to emotional anguish and ozone invisible?
Here was a big influence on my actual lyric and vocal melody:



Lonely Planet Boy · New York Dolls

New York Dolls
Released on: 1973-01-01
Producer: Todd Rundgren
Composer Lyricist: Buster Poindexter
Michael Pendragon
2020-05-19 18:05:18 UTC
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Post by Will Dockery
Post by Rocky
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by D***@novabbs.i2p
Well, the poem is really about me and someone I know who died, and I bring her back out of Hell, or try to. The Orpheus myth influenced my poem.
Naturally, the phrase "Going to Hell in a handbasket" (itself a variation of "Highway to Hell") sprang to mind.
Doc's poem turns that phrase around, the handbasket is LEAVING Hell....
Yes, most of my favorite writers and influences (Bob Dylan, Jack Kerouac, Harlan Ellison, Lou Reed) take clichés and bend them into new, original forms, as I feel that I managed here.
That's nice, Will. But how does exiting Hell in a handbasket apply to the Orpheus myth?

Where in your poem does it specifically state that the speaker is escorting a woman's soul out of Hell?

How does Hell equate to the Greek conception of the Underworld?

Dante journeyed through (and out of) Hell. Orpheus did not.
Rocky
2020-05-19 22:37:11 UTC
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Post by Will Dockery
Post by Rocky
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by D***@novabbs.i2p
Well, the poem is really about me and someone I know who died, and I bring her back out of Hell, or try to. The Orpheus myth influenced my poem.
Naturally, the phrase "Going to Hell in a handbasket" (itself a variation of "Highway to Hell") sprang to mind.
Doc's poem turns that phrase around, the handbasket is LEAVING Hell....
Yes, most of my favorite writers and influences (Bob Dylan, Jack Kerouac, Harlan Ellison, Lou Reed) take clichés and bend them into new, original forms, as I feel that I managed here.
Yes, and a handbasket FROM Hell seems quite unique even years after you wrote this one....
Rocky
2020-05-18 17:06:45 UTC
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Voodoo Boy seems lost and confused again....
Z***@novabbs.i2p
2020-05-20 05:19:34 UTC
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Great tune....
Z***@novabbs.i2p
2020-05-20 05:38:00 UTC
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Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by Z***@novabbs.i2p
Michael Pendragon wrote on Tue, 19 May 2020 18:17
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by k***@gmail.com
The phrase "to hell in a hand basket" was first written down during the American Civil War. A hand basket is basket with a handle that is carried while shopping.
http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-goi1.htm
A common variant of the phrase is "to hell in a hand cart," which is a cart that is pushed by hand. Hand cart works better metaphorically, IMHO.
Post by k***@gmail.com
"Highway to hell" has a similar meaning, but is closer in meaning to the "road to hell," which dates to antiquity. AC/DC used this phrase in a song in 1979.
https://www.songfacts.com › facts › ac-dc › highway-to-hell
Of course "Highway to Hell" is alluding to "the road to Hell." However, we're talking about Will Dockery. The bulk of Will's literary "knowledge" comes from references in comic books and "Star Trek."
I have no doubt that Will was inspired by the AC/DC song.
Post by k***@gmail.com
So how do ozone, O3, a gas with a sharp smell, and stigmata, wounds or marks that resemble those of the crucified Christ, figure in this poem? It's a nice juxtaposition, but it doesn't seem related to the poem. Is stigmata referring to emotional anguish and ozone invisible?
It's a "snappy title." Will likes to write snappy titles.
Will doesn't understand the role of a title in literary composition.
Ah, Pendragon, Doc understands much more than you are willing to give him credit for....
But you do love to put words in mouths, don't you.....?
Neither of you understand the basic rules of sentence structure
Poetry does not follow the same rules of structure....
k***@gmail.com
2020-05-20 10:35:57 UTC
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Post by Z***@novabbs.i2p
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by Z***@novabbs.i2p
Michael Pendragon wrote on Tue, 19 May 2020 18:17
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by k***@gmail.com
The phrase "to hell in a hand basket" was first written down during the American Civil War. A hand basket is basket with a handle that is carried while shopping.
http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-goi1.htm
A common variant of the phrase is "to hell in a hand cart," which is a cart that is pushed by hand. Hand cart works better metaphorically, IMHO.
Post by k***@gmail.com
"Highway to hell" has a similar meaning, but is closer in meaning to the "road to hell," which dates to antiquity. AC/DC used this phrase in a song in 1979.
https://www.songfacts.com › facts › ac-dc › highway-to-hell
Of course "Highway to Hell" is alluding to "the road to Hell." However, we're talking about Will Dockery. The bulk of Will's literary "knowledge" comes from references in comic books and "Star Trek."
I have no doubt that Will was inspired by the AC/DC song.
Post by k***@gmail.com
So how do ozone, O3, a gas with a sharp smell, and stigmata, wounds or marks that resemble those of the crucified Christ, figure in this poem? It's a nice juxtaposition, but it doesn't seem related to the poem. Is stigmata referring to emotional anguish and ozone invisible?
It's a "snappy title." Will likes to write snappy titles.
Will doesn't understand the role of a title in literary composition.
Ah, Pendragon, Doc understands much more than you are willing to give him credit for....
But you do love to put words in mouths, don't you.....?
Neither of you understand the basic rules of sentence structure
Poetry does not follow the same rules of structure....
This is a misconception, in my opinion. If a poet chooses to eschew grammar, he'd had better understand it and be aware of how he changes it. Will uses too many disconnected phrases, some of them interesting images.
Zod
2020-05-23 18:45:00 UTC
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Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Z***@novabbs.i2p
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by Z***@novabbs.i2p
Michael Pendragon wrote on Tue, 19 May 2020 18:17
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by k***@gmail.com
The phrase "to hell in a hand basket" was first written down during the American Civil War. A hand basket is basket with a handle that is carried while shopping.
http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-goi1.htm
A common variant of the phrase is "to hell in a hand cart," which is a cart that is pushed by hand. Hand cart works better metaphorically, IMHO.
Post by k***@gmail.com
"Highway to hell" has a similar meaning, but is closer in meaning to the "road to hell," which dates to antiquity. AC/DC used this phrase in a song in 1979.
https://www.songfacts.com › facts › ac-dc › highway-to-hell
Of course "Highway to Hell" is alluding to "the road to Hell." However, we're talking about Will Dockery. The bulk of Will's literary "knowledge" comes from references in comic books and "Star Trek."
I have no doubt that Will was inspired by the AC/DC song.
Post by k***@gmail.com
So how do ozone, O3, a gas with a sharp smell, and stigmata, wounds or marks that resemble those of the crucified Christ, figure in this poem? It's a nice juxtaposition, but it doesn't seem related to the poem. Is stigmata referring to emotional anguish and ozone invisible?
It's a "snappy title." Will likes to write snappy titles.
Will doesn't understand the role of a title in literary composition..
Ah, Pendragon, Doc understands much more than you are willing to give him credit for....
But you do love to put words in mouths, don't you.....?
Neither of you understand the basic rules of sentence structure
Poetry does not follow the same rules of structure....
This is a misconception, in my opinion. If a poet chooses to eschew grammar, he'd had better understand it and be aware of how he changes it. Will uses too many disconnected phrases, some of them interesting images.
That part is true, but a poem is not written in the same form as a normal paragraph, for example....
i***@gmail.com
2020-05-26 05:08:54 UTC
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Post by Will Dockery
"Ozone Stigmata" (Will Dockery & Henry Conley) performed by Jack Snipe
https://soundcloud.com/jacksnipe05/ozone-stigmata-second-draft
"Ozone Stigmata"
On another level
About a thousand years ago-
I tried to hold her
And my heart won't let go.
In countless variations
Just another two old souls.
And this net... net... net...
Don't let go the coat!
On a handbasket from Hell
I hold the handle.
Hand basket from Hell
Both sides of the candle.
Read her note yesterday
The memory made me cry.
I dreamt I got back to her
Over time and over miles.
In this shaky kingdom
My first light that was true...
This light... light... light...
I raise a lantern for you!
Handbasket from Hell,
I tip the conductor.
Handbasket from Hell
I should have sued the doctor.
I can hear you calling
From 10,000 light years away.
And I'd be there with you
But I can't afford to stay.
I remember every hour
8 times a day...
This night... night... night...
The flames are cold and blue.
Handbasket from Hell
All across Christmas.
Handbasket from Hell
I wonder if they missed us...
-Will Dockery (words)
Henry Conley (music)
Excellent work.
Will Dockery
2020-05-26 22:17:39 UTC
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Post by i***@gmail.com
Post by Will Dockery
"Ozone Stigmata" (Will Dockery & Henry Conley) performed by Jack Snipe
https://soundcloud.com/jacksnipe05/ozone-stigmata-second-draft
"Ozone Stigmata"
On another level
About a thousand years ago-
I tried to hold her
And my heart won't let go.
In countless variations
Just another two old souls.
And this net... net... net...
Don't let go the coat!
On a handbasket from Hell
I hold the handle.
Hand basket from Hell
Both sides of the candle.
Read her note yesterday
The memory made me cry.
I dreamt I got back to her
Over time and over miles.
In this shaky kingdom
My first light that was true...
This light... light... light...
I raise a lantern for you!
Handbasket from Hell,
I tip the conductor.
Handbasket from Hell
I should have sued the doctor.
I can hear you calling
From 10,000 light years away.
And I'd be there with you
But I can't afford to stay.
I remember every hour
8 times a day...
This night... night... night...
The flames are cold and blue.
Handbasket from Hell
All across Christmas.
Handbasket from Hell
I wonder if they missed us...
-Will Dockery (words)
Henry Conley (music)
Excellent work.
Thanks, Ilya.

I've been enjoying your recent essays, but refrain from commenting since I try to avoid politics.

;)
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