Discussion:
You've Eaten all the Biscuits / "Julius W"
(too old to reply)
George Dance
2014-01-20 02:01:38 UTC
Permalink
In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Fri, 17 Jan 2014 06:06:39 -0500, Will
A shame you aren't as good a poet as you are troll, isn't it?
One of my favourite trolls was the one in which I induced your BFF
George Dunce to plead with me for the privilege of being allowed to
"publish" some deliberately bad verse that I'd posted under a
pseudonym.
Since neither PJ nor "Julius W" were posting to aapc at the time, regular readers will have no idea what he's talking about. So I think it would be entertaining to let them read what actually happened.

Here's my first post to RAP on the subject. (At the end, it explains what I was doing on RAP, which I'd left a year previously).

<quote>
RONDEAU I : "You've eaten all the biscuits..."
You've eaten all the biscuits! I come back,
tired after eight hours' earning biscuit-money,
dreaming of tastes of cocoa-nut or honey,
you've eaten all the biscuits!
Don't think this day-time feast of yours is funny.
In olden times they'd put you on the rack
for off'ring me no biscuits but a lack
thereof. See, blood, like melted cream, is runny,
and yours is red like jam.... Who wouldn't crack?
You've eaten all the biscuits!
Written by Julius W.
Posted to rec.arts.poems on Friday, 16th April 2010.
No biscuits or women were harmed in the writing of this poem!
Be gentle, please, but be honest.
Honestly, it's technically very well done. The rhymes are all
'natural' -- no inversions, or other strange speech patterns -- and a
couple of them are surprises: rack and runny, for example.

Content-wise, it's just light verse. But so what? It was
entertaining.

It even hit home. I got the idea 'biscuits' were cookies -- I've got
the idea they're called 'biscuits' in England -- and I've been eating
a lot of cookies since I gave up cigarettes 40 or so days ago. We'd be
completely out right now, if not for some helpful Girl Guides who came
to our door earlier in the week.

(BTW, I dnn't read RAP a lot these days. I saw the copy of your sonnet
that Will Dockery crossposted to AAPC, and came over to read more by
you.)
</q>

And my second:

<quote>
On a second read, I don't like 'off'ring', and I don't think it reads
quite right. i'd suggest:

for leaving me not biscuits but a lack
</q>

And here's the third, after I'd gone over the poor boy's work:

<quote>
After multiple readings -- and, yes, your rondeau is worth multiple
readings -- i'd recommend a few other word changes. Rather than talk
about them, i thought i'd just show them to you by putting them all in
one edit;

Rondeau I: "You've eaten all the biscuits!"

You've eaten all the biscuits! I come back,
fatigued from eight hours' earning biscuit-money,
dreaming of tastes of coconut and honey,
to find no biscuits, just an empty pack:
you've eaten all the biscuits!

Don't think this daytime feast of yours is funny.
In olden days they'd put you on the rack
for leaving me not biscuits but a lack
thereof. See, blood, like melted cream, is runny,
and yours is red as jam.... Who wouldn't crack?
You've eaten all the biscuits!

---
Julius W.

As i've told you in emails you may not have seen, i'd like to hear
from you asap. if you see this post, please reply.
</q>

It needed work, but it's far better than anything that PJ posted under his own name in the past 7 years (except for "Hymn to the Virgin", of course).
We've heard a lot less about Dunce the "publisher" since I
inflicted that particular humiliation on him.
The Penny Blog is still going, and I'm still publishing poetry on it. You haven't heard about that? I must not be advertising it enough on aapc.
Eschewing false modesty, I think that the "Julius Wyatt" troll might
have been the second best AAPC troll of all time
Actually, that was not an "AAPC troll" at all; all of that happened on RAP. When "Julius" did later show up on aapc, what happened was that, like any new poster, he got flamed by PJ's toadies, ggamble and ggwyneth.

But that's another story, which aapc readers can read for themselves if they wish:

https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!topic/alt.arts.poetry.comments/Btgqo4W5fl8%5B1-25-false%5D
Will Dockery
2014-01-20 11:58:38 UTC
Permalink
Funny stuff, now I remember the Julius thing, slightly.
George Dance
2014-01-21 03:46:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Will Dockery
Funny stuff, now I remember the Julius thing, slightly.
Here's a bit more; reading through the thread, I found the reason for the "urgent" tone in the emails that PJ keeps talking about. At the time, I was publishing the first issue of /April/ magazine: the online magazine of new poetry that I was posting on the blog on April in honor of National Poetry Month. I thought Julius's work would fit in here:

<quote>
Yes, it is; technically it's near perfect (and can easily be revised
the rest of the way); in content it's funny in a novel way.

At first I wanted it to replace Rutkowski's 'Baguette', which i didn't
think at the time I was going to get. Then, when Rutkowski did let me
use 'Baguette', I thought the rondeau would go perfectly between
'Baguette' and 'The Smoker' -- let the nicotine addict be foreshadowed
by the biscuit addict. Alas, it was not to be.

I still think it's an excellent poem; certainly the best thing PJ's
posted this year.
</q>
Will Dockery
2015-03-20 06:45:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Dance
Post by Will Dockery
Funny stuff, now I remember the Julius thing, slightly.
<quote>
Yes, it is; technically it's near perfect (and can easily be revised
the rest of the way); in content it's funny in a novel way.
At first I wanted it to replace Rutkowski's 'Baguette', which i didn't
think at the time I was going to get. Then, when Rutkowski did let me
use 'Baguette', I thought the rondeau would go perfectly between
'Baguette' and 'The Smoker' -- let the nicotine addict be foreshadowed
by the biscuit addict. Alas, it was not to be.
I still think it's an excellent poem; certainly the best thing PJ's
posted this year.
</q>
Yes, the Deadline crunch.

Having turned in a monthly column (on time) since 1998, I'm well aware of that rush mode that editors go into when the pasteups are coming due.
THE COLONEL
2014-01-20 17:42:35 UTC
Permalink
Exactly what happened last night, I assume. I got home later than usual,
having imbibed a copious amount of martinis. Didn't register at the time,
or I didn't notice. However, when I got up this morning I noted someone had
eaten all the fucking croissants! Damn that person to fucking Hell!

Thank you for allowing this moment of sharing. Have a Pleasance day.
g***@hotmail.com
2014-01-21 03:22:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Dance
It even hit home. I got the idea 'biscuits' were cookies -- I've got
the idea they're called 'biscuits' in England -- and I've been eating
a lot of cookies since I gave up cigarettes 40 or so days ago. We'd be
completely out right now, if not for some helpful Girl Guides who came
to our door earlier in the week.
You're unusually sucky when you're trying to get something from somebody,
aren't you?
George Dance
2014-01-21 03:48:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@hotmail.com
You're unusually sucky when you're trying to get something from somebody,
aren't you?
I believe the word you're looking for is 'friendly'. Yes, as you know, I'm friendly with everyone -- until a person proves to me that he or she isn't worth it.

Now, fuck off.
Peter J Ross
2014-01-21 04:03:23 UTC
Permalink
In alt.arts.poetry.comments on Tue, 21 Jan 2014 03:22:18 GMT,
Post by g***@hotmail.com
Post by George Dance
It even hit home. I got the idea 'biscuits' were cookies -- I've got
the idea they're called 'biscuits' in England -- and I've been eating
a lot of cookies since I gave up cigarettes 40 or so days ago. We'd be
completely out right now, if not for some helpful Girl Guides who came
to our door earlier in the week.
You're unusually sucky when you're trying to get something from somebody,
aren't you?
"Mr. W., I've been trying to reach you on RAP & by email; but you
haven't replied so I don't know if you've seen any of those. I'm
pinging here on the chance that you're now reading AAPC. Please check
your email and get back to me as soon as you can. Thanks."

"As i've told you in emails you may not have seen, i'd like to hear
from you asap. if you see this post, please reply."
--
PJR :-)

ἔστι τις σιῶν τίσις - Alcman
g***@hotmail.com
2014-01-21 04:17:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter J Ross
Post by g***@hotmail.com
You're unusually sucky when you're trying to get something from somebody,
aren't you?
"Mr. W., I've been trying to reach you on RAP & by email; but you
haven't replied so I don't know if you've seen any of those. I'm
pinging here on the chance that you're now reading AAPC. Please check
your email and get back to me as soon as you can. Thanks."
"As i've told you in emails you may not have seen, i'd like to hear
from you asap. if you see this post, please reply."
--
PJR :-)
He does sound rather breathless.

Maybe he was having a nic fit.

Maybe he's always having a nic fit.
George Dance
2014-01-21 04:27:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter J Ross
"Mr. W., I've been trying to reach you on RAP & by email; but you
haven't replied so I don't know if you've seen any of those. I'm
pinging here on the chance that you're now reading AAPC. Please check
your email and get back to me as soon as you can. Thanks."
<quote>
Dear Mr Dance,

I'm not an experienced author, and I've had no previous contact with publishers, so I'm something of a fog about what it is exactly that you're proposing to me. I'd be grateful if you would clarify the following points:

No. 1. Does your publication exist only on the Web, or is there also a printed version?

No. 2. Is any payment involved?

No. 3. If your edited version is published, by you or by any other publisher, how is copyright apportioned between you and me?

I apologise for the lateness of my reply, but I don't have regular access to computers in general or the Web in particular.

Yours sincerely,
Julius Wyatt,
</q>
Will Dockery
2015-03-20 05:28:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Dance
Post by Peter J Ross
"Mr. W., I've been trying to reach you on RAP & by email; but you
haven't replied so I don't know if you've seen any of those. I'm
pinging here on the chance that you're now reading AAPC. Please check
your email and get back to me as soon as you can. Thanks."
<quote>
Dear Mr Dance,
No. 1. Does your publication exist only on the Web, or is there also a printed version?
No. 2. Is any payment involved?
No. 3. If your edited version is published, by you or by any other publisher, how is copyright apportioned between you and me?
I apologise for the lateness of my reply, but I don't have regular access to computers in general or the Web in particular.
Yours sincerely,
Julius Wyatt,
</q>
Well, that sure does look like a letter from Julius Wyatt... and showing that George Dance wanted to publish Julius Wyatt and not PJR (although he was in fact the actual, secret author of the poem and probably this letter), for what any of that's worth, or even worth discussing.
H H
2015-03-20 05:34:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Dance
Post by Peter J Ross
"Mr. W., I've been trying to reach you on RAP & by email; but you
haven't replied so I don't know if you've seen any of those. I'm
pinging here on the chance that you're now reading AAPC. Please check
your email and get back to me as soon as you can. Thanks."
<quote>
Dear Mr Dance,
No. 1. Does your publication exist only on the Web, or is there also a printed version?
No. 2. Is any payment involved?
No. 3. If your edited version is published, by you or by any other publisher, how is copyright apportioned between you and me?
I apologise for the lateness of my reply, but I don't have regular access to computers in general or the Web in particular.
Yours sincerely,
Julius Wyatt,
</q>
wow - how anxious you must have been to publish him not to see this for an
obvious troll!
Will Dockery
2015-03-20 05:47:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by H H
Post by George Dance
Post by Peter J Ross
"Mr. W., I've been trying to reach you on RAP & by email; but you
haven't replied so I don't know if you've seen any of those. I'm
pinging here on the chance that you're now reading AAPC. Please check
your email and get back to me as soon as you can. Thanks."
<quote>
Dear Mr Dance,
No. 1. Does your publication exist only on the Web, or is there also a printed version?
No. 2. Is any payment involved?
No. 3. If your edited version is published, by you or by any other publisher, how is copyright apportioned between you and me?
I apologise for the lateness of my reply, but I don't have regular access to computers in general or the Web in particular.
Yours sincerely,
Julius Wyatt,
</q>
wow - how anxious you must have been to publish him not to see this for an
obvious troll!
I'm not seeing the "obvious troll" part.

The Julius Wyatt character was intended to be a writer inexperienced with publishing and so on, and these seem to be questions that such a novice poet might ask.
Michael Pendragon
2015-03-20 12:59:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Will Dockery
Post by H H
Post by George Dance
Post by Peter J Ross
"Mr. W., I've been trying to reach you on RAP & by email; but you
haven't replied so I don't know if you've seen any of those. I'm
pinging here on the chance that you're now reading AAPC. Please check
your email and get back to me as soon as you can. Thanks."
<quote>
Dear Mr Dance,
No. 1. Does your publication exist only on the Web, or is there also a printed version?
No. 2. Is any payment involved?
No. 3. If your edited version is published, by you or by any other publisher, how is copyright apportioned between you and me?
I apologise for the lateness of my reply, but I don't have regular access to computers in general or the Web in particular.
Yours sincerely,
Julius Wyatt,
</q>
wow - how anxious you must have been to publish him not to see this for an
obvious troll!
I'm not seeing the "obvious troll" part.
The Julius Wyatt character was intended to be a writer inexperienced with publishing and so on, and these seem to be questions that such a novice poet might ask.
"Julius" is a much less obvious troll than "Peter J. Ross." The former admits to being a novice, and his "Biscuits" poem is a step up from the latter's usual claptrap.

What's funny is that Milo would beg such an obvious troll as Peter to join him in the Pig Pen.
Hieronymous707
2015-03-20 13:22:20 UTC
Permalink
What's really funny is that what's-his-name specifically invited that other
what's-his-name to join, but specifically told another what's-his-name that
he couldn't join because he was supposedly a bad person for some reason
or other. I thought all of that was really very funny. It might even have been
hilarious, except that I don't remember levels of funny as well as I used to.
Will Dockery
2015-03-20 13:40:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hieronymous707
What's really funny is that what's-his-name specifically invited that other
what's-his-name to join, but specifically told another what's-his-name that
he couldn't join because he was supposedly a bad person for some reason
or other. I thought all of that was really very funny. It might even have been
hilarious, except that I don't remember levels of funny as well as I used to.
I remember some of that, myself, mostly the laughter.

:D
Hieronymous707
2015-03-20 14:04:18 UTC
Permalink
Funny, I don't remember you laughing. I remember us
talking, and I remember you singing with your friends,
but I have no recollection of you laughing at all.
Michael Pendragon
2015-03-20 14:05:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Will Dockery
Post by Hieronymous707
What's really funny is that what's-his-name specifically invited that other
what's-his-name to join, but specifically told another what's-his-name that
he couldn't join because he was supposedly a bad person for some reason
or other. I thought all of that was really very funny. It might even have been
hilarious, except that I don't remember levels of funny as well as I used to.
I remember some of that, myself, mostly the laughter.
Yeah, it's coming back to me, too. I seem to recall what's-his-name barring at least three other what's-his-names from the former's whatchamacallit-Pen ... which none of the latter three what's-his-names ever wanted to join in the first place. But the punchline was that the what's-his-name that what's-his-name had been begging didn't want to join the whatchamacallit-Pen either.

I wonder if I've been barred from the whatchamacallit-Pen yet. Hey Yappy Lapdog! What's my membership eligibility status???
George Dance
2015-03-20 10:16:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by H H
Post by George Dance
Post by Peter J Ross
"Mr. W., I've been trying to reach you on RAP & by email; but you
haven't replied so I don't know if you've seen any of those. I'm
pinging here on the chance that you're now reading AAPC. Please check
your email and get back to me as soon as you can. Thanks."
<quote>
Dear Mr Dance,
No. 1. Does your publication exist only on the Web, or is there also a printed version?
No. 2. Is any payment involved?
No. 3. If your edited version is published, by you or by any other publisher, how is copyright apportioned between you and me?
I apologise for the lateness of my reply, but I don't have regular access to computers in general or the Web in particular.
Yours sincerely,
Julius Wyatt,
</q>
wow - how anxious you must have been to publish him not to see this for an
obvious troll!
Will Dockery
2014-01-24 15:17:36 UTC
Permalink
"George Dance" wrote in message news:7a67c5a2-f544-4d0b-b3fe-
RONDEAU I : "You've eaten all the biscuits..."
You've eaten all the biscuits! I come back,
tired after eight hours' earning biscuit-money,
dreaming of tastes of cocoa-nut or honey,
you've eaten all the biscuits!
Don't think this day-time feast of yours is funny.
In olden times they'd put you on the rack
for off'ring me no biscuits but a lack
thereof. See, blood, like melted cream, is runny,
and yours is red like jam.... Who wouldn't crack?
You've eaten all the biscuits!
Written by Julius W.
"If you don't eat your biscuits, you can't have any pudding. how can you.
Have any pudding if you don't eat your biscuits?"
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