Discussion:
Apple Montage / a poem by Will Dockery
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Will Dockery
2017-09-30 15:18:01 UTC
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Apple Montage

Sneaking around
with Cousin Jenny,
smoking menthol
beyond the sheds.

Late summer vacation 1973
in the backwoods of Tennessee.

To the right
behind the barn
were apple trees.

There were several
of those trees
and other trees
behind them
beyond a field
and behind them, other trees.

Later, I stood near
as a crowd
watched Pops and my Uncle
cooking apple butter;
stirring the brown gunk,
boiling in a huge black kettle.

I saw my father
secretly pass
a wine bottle
to my Uncle Clarence.

I went from
breathing cold mist
out back behind the barn,
to breathing
the hot misty steam.

The air smelled of apple fumes
and strong booze.

-Will Dockery
drive-by
2017-09-30 15:30:22 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Will Dockery
Apple Montage
Sneaking around
with Cousin Jenny,
smoking menthol
beyond the sheds.
Late summer vacation 1973
in the backwoods of Tennessee.
To the right
behind the barn
were apple trees.
There were several
of those trees
and other trees
behind them
beyond a field
and behind them, other trees.
Later, I stood near
as a crowd
watched Pops and my Uncle
cooking apple butter;
stirring the brown gunk,
boiling in a huge black kettle.
I saw my father
secretly pass
a wine bottle
to my Uncle Clarence.
I went from
breathing cold mist
out back behind the barn,
to breathing
the hot misty steam.
The air smelled of apple fumes
and strong booze.
-Will Dockery
Too many 'Uncles' Drop 'and my Uncle' 5th stanza....cut, print...or keep the original. Many things can fall to the cutting room floor, without destroying the message..in this case, the viewpoint of a young Will..

J
Will Dockery
2017-09-30 15:36:04 UTC
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Permalink
Post by drive-by
Post by Will Dockery
Apple Montage
Sneaking around
with Cousin Jenny,
smoking menthol
beyond the sheds.
Late summer vacation 1973
in the backwoods of Tennessee.
To the right
behind the barn
were apple trees.
There were several
of those trees
and other trees
behind them
beyond a field
and behind them, other trees.
Later, I stood near
as a crowd
watched Pops and my Uncle
cooking apple butter;
stirring the brown gunk,
boiling in a huge black kettle.
I saw my father
secretly pass
a wine bottle
to my Uncle Clarence.
I went from
breathing cold mist
out back behind the barn,
to breathing
the hot misty steam.
The air smelled of apple fumes
and strong booze.
-Will Dockery
Too many 'Uncles' Drop 'and my Uncle' 5th stanza....cut, print...or keep the original. Many things can fall to the cutting room floor, without destroying the message..in this case, the viewpoint of a young Will..
J
Yes, I'm seeing that... too much exposition that the reader can find on his own if he has the interest, as it should be with poetry.

The original, for comparison:

Apple Montage

I was sneaking around
smoking menthol
among the sheds.

Late summer vacation 1973
in the backwoods of Tennessee.

I stood near
as a crowd
watched my father and Uncle.

They were cooking apple butter
stirring the brown gunk
boiling in a huge black kettle.

I saw my father
secretly pass
a wine bottle
to my Uncle Clarence.

Breathing cold mist
out back behind the barn
then to be breathing
the hot misty steam
.
To the right
behind the barn
were apple trees.

There were several
of these trees.
And other trees
behind those trees
past a field.

The air smelled of apple fumes
and strong booze.

-Will Dockery

.
drive-by
2017-09-30 15:54:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Will Dockery
Post by drive-by
Post by Will Dockery
Apple Montage
Sneaking around
with Cousin Jenny,
smoking menthol
beyond the sheds.
Late summer vacation 1973
in the backwoods of Tennessee.
To the right
behind the barn
were apple trees.
There were several
of those trees
and other trees
behind them
beyond a field
and behind them, other trees.
Later, I stood near
as a crowd
watched Pops and my Uncle
cooking apple butter;
stirring the brown gunk,
boiling in a huge black kettle.
I saw my father
secretly pass
a wine bottle
to my Uncle Clarence.
I went from
breathing cold mist
out back behind the barn,
to breathing
the hot misty steam.
The air smelled of apple fumes
and strong booze.
-Will Dockery
Too many 'Uncles' Drop 'and my Uncle' 5th stanza....cut, print...or keep the original. Many things can fall to the cutting room floor, without destroying the message..in this case, the viewpoint of a young Will..
J
Yes, I'm seeing that... too much exposition that the reader can find on his own if he has the interest, as it should be with poetry.
Apple Montage
I was sneaking around
smoking menthol
among the sheds.
Late summer vacation 1973
in the backwoods of Tennessee.
I stood near
as a crowd
watched my father and Uncle.
They were cooking apple butter
stirring the brown gunk
boiling in a huge black kettle.
I saw my father
secretly pass
a wine bottle
to my Uncle Clarence.
Breathing cold mist
out back behind the barn
then to be breathing
the hot misty steam
.
To the right
behind the barn
were apple trees.
There were several
of these trees.
And other trees
behind those trees
past a field.
The air smelled of apple fumes
and strong booze.
-Will Dockery
.
Well...you decide. You've got my opinion..from the first time discussed.

Your recollection is short and sweet, no need to tell us how many bears were hiding in the trees you mention. I try read as someone outside this group, and found your poem a simple memory, with no need for explanation beyond what you wrote.. Move on to 'Magic' keeping as tight.

Jim
Will Dockery
2017-09-30 16:22:13 UTC
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Permalink
Post by drive-by
Post by Will Dockery
Post by drive-by
Post by Will Dockery
Apple Montage
Sneaking around
with Cousin Jenny,
smoking menthol
beyond the sheds.
Late summer vacation 1973
in the backwoods of Tennessee.
To the right
behind the barn
were apple trees.
There were several
of those trees
and other trees
behind them
beyond a field
and behind them, other trees.
Later, I stood near
as a crowd
watched Pops and my Uncle
cooking apple butter;
stirring the brown gunk,
boiling in a huge black kettle.
I saw my father
secretly pass
a wine bottle
to my Uncle Clarence.
I went from
breathing cold mist
out back behind the barn,
to breathing
the hot misty steam.
The air smelled of apple fumes
and strong booze.
-Will Dockery
Too many 'Uncles' Drop 'and my Uncle' 5th stanza....cut, print...or keep the original. Many things can fall to the cutting room floor, without destroying the message..in this case, the viewpoint of a young Will..
J
Yes, I'm seeing that... too much exposition that the reader can find on his own if he has the interest, as it should be with poetry.
Apple Montage
I was sneaking around
smoking menthol
among the sheds.
Late summer vacation 1973
in the backwoods of Tennessee.
I stood near
as a crowd
watched my father and Uncle.
They were cooking apple butter
stirring the brown gunk
boiling in a huge black kettle.
I saw my father
secretly pass
a wine bottle
to my Uncle Clarence.
Breathing cold mist
out back behind the barn
then to be breathing
the hot misty steam
.
To the right
behind the barn
were apple trees.
There were several
of these trees.
And other trees
behind those trees
past a field.
The air smelled of apple fumes
and strong booze.
-Will Dockery
.
Well...you decide. You've got my opinion..from the first time discussed.
Your recollection is short and sweet, no need to tell us how many bears were hiding in the trees you mention. I try read as someone outside this group, and found your poem a simple memory, with no need for explanation beyond what you wrote.. Move on to 'Magic' keeping as tight.
Jim
Yes, the more I look at it, the more the naming of names distracts...
drive-by
2017-09-30 16:26:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Will Dockery
Post by drive-by
Post by Will Dockery
Post by drive-by
Post by Will Dockery
Apple Montage
Sneaking around
with Cousin Jenny,
smoking menthol
beyond the sheds.
Late summer vacation 1973
in the backwoods of Tennessee.
To the right
behind the barn
were apple trees.
There were several
of those trees
and other trees
behind them
beyond a field
and behind them, other trees.
Later, I stood near
as a crowd
watched Pops and my Uncle
cooking apple butter;
stirring the brown gunk,
boiling in a huge black kettle.
I saw my father
secretly pass
a wine bottle
to my Uncle Clarence.
I went from
breathing cold mist
out back behind the barn,
to breathing
the hot misty steam.
The air smelled of apple fumes
and strong booze.
-Will Dockery
Too many 'Uncles' Drop 'and my Uncle' 5th stanza....cut, print...or keep the original. Many things can fall to the cutting room floor, without destroying the message..in this case, the viewpoint of a young Will..
J
Yes, I'm seeing that... too much exposition that the reader can find on his own if he has the interest, as it should be with poetry.
Apple Montage
I was sneaking around
smoking menthol
among the sheds.
Late summer vacation 1973
in the backwoods of Tennessee.
I stood near
as a crowd
watched my father and Uncle.
They were cooking apple butter
stirring the brown gunk
boiling in a huge black kettle.
I saw my father
secretly pass
a wine bottle
to my Uncle Clarence.
Breathing cold mist
out back behind the barn
then to be breathing
the hot misty steam
.
To the right
behind the barn
were apple trees.
There were several
of these trees.
And other trees
behind those trees
past a field.
The air smelled of apple fumes
and strong booze.
-Will Dockery
.
Well...you decide. You've got my opinion..from the first time discussed.
Your recollection is short and sweet, no need to tell us how many bears were hiding in the trees you mention. I try read as someone outside this group, and found your poem a simple memory, with no need for explanation beyond what you wrote.. Move on to 'Magic' keeping as tight.
Jim
Yes, the more I look at it, the more the naming of names distracts...
Clutters, I would call it.
George Dance
2017-09-30 17:11:32 UTC
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Permalink
Post by drive-by
Post by Will Dockery
Apple Montage
Sneaking around
with Cousin Jenny,
smoking menthol
beyond the sheds.
Late summer vacation 1973
in the backwoods of Tennessee.
To the right
behind the barn
were apple trees.
There were several
of those trees
and other trees
behind them
beyond a field
and behind them, other trees.
Later, I stood near
as a crowd
watched Pops and my Uncle
cooking apple butter;
stirring the brown gunk,
boiling in a huge black kettle.
I saw my father
secretly pass
a wine bottle
to my Uncle Clarence.
I went from
breathing cold mist
out back behind the barn,
to breathing
the hot misty steam.
The air smelled of apple fumes
and strong booze.
-Will Dockery
Too many 'Uncles' Drop 'and my Uncle' 5th stanza....
One way to cut that "uncle" yet keep him there is to say, "we stood near ... watched our fathers."
Post by drive-by
cut, print...or keep the original. Many things can fall to the cutting room floor, without destroying the message..in this case, the viewpoint of a young Will..
J
George Dance
2017-09-30 17:14:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by George Dance
Post by drive-by
Post by Will Dockery
Apple Montage
Sneaking around
with Cousin Jenny,
smoking menthol
beyond the sheds.
Late summer vacation 1973
in the backwoods of Tennessee.
To the right
behind the barn
were apple trees.
There were several
of those trees
and other trees
behind them
beyond a field
and behind them, other trees.
Later, I stood near
as a crowd
watched Pops and my Uncle
cooking apple butter;
stirring the brown gunk,
boiling in a huge black kettle.
I saw my father
secretly pass
a wine bottle
to my Uncle Clarence.
I went from
breathing cold mist
out back behind the barn,
to breathing
the hot misty steam.
The air smelled of apple fumes
and strong booze.
-Will Dockery
Too many 'Uncles' Drop 'and my Uncle' 5th stanza....
One way to cut that "uncle" yet keep him there is to say, "we stood near ... watched our fathers."
But I like "Pops" - in fact, I like the whole thing now. So, if you make the above change, I'd also recommend: "I saw Pops / pass a wine bottle" in S6.
Post by George Dance
Post by drive-by
cut, print...or keep the original. Many things can fall to the cutting room floor, without destroying the message..in this case, the viewpoint of a young Will..
J
Will Dockery
2017-09-30 18:26:23 UTC
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Permalink
Post by George Dance
Post by drive-by
Post by Will Dockery
Apple Montage
Sneaking around
with Cousin Jenny,
smoking menthol
beyond the sheds.
Late summer vacation 1973
in the backwoods of Tennessee.
To the right
behind the barn
were apple trees.
There were several
of those trees
and other trees
behind them
beyond a field
and behind them, other trees.
Later, I stood near
as a crowd
watched Pops and my Uncle
cooking apple butter;
stirring the brown gunk,
boiling in a huge black kettle.
I saw my father
secretly pass
a wine bottle
to my Uncle Clarence.
I went from
breathing cold mist
out back behind the barn,
to breathing
the hot misty steam.
The air smelled of apple fumes
and strong booze.
-Will Dockery
Too many 'Uncles' Drop 'and my Uncle' 5th stanza....
One way to cut that "uncle" yet keep him there is to say, "we stood near ... watched our fathers."
It gets more complicated the more the picture goes from impressionism to realist... Jenny's father is actually Uncle Fred, brother of Clarence.

And one reason the wine (and why it was wine they were drinking) is that my uncle was also Reverend Clarence Whitley. I have written about him here, but I don't think in any poetry yet:

=========================================================

This is interesting, the obituary of my uncle, Reverend Clarence Whitley,
from the Daytona Beach Sunday News-Journal - Nov 26, 1980.

https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=bPowAAAAIBAJ&sjid=O-AFAAAAIBAJ&pg=1397%2C5413418

Also, I see my mother was listed, "...a sister, Mrs. (Kelly) Dockery, a
frequent visitor from Columbus, Georgia."

And so it goes.

=====================================================

Uncle Clarence would journey up from Florida every year, and make the rounds visiting family and friends, which often built into some large gatherings.
Post by George Dance
Post by drive-by
cut, print...or keep the original. Many things can fall to the cutting room floor, without destroying the message..in this case, the viewpoint of a young Will..
J
George Dance
2017-09-30 23:16:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
Post by drive-by
Post by Will Dockery
Apple Montage
Sneaking around
with Cousin Jenny,
smoking menthol
beyond the sheds.
Late summer vacation 1973
in the backwoods of Tennessee.
To the right
behind the barn
were apple trees.
There were several
of those trees
and other trees
behind them
beyond a field
and behind them, other trees.
Later, I stood near
as a crowd
watched Pops and my Uncle
cooking apple butter;
stirring the brown gunk,
boiling in a huge black kettle.
I saw my father
secretly pass
a wine bottle
to my Uncle Clarence.
I went from
breathing cold mist
out back behind the barn,
to breathing
the hot misty steam.
The air smelled of apple fumes
and strong booze.
-Will Dockery
Too many 'Uncles' Drop 'and my Uncle' 5th stanza....
One way to cut that "uncle" yet keep him there is to say, "we stood near ... watched our fathers."
It gets more complicated the more the picture goes from impressionism to realist... Jenny's father is actually Uncle Fred, brother of Clarence.
Then you can't use "our fathers" - fair enough.
Post by Will Dockery
=========================================================
This is interesting, the obituary of my uncle, Reverend Clarence Whitley,
from the Daytona Beach Sunday News-Journal - Nov 26, 1980.
https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=bPowAAAAIBAJ&sjid=O-AFAAAAIBAJ&pg=1397%2C5413418
Also, I see my mother was listed, "...a sister, Mrs. (Kelly) Dockery, a
frequent visitor from Columbus, Georgia."
And so it goes.
=====================================================
Uncle Clarence would journey up from Florida every year, and make the rounds visiting family and friends, which often built into some large gatherings.
Post by George Dance
Post by drive-by
cut, print...or keep the original. Many things can fall to the cutting room floor, without destroying the message..in this case, the viewpoint of a young Will..
J
Rachel
2017-10-01 04:40:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by George Dance
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
Post by drive-by
Post by Will Dockery
Apple Montage
Sneaking around
with Cousin Jenny,
smoking menthol
beyond the sheds.
Late summer vacation 1973
in the backwoods of Tennessee.
To the right
behind the barn
were apple trees.
There were several
of those trees
and other trees
behind them
beyond a field
and behind them, other trees.
Later, I stood near
as a crowd
watched Pops and my Uncle
cooking apple butter;
stirring the brown gunk,
boiling in a huge black kettle.
I saw my father
secretly pass
a wine bottle
to my Uncle Clarence.
I went from
breathing cold mist
out back behind the barn,
to breathing
the hot misty steam.
The air smelled of apple fumes
and strong booze.
-Will Dockery
Too many 'Uncles' Drop 'and my Uncle' 5th stanza....
One way to cut that "uncle" yet keep him there is to say, "we stood near ... watched our fathers."
It gets more complicated the more the picture goes from impressionism to realist... Jenny's father is actually Uncle Fred, brother of Clarence.
Then you can't use "our fathers" - fair enough.
Post by Will Dockery
=========================================================
This is interesting, the obituary of my uncle, Reverend Clarence Whitley,
from the Daytona Beach Sunday News-Journal - Nov 26, 1980.
https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=bPowAAAAIBAJ&sjid=O-AFAAAAIBAJ&pg=1397%2C5413418
Also, I see my mother was listed, "...a sister, Mrs. (Kelly) Dockery, a
frequent visitor from Columbus, Georgia."
And so it goes.
=====================================================
Uncle Clarence would journey up from Florida every year, and make the rounds visiting family and friends, which often built into some large gatherings.
Post by George Dance
Post by drive-by
cut, print...or keep the original. Many things can fall to the cutting room floor, without destroying the message..in this case, the viewpoint of a young Will..
J
our fathers

who arts in heaven

...

GENIUS !!!

(like me)
Will Dockery
2017-10-01 04:44:23 UTC
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They have both passed... miss them both.
Will Dockery
2017-10-01 06:48:57 UTC
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Permalink
Post by George Dance
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
Post by drive-by
Post by Will Dockery
Apple Montage
Sneaking around
with Cousin Jenny,
smoking menthol
beyond the sheds.
Late summer vacation 1973
in the backwoods of Tennessee.
To the right
behind the barn
were apple trees.
There were several
of those trees
and other trees
behind them
beyond a field
and behind them, other trees.
Later, I stood near
as a crowd
watched Pops and my Uncle
cooking apple butter;
stirring the brown gunk,
boiling in a huge black kettle.
I saw my father
secretly pass
a wine bottle
to my Uncle Clarence.
I went from
breathing cold mist
out back behind the barn,
to breathing
the hot misty steam.
The air smelled of apple fumes
and strong booze.
-Will Dockery
Too many 'Uncles' Drop 'and my Uncle' 5th stanza....
One way to cut that "uncle" yet keep him there is to say, "we stood near ... watched our fathers."
It gets more complicated the more the picture goes from impressionism to realist... Jenny's father is actually Uncle Fred, brother of Clarence.
Then you can't use "our fathers" - fair enough.
Yes... I am thinking of either taking the names out again, or Jack Kerouacing it, and giving the characters made up names.

Any thought son the pros and cons of this move, George, or anyone?

I don't want to disturb family with having their loved ones exposed in a beatnik poem... although I feel I do honor them all.
Post by George Dance
Post by Will Dockery
=========================================================
This is interesting, the obituary of my uncle, Reverend Clarence Whitley,
from the Daytona Beach Sunday News-Journal - Nov 26, 1980.
https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=bPowAAAAIBAJ&sjid=O-AFAAAAIBAJ&pg=1397%2C5413418
Also, I see my mother was listed, "...a sister, Mrs. (Kelly) Dockery, a
frequent visitor from Columbus, Georgia."
And so it goes.
=====================================================
Uncle Clarence would journey up from Florida every year, and make the rounds visiting family and friends, which often built into some large gatherings.
Post by George Dance
Post by drive-by
cut, print...or keep the original. Many things can fall to the cutting room floor, without destroying the message..in this case, the viewpoint of a young Will..
J
George Dance
2017-10-01 12:03:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
Post by drive-by
Post by Will Dockery
Apple Montage
Sneaking around
with Cousin Jenny,
smoking menthol
beyond the sheds.
Late summer vacation 1973
in the backwoods of Tennessee.
To the right
behind the barn
were apple trees.
There were several
of those trees
and other trees
behind them
beyond a field
and behind them, other trees.
Later, I stood near
as a crowd
watched Pops and my Uncle
cooking apple butter;
stirring the brown gunk,
boiling in a huge black kettle.
I saw my father
secretly pass
a wine bottle
to my Uncle Clarence.
I went from
breathing cold mist
out back behind the barn,
to breathing
the hot misty steam.
The air smelled of apple fumes
and strong booze.
-Will Dockery
Too many 'Uncles' Drop 'and my Uncle' 5th stanza....
One way to cut that "uncle" yet keep him there is to say, "we stood near ... watched our fathers."
It gets more complicated the more the picture goes from impressionism to realist... Jenny's father is actually Uncle Fred, brother of Clarence.
Then you can't use "our fathers" - fair enough.
Yes... I am thinking of either taking the names out again, or Jack Kerouacing it, and giving the characters made up names.
Any thought son the pros and cons of this move, George,
'Kerouacing it' - you can't Kerouac your father, but if you think anyone else'll be embarrassed. I'm sure Rev. Whitley wouldn't be embarrassed about being caught drinking on the sly, but his children might. At the same time, imagine Kerouac bringing in a character and not naming him - these relatives of yours are characters in your mythos.
Post by Will Dockery
or anyone?
Yeah. I'm not trying to monopolize the discussion.
Post by Will Dockery
I don't want to disturb family with having their loved ones exposed in a beatnik poem... although I feel I do honor them all.
Post by George Dance
Post by Will Dockery
=========================================================
This is interesting, the obituary of my uncle, Reverend Clarence Whitley,
from the Daytona Beach Sunday News-Journal - Nov 26, 1980.
https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=bPowAAAAIBAJ&sjid=O-AFAAAAIBAJ&pg=1397%2C5413418
Also, I see my mother was listed, "...a sister, Mrs. (Kelly) Dockery, a
frequent visitor from Columbus, Georgia."
And so it goes.
=====================================================
Uncle Clarence would journey up from Florida every year, and make the rounds visiting family and friends, which often built into some large gatherings.
Post by George Dance
Post by drive-by
cut, print...or keep the original. Many things can fall to the cutting room floor, without destroying the message..in this case, the viewpoint of a young Will..
J
Will Dockery
2017-10-01 15:07:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by George Dance
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
Post by drive-by
Post by Will Dockery
Apple Montage
Sneaking around
with Cousin Jenny,
smoking menthol
beyond the sheds.
Late summer vacation 1973
in the backwoods of Tennessee.
To the right
behind the barn
were apple trees.
There were several
of those trees
and other trees
behind them
beyond a field
and behind them, other trees.
Later, I stood near
as a crowd
watched Pops and my Uncle
cooking apple butter;
stirring the brown gunk,
boiling in a huge black kettle.
I saw my father
secretly pass
a wine bottle
to my Uncle Clarence.
I went from
breathing cold mist
out back behind the barn,
to breathing
the hot misty steam.
The air smelled of apple fumes
and strong booze.
-Will Dockery
Too many 'Uncles' Drop 'and my Uncle' 5th stanza....
One way to cut that "uncle" yet keep him there is to say, "we stood near ... watched our fathers."
It gets more complicated the more the picture goes from impressionism to realist... Jenny's father is actually Uncle Fred, brother of Clarence.
Then you can't use "our fathers" - fair enough.
Yes... I am thinking of either taking the names out again, or Jack Kerouacing it, and giving the characters made up names.
Any thought son the pros and cons of this move, George,
'Kerouacing it' - you can't Kerouac your father, but if you think anyone else'll be embarrassed. I'm sure Rev. Whitley wouldn't be embarrassed about being caught drinking on the sly, but his children might. At the same time, imagine Kerouac bringing in a character and not naming him - these relatives of yours are characters in your mythos.
Well, Kerouac did make his mother his "Aunt" in On The Road:

http://www.beatdom.com/the-beat-generation/whos-who-a-guide-to-kerouacs-characters/

Gabrielle Kerouac

Bio:
Kerouac’s mother. She remained a huge influence on his life, living with him for much of his adulthood.

Aliases:
Doctor Sax – Ange
On the Road – Sal’s Aunt
The Town and the City – Marguerite Martin
Vanity of Duluoz – Ange

But mostly you are correct.

In Visions Of Gerard his father became "Emil":

http://beat_literature.enacademic.com/165/Visions_of_Gerard

his father, Emil, takes second place of importance. Emil has business and health problems and must also endure watching his firstborn slowly die. Kerouac must acknowledge that the realities of making a living and of backbreaking work are quite real. Emil is portrayed as capable of being a “tragic philosopher,” and this quality of mind links him to Gerard. Emil escapes from the death watch in his home on the pretext that he has extra work to do with his assistant Manuel. The two men hit the road in Manuel’s sidecar motorcycle and end up playing cards with some old vaudevillians in downtown Lowell. Legend has it in the Kerouac family that Leo Kerouac met W. C. Fields a time or two and that they played poker together [...] After he and Emil get drunk, Bull reflects Kerouac’s Buddhist philosophy by saying, “It’s a dream, lads, it’s a dream.”
===================================================

Leo Kerouac

Bio:
Kerouac’s father died in 1946, and shortly after this, Kerouac sat down and wrote The Town & The City. He promised his dying father that he would always look after his mother.

Aliases:
Doctor Sax – Emil “Pop” Duluoz
Maggie Cassidy – Emil “Pop” Duluoz
The Town and the City – George Martin
Vanity of Duluoz – Emil “Pop” Duluoz
Visions of Gerard – Emil “Pop” Duluoz
Post by George Dance
Post by Will Dockery
or anyone?
Yeah. I'm not trying to monopolize the discussion.
No problem with me on that, any and all feedback on this is of great interest and help for me, I'm going to get this poem polished, yet retain the raw power, if possible.
Post by George Dance
Post by Will Dockery
I don't want to disturb family with having their loved ones exposed in a beatnik poem... although I feel I do honor them all.
Post by George Dance
Post by Will Dockery
=========================================================
This is interesting, the obituary of my uncle, Reverend Clarence Whitley,
from the Daytona Beach Sunday News-Journal - Nov 26, 1980.
https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=bPowAAAAIBAJ&sjid=O-AFAAAAIBAJ&pg=1397%2C5413418
Also, I see my mother was listed, "...a sister, Mrs. (Kelly) Dockery, a
frequent visitor from Columbus, Georgia."
And so it goes.
=====================================================
Uncle Clarence would journey up from Florida every year, and make the rounds visiting family and friends, which often built into some large gatherings.
Post by George Dance
Post by drive-by
cut, print...or keep the original. Many things can fall to the cutting room floor, without destroying the message..in this case, the viewpoint of a young Will..
I think I am maintaining that integrity in the poem...
drive-by
2017-10-01 15:18:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
Post by drive-by
Post by Will Dockery
Apple Montage
Sneaking around
with Cousin Jenny,
smoking menthol
beyond the sheds.
Late summer vacation 1973
in the backwoods of Tennessee.
To the right
behind the barn
were apple trees.
There were several
of those trees
and other trees
behind them
beyond a field
and behind them, other trees.
Later, I stood near
as a crowd
watched Pops and my Uncle
cooking apple butter;
stirring the brown gunk,
boiling in a huge black kettle.
I saw my father
secretly pass
a wine bottle
to my Uncle Clarence.
I went from
breathing cold mist
out back behind the barn,
to breathing
the hot misty steam.
The air smelled of apple fumes
and strong booze.
-Will Dockery
Too many 'Uncles' Drop 'and my Uncle' 5th stanza....
One way to cut that "uncle" yet keep him there is to say, "we stood near ... watched our fathers."
It gets more complicated the more the picture goes from impressionism to realist... Jenny's father is actually Uncle Fred, brother of Clarence.
Then you can't use "our fathers" - fair enough.
Yes... I am thinking of either taking the names out again, or Jack Kerouacing it, and giving the characters made up names.
Any thought son the pros and cons of this move, George,
'Kerouacing it' - you can't Kerouac your father, but if you think anyone else'll be embarrassed. I'm sure Rev. Whitley wouldn't be embarrassed about being caught drinking on the sly, but his children might. At the same time, imagine Kerouac bringing in a character and not naming him - these relatives of yours are characters in your mythos.
http://www.beatdom.com/the-beat-generation/whos-who-a-guide-to-kerouacs-characters/
Gabrielle Kerouac
Kerouac’s mother. She remained a huge influence on his life, living with him for much of his adulthood.
Doctor Sax – Ange
On the Road – Sal’s Aunt
The Town and the City – Marguerite Martin
Vanity of Duluoz – Ange
But mostly you are correct.
http://beat_literature.enacademic.com/165/Visions_of_Gerard
his father, Emil, takes second place of importance. Emil has business and health problems and must also endure watching his firstborn slowly die. Kerouac must acknowledge that the realities of making a living and of backbreaking work are quite real. Emil is portrayed as capable of being a “tragic philosopher,” and this quality of mind links him to Gerard. Emil escapes from the death watch in his home on the pretext that he has extra work to do with his assistant Manuel. The two men hit the road in Manuel’s sidecar motorcycle and end up playing cards with some old vaudevillians in downtown Lowell. Legend has it in the Kerouac family that Leo Kerouac met W. C. Fields a time or two and that they played poker together [...] After he and Emil get drunk, Bull reflects Kerouac’s Buddhist philosophy by saying, “It’s a dream, lads, it’s a dream.”
===================================================
Leo Kerouac
Kerouac’s father died in 1946, and shortly after this, Kerouac sat down and wrote The Town & The City. He promised his dying father that he would always look after his mother.
Doctor Sax – Emil “Pop” Duluoz
Maggie Cassidy – Emil “Pop” Duluoz
The Town and the City – George Martin
Vanity of Duluoz – Emil “Pop” Duluoz
Visions of Gerard – Emil “Pop” Duluoz
Post by George Dance
Post by Will Dockery
or anyone?
Yeah. I'm not trying to monopolize the discussion.
No problem with me on that, any and all feedback on this is of great interest and help for me, I'm going to get this poem polished, yet retain the raw power, if possible.
Post by George Dance
Post by Will Dockery
I don't want to disturb family with having their loved ones exposed in a beatnik poem... although I feel I do honor them all.
Post by George Dance
Post by Will Dockery
=========================================================
This is interesting, the obituary of my uncle, Reverend Clarence Whitley,
from the Daytona Beach Sunday News-Journal - Nov 26, 1980.
https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=bPowAAAAIBAJ&sjid=O-AFAAAAIBAJ&pg=1397%2C5413418
Also, I see my mother was listed, "...a sister, Mrs. (Kelly) Dockery, a
frequent visitor from Columbus, Georgia."
And so it goes.
=====================================================
Uncle Clarence would journey up from Florida every year, and make the rounds visiting family and friends, which often built into some large gatherings.
Post by George Dance
Post by drive-by
cut, print...or keep the original. Many things can fall to the cutting room floor, without destroying the message..in this case, the viewpoint of a young Will..
I think I am maintaining that integrity in the poem...
Well..be done with it then Will..more words written about what you should do, than the original write....think 'too many cooks, spoil the soup"...or stew, or pizza.
Rachel
2017-10-01 15:22:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by drive-by
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
Post by drive-by
Post by Will Dockery
Apple Montage
Sneaking around
with Cousin Jenny,
smoking menthol
beyond the sheds.
Late summer vacation 1973
in the backwoods of Tennessee.
To the right
behind the barn
were apple trees.
There were several
of those trees
and other trees
behind them
beyond a field
and behind them, other trees.
Later, I stood near
as a crowd
watched Pops and my Uncle
cooking apple butter;
stirring the brown gunk,
boiling in a huge black kettle.
I saw my father
secretly pass
a wine bottle
to my Uncle Clarence.
I went from
breathing cold mist
out back behind the barn,
to breathing
the hot misty steam.
The air smelled of apple fumes
and strong booze.
-Will Dockery
Too many 'Uncles' Drop 'and my Uncle' 5th stanza....
One way to cut that "uncle" yet keep him there is to say, "we stood near ... watched our fathers."
It gets more complicated the more the picture goes from impressionism to realist... Jenny's father is actually Uncle Fred, brother of Clarence.
Then you can't use "our fathers" - fair enough.
Yes... I am thinking of either taking the names out again, or Jack Kerouacing it, and giving the characters made up names.
Any thought son the pros and cons of this move, George,
'Kerouacing it' - you can't Kerouac your father, but if you think anyone else'll be embarrassed. I'm sure Rev. Whitley wouldn't be embarrassed about being caught drinking on the sly, but his children might. At the same time, imagine Kerouac bringing in a character and not naming him - these relatives of yours are characters in your mythos.
http://www.beatdom.com/the-beat-generation/whos-who-a-guide-to-kerouacs-characters/
Gabrielle Kerouac
Kerouac’s mother. She remained a huge influence on his life, living with him for much of his adulthood.
Doctor Sax – Ange
On the Road – Sal’s Aunt
The Town and the City – Marguerite Martin
Vanity of Duluoz – Ange
But mostly you are correct.
http://beat_literature.enacademic.com/165/Visions_of_Gerard
his father, Emil, takes second place of importance. Emil has business and health problems and must also endure watching his firstborn slowly die. Kerouac must acknowledge that the realities of making a living and of backbreaking work are quite real. Emil is portrayed as capable of being a “tragic philosopher,” and this quality of mind links him to Gerard. Emil escapes from the death watch in his home on the pretext that he has extra work to do with his assistant Manuel. The two men hit the road in Manuel’s sidecar motorcycle and end up playing cards with some old vaudevillians in downtown Lowell. Legend has it in the Kerouac family that Leo Kerouac met W. C. Fields a time or two and that they played poker together [...] After he and Emil get drunk, Bull reflects Kerouac’s Buddhist philosophy by saying, “It’s a dream, lads, it’s a dream.”
===================================================
Leo Kerouac
Kerouac’s father died in 1946, and shortly after this, Kerouac sat down and wrote The Town & The City. He promised his dying father that he would always look after his mother.
Doctor Sax – Emil “Pop” Duluoz
Maggie Cassidy – Emil “Pop” Duluoz
The Town and the City – George Martin
Vanity of Duluoz – Emil “Pop” Duluoz
Visions of Gerard – Emil “Pop” Duluoz
Post by George Dance
Post by Will Dockery
or anyone?
Yeah. I'm not trying to monopolize the discussion.
No problem with me on that, any and all feedback on this is of great interest and help for me, I'm going to get this poem polished, yet retain the raw power, if possible.
Post by George Dance
Post by Will Dockery
I don't want to disturb family with having their loved ones exposed in a beatnik poem... although I feel I do honor them all.
Post by George Dance
Post by Will Dockery
=========================================================
This is interesting, the obituary of my uncle, Reverend Clarence Whitley,
from the Daytona Beach Sunday News-Journal - Nov 26, 1980.
https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=bPowAAAAIBAJ&sjid=O-AFAAAAIBAJ&pg=1397%2C5413418
Also, I see my mother was listed, "...a sister, Mrs. (Kelly) Dockery, a
frequent visitor from Columbus, Georgia."
And so it goes.
=====================================================
Uncle Clarence would journey up from Florida every year, and make the rounds visiting family and friends, which often built into some large gatherings.
Post by George Dance
Post by drive-by
cut, print...or keep the original. Many things can fall to the cutting room floor, without destroying the message..in this case, the viewpoint of a young Will..
I think I am maintaining that integrity in the poem...
Well..be done with it then Will..more words written about what you should do, than the original write....think 'too many cooks, spoil the soup"...or stew, or pizza.
the broth...
Will Dockery
2017-10-01 15:39:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by drive-by
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
Post by drive-by
Post by Will Dockery
Apple Montage
Sneaking around
with Cousin Jenny,
smoking menthol
beyond the sheds.
Late summer vacation 1973
in the backwoods of Tennessee.
To the right
behind the barn
were apple trees.
There were several
of those trees
and other trees
behind them
beyond a field
and behind them, other trees.
Later, I stood near
as a crowd
watched Pops and my Uncle
cooking apple butter;
stirring the brown gunk,
boiling in a huge black kettle.
I saw my father
secretly pass
a wine bottle
to my Uncle Clarence.
I went from
breathing cold mist
out back behind the barn,
to breathing
the hot misty steam.
The air smelled of apple fumes
and strong booze.
-Will Dockery
Too many 'Uncles' Drop 'and my Uncle' 5th stanza....
One way to cut that "uncle" yet keep him there is to say, "we stood near ... watched our fathers."
It gets more complicated the more the picture goes from impressionism to realist... Jenny's father is actually Uncle Fred, brother of Clarence.
Then you can't use "our fathers" - fair enough.
Yes... I am thinking of either taking the names out again, or Jack Kerouacing it, and giving the characters made up names.
Any thought son the pros and cons of this move, George,
'Kerouacing it' - you can't Kerouac your father, but if you think anyone else'll be embarrassed. I'm sure Rev. Whitley wouldn't be embarrassed about being caught drinking on the sly, but his children might. At the same time, imagine Kerouac bringing in a character and not naming him - these relatives of yours are characters in your mythos.
http://www.beatdom.com/the-beat-generation/whos-who-a-guide-to-kerouacs-characters/
Gabrielle Kerouac
Kerouac’s mother. She remained a huge influence on his life, living with him for much of his adulthood.
Doctor Sax – Ange
On the Road – Sal’s Aunt
The Town and the City – Marguerite Martin
Vanity of Duluoz – Ange
But mostly you are correct.
http://beat_literature.enacademic.com/165/Visions_of_Gerard
his father, Emil, takes second place of importance. Emil has business and health problems and must also endure watching his firstborn slowly die. Kerouac must acknowledge that the realities of making a living and of backbreaking work are quite real. Emil is portrayed as capable of being a “tragic philosopher,” and this quality of mind links him to Gerard. Emil escapes from the death watch in his home on the pretext that he has extra work to do with his assistant Manuel. The two men hit the road in Manuel’s sidecar motorcycle and end up playing cards with some old vaudevillians in downtown Lowell. Legend has it in the Kerouac family that Leo Kerouac met W. C. Fields a time or two and that they played poker together [...] After he and Emil get drunk, Bull reflects Kerouac’s Buddhist philosophy by saying, “It’s a dream, lads, it’s a dream.”
===================================================
Leo Kerouac
Kerouac’s father died in 1946, and shortly after this, Kerouac sat down and wrote The Town & The City. He promised his dying father that he would always look after his mother.
Doctor Sax – Emil “Pop” Duluoz
Maggie Cassidy – Emil “Pop” Duluoz
The Town and the City – George Martin
Vanity of Duluoz – Emil “Pop” Duluoz
Visions of Gerard – Emil “Pop” Duluoz
Post by George Dance
Post by Will Dockery
or anyone?
Yeah. I'm not trying to monopolize the discussion.
No problem with me on that, any and all feedback on this is of great interest and help for me, I'm going to get this poem polished, yet retain the raw power, if possible.
Post by George Dance
Post by Will Dockery
I don't want to disturb family with having their loved ones exposed in a beatnik poem... although I feel I do honor them all.
Post by George Dance
Post by Will Dockery
=========================================================
This is interesting, the obituary of my uncle, Reverend Clarence Whitley,
from the Daytona Beach Sunday News-Journal - Nov 26, 1980.
https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=bPowAAAAIBAJ&sjid=O-AFAAAAIBAJ&pg=1397%2C5413418
Also, I see my mother was listed, "...a sister, Mrs. (Kelly) Dockery, a
frequent visitor from Columbus, Georgia."
And so it goes.
=====================================================
Uncle Clarence would journey up from Florida every year, and make the rounds visiting family and friends, which often built into some large gatherings.
Post by George Dance
Post by drive-by
cut, print...or keep the original. Many things can fall to the cutting room floor, without destroying the message..in this case, the viewpoint of a young Will..
I think I am maintaining that integrity in the poem...
Well..be done with it then Will..more words written about what you should do, than the original write....think 'too many cooks, spoil the soup"...or stew, or pizza.
I'm the only "cook" here, Jim, but I do appreciate feedback.
drive-by
2017-10-01 15:49:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Will Dockery
Post by drive-by
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
Post by Will Dockery
Post by George Dance
Post by drive-by
Post by Will Dockery
Apple Montage
Sneaking around
with Cousin Jenny,
smoking menthol
beyond the sheds.
Late summer vacation 1973
in the backwoods of Tennessee.
To the right
behind the barn
were apple trees.
There were several
of those trees
and other trees
behind them
beyond a field
and behind them, other trees.
Later, I stood near
as a crowd
watched Pops and my Uncle
cooking apple butter;
stirring the brown gunk,
boiling in a huge black kettle.
I saw my father
secretly pass
a wine bottle
to my Uncle Clarence.
I went from
breathing cold mist
out back behind the barn,
to breathing
the hot misty steam.
The air smelled of apple fumes
and strong booze.
-Will Dockery
Too many 'Uncles' Drop 'and my Uncle' 5th stanza....
One way to cut that "uncle" yet keep him there is to say, "we stood near ... watched our fathers."
It gets more complicated the more the picture goes from impressionism to realist... Jenny's father is actually Uncle Fred, brother of Clarence.
Then you can't use "our fathers" - fair enough.
Yes... I am thinking of either taking the names out again, or Jack Kerouacing it, and giving the characters made up names.
Any thought son the pros and cons of this move, George,
'Kerouacing it' - you can't Kerouac your father, but if you think anyone else'll be embarrassed. I'm sure Rev. Whitley wouldn't be embarrassed about being caught drinking on the sly, but his children might. At the same time, imagine Kerouac bringing in a character and not naming him - these relatives of yours are characters in your mythos.
http://www.beatdom.com/the-beat-generation/whos-who-a-guide-to-kerouacs-characters/
Gabrielle Kerouac
Kerouac’s mother. She remained a huge influence on his life, living with him for much of his adulthood.
Doctor Sax – Ange
On the Road – Sal’s Aunt
The Town and the City – Marguerite Martin
Vanity of Duluoz – Ange
But mostly you are correct.
http://beat_literature.enacademic.com/165/Visions_of_Gerard
his father, Emil, takes second place of importance. Emil has business and health problems and must also endure watching his firstborn slowly die. Kerouac must acknowledge that the realities of making a living and of backbreaking work are quite real. Emil is portrayed as capable of being a “tragic philosopher,” and this quality of mind links him to Gerard. Emil escapes from the death watch in his home on the pretext that he has extra work to do with his assistant Manuel. The two men hit the road in Manuel’s sidecar motorcycle and end up playing cards with some old vaudevillians in downtown Lowell. Legend has it in the Kerouac family that Leo Kerouac met W. C. Fields a time or two and that they played poker together [...] After he and Emil get drunk, Bull reflects Kerouac’s Buddhist philosophy by saying, “It’s a dream, lads, it’s a dream.”
===================================================
Leo Kerouac
Kerouac’s father died in 1946, and shortly after this, Kerouac sat down and wrote The Town & The City. He promised his dying father that he would always look after his mother.
Doctor Sax – Emil “Pop” Duluoz
Maggie Cassidy – Emil “Pop” Duluoz
The Town and the City – George Martin
Vanity of Duluoz – Emil “Pop” Duluoz
Visions of Gerard – Emil “Pop” Duluoz
Post by George Dance
Post by Will Dockery
or anyone?
Yeah. I'm not trying to monopolize the discussion.
No problem with me on that, any and all feedback on this is of great interest and help for me, I'm going to get this poem polished, yet retain the raw power, if possible.
Post by George Dance
Post by Will Dockery
I don't want to disturb family with having their loved ones exposed in a beatnik poem... although I feel I do honor them all.
Post by George Dance
Post by Will Dockery
=========================================================
This is interesting, the obituary of my uncle, Reverend Clarence Whitley,
from the Daytona Beach Sunday News-Journal - Nov 26, 1980.
https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=bPowAAAAIBAJ&sjid=O-AFAAAAIBAJ&pg=1397%2C5413418
Also, I see my mother was listed, "...a sister, Mrs. (Kelly) Dockery, a
frequent visitor from Columbus, Georgia."
And so it goes.
=====================================================
Uncle Clarence would journey up from Florida every year, and make the rounds visiting family and friends, which often built into some large gatherings.
Post by George Dance
Post by drive-by
cut, print...or keep the original. Many things can fall to the cutting room floor, without destroying the message..in this case, the viewpoint of a young Will..
I think I am maintaining that integrity in the poem...
Well..be done with it then Will..more words written about what you should do, than the original write....think 'too many cooks, spoil the soup"...or stew, or pizza.
I'm the only "cook" here, Jim, but I do appreciate feedback.
I know you like feedback...but over-fed removes the joy of the first taste...:-)
Will Dockery
2017-10-01 04:38:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Yes, I'm seeing the finished poem landing somewhere in between the two current versions.
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