Discussion:
"Wooing Han," a poem by NancyGene
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NancyGene
2020-03-23 23:45:52 UTC
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Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene

Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.

Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.

Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
gorilla legs:
the scourge to come.
Hieronymous Corey
2020-03-23 23:56:46 UTC
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Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
Racist much?
Z***@none.i2p
2020-03-24 16:39:34 UTC
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Hieronymous Corey wrote on Mon, 23 March 2020 23:56
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
<<<<Racism snipped<<<<<
Post by NancyGene
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
Racist much?
Not surprising, it was NG's anti-Semitism that brought her here in the first place....... stalking S.P.
Z***@none.i2p
2020-03-24 19:23:28 UTC
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Hieronymous Corey wrote on Mon, 23 March 2020 23:56
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
[color=blue]>
Post by NancyGene
the scourge to come.
Racist much?
When has Nancy G ever stopped....?
Z***@none.i2p
2020-03-24 20:23:04 UTC
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Hieronymous Corey wrote on Mon, 23 March 2020 23:56
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
[color=blue]>
Racist much?
You nailed the motherfucker, Corey......
Z***@none.i2p
2020-03-27 04:24:07 UTC
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Hieronymous Corey wrote on Mon, 23 March 2020 23:56
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
<<<<Racist spew snipped>>>>
Post by NancyGene
the scourge to come.
Racist much?
Indeed, Nancy G is a malicious little scum bag.....
Z***@none.i2p
2020-04-20 15:15:11 UTC
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Hieronymous Corey wrote on Mon, 23 March 2020 23:56
Post by Hieronymous Corey
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we'll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
Racist much?
Ouch..... that had to sting....
NancyGene
2020-03-24 13:23:35 UTC
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Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
As to the statement that we or the poem is racist, we offer:

1. The coronavirus outbreak has been traced to a wet market in Wuhan, China.
2. The virus did not escape from a lab experiment.
3. The coronavirus resembles viruses that have been found in bats and pangolins.
4. Humans either contracted the virus directly from an animal or through an intermediate host which had contracted it from (probably) a bat.
5. Visit an Asian market in your community and let us know what you see.
6. Look at pictures of wet markets in China and read the descriptions.

https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html
Hieronymous Corey
2020-03-24 14:28:53 UTC
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Post by NancyGene
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
1. The coronavirus outbreak has been traced to a wet market in Wuhan, China.
2. The virus did not escape from a lab experiment.
3. The coronavirus resembles viruses that have been found in bats and pangolins.
4. Humans either contracted the virus directly from an animal or through an intermediate host which had contracted it from (probably) a bat.
5. Visit an Asian market in your community and let us know what you see.
6. Look at pictures of wet markets in China and read the descriptions.
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html
It wasn’t a statement, sweetheart. It was an honest question.
You do understand the difference between an honest question
and a dishonest implication, don’t you? I should hope so.
Z***@none.i2p
2020-03-24 18:13:39 UTC
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Hieronymous Corey wrote on Tue, 24 March 2020 14:28
Post by NancyGene
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we'll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
1. The coronavirus outbreak has been traced to a wet market in Wuhan, China.
2. The virus did not escape from a lab experiment.
3. The coronavirus resembles viruses that have been found in bats and pangolins.
4. Humans either contracted the virus directly from an animal or through an intermediate host which had contracted it from (probably) a bat.
5. Visit an Asian market in your community and let us know what you see.
6. Look at pictures of wet markets in China and read the descriptions.
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html
It wasn't a statement, sweetheart. It was an honest question.
You do understand the difference between an honest question
and a dishonest implication, don't you? I should hope so.
You nailed it, Corey.....
k***@gmail.com
2020-03-24 15:41:17 UTC
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Post by NancyGene
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
1. The coronavirus outbreak has been traced to a wet market in Wuhan, China.
2. The virus did not escape from a lab experiment.
3. The coronavirus resembles viruses that have been found in bats and pangolins.
4. Humans either contracted the virus directly from an animal or through an intermediate host which had contracted it from (probably) a bat.
5. Visit an Asian market in your community and let us know what you see.
6. Look at pictures of wet markets in China and read the descriptions.
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html
I do frequently. Tripe, pig uterus and feet, live fish are available, but, no pangolins, bats, dogs or cats. I did have a colleague who would wax poetic on snake soup, but it isn't available in the US to my knowledge. There is a true Bell Labs story of the Korean scientists who received a pickled dog and asked a non-Asian colleague to help them open the jar. They did offered to share, but the helper was not interested.

Points 1 thru 4 are certainly true. Pangolins are endangered and should not be hunted for human consumption. Consumption of non-endangered animals is not as serious a problem unless it causes the spread of disease, which is possible. New strains of flu frequently originate from pigs and poultry being raise in close proximity.

Hopefully China will regulate wet markets in the future.
NancyGene
2020-03-24 16:15:29 UTC
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Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by NancyGene
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
1. The coronavirus outbreak has been traced to a wet market in Wuhan, China.
2. The virus did not escape from a lab experiment.
3. The coronavirus resembles viruses that have been found in bats and pangolins.
4. Humans either contracted the virus directly from an animal or through an intermediate host which had contracted it from (probably) a bat.
5. Visit an Asian market in your community and let us know what you see.
6. Look at pictures of wet markets in China and read the descriptions.
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html
I do frequently. Tripe, pig uterus and feet, live fish are available, but, no pangolins, bats, dogs or cats. I did have a colleague who would wax poetic on snake soup, but it isn't available in the US to my knowledge. There is a true Bell Labs story of the Korean scientists who received a pickled dog and asked a non-Asian colleague to help them open the jar. They did offered to share, but the helper was not interested.
Points 1 thru 4 are certainly true. Pangolins are endangered and should not be hunted for human consumption. Consumption of non-endangered animals is not as serious a problem unless it causes the spread of disease, which is possible. New strains of flu frequently originate from pigs and poultry being raise in close proximity.
Hopefully China will regulate wet markets in the future.
Some of the worst sights we ever saw were at an Asian farmer's market. We didn't want to look in the cases.

We can see the competition for food resources in a country that has a population of almost a billion and a half people. They eat what they can find. However, some things really are dangerous to eat. Ask the people who were eating monkey brains.
k***@gmail.com
2020-03-24 18:02:22 UTC
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Post by NancyGene
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by NancyGene
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
1. The coronavirus outbreak has been traced to a wet market in Wuhan, China.
2. The virus did not escape from a lab experiment.
3. The coronavirus resembles viruses that have been found in bats and pangolins.
4. Humans either contracted the virus directly from an animal or through an intermediate host which had contracted it from (probably) a bat.
5. Visit an Asian market in your community and let us know what you see.
6. Look at pictures of wet markets in China and read the descriptions.
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html
I do frequently. Tripe, pig uterus and feet, live fish are available, but, no pangolins, bats, dogs or cats. I did have a colleague who would wax poetic on snake soup, but it isn't available in the US to my knowledge. There is a true Bell Labs story of the Korean scientists who received a pickled dog and asked a non-Asian colleague to help them open the jar. They did offered to share, but the helper was not interested.
Points 1 thru 4 are certainly true. Pangolins are endangered and should not be hunted for human consumption. Consumption of non-endangered animals is not as serious a problem unless it causes the spread of disease, which is possible. New strains of flu frequently originate from pigs and poultry being raise in close proximity.
Hopefully China will regulate wet markets in the future.
Some of the worst sights we ever saw were at an Asian farmer's market. We didn't want to look in the cases.
We can see the competition for food resources in a country that has a population of almost a billion and a half people. They eat what they can find. However, some things really are dangerous to eat. Ask the people who were eating monkey brains.
That's a good way to ingest prions.
NancyGene
2020-03-24 20:19:02 UTC
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Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by NancyGene
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by NancyGene
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
1. The coronavirus outbreak has been traced to a wet market in Wuhan, China.
2. The virus did not escape from a lab experiment.
3. The coronavirus resembles viruses that have been found in bats and pangolins.
4. Humans either contracted the virus directly from an animal or through an intermediate host which had contracted it from (probably) a bat.
5. Visit an Asian market in your community and let us know what you see.
6. Look at pictures of wet markets in China and read the descriptions.
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html
I do frequently. Tripe, pig uterus and feet, live fish are available, but, no pangolins, bats, dogs or cats. I did have a colleague who would wax poetic on snake soup, but it isn't available in the US to my knowledge. There is a true Bell Labs story of the Korean scientists who received a pickled dog and asked a non-Asian colleague to help them open the jar. They did offered to share, but the helper was not interested.
Points 1 thru 4 are certainly true. Pangolins are endangered and should not be hunted for human consumption. Consumption of non-endangered animals is not as serious a problem unless it causes the spread of disease, which is possible. New strains of flu frequently originate from pigs and poultry being raise in close proximity.
Hopefully China will regulate wet markets in the future.
Some of the worst sights we ever saw were at an Asian farmer's market. We didn't want to look in the cases.
We can see the competition for food resources in a country that has a population of almost a billion and a half people. They eat what they can find. However, some things really are dangerous to eat. Ask the people who were eating monkey brains.
That's a good way to ingest prions.
Yes, mainlining. We have also read that some deer and elk have Chronic Wasting Disease prions, and it's probably not safe to eat the meat from infected animals.
m***@yahoo.com
2020-04-22 17:02:11 UTC
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Post by NancyGene
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by NancyGene
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
1. The coronavirus outbreak has been traced to a wet market in Wuhan, China.
2. The virus did not escape from a lab experiment.
3. The coronavirus resembles viruses that have been found in bats and pangolins.
4. Humans either contracted the virus directly from an animal or through an intermediate host which had contracted it from (probably) a bat.
5. Visit an Asian market in your community and let us know what you see.
6. Look at pictures of wet markets in China and read the descriptions.
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html
I do frequently. Tripe, pig uterus and feet, live fish are available, but, no pangolins, bats, dogs or cats. I did have a colleague who would wax poetic on snake soup, but it isn't available in the US to my knowledge. There is a true Bell Labs story of the Korean scientists who received a pickled dog and asked a non-Asian colleague to help them open the jar. They did offered to share, but the helper was not interested.
Points 1 thru 4 are certainly true. Pangolins are endangered and should not be hunted for human consumption. Consumption of non-endangered animals is not as serious a problem unless it causes the spread of disease, which is possible. New strains of flu frequently originate from pigs and poultry being raise in close proximity.
Hopefully China will regulate wet markets in the future.
Some of the worst sights we ever saw were at an Asian farmer's market. We didn't want to look in the cases.
Why in the hell do you always use "we"?
You realize you are one person, right?
Or are you one of those Cybil-people?
Do you have a personality that isn't a boring bitch?
Post by NancyGene
We can see the competition for food resources in a country that has a population of almost a billion and a half people. They eat what they can find. However, some things really are dangerous to eat. Ask the people who were eating monkey brains.
You are such a racist, stereotypical slut.
Z***@none.i2p
2020-04-27 05:23:33 UTC
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madeforzyngagames wrote on Wed, 22 April 2020 17:02
Post by m***@yahoo.com
Post by NancyGene
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by NancyGene
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we'll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
1. The coronavirus outbreak has been traced to a wet market in Wuhan, China.
2. The virus did not escape from a lab experiment.
3. The coronavirus resembles viruses that have been found in bats and pangolins.
4. Humans either contracted the virus directly from an animal or through an intermediate host which had contracted it from (probably) a bat.
5. Visit an Asian market in your community and let us know what you see.
6. Look at pictures of wet markets in China and read the descriptions.
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html
I do frequently. Tripe, pig uterus and feet, live fish are available, but, no pangolins, bats, dogs or cats. I did have a colleague who would wax poetic on snake soup, but it isn't available in the US to my knowledge. There is a true Bell Labs story of the Korean scientists who received a pickled dog and asked a non-Asian colleague to help them open the jar. They did offered to share, but the helper was not interested.
Points 1 thru 4 are certainly true. Pangolins are endangered and should not be hunted for human consumption. Consumption of non-endangered animals is not as serious a problem unless it causes the spread of disease, which is possible. New strains of flu frequently originate from pigs and poultry being raise in close proximity.
Hopefully China will regulate wet markets in the future.
Some of the worst sights we ever saw were at an Asian farmer's market. We didn't want to look in the cases.
Why in the hell do you always use "we"?
You realize you are one person, right?
Or are you one of those Cybil-people?
Do you have a personality that isn't a boring bitch?
Post by NancyGene
We can see the competition for food resources in a country that has a population of almost a billion and a half people. They eat what they can find.. However, some things really are dangerous to eat. Ask the people who were eating monkey brains.
You are such a racist, stereotypical slut.
Wow, Dink.....

That was mean...
George J. Dance
2020-04-27 08:07:02 UTC
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Post by Z***@none.i2p
madeforzyngagames wrote on Wed, 22 April 2020 17:02
Post by m***@yahoo.com
Post by NancyGene
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by NancyGene
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we'll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
1. The coronavirus outbreak has been traced to a wet market in Wuhan, China.
2. The virus did not escape from a lab experiment.
3. The coronavirus resembles viruses that have been found in bats and pangolins.
4. Humans either contracted the virus directly from an animal or through an intermediate host which had contracted it from (probably) a bat.
5. Visit an Asian market in your community and let us know what you see.
6. Look at pictures of wet markets in China and read the descriptions.
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html
I do frequently. Tripe, pig uterus and feet, live fish are available, but, no pangolins, bats, dogs or cats. I did have a colleague who would wax poetic on snake soup, but it isn't available in the US to my knowledge. There is a true Bell Labs story of the Korean scientists who received a pickled dog and asked a non-Asian colleague to help them open the jar. They did offered to share, but the helper was not interested.
Points 1 thru 4 are certainly true. Pangolins are endangered and should not be hunted for human consumption. Consumption of non-endangered animals is not as serious a problem unless it causes the spread of disease, which is possible. New strains of flu frequently originate from pigs and poultry being raise in close proximity.
Hopefully China will regulate wet markets in the future.
Some of the worst sights we ever saw were at an Asian farmer's market. We didn't want to look in the cases.
Why in the hell do you always use "we"?
You realize you are one person, right?
Or are you one of those Cybil-people?
Do you have a personality that isn't a boring bitch?
Post by NancyGene
We can see the competition for food resources in a country that has a population of almost a billion and a half people. They eat what they can find.. However, some things really are dangerous to eat. Ask the people who were eating monkey brains.
You are such a racist, stereotypical slut.
Wow, Dink.....
That was mean...
Yes, but I'm sure he's just calling it as he sees it. Fortunately NG has since "clarified" that they were not saying anything about Chinese what Chinese people eat.
Z***@none.i2p
2020-03-24 19:59:40 UTC
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NancyGene wrote on Tue, 24 March 2020 13:23
Post by NancyGene
As to the statement that we or the poem is racist
You are a malicious lying scum bag, as well......
Z***@none.i2p
2020-03-24 20:38:24 UTC
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NancyGene wrote on Tue, 24 March 2020 13:23
Post by NancyGene
As to the statement that we or the poem is racist, we
You are a racist....?

We know,,,,,
Michael Pendragon
2020-03-25 14:57:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by NancyGene
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
1. The coronavirus outbreak has been traced to a wet market in Wuhan, China.
2. The virus did not escape from a lab experiment.
3. The coronavirus resembles viruses that have been found in bats and pangolins.
4. Humans either contracted the virus directly from an animal or through an intermediate host which had contracted it from (probably) a bat.
5. Visit an Asian market in your community and let us know what you see.
6. Look at pictures of wet markets in China and read the descriptions.
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html
When my Grandmother was growing up in Philadelphia in the 1910s, she and her friends used to yell "Chinaman, Chinaman, eat dead rats!" whenever they'd pass a Chinese restaurant or laundry.
k***@gmail.com
2020-03-25 15:16:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by NancyGene
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
1. The coronavirus outbreak has been traced to a wet market in Wuhan, China.
2. The virus did not escape from a lab experiment.
3. The coronavirus resembles viruses that have been found in bats and pangolins.
4. Humans either contracted the virus directly from an animal or through an intermediate host which had contracted it from (probably) a bat.
5. Visit an Asian market in your community and let us know what you see.
6. Look at pictures of wet markets in China and read the descriptions.
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html
When my Grandmother was growing up in Philadelphia in the 1910s, she and her friends used to yell "Chinaman, Chinaman, eat dead rats!" whenever they'd pass a Chinese restaurant or laundry.
When my Grandfather was growing up in Brooklyn, he would fill a sock with flour and hit the Jewish kids in black clothing on the back. Both behaviors are wrong.
Antti
2020-03-25 15:35:28 UTC
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Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by NancyGene
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
1. The coronavirus outbreak has been traced to a wet market in Wuhan, China.
2. The virus did not escape from a lab experiment.
3. The coronavirus resembles viruses that have been found in bats and pangolins.
4. Humans either contracted the virus directly from an animal or through an intermediate host which had contracted it from (probably) a bat.
5. Visit an Asian market in your community and let us know what you see.
6. Look at pictures of wet markets in China and read the descriptions.
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html
When my Grandmother was growing up in Philadelphia in the 1910s, she and her friends used to yell "Chinaman, Chinaman, eat dead rats!" whenever they'd pass a Chinese restaurant or laundry.
When my Grandfather was growing up in Brooklyn, he would fill a sock with flour and hit the Jewish kids in black clothing on the back. Both behaviors are wrong.
Do we have any American Indians here? They have their grievances too.

:)

Antti
NancyGene
2020-03-25 15:38:14 UTC
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Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by NancyGene
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
1. The coronavirus outbreak has been traced to a wet market in Wuhan, China.
2. The virus did not escape from a lab experiment.
3. The coronavirus resembles viruses that have been found in bats and pangolins.
4. Humans either contracted the virus directly from an animal or through an intermediate host which had contracted it from (probably) a bat.
5. Visit an Asian market in your community and let us know what you see.
6. Look at pictures of wet markets in China and read the descriptions.
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html
When my Grandmother was growing up in Philadelphia in the 1910s, she and her friends used to yell "Chinaman, Chinaman, eat dead rats!" whenever they'd pass a Chinese restaurant or laundry.
When my Grandfather was growing up in Brooklyn, he would fill a sock with flour and hit the Jewish kids in black clothing on the back. Both behaviors are wrong.
Pickles would have hated you and the family you grew up with.
Hieronymous Corey
2020-03-25 15:45:02 UTC
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Post by NancyGene
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by NancyGene
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
1. The coronavirus outbreak has been traced to a wet market in Wuhan, China.
2. The virus did not escape from a lab experiment.
3. The coronavirus resembles viruses that have been found in bats and pangolins.
4. Humans either contracted the virus directly from an animal or through an intermediate host which had contracted it from (probably) a bat.
5. Visit an Asian market in your community and let us know what you see.
6. Look at pictures of wet markets in China and read the descriptions.
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html
When my Grandmother was growing up in Philadelphia in the 1910s, she and her friends used to yell "Chinaman, Chinaman, eat dead rats!" whenever they'd pass a Chinese restaurant or laundry.
When my Grandfather was growing up in Brooklyn, he would fill a sock with flour and hit the Jewish kids in black clothing on the back. Both behaviors are wrong.
Pickles would have hated you and the family you grew up with.
Speaking of which, where do you come down on
circumcision? I'd really like to see that.
k***@gmail.com
2020-03-25 15:55:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by NancyGene
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by NancyGene
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
1. The coronavirus outbreak has been traced to a wet market in Wuhan, China.
2. The virus did not escape from a lab experiment.
3. The coronavirus resembles viruses that have been found in bats and pangolins.
4. Humans either contracted the virus directly from an animal or through an intermediate host which had contracted it from (probably) a bat.
5. Visit an Asian market in your community and let us know what you see.
6. Look at pictures of wet markets in China and read the descriptions.
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html
When my Grandmother was growing up in Philadelphia in the 1910s, she and her friends used to yell "Chinaman, Chinaman, eat dead rats!" whenever they'd pass a Chinese restaurant or laundry.
When my Grandfather was growing up in Brooklyn, he would fill a sock with flour and hit the Jewish kids in black clothing on the back. Both behaviors are wrong.
Pickles would have hated you and the family you grew up with.
I don't doubt it. My grandfathers were both somewhat antisemitic. This embarrassed my poor mother who had to tell us not to repeat certain things they said.
George J. Dance
2020-04-22 16:49:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by NancyGene
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Michael Pendragon
When my Grandmother was growing up in Philadelphia in the 1910s, she and her friends used to yell "Chinaman, Chinaman, eat dead rats!" whenever they'd pass a Chinese restaurant or laundry.
When my Grandfather was growing up in Brooklyn, he would fill a sock with flour and hit the Jewish kids in black clothing on the back. Both behaviors are wrong.
Pickles would have hated you and the family you grew up with.
Whereas you and Pendragon's granny could have written "poetry" together.
Z***@none.i2p
2020-04-25 16:24:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
George J. Dance wrote on Wed, 22 April 2020 16:49
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Michael Pendragon
When my Grandmother was growing up in Philadelphia in the 1910s, she and her friends used to yell "Chinaman, Chinaman, eat dead rats!" whenever they'd pass a Chinese restaurant or laundry.
When my Grandfather was growing up in Brooklyn, he would fill a sock with flour and hit the Jewish kids in black clothing on the back. Both behaviors are wrong.
Pickles would have hated you and the family you grew up with.
Whereas you and Pendragon's granny could have written "poetry" together.
Ha ha ha.....
Michael Pendragon
2020-03-25 16:24:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by NancyGene
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
1. The coronavirus outbreak has been traced to a wet market in Wuhan, China.
2. The virus did not escape from a lab experiment.
3. The coronavirus resembles viruses that have been found in bats and pangolins.
4. Humans either contracted the virus directly from an animal or through an intermediate host which had contracted it from (probably) a bat.
5. Visit an Asian market in your community and let us know what you see.
6. Look at pictures of wet markets in China and read the descriptions.
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html
When my Grandmother was growing up in Philadelphia in the 1910s, she and her friends used to yell "Chinaman, Chinaman, eat dead rats!" whenever they'd pass a Chinese restaurant or laundry.
When my Grandfather was growing up in Brooklyn, he would fill a sock with flour and hit the Jewish kids in black clothing on the back. Both behaviors are wrong.
Of course they are.

My Grandmother was a child at the time and she and her friends were scared to death of the Chinese. This was during the time when everyone talked about the "Yellow Peril," and such.
k***@gmail.com
2020-03-25 20:35:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by NancyGene
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
1. The coronavirus outbreak has been traced to a wet market in Wuhan, China.
2. The virus did not escape from a lab experiment.
3. The coronavirus resembles viruses that have been found in bats and pangolins.
4. Humans either contracted the virus directly from an animal or through an intermediate host which had contracted it from (probably) a bat.
5. Visit an Asian market in your community and let us know what you see.
6. Look at pictures of wet markets in China and read the descriptions.
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html
When my Grandmother was growing up in Philadelphia in the 1910s, she and her friends used to yell "Chinaman, Chinaman, eat dead rats!" whenever they'd pass a Chinese restaurant or laundry.
When my Grandfather was growing up in Brooklyn, he would fill a sock with flour and hit the Jewish kids in black clothing on the back. Both behaviors are wrong.
Of course they are.
My Grandmother was a child at the time and she and her friends were scared to death of the Chinese. This was during the time when everyone talked about the "Yellow Peril," and such.
My Grandfather was a bully; the Jewish kids were likely scared of him. He graduated from 8th grade 2nd in his class, yet the teacher sent him to 1st grade for a day because he was such a pest. He could still recite the "Cremation of Sam McGee" when I was a child.
Me
2020-03-25 20:42:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by NancyGene
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
1. The coronavirus outbreak has been traced to a wet market in Wuhan, China.
2. The virus did not escape from a lab experiment.
3. The coronavirus resembles viruses that have been found in bats and pangolins.
4. Humans either contracted the virus directly from an animal or through an intermediate host which had contracted it from (probably) a bat.
5. Visit an Asian market in your community and let us know what you see.
6. Look at pictures of wet markets in China and read the descriptions.
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html
When my Grandmother was growing up in Philadelphia in the 1910s, she and her friends used to yell "Chinaman, Chinaman, eat dead rats!" whenever they'd pass a Chinese restaurant or laundry.
When my Grandfather was growing up in Brooklyn, he would fill a sock with flour and hit the Jewish kids in black clothing on the back. Both behaviors are wrong.
Of course they are.
My Grandmother was a child at the time and she and her friends were scared to death of the Chinese. This was during the time when everyone talked about the "Yellow Peril," and such.
My Grandfather was a bully; the Jewish kids were likely scared of him. He graduated from 8th grade 2nd in his class, yet the teacher sent him to 1st grade for a day because he was such a pest. He could still recite the "Cremation of Sam McGee" when I was a child.
My maternal grandparents were very kind and generous. They were both very forward thinkers, hardworking and god fearing. I’m grateful for being blessed with such amazing role models in my early years.
I guess it’s what we choose to take from our youth that makes us who we become.
k***@gmail.com
2020-03-25 20:59:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Me
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by NancyGene
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
1. The coronavirus outbreak has been traced to a wet market in Wuhan, China.
2. The virus did not escape from a lab experiment.
3. The coronavirus resembles viruses that have been found in bats and pangolins.
4. Humans either contracted the virus directly from an animal or through an intermediate host which had contracted it from (probably) a bat.
5. Visit an Asian market in your community and let us know what you see.
6. Look at pictures of wet markets in China and read the descriptions.
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html
When my Grandmother was growing up in Philadelphia in the 1910s, she and her friends used to yell "Chinaman, Chinaman, eat dead rats!" whenever they'd pass a Chinese restaurant or laundry.
When my Grandfather was growing up in Brooklyn, he would fill a sock with flour and hit the Jewish kids in black clothing on the back. Both behaviors are wrong.
Of course they are.
My Grandmother was a child at the time and she and her friends were scared to death of the Chinese. This was during the time when everyone talked about the "Yellow Peril," and such.
My Grandfather was a bully; the Jewish kids were likely scared of him. He graduated from 8th grade 2nd in his class, yet the teacher sent him to 1st grade for a day because he was such a pest. He could still recite the "Cremation of Sam McGee" when I was a child.
My maternal grandparents were very kind and generous. They were both very forward thinkers, hardworking and god fearing. I’m grateful for being blessed with such amazing role models in my early years.
I guess it’s what we choose to take from our youth that makes us who we become.
It's good to have role models.

My mother's parents were very loving and fiercely loyal to us. My father's mother was the closest thing I has to a role model, she thought for herself despite being kind and loving. My father did encouraged me to study and pursue a scientific career.
Me
2020-03-25 21:04:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Me
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by NancyGene
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
1. The coronavirus outbreak has been traced to a wet market in Wuhan, China.
2. The virus did not escape from a lab experiment.
3. The coronavirus resembles viruses that have been found in bats and pangolins.
4. Humans either contracted the virus directly from an animal or through an intermediate host which had contracted it from (probably) a bat.
5. Visit an Asian market in your community and let us know what you see.
6. Look at pictures of wet markets in China and read the descriptions.
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html
When my Grandmother was growing up in Philadelphia in the 1910s, she and her friends used to yell "Chinaman, Chinaman, eat dead rats!" whenever they'd pass a Chinese restaurant or laundry.
When my Grandfather was growing up in Brooklyn, he would fill a sock with flour and hit the Jewish kids in black clothing on the back. Both behaviors are wrong.
Of course they are.
My Grandmother was a child at the time and she and her friends were scared to death of the Chinese. This was during the time when everyone talked about the "Yellow Peril," and such.
My Grandfather was a bully; the Jewish kids were likely scared of him. He graduated from 8th grade 2nd in his class, yet the teacher sent him to 1st grade for a day because he was such a pest. He could still recite the "Cremation of Sam McGee" when I was a child.
My maternal grandparents were very kind and generous. They were both very forward thinkers, hardworking and god fearing. I’m grateful for being blessed with such amazing role models in my early years.
I guess it’s what we choose to take from our youth that makes us who we become.
It's good to have role models.
My mother's parents were very loving and fiercely loyal to us. My father's mother was the closest thing I has to a role model, she thought for herself despite being kind and loving. My father did encouraged me to study and pursue a scientific career.
Sounds like you were lucky also.
Antti
2020-03-26 05:39:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Me
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Me
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by NancyGene
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
1. The coronavirus outbreak has been traced to a wet market in Wuhan, China.
2. The virus did not escape from a lab experiment.
3. The coronavirus resembles viruses that have been found in bats and pangolins.
4. Humans either contracted the virus directly from an animal or through an intermediate host which had contracted it from (probably) a bat.
5. Visit an Asian market in your community and let us know what you see.
6. Look at pictures of wet markets in China and read the descriptions.
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html
When my Grandmother was growing up in Philadelphia in the 1910s, she and her friends used to yell "Chinaman, Chinaman, eat dead rats!" whenever they'd pass a Chinese restaurant or laundry.
When my Grandfather was growing up in Brooklyn, he would fill a sock with flour and hit the Jewish kids in black clothing on the back. Both behaviors are wrong.
Of course they are.
My Grandmother was a child at the time and she and her friends were scared to death of the Chinese. This was during the time when everyone talked about the "Yellow Peril," and such.
My Grandfather was a bully; the Jewish kids were likely scared of him. He graduated from 8th grade 2nd in his class, yet the teacher sent him to 1st grade for a day because he was such a pest. He could still recite the "Cremation of Sam McGee" when I was a child.
My maternal grandparents were very kind and generous. They were both very forward thinkers, hardworking and god fearing. I’m grateful for being blessed with such amazing role models in my early years.
I guess it’s what we choose to take from our youth that makes us who we become.
It's good to have role models.
My mother's parents were very loving and fiercely loyal to us. My father's mother was the closest thing I has to a role model, she thought for herself despite being kind and loving. My father did encouraged me to study and pursue a scientific career.
Sounds like you were lucky also.
What follows is a long caffeine fueled rant that you all can ignore:

Truthfully. Dumb luck or lack of it guides us all.

Our parents give us advice. But in the end of the day anything can happen
at any moment.

Our cells are little nuclear bombs that can go off at any time (cancer etc).

Every time we drive a car, anything could happen.

Our families. If our parents had died when we were little.. If they were
afflicted in some way that made them unable to give us advice.

If we have genes that lean towards addiction, if we lifted that bottle to our lips.

Every day we go about our business. If something happened to us. A truck
veered off course. Someone at the factory made ice cream with dirty hands which gave us a food poisoning that sent us to hospital, where we caught MRSA and died.

If we came to the path of a madman. A thief in the night.

If a meteorite landed on us.

If a plane we were on crashed.

If a stray dog went nuts on us.

If a song pissed us off and we were loudly talking about it in a public transit and a druggie in a psychosis was offended.

If a electric appliance caught fire in the middle of the night as we were sleeping.

If we fell down doing whatever and struck our head.

If a viper, cobra or some poisonous snake popped out of a hole while we were having a picnic and bit us.

Or a hormone filled bull moose decided to decimate us with his antlers.

Or if a mosquito bit us and gave us the west nile disease. Or tick that gave us lyme disease, which went bad.

If we went to a gun range and some mad woman decided to blow our brains out.
(happened here some 10 years back)

If there was particularly large hail and we found ourselves outside. With no
cover.

If we found ourselves from a room rapidly filling with carbon monoxide, lets say we went to sauna and the chimney was closed (happens in Finland).

If we were walking on a glacier and the ice below us suddenly gave up.

If someone blew some rock without a rubber cover and one of the rocks from the explosion decided to fly straight to our head.

If a jet engine decided to fall on our heads after breaking free from a jet plane.

If we drank from some cup we thought was fancy and it was actually covered with some poisonous material that slowly drove us crazy and made us commit a suicide.

If a police that was chasing a violent criminal decided that we were him and decided to shoot us in the head.

If the patch of coffee we were drinking had somehow been laced with arsenic.

If we were following some instruction on the internet for building X and it did not go very well and the X turned out to be a death trap.

If the food we ate was not nutritious and we slowly killed ourselves due to malnutrition.

If the person we wrote to on the internet was a serial killer and chose us as his random victim.

If the doctor that was treating us, was tired of it all and decided to give us a pill that killed us.

If our clothes / shoes etc were laced with something poisonous accidentally and gave us a deadly rash.

If the medicine we ingested was actually made wrong and it killed us.

If the fast food we ate was made by some fool with corona virus and it killed us.

Do I have to go on?

Dumb luck keeps us alive.

Dumb luck makes us possibly smart and rich.

We do not control poop.

Writing the above made me realize.

What is the point?

All these personal stories of vindication we tell for ourselves. I guess it makes us feel good when we tell a story in which we are heroes that overcame insurmountable odds. But really?

What is the part of free will in a world that can kill us all day and all night long. How do we rise above our circumstances when it can be the very mind we have that is afflicted? How many "special" billionaires there are.

I do not know a single one.

Smart people have genes that make them able to retain information and cognitive functions good enough to process that information. "Stupid" people do not. The only hope for "stupid" people is luck. For smart people, they can use their faculties.

My previous epilepsy medication actually began to deteriorate my memory. One hell of a feeling. To realize it all depends on just some chemical balance in
my neurons. Throw that a little off and I am a drooling idiot.

This one gives me a better memory, but now my emotions are muted! Oh vey!

Yes! The very faculties are affected by dumb luck of upbringing, genes and
every day life. Why be proud?

If you find yourself from Ivy league college and you do well. Good. If you find yourself from a roadside picking up trash. Good.

Were you 100 % in control getting there? If you tell yourself yes. Well. It is not reality.

Free will. Is there free will?

What does free will amount up to in a world where we are like flawed ships sailing on the sea of life.

Should we not care for others because they made bad choices or were unlucky?

What is a choice? If one person lifts a bottle to his lips and is not affected by it, ignores it and goes to a life of study was that person stronger than the one who lifts a bottle to his / her lips and goes on a life long binge?

What do we have to consider there? That the two were the same? Do we have to consider their brain structure, their affinity to addiction? Their very genes?
Or can we just say that a is good and b is bad?

Of course it is easier to do the latter.

Occams razor is a theory that when you have to make least assumptions about a question the answer is right. The more you have to speculate, the less likely the answer is right.

But what about complicated problems? Like right here. The life of a person A and person B.

Can you compare?

Trump vs homeless person?

What is the thing that made Trump president of the united states / made the homeless person homeless. Did trump excel because of his free will / did the homeless person fail in some unforgivable fashion to become homeless?

Could Trump not have had any of the things I said far above happen to him and
die? Could the homeless person not have had some random lucky event that I did
not describe above that would have led that person to find his true gift and
excel? Maybe that person could have been a world class bicyclist that wont the
Tour De France ca 1995. But that one random event did not happen which would have led to it.

Why is the world such?

What do the answers tell about us?

I think that is the big one. What do the answers tell about us. If we just casually say, A is better than B. Then, it tells something about our callousness, about not wanting to spend our time thinking about it and
that leads to us building a world thus.

If how ever we think about it. Go to the voting box having thought about it
and vote someone who also thought about it. We build a different world.

If we recognize that we are sailing on this sea of life in a raft made of
sugar that is melting rapidly and we see other people around us doing the
same. From the homeless person to the president of the united states and
we do not do rash judgments. Then.

We care. We love one another. If we care and love one another. Then we
do not count out the guy who has to resort to dumpster diving. Or the
sociopath who became the president. We look at all of us with our faults
as a doctor would. Flawed things with different amounts of luck.

We look at reality. Instead of a story that the person told himself
or a story we told to ourselves to explain the world in simplified terms.

The thing is. We have no hope of understanding the world as it is. It is just
way too complicated. But in the end of the day, the one thing that matters is:

We are all human beings. With the same value. Divided, yet we share the experience of living.

Antti
Z***@none.i2p
2020-03-26 05:45:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Antti Luode wrote on Thu, 26 March 2020 05:39
[color=teal]>>
Post by Me
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Michael Pendragon
When my Grandmother was growing up in Philadelphia in the 1910s, she and her friends used to yell "Chinaman, Chinaman, eat dead rats!" whenever they'd pass a Chinese restaurant or laundry.
When my Grandfather was growing up in Brooklyn, he would fill a sock with flour and hit the Jewish kids in black clothing on the back. Both behaviors are wrong.
Of course they are.
My Grandmother was a child at the time and she and her friends were scared to death of the Chinese. This was during the time when everyone talked about the "Yellow Peril," and such.
My Grandfather was a bully; the Jewish kids were likely scared of him. He graduated from 8th grade 2nd in his class, yet the teacher sent him to 1st grade for a day because he was such a pest. He could still recite the "Cremation of Sam McGee" when I was a child.
My maternal grandparents were very kind and generous. They were both very forward thinkers, hardworking and god fearing. I'm grateful for being blessed with such amazing role models in my early years.
I guess it's what we choose to take from our youth that makes us who we become.
It's good to have role models.
My mother's parents were very loving and fiercely loyal to us. My father's mother was the closest thing I has to a role model, she thought for herself despite being kind and loving. My father did encouraged me to study and pursue a scientific career.
Sounds like you were lucky also.
Truthfully. Dumb luck or lack of it guides us all.
Our parents give us advice. But in the end of the day anything can happen
at any moment.
Our cells are little nuclear bombs that can go off at any time (cancer etc)..
Every time we drive a car, anything could happen.
Our families. If our parents had died when we were little.. If they were
afflicted in some way that made them unable to give us advice.
If we have genes that lean towards addiction, if we lifted that bottle to our lips.
Every day we go about our business. If something happened to us. A truck
veered off course. Someone at the factory made ice cream with dirty hands which gave us a food poisoning that sent us to hospital, where we caught MRSA and died.
If we came to the path of a madman. A thief in the night.
If a meteorite landed on us.
If a plane we were on crashed.
If a stray dog went nuts on us.
If a song pissed us off and we were loudly talking about it in a public transit and a druggie in a psychosis was offended.
If a electric appliance caught fire in the middle of the night as we were sleeping.
If we fell down doing whatever and struck our head.
If a viper, cobra or some poisonous snake popped out of a hole while we were having a picnic and bit us.
Or a hormone filled bull moose decided to decimate us with his antlers.
Or if a mosquito bit us and gave us the west nile disease. Or tick that gave us lyme disease, which went bad.
If we went to a gun range and some mad woman decided to blow our brains out..
(happened here some 10 years back)
If there was particularly large hail and we found ourselves outside. With no
cover.
If we found ourselves from a room rapidly filling with carbon monoxide, lets say we went to sauna and the chimney was closed (happens in Finland).
If we were walking on a glacier and the ice below us suddenly gave up.
If someone blew some rock without a rubber cover and one of the rocks from the explosion decided to fly straight to our head.
If a jet engine decided to fall on our heads after breaking free from a jet plane.
If we drank from some cup we thought was fancy and it was actually covered with some poisonous material that slowly drove us crazy and made us commit a suicide.
If a police that was chasing a violent criminal decided that we were him and decided to shoot us in the head.
If the patch of coffee we were drinking had somehow been laced with arsenic..
If we were following some instruction on the internet for building X and it did not go very well and the X turned out to be a death trap.
If the food we ate was not nutritious and we slowly killed ourselves due to malnutrition.
If the person we wrote to on the internet was a serial killer and chose us as his random victim.
If the doctor that was treating us, was tired of it all and decided to give us a pill that killed us.
If our clothes / shoes etc were laced with something poisonous accidentally and gave us a deadly rash.
If the medicine we ingested was actually made wrong and it killed us.
If the fast food we ate was made by some fool with corona virus and it killed us.
Do I have to go on?
Dumb luck keeps us alive.
Dumb luck makes us possibly smart and rich.
We do not control poop.
Writing the above made me realize.
What is the point?
All these personal stories of vindication we tell for ourselves. I guess it makes us feel good when we tell a story in which we are heroes that overcame insurmountable odds. But really?
What is the part of free will in a world that can kill us all day and all night long. How do we rise above our circumstances when it can be the very mind we have that is afflicted? How many "special" billionaires there are.
I do not know a single one.
Smart people have genes that make them able to retain information and cognitive functions good enough to process that information. "Stupid" people do not. The only hope for "stupid" people is luck. For smart people, they can use their faculties.
My previous epilepsy medication actually began to deteriorate my memory. One hell of a feeling. To realize it all depends on just some chemical balance in
my neurons. Throw that a little off and I am a drooling idiot.
This one gives me a better memory, but now my emotions are muted! Oh vey!
Yes! The very faculties are affected by dumb luck of upbringing, genes and
every day life. Why be proud?
If you find yourself from Ivy league college and you do well. Good. If you find yourself from a roadside picking up trash. Good.
Were you 100 % in control getting there? If you tell yourself yes. Well. It is not reality.
Free will. Is there free will?
What does free will amount up to in a world where we are like flawed ships sailing on the sea of life.
Should we not care for others because they made bad choices or were unlucky?
What is a choice? If one person lifts a bottle to his lips and is not affected by it, ignores it and goes to a life of study was that person stronger than the one who lifts a bottle to his / her lips and goes on a life long binge?
What do we have to consider there? That the two were the same? Do we have to consider their brain structure, their affinity to addiction? Their very genes?
Or can we just say that a is good and b is bad?
Of course it is easier to do the latter.
Occams razor is a theory that when you have to make least assumptions about a question the answer is right. The more you have to speculate, the less likely the answer is right.
But what about complicated problems? Like right here. The life of a person A and person B.
Can you compare?
Trump vs homeless person?
What is the thing that made Trump president of the united states / made the homeless person homeless. Did trump excel because of his free will / did the homeless person fail in some unforgivable fashion to become homeless?
Could Trump not have had any of the things I said far above happen to him and
die? Could the homeless person not have had some random lucky event that I did
not describe above that would have led that person to find his true gift and
excel? Maybe that person could have been a world class bicyclist that wont the
Tour De France ca 1995. But that one random event did not happen which would have led to it.
Why is the world such?
What do the answers tell about us?
I think that is the big one. What do the answers tell about us. If we just casually say, A is better than B. Then, it tells something about our callousness, about not wanting to spend our time thinking about it and
that leads to us building a world thus.
If how ever we think about it. Go to the voting box having thought about it
and vote someone who also thought about it. We build a different world.
If we recognize that we are sailing on this sea of life in a raft made of
sugar that is melting rapidly and we see other people around us doing the
same. From the homeless person to the president of the united states and
we do not do rash judgments. Then.
We care. We love one another. If we care and love one another. Then we
do not count out the guy who has to resort to dumpster diving. Or the
sociopath who became the president. We look at all of us with our faults
as a doctor would. Flawed things with different amounts of luck.
We look at reality. Instead of a story that the person told himself
or a story we told to ourselves to explain the world in simplified terms.
The thing is. We have no hope of understanding the world as it is. It is just
We are all human beings. With the same value. Divided, yet we share the experience of living.
Antti
Well put, Antti......
ME
2020-03-26 10:32:21 UTC
Reply
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Post by Antti
Post by Me
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Me
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by NancyGene
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
1. The coronavirus outbreak has been traced to a wet market in Wuhan, China.
2. The virus did not escape from a lab experiment.
3. The coronavirus resembles viruses that have been found in bats and pangolins.
4. Humans either contracted the virus directly from an animal or through an intermediate host which had contracted it from (probably) a bat.
5. Visit an Asian market in your community and let us know what you see.
6. Look at pictures of wet markets in China and read the descriptions.
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html
When my Grandmother was growing up in Philadelphia in the 1910s, she and her friends used to yell "Chinaman, Chinaman, eat dead rats!" whenever they'd pass a Chinese restaurant or laundry.
When my Grandfather was growing up in Brooklyn, he would fill a sock with flour and hit the Jewish kids in black clothing on the back. Both behaviors are wrong.
Of course they are.
My Grandmother was a child at the time and she and her friends were scared to death of the Chinese. This was during the time when everyone talked about the "Yellow Peril," and such.
My Grandfather was a bully; the Jewish kids were likely scared of him. He graduated from 8th grade 2nd in his class, yet the teacher sent him to 1st grade for a day because he was such a pest. He could still recite the "Cremation of Sam McGee" when I was a child.
My maternal grandparents were very kind and generous. They were both very forward thinkers, hardworking and god fearing. I’m grateful for being blessed with such amazing role models in my early years.
I guess it’s what we choose to take from our youth that makes us who we become.
It's good to have role models.
My mother's parents were very loving and fiercely loyal to us. My father's mother was the closest thing I has to a role model, she thought for herself despite being kind and loving. My father did encouraged me to study and pursue a scientific career.
Sounds like you were lucky also.
Truthfully. Dumb luck or lack of it guides us all.
Our parents give us advice. But in the end of the day anything can happen
at any moment.
Our cells are little nuclear bombs that can go off at any time (cancer etc).
Every time we drive a car, anything could happen.
Our families. If our parents had died when we were little.. If they were
afflicted in some way that made them unable to give us advice.
If we have genes that lean towards addiction, if we lifted that bottle to our lips.
Every day we go about our business. If something happened to us. A truck
veered off course. Someone at the factory made ice cream with dirty hands which gave us a food poisoning that sent us to hospital, where we caught MRSA and died.
If we came to the path of a madman. A thief in the night.
If a meteorite landed on us.
If a plane we were on crashed.
If a stray dog went nuts on us.
If a song pissed us off and we were loudly talking about it in a public transit and a druggie in a psychosis was offended.
If a electric appliance caught fire in the middle of the night as we were sleeping.
If we fell down doing whatever and struck our head.
If a viper, cobra or some poisonous snake popped out of a hole while we were having a picnic and bit us.
Or a hormone filled bull moose decided to decimate us with his antlers.
Or if a mosquito bit us and gave us the west nile disease. Or tick that gave us lyme disease, which went bad.
If we went to a gun range and some mad woman decided to blow our brains out.
(happened here some 10 years back)
If there was particularly large hail and we found ourselves outside. With no
cover.
If we found ourselves from a room rapidly filling with carbon monoxide, lets say we went to sauna and the chimney was closed (happens in Finland).
If we were walking on a glacier and the ice below us suddenly gave up.
If someone blew some rock without a rubber cover and one of the rocks from the explosion decided to fly straight to our head.
If a jet engine decided to fall on our heads after breaking free from a jet plane.
If we drank from some cup we thought was fancy and it was actually covered with some poisonous material that slowly drove us crazy and made us commit a suicide.
If a police that was chasing a violent criminal decided that we were him and decided to shoot us in the head.
If the patch of coffee we were drinking had somehow been laced with arsenic.
If we were following some instruction on the internet for building X and it did not go very well and the X turned out to be a death trap.
If the food we ate was not nutritious and we slowly killed ourselves due to malnutrition.
If the person we wrote to on the internet was a serial killer and chose us as his random victim.
If the doctor that was treating us, was tired of it all and decided to give us a pill that killed us.
If our clothes / shoes etc were laced with something poisonous accidentally and gave us a deadly rash.
If the medicine we ingested was actually made wrong and it killed us.
If the fast food we ate was made by some fool with corona virus and it killed us.
Do I have to go on?
Dumb luck keeps us alive.
Dumb luck makes us possibly smart and rich.
We do not control poop.
Writing the above made me realize.
What is the point?
All these personal stories of vindication we tell for ourselves. I guess it makes us feel good when we tell a story in which we are heroes that overcame insurmountable odds. But really?
What is the part of free will in a world that can kill us all day and all night long. How do we rise above our circumstances when it can be the very mind we have that is afflicted? How many "special" billionaires there are.
I do not know a single one.
Smart people have genes that make them able to retain information and cognitive functions good enough to process that information. "Stupid" people do not. The only hope for "stupid" people is luck. For smart people, they can use their faculties.
My previous epilepsy medication actually began to deteriorate my memory. One hell of a feeling. To realize it all depends on just some chemical balance in
my neurons. Throw that a little off and I am a drooling idiot.
This one gives me a better memory, but now my emotions are muted! Oh vey!
Yes! The very faculties are affected by dumb luck of upbringing, genes and
every day life. Why be proud?
If you find yourself from Ivy league college and you do well. Good. If you find yourself from a roadside picking up trash. Good.
Were you 100 % in control getting there? If you tell yourself yes. Well. It is not reality.
Free will. Is there free will?
What does free will amount up to in a world where we are like flawed ships sailing on the sea of life.
Should we not care for others because they made bad choices or were unlucky?
What is a choice? If one person lifts a bottle to his lips and is not affected by it, ignores it and goes to a life of study was that person stronger than the one who lifts a bottle to his / her lips and goes on a life long binge?
What do we have to consider there? That the two were the same? Do we have to consider their brain structure, their affinity to addiction? Their very genes?
Or can we just say that a is good and b is bad?
Of course it is easier to do the latter.
Occams razor is a theory that when you have to make least assumptions about a question the answer is right. The more you have to speculate, the less likely the answer is right.
But what about complicated problems? Like right here. The life of a person A and person B.
Can you compare?
Trump vs homeless person?
What is the thing that made Trump president of the united states / made the homeless person homeless. Did trump excel because of his free will / did the homeless person fail in some unforgivable fashion to become homeless?
Could Trump not have had any of the things I said far above happen to him and
die? Could the homeless person not have had some random lucky event that I did
not describe above that would have led that person to find his true gift and
excel? Maybe that person could have been a world class bicyclist that wont the
Tour De France ca 1995. But that one random event did not happen which would have led to it.
Why is the world such?
What do the answers tell about us?
I think that is the big one. What do the answers tell about us. If we just casually say, A is better than B. Then, it tells something about our callousness, about not wanting to spend our time thinking about it and
that leads to us building a world thus.
If how ever we think about it. Go to the voting box having thought about it
and vote someone who also thought about it. We build a different world.
If we recognize that we are sailing on this sea of life in a raft made of
sugar that is melting rapidly and we see other people around us doing the
same. From the homeless person to the president of the united states and
we do not do rash judgments. Then.
We care. We love one another. If we care and love one another. Then we
do not count out the guy who has to resort to dumpster diving. Or the
sociopath who became the president. We look at all of us with our faults
as a doctor would. Flawed things with different amounts of luck.
We look at reality. Instead of a story that the person told himself
or a story we told to ourselves to explain the world in simplified terms.
The thing is. We have no hope of understanding the world as it is. It is just
We are all human beings. With the same value. Divided, yet we share the experience of living.
Antti
Antti, caffeine is not your friend.
Hieronymous Corey
2020-03-26 11:01:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by ME
Post by Antti
Post by Me
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Me
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by NancyGene
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
1. The coronavirus outbreak has been traced to a wet market in Wuhan, China.
2. The virus did not escape from a lab experiment.
3. The coronavirus resembles viruses that have been found in bats and pangolins.
4. Humans either contracted the virus directly from an animal or through an intermediate host which had contracted it from (probably) a bat.
5. Visit an Asian market in your community and let us know what you see.
6. Look at pictures of wet markets in China and read the descriptions.
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html
When my Grandmother was growing up in Philadelphia in the 1910s, she and her friends used to yell "Chinaman, Chinaman, eat dead rats!" whenever they'd pass a Chinese restaurant or laundry.
When my Grandfather was growing up in Brooklyn, he would fill a sock with flour and hit the Jewish kids in black clothing on the back. Both behaviors are wrong.
Of course they are.
My Grandmother was a child at the time and she and her friends were scared to death of the Chinese. This was during the time when everyone talked about the "Yellow Peril," and such.
My Grandfather was a bully; the Jewish kids were likely scared of him. He graduated from 8th grade 2nd in his class, yet the teacher sent him to 1st grade for a day because he was such a pest. He could still recite the "Cremation of Sam McGee" when I was a child.
My maternal grandparents were very kind and generous. They were both very forward thinkers, hardworking and god fearing. I’m grateful for being blessed with such amazing role models in my early years.
I guess it’s what we choose to take from our youth that makes us who we become.
It's good to have role models.
My mother's parents were very loving and fiercely loyal to us. My father's mother was the closest thing I has to a role model, she thought for herself despite being kind and loving. My father did encouraged me to study and pursue a scientific career.
Sounds like you were lucky also.
Truthfully. Dumb luck or lack of it guides us all.
Our parents give us advice. But in the end of the day anything can happen
at any moment.
Our cells are little nuclear bombs that can go off at any time (cancer etc).
Every time we drive a car, anything could happen.
Our families. If our parents had died when we were little.. If they were
afflicted in some way that made them unable to give us advice.
If we have genes that lean towards addiction, if we lifted that bottle to our lips.
Every day we go about our business. If something happened to us. A truck
veered off course. Someone at the factory made ice cream with dirty hands which gave us a food poisoning that sent us to hospital, where we caught MRSA and died.
If we came to the path of a madman. A thief in the night.
If a meteorite landed on us.
If a plane we were on crashed.
If a stray dog went nuts on us.
If a song pissed us off and we were loudly talking about it in a public transit and a druggie in a psychosis was offended.
If a electric appliance caught fire in the middle of the night as we were sleeping.
If we fell down doing whatever and struck our head.
If a viper, cobra or some poisonous snake popped out of a hole while we were having a picnic and bit us.
Or a hormone filled bull moose decided to decimate us with his antlers.
Or if a mosquito bit us and gave us the west nile disease. Or tick that gave us lyme disease, which went bad.
If we went to a gun range and some mad woman decided to blow our brains out.
(happened here some 10 years back)
If there was particularly large hail and we found ourselves outside. With no
cover.
If we found ourselves from a room rapidly filling with carbon monoxide, lets say we went to sauna and the chimney was closed (happens in Finland).
If we were walking on a glacier and the ice below us suddenly gave up.
If someone blew some rock without a rubber cover and one of the rocks from the explosion decided to fly straight to our head.
If a jet engine decided to fall on our heads after breaking free from a jet plane.
If we drank from some cup we thought was fancy and it was actually covered with some poisonous material that slowly drove us crazy and made us commit a suicide.
If a police that was chasing a violent criminal decided that we were him and decided to shoot us in the head.
If the patch of coffee we were drinking had somehow been laced with arsenic.
If we were following some instruction on the internet for building X and it did not go very well and the X turned out to be a death trap.
If the food we ate was not nutritious and we slowly killed ourselves due to malnutrition.
If the person we wrote to on the internet was a serial killer and chose us as his random victim.
If the doctor that was treating us, was tired of it all and decided to give us a pill that killed us.
If our clothes / shoes etc were laced with something poisonous accidentally and gave us a deadly rash.
If the medicine we ingested was actually made wrong and it killed us.
If the fast food we ate was made by some fool with corona virus and it killed us.
Do I have to go on?
Dumb luck keeps us alive.
Dumb luck makes us possibly smart and rich.
We do not control poop.
Writing the above made me realize.
What is the point?
All these personal stories of vindication we tell for ourselves. I guess it makes us feel good when we tell a story in which we are heroes that overcame insurmountable odds. But really?
What is the part of free will in a world that can kill us all day and all night long. How do we rise above our circumstances when it can be the very mind we have that is afflicted? How many "special" billionaires there are.
I do not know a single one.
Smart people have genes that make them able to retain information and cognitive functions good enough to process that information. "Stupid" people do not. The only hope for "stupid" people is luck. For smart people, they can use their faculties.
My previous epilepsy medication actually began to deteriorate my memory. One hell of a feeling. To realize it all depends on just some chemical balance in
my neurons. Throw that a little off and I am a drooling idiot.
This one gives me a better memory, but now my emotions are muted! Oh vey!
Yes! The very faculties are affected by dumb luck of upbringing, genes and
every day life. Why be proud?
If you find yourself from Ivy league college and you do well. Good. If you find yourself from a roadside picking up trash. Good.
Were you 100 % in control getting there? If you tell yourself yes. Well. It is not reality.
Free will. Is there free will?
What does free will amount up to in a world where we are like flawed ships sailing on the sea of life.
Should we not care for others because they made bad choices or were unlucky?
What is a choice? If one person lifts a bottle to his lips and is not affected by it, ignores it and goes to a life of study was that person stronger than the one who lifts a bottle to his / her lips and goes on a life long binge?
What do we have to consider there? That the two were the same? Do we have to consider their brain structure, their affinity to addiction? Their very genes?
Or can we just say that a is good and b is bad?
Of course it is easier to do the latter.
Occams razor is a theory that when you have to make least assumptions about a question the answer is right. The more you have to speculate, the less likely the answer is right.
But what about complicated problems? Like right here. The life of a person A and person B.
Can you compare?
Trump vs homeless person?
What is the thing that made Trump president of the united states / made the homeless person homeless. Did trump excel because of his free will / did the homeless person fail in some unforgivable fashion to become homeless?
Could Trump not have had any of the things I said far above happen to him and
die? Could the homeless person not have had some random lucky event that I did
not describe above that would have led that person to find his true gift and
excel? Maybe that person could have been a world class bicyclist that wont the
Tour De France ca 1995. But that one random event did not happen which would have led to it.
Why is the world such?
What do the answers tell about us?
I think that is the big one. What do the answers tell about us. If we just casually say, A is better than B. Then, it tells something about our callousness, about not wanting to spend our time thinking about it and
that leads to us building a world thus.
If how ever we think about it. Go to the voting box having thought about it
and vote someone who also thought about it. We build a different world.
If we recognize that we are sailing on this sea of life in a raft made of
sugar that is melting rapidly and we see other people around us doing the
same. From the homeless person to the president of the united states and
we do not do rash judgments. Then.
We care. We love one another. If we care and love one another. Then we
do not count out the guy who has to resort to dumpster diving. Or the
sociopath who became the president. We look at all of us with our faults
as a doctor would. Flawed things with different amounts of luck.
We look at reality. Instead of a story that the person told himself
or a story we told to ourselves to explain the world in simplified terms.
The thing is. We have no hope of understanding the world as it is. It is just
We are all human beings. With the same value. Divided, yet we share the experience of living.
Antti
Antti, caffeine is not your friend.
Good morning, sweetheart!
Move your ass! Let’s GO!

Senora Esperanza
2020-04-20 13:24:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Hieronymous Corey
Post by ME
Post by Antti
Post by Me
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Me
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by NancyGene
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
1. The coronavirus outbreak has been traced to a wet market in Wuhan, China.
2. The virus did not escape from a lab experiment.
3. The coronavirus resembles viruses that have been found in bats and pangolins.
4. Humans either contracted the virus directly from an animal or through an intermediate host which had contracted it from (probably) a bat.
5. Visit an Asian market in your community and let us know what you see.
6. Look at pictures of wet markets in China and read the descriptions.
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html
When my Grandmother was growing up in Philadelphia in the 1910s, she and her friends used to yell "Chinaman, Chinaman, eat dead rats!" whenever they'd pass a Chinese restaurant or laundry.
When my Grandfather was growing up in Brooklyn, he would fill a sock with flour and hit the Jewish kids in black clothing on the back. Both behaviors are wrong.
Of course they are.
My Grandmother was a child at the time and she and her friends were scared to death of the Chinese. This was during the time when everyone talked about the "Yellow Peril," and such.
My Grandfather was a bully; the Jewish kids were likely scared of him. He graduated from 8th grade 2nd in his class, yet the teacher sent him to 1st grade for a day because he was such a pest. He could still recite the "Cremation of Sam McGee" when I was a child.
My maternal grandparents were very kind and generous. They were both very forward thinkers, hardworking and god fearing. I’m grateful for being blessed with such amazing role models in my early years.
I guess it’s what we choose to take from our youth that makes us who we become.
It's good to have role models.
My mother's parents were very loving and fiercely loyal to us. My father's mother was the closest thing I has to a role model, she thought for herself despite being kind and loving. My father did encouraged me to study and pursue a scientific career.
Sounds like you were lucky also.
Truthfully. Dumb luck or lack of it guides us all.
Our parents give us advice. But in the end of the day anything can happen
at any moment.
Our cells are little nuclear bombs that can go off at any time (cancer etc).
Every time we drive a car, anything could happen.
Our families. If our parents had died when we were little.. If they were
afflicted in some way that made them unable to give us advice.
If we have genes that lean towards addiction, if we lifted that bottle to our lips.
Every day we go about our business. If something happened to us. A truck
veered off course. Someone at the factory made ice cream with dirty hands which gave us a food poisoning that sent us to hospital, where we caught MRSA and died.
If we came to the path of a madman. A thief in the night.
If a meteorite landed on us.
If a plane we were on crashed.
If a stray dog went nuts on us.
If a song pissed us off and we were loudly talking about it in a public transit and a druggie in a psychosis was offended.
If a electric appliance caught fire in the middle of the night as we were sleeping.
If we fell down doing whatever and struck our head.
If a viper, cobra or some poisonous snake popped out of a hole while we were having a picnic and bit us.
Or a hormone filled bull moose decided to decimate us with his antlers.
Or if a mosquito bit us and gave us the west nile disease. Or tick that gave us lyme disease, which went bad.
If we went to a gun range and some mad woman decided to blow our brains out.
(happened here some 10 years back)
If there was particularly large hail and we found ourselves outside. With no
cover.
If we found ourselves from a room rapidly filling with carbon monoxide, lets say we went to sauna and the chimney was closed (happens in Finland).
If we were walking on a glacier and the ice below us suddenly gave up.
If someone blew some rock without a rubber cover and one of the rocks from the explosion decided to fly straight to our head.
If a jet engine decided to fall on our heads after breaking free from a jet plane.
If we drank from some cup we thought was fancy and it was actually covered with some poisonous material that slowly drove us crazy and made us commit a suicide.
If a police that was chasing a violent criminal decided that we were him and decided to shoot us in the head.
If the patch of coffee we were drinking had somehow been laced with arsenic.
If we were following some instruction on the internet for building X and it did not go very well and the X turned out to be a death trap.
If the food we ate was not nutritious and we slowly killed ourselves due to malnutrition.
If the person we wrote to on the internet was a serial killer and chose us as his random victim.
If the doctor that was treating us, was tired of it all and decided to give us a pill that killed us.
If our clothes / shoes etc were laced with something poisonous accidentally and gave us a deadly rash.
If the medicine we ingested was actually made wrong and it killed us.
If the fast food we ate was made by some fool with corona virus and it killed us.
Do I have to go on?
Dumb luck keeps us alive.
Dumb luck makes us possibly smart and rich.
We do not control poop.
Writing the above made me realize.
What is the point?
All these personal stories of vindication we tell for ourselves. I guess it makes us feel good when we tell a story in which we are heroes that overcame insurmountable odds. But really?
What is the part of free will in a world that can kill us all day and all night long. How do we rise above our circumstances when it can be the very mind we have that is afflicted? How many "special" billionaires there are.
I do not know a single one.
Smart people have genes that make them able to retain information and cognitive functions good enough to process that information. "Stupid" people do not. The only hope for "stupid" people is luck. For smart people, they can use their faculties.
My previous epilepsy medication actually began to deteriorate my memory. One hell of a feeling. To realize it all depends on just some chemical balance in
my neurons. Throw that a little off and I am a drooling idiot.
This one gives me a better memory, but now my emotions are muted! Oh vey!
Yes! The very faculties are affected by dumb luck of upbringing, genes and
every day life. Why be proud?
If you find yourself from Ivy league college and you do well. Good. If you find yourself from a roadside picking up trash. Good.
Were you 100 % in control getting there? If you tell yourself yes. Well. It is not reality.
Free will. Is there free will?
What does free will amount up to in a world where we are like flawed ships sailing on the sea of life.
Should we not care for others because they made bad choices or were unlucky?
What is a choice? If one person lifts a bottle to his lips and is not affected by it, ignores it and goes to a life of study was that person stronger than the one who lifts a bottle to his / her lips and goes on a life long binge?
What do we have to consider there? That the two were the same? Do we have to consider their brain structure, their affinity to addiction? Their very genes?
Or can we just say that a is good and b is bad?
Of course it is easier to do the latter.
Occams razor is a theory that when you have to make least assumptions about a question the answer is right. The more you have to speculate, the less likely the answer is right.
But what about complicated problems? Like right here. The life of a person A and person B.
Can you compare?
Trump vs homeless person?
What is the thing that made Trump president of the united states / made the homeless person homeless. Did trump excel because of his free will / did the homeless person fail in some unforgivable fashion to become homeless?
Could Trump not have had any of the things I said far above happen to him and
die? Could the homeless person not have had some random lucky event that I did
not describe above that would have led that person to find his true gift and
excel? Maybe that person could have been a world class bicyclist that wont the
Tour De France ca 1995. But that one random event did not happen which would have led to it.
Why is the world such?
What do the answers tell about us?
I think that is the big one. What do the answers tell about us. If we just casually say, A is better than B. Then, it tells something about our callousness, about not wanting to spend our time thinking about it and
that leads to us building a world thus.
If how ever we think about it. Go to the voting box having thought about it
and vote someone who also thought about it. We build a different world.
If we recognize that we are sailing on this sea of life in a raft made of
sugar that is melting rapidly and we see other people around us doing the
same. From the homeless person to the president of the united states and
we do not do rash judgments. Then.
We care. We love one another. If we care and love one another. Then we
do not count out the guy who has to resort to dumpster diving. Or the
sociopath who became the president. We look at all of us with our faults
as a doctor would. Flawed things with different amounts of luck.
We look at reality. Instead of a story that the person told himself
or a story we told to ourselves to explain the world in simplified terms.
The thing is. We have no hope of understanding the world as it is. It is just
We are all human beings. With the same value. Divided, yet we share the experience of living.
Antti
Antti, caffeine is not your friend.
Good morning, sweetheart!
Move your ass! Let’s GO!
http://youtu.be/-oAMTAJcUUE
It that you playing the guitar and singing in the "Mobile Record" video on your channel? That was really nice.
Hieronymous Corey
2020-04-20 13:50:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Senora Esperanza
Post by Hieronymous Corey
Post by ME
Post by Antti
Post by Me
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Me
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by NancyGene
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
1. The coronavirus outbreak has been traced to a wet market in Wuhan, China.
2. The virus did not escape from a lab experiment.
3. The coronavirus resembles viruses that have been found in bats and pangolins.
4. Humans either contracted the virus directly from an animal or through an intermediate host which had contracted it from (probably) a bat.
5. Visit an Asian market in your community and let us know what you see.
6. Look at pictures of wet markets in China and read the descriptions.
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html
When my Grandmother was growing up in Philadelphia in the 1910s, she and her friends used to yell "Chinaman, Chinaman, eat dead rats!" whenever they'd pass a Chinese restaurant or laundry.
When my Grandfather was growing up in Brooklyn, he would fill a sock with flour and hit the Jewish kids in black clothing on the back. Both behaviors are wrong.
Of course they are.
My Grandmother was a child at the time and she and her friends were scared to death of the Chinese. This was during the time when everyone talked about the "Yellow Peril," and such.
My Grandfather was a bully; the Jewish kids were likely scared of him. He graduated from 8th grade 2nd in his class, yet the teacher sent him to 1st grade for a day because he was such a pest. He could still recite the "Cremation of Sam McGee" when I was a child.
My maternal grandparents were very kind and generous. They were both very forward thinkers, hardworking and god fearing. I’m grateful for being blessed with such amazing role models in my early years.
I guess it’s what we choose to take from our youth that makes us who we become.
It's good to have role models.
My mother's parents were very loving and fiercely loyal to us. My father's mother was the closest thing I has to a role model, she thought for herself despite being kind and loving. My father did encouraged me to study and pursue a scientific career.
Sounds like you were lucky also.
Truthfully. Dumb luck or lack of it guides us all.
Our parents give us advice. But in the end of the day anything can happen
at any moment.
Our cells are little nuclear bombs that can go off at any time (cancer etc).
Every time we drive a car, anything could happen.
Our families. If our parents had died when we were little.. If they were
afflicted in some way that made them unable to give us advice.
If we have genes that lean towards addiction, if we lifted that bottle to our lips.
Every day we go about our business. If something happened to us. A truck
veered off course. Someone at the factory made ice cream with dirty hands which gave us a food poisoning that sent us to hospital, where we caught MRSA and died.
If we came to the path of a madman. A thief in the night.
If a meteorite landed on us.
If a plane we were on crashed.
If a stray dog went nuts on us.
If a song pissed us off and we were loudly talking about it in a public transit and a druggie in a psychosis was offended.
If a electric appliance caught fire in the middle of the night as we were sleeping.
If we fell down doing whatever and struck our head.
If a viper, cobra or some poisonous snake popped out of a hole while we were having a picnic and bit us.
Or a hormone filled bull moose decided to decimate us with his antlers.
Or if a mosquito bit us and gave us the west nile disease. Or tick that gave us lyme disease, which went bad.
If we went to a gun range and some mad woman decided to blow our brains out.
(happened here some 10 years back)
If there was particularly large hail and we found ourselves outside. With no
cover.
If we found ourselves from a room rapidly filling with carbon monoxide, lets say we went to sauna and the chimney was closed (happens in Finland).
If we were walking on a glacier and the ice below us suddenly gave up.
If someone blew some rock without a rubber cover and one of the rocks from the explosion decided to fly straight to our head.
If a jet engine decided to fall on our heads after breaking free from a jet plane.
If we drank from some cup we thought was fancy and it was actually covered with some poisonous material that slowly drove us crazy and made us commit a suicide.
If a police that was chasing a violent criminal decided that we were him and decided to shoot us in the head.
If the patch of coffee we were drinking had somehow been laced with arsenic.
If we were following some instruction on the internet for building X and it did not go very well and the X turned out to be a death trap.
If the food we ate was not nutritious and we slowly killed ourselves due to malnutrition.
If the person we wrote to on the internet was a serial killer and chose us as his random victim.
If the doctor that was treating us, was tired of it all and decided to give us a pill that killed us.
If our clothes / shoes etc were laced with something poisonous accidentally and gave us a deadly rash.
If the medicine we ingested was actually made wrong and it killed us.
If the fast food we ate was made by some fool with corona virus and it killed us.
Do I have to go on?
Dumb luck keeps us alive.
Dumb luck makes us possibly smart and rich.
We do not control poop.
Writing the above made me realize.
What is the point?
All these personal stories of vindication we tell for ourselves. I guess it makes us feel good when we tell a story in which we are heroes that overcame insurmountable odds. But really?
What is the part of free will in a world that can kill us all day and all night long. How do we rise above our circumstances when it can be the very mind we have that is afflicted? How many "special" billionaires there are.
I do not know a single one.
Smart people have genes that make them able to retain information and cognitive functions good enough to process that information. "Stupid" people do not. The only hope for "stupid" people is luck. For smart people, they can use their faculties.
My previous epilepsy medication actually began to deteriorate my memory. One hell of a feeling. To realize it all depends on just some chemical balance in
my neurons. Throw that a little off and I am a drooling idiot.
This one gives me a better memory, but now my emotions are muted! Oh vey!
Yes! The very faculties are affected by dumb luck of upbringing, genes and
every day life. Why be proud?
If you find yourself from Ivy league college and you do well. Good. If you find yourself from a roadside picking up trash. Good.
Were you 100 % in control getting there? If you tell yourself yes. Well. It is not reality.
Free will. Is there free will?
What does free will amount up to in a world where we are like flawed ships sailing on the sea of life.
Should we not care for others because they made bad choices or were unlucky?
What is a choice? If one person lifts a bottle to his lips and is not affected by it, ignores it and goes to a life of study was that person stronger than the one who lifts a bottle to his / her lips and goes on a life long binge?
What do we have to consider there? That the two were the same? Do we have to consider their brain structure, their affinity to addiction? Their very genes?
Or can we just say that a is good and b is bad?
Of course it is easier to do the latter.
Occams razor is a theory that when you have to make least assumptions about a question the answer is right. The more you have to speculate, the less likely the answer is right.
But what about complicated problems? Like right here. The life of a person A and person B.
Can you compare?
Trump vs homeless person?
What is the thing that made Trump president of the united states / made the homeless person homeless. Did trump excel because of his free will / did the homeless person fail in some unforgivable fashion to become homeless?
Could Trump not have had any of the things I said far above happen to him and
die? Could the homeless person not have had some random lucky event that I did
not describe above that would have led that person to find his true gift and
excel? Maybe that person could have been a world class bicyclist that wont the
Tour De France ca 1995. But that one random event did not happen which would have led to it.
Why is the world such?
What do the answers tell about us?
I think that is the big one. What do the answers tell about us. If we just casually say, A is better than B. Then, it tells something about our callousness, about not wanting to spend our time thinking about it and
that leads to us building a world thus.
If how ever we think about it. Go to the voting box having thought about it
and vote someone who also thought about it. We build a different world.
If we recognize that we are sailing on this sea of life in a raft made of
sugar that is melting rapidly and we see other people around us doing the
same. From the homeless person to the president of the united states and
we do not do rash judgments. Then.
We care. We love one another. If we care and love one another. Then we
do not count out the guy who has to resort to dumpster diving. Or the
sociopath who became the president. We look at all of us with our faults
as a doctor would. Flawed things with different amounts of luck.
We look at reality. Instead of a story that the person told himself
or a story we told to ourselves to explain the world in simplified terms.
The thing is. We have no hope of understanding the world as it is. It is just
We are all human beings. With the same value. Divided, yet we share the experience of living.
Antti
Antti, caffeine is not your friend.
Good morning, sweetheart!
Move your ass! Let’s GO!
http://youtu.be/-oAMTAJcUUE
It that you playing the guitar and singing in the "Mobile Record" video on your channel? That was really nice.
Nope. That was me holding the camera.
That guy’s name is Juan Vladilo from the
salsa - Latin jazz orchestra, Ocho Rios.
http://www.chirike.com/8rios_en.html
Senora Esperanza
2020-04-20 20:09:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Hieronymous Corey
Post by Senora Esperanza
Post by Hieronymous Corey
Post by ME
Post by Antti
Post by Me
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Me
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by NancyGene
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
1. The coronavirus outbreak has been traced to a wet market in Wuhan, China.
2. The virus did not escape from a lab experiment.
3. The coronavirus resembles viruses that have been found in bats and pangolins.
4. Humans either contracted the virus directly from an animal or through an intermediate host which had contracted it from (probably) a bat.
5. Visit an Asian market in your community and let us know what you see.
6. Look at pictures of wet markets in China and read the descriptions.
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html
When my Grandmother was growing up in Philadelphia in the 1910s, she and her friends used to yell "Chinaman, Chinaman, eat dead rats!" whenever they'd pass a Chinese restaurant or laundry.
When my Grandfather was growing up in Brooklyn, he would fill a sock with flour and hit the Jewish kids in black clothing on the back. Both behaviors are wrong.
Of course they are.
My Grandmother was a child at the time and she and her friends were scared to death of the Chinese. This was during the time when everyone talked about the "Yellow Peril," and such.
My Grandfather was a bully; the Jewish kids were likely scared of him. He graduated from 8th grade 2nd in his class, yet the teacher sent him to 1st grade for a day because he was such a pest. He could still recite the "Cremation of Sam McGee" when I was a child.
My maternal grandparents were very kind and generous. They were both very forward thinkers, hardworking and god fearing. I’m grateful for being blessed with such amazing role models in my early years.
I guess it’s what we choose to take from our youth that makes us who we become.
It's good to have role models.
My mother's parents were very loving and fiercely loyal to us. My father's mother was the closest thing I has to a role model, she thought for herself despite being kind and loving. My father did encouraged me to study and pursue a scientific career.
Sounds like you were lucky also.
Truthfully. Dumb luck or lack of it guides us all.
Our parents give us advice. But in the end of the day anything can happen
at any moment.
Our cells are little nuclear bombs that can go off at any time (cancer etc).
Every time we drive a car, anything could happen.
Our families. If our parents had died when we were little.. If they were
afflicted in some way that made them unable to give us advice.
If we have genes that lean towards addiction, if we lifted that bottle to our lips.
Every day we go about our business. If something happened to us. A truck
veered off course. Someone at the factory made ice cream with dirty hands which gave us a food poisoning that sent us to hospital, where we caught MRSA and died.
If we came to the path of a madman. A thief in the night.
If a meteorite landed on us.
If a plane we were on crashed.
If a stray dog went nuts on us.
If a song pissed us off and we were loudly talking about it in a public transit and a druggie in a psychosis was offended.
If a electric appliance caught fire in the middle of the night as we were sleeping.
If we fell down doing whatever and struck our head.
If a viper, cobra or some poisonous snake popped out of a hole while we were having a picnic and bit us.
Or a hormone filled bull moose decided to decimate us with his antlers.
Or if a mosquito bit us and gave us the west nile disease. Or tick that gave us lyme disease, which went bad.
If we went to a gun range and some mad woman decided to blow our brains out.
(happened here some 10 years back)
If there was particularly large hail and we found ourselves outside. With no
cover.
If we found ourselves from a room rapidly filling with carbon monoxide, lets say we went to sauna and the chimney was closed (happens in Finland).
If we were walking on a glacier and the ice below us suddenly gave up.
If someone blew some rock without a rubber cover and one of the rocks from the explosion decided to fly straight to our head.
If a jet engine decided to fall on our heads after breaking free from a jet plane.
If we drank from some cup we thought was fancy and it was actually covered with some poisonous material that slowly drove us crazy and made us commit a suicide.
If a police that was chasing a violent criminal decided that we were him and decided to shoot us in the head.
If the patch of coffee we were drinking had somehow been laced with arsenic.
If we were following some instruction on the internet for building X and it did not go very well and the X turned out to be a death trap.
If the food we ate was not nutritious and we slowly killed ourselves due to malnutrition.
If the person we wrote to on the internet was a serial killer and chose us as his random victim.
If the doctor that was treating us, was tired of it all and decided to give us a pill that killed us.
If our clothes / shoes etc were laced with something poisonous accidentally and gave us a deadly rash.
If the medicine we ingested was actually made wrong and it killed us.
If the fast food we ate was made by some fool with corona virus and it killed us.
Do I have to go on?
Dumb luck keeps us alive.
Dumb luck makes us possibly smart and rich.
We do not control poop.
Writing the above made me realize.
What is the point?
All these personal stories of vindication we tell for ourselves. I guess it makes us feel good when we tell a story in which we are heroes that overcame insurmountable odds. But really?
What is the part of free will in a world that can kill us all day and all night long. How do we rise above our circumstances when it can be the very mind we have that is afflicted? How many "special" billionaires there are.
I do not know a single one.
Smart people have genes that make them able to retain information and cognitive functions good enough to process that information. "Stupid" people do not. The only hope for "stupid" people is luck. For smart people, they can use their faculties.
My previous epilepsy medication actually began to deteriorate my memory. One hell of a feeling. To realize it all depends on just some chemical balance in
my neurons. Throw that a little off and I am a drooling idiot.
This one gives me a better memory, but now my emotions are muted! Oh vey!
Yes! The very faculties are affected by dumb luck of upbringing, genes and
every day life. Why be proud?
If you find yourself from Ivy league college and you do well. Good. If you find yourself from a roadside picking up trash. Good.
Were you 100 % in control getting there? If you tell yourself yes. Well. It is not reality.
Free will. Is there free will?
What does free will amount up to in a world where we are like flawed ships sailing on the sea of life.
Should we not care for others because they made bad choices or were unlucky?
What is a choice? If one person lifts a bottle to his lips and is not affected by it, ignores it and goes to a life of study was that person stronger than the one who lifts a bottle to his / her lips and goes on a life long binge?
What do we have to consider there? That the two were the same? Do we have to consider their brain structure, their affinity to addiction? Their very genes?
Or can we just say that a is good and b is bad?
Of course it is easier to do the latter.
Occams razor is a theory that when you have to make least assumptions about a question the answer is right. The more you have to speculate, the less likely the answer is right.
But what about complicated problems? Like right here. The life of a person A and person B.
Can you compare?
Trump vs homeless person?
What is the thing that made Trump president of the united states / made the homeless person homeless. Did trump excel because of his free will / did the homeless person fail in some unforgivable fashion to become homeless?
Could Trump not have had any of the things I said far above happen to him and
die? Could the homeless person not have had some random lucky event that I did
not describe above that would have led that person to find his true gift and
excel? Maybe that person could have been a world class bicyclist that wont the
Tour De France ca 1995. But that one random event did not happen which would have led to it.
Why is the world such?
What do the answers tell about us?
I think that is the big one. What do the answers tell about us. If we just casually say, A is better than B. Then, it tells something about our callousness, about not wanting to spend our time thinking about it and
that leads to us building a world thus.
If how ever we think about it. Go to the voting box having thought about it
and vote someone who also thought about it. We build a different world.
If we recognize that we are sailing on this sea of life in a raft made of
sugar that is melting rapidly and we see other people around us doing the
same. From the homeless person to the president of the united states and
we do not do rash judgments. Then.
We care. We love one another. If we care and love one another. Then we
do not count out the guy who has to resort to dumpster diving. Or the
sociopath who became the president. We look at all of us with our faults
as a doctor would. Flawed things with different amounts of luck.
We look at reality. Instead of a story that the person told himself
or a story we told to ourselves to explain the world in simplified terms.
The thing is. We have no hope of understanding the world as it is. It is just
We are all human beings. With the same value. Divided, yet we share the experience of living.
Antti
Antti, caffeine is not your friend.
Good morning, sweetheart!
Move your ass! Let’s GO!
http://youtu.be/-oAMTAJcUUE
It that you playing the guitar and singing in the "Mobile Record" video on your channel? That was really nice.
Nope. That was me holding the camera.
That guy’s name is Juan Vladilo from the
salsa - Latin jazz orchestra, Ocho Rios.
http://www.chirike.com/8rios_en.html
Thank you for the info and the link.
-Esperanza
Michael Pendragon
2020-03-27 03:30:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Antti
Post by Me
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Me
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by NancyGene
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
1. The coronavirus outbreak has been traced to a wet market in Wuhan, China.
2. The virus did not escape from a lab experiment.
3. The coronavirus resembles viruses that have been found in bats and pangolins.
4. Humans either contracted the virus directly from an animal or through an intermediate host which had contracted it from (probably) a bat.
5. Visit an Asian market in your community and let us know what you see.
6. Look at pictures of wet markets in China and read the descriptions.
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html
When my Grandmother was growing up in Philadelphia in the 1910s, she and her friends used to yell "Chinaman, Chinaman, eat dead rats!" whenever they'd pass a Chinese restaurant or laundry.
When my Grandfather was growing up in Brooklyn, he would fill a sock with flour and hit the Jewish kids in black clothing on the back. Both behaviors are wrong.
Of course they are.
My Grandmother was a child at the time and she and her friends were scared to death of the Chinese. This was during the time when everyone talked about the "Yellow Peril," and such.
My Grandfather was a bully; the Jewish kids were likely scared of him. He graduated from 8th grade 2nd in his class, yet the teacher sent him to 1st grade for a day because he was such a pest. He could still recite the "Cremation of Sam McGee" when I was a child.
My maternal grandparents were very kind and generous. They were both very forward thinkers, hardworking and god fearing. I’m grateful for being blessed with such amazing role models in my early years.
I guess it’s what we choose to take from our youth that makes us who we become.
It's good to have role models.
My mother's parents were very loving and fiercely loyal to us. My father's mother was the closest thing I has to a role model, she thought for herself despite being kind and loving. My father did encouraged me to study and pursue a scientific career.
Sounds like you were lucky also.
Truthfully. Dumb luck or lack of it guides us all.
Our parents give us advice. But in the end of the day anything can happen
at any moment.
Our cells are little nuclear bombs that can go off at any time (cancer etc).
Every time we drive a car, anything could happen.
Our families. If our parents had died when we were little.. If they were
afflicted in some way that made them unable to give us advice.
If we have genes that lean towards addiction, if we lifted that bottle to our lips.
Every day we go about our business. If something happened to us. A truck
veered off course. Someone at the factory made ice cream with dirty hands which gave us a food poisoning that sent us to hospital, where we caught MRSA and died.
If we came to the path of a madman. A thief in the night.
If a meteorite landed on us.
If a plane we were on crashed.
If a stray dog went nuts on us.
If a song pissed us off and we were loudly talking about it in a public transit and a druggie in a psychosis was offended.
If a electric appliance caught fire in the middle of the night as we were sleeping.
If we fell down doing whatever and struck our head.
If a viper, cobra or some poisonous snake popped out of a hole while we were having a picnic and bit us.
Or a hormone filled bull moose decided to decimate us with his antlers.
Or if a mosquito bit us and gave us the west nile disease. Or tick that gave us lyme disease, which went bad.
If we went to a gun range and some mad woman decided to blow our brains out.
(happened here some 10 years back)
If there was particularly large hail and we found ourselves outside. With no
cover.
If we found ourselves from a room rapidly filling with carbon monoxide, lets say we went to sauna and the chimney was closed (happens in Finland).
If we were walking on a glacier and the ice below us suddenly gave up.
If someone blew some rock without a rubber cover and one of the rocks from the explosion decided to fly straight to our head.
If a jet engine decided to fall on our heads after breaking free from a jet plane.
If we drank from some cup we thought was fancy and it was actually covered with some poisonous material that slowly drove us crazy and made us commit a suicide.
If a police that was chasing a violent criminal decided that we were him and decided to shoot us in the head.
If the patch of coffee we were drinking had somehow been laced with arsenic.
If we were following some instruction on the internet for building X and it did not go very well and the X turned out to be a death trap.
If the food we ate was not nutritious and we slowly killed ourselves due to malnutrition.
If the person we wrote to on the internet was a serial killer and chose us as his random victim.
If the doctor that was treating us, was tired of it all and decided to give us a pill that killed us.
If our clothes / shoes etc were laced with something poisonous accidentally and gave us a deadly rash.
If the medicine we ingested was actually made wrong and it killed us.
If the fast food we ate was made by some fool with corona virus and it killed us.
Do I have to go on?
Dumb luck keeps us alive.
Dumb luck makes us possibly smart and rich.
We do not control poop.
Writing the above made me realize.
What is the point?
All these personal stories of vindication we tell for ourselves. I guess it makes us feel good when we tell a story in which we are heroes that overcame insurmountable odds. But really?
What is the part of free will in a world that can kill us all day and all night long. How do we rise above our circumstances when it can be the very mind we have that is afflicted? How many "special" billionaires there are.
I do not know a single one.
Smart people have genes that make them able to retain information and cognitive functions good enough to process that information. "Stupid" people do not. The only hope for "stupid" people is luck. For smart people, they can use their faculties.
My previous epilepsy medication actually began to deteriorate my memory. One hell of a feeling. To realize it all depends on just some chemical balance in
my neurons. Throw that a little off and I am a drooling idiot.
This one gives me a better memory, but now my emotions are muted! Oh vey!
Yes! The very faculties are affected by dumb luck of upbringing, genes and
every day life. Why be proud?
If you find yourself from Ivy league college and you do well. Good. If you find yourself from a roadside picking up trash. Good.
Were you 100 % in control getting there? If you tell yourself yes. Well. It is not reality.
Free will. Is there free will?
What does free will amount up to in a world where we are like flawed ships sailing on the sea of life.
Should we not care for others because they made bad choices or were unlucky?
What is a choice? If one person lifts a bottle to his lips and is not affected by it, ignores it and goes to a life of study was that person stronger than the one who lifts a bottle to his / her lips and goes on a life long binge?
What do we have to consider there? That the two were the same? Do we have to consider their brain structure, their affinity to addiction? Their very genes?
Or can we just say that a is good and b is bad?
Of course it is easier to do the latter.
Occams razor is a theory that when you have to make least assumptions about a question the answer is right. The more you have to speculate, the less likely the answer is right.
But what about complicated problems? Like right here. The life of a person A and person B.
Can you compare?
Trump vs homeless person?
What is the thing that made Trump president of the united states / made the homeless person homeless. Did trump excel because of his free will / did the homeless person fail in some unforgivable fashion to become homeless?
Could Trump not have had any of the things I said far above happen to him and
die? Could the homeless person not have had some random lucky event that I did
not describe above that would have led that person to find his true gift and
excel? Maybe that person could have been a world class bicyclist that wont the
Tour De France ca 1995. But that one random event did not happen which would have led to it.
Why is the world such?
What do the answers tell about us?
I think that is the big one. What do the answers tell about us. If we just casually say, A is better than B. Then, it tells something about our callousness, about not wanting to spend our time thinking about it and
that leads to us building a world thus.
If how ever we think about it. Go to the voting box having thought about it
and vote someone who also thought about it. We build a different world.
If we recognize that we are sailing on this sea of life in a raft made of
sugar that is melting rapidly and we see other people around us doing the
same. From the homeless person to the president of the united states and
we do not do rash judgments. Then.
We care. We love one another. If we care and love one another. Then we
do not count out the guy who has to resort to dumpster diving. Or the
sociopath who became the president. We look at all of us with our faults
as a doctor would. Flawed things with different amounts of luck.
We look at reality. Instead of a story that the person told himself
or a story we told to ourselves to explain the world in simplified terms.
The thing is. We have no hope of understanding the world as it is. It is just
We are all human beings. With the same value. Divided, yet we share the experience of living.
Antti
You're talking about chance, not free will.

Free will does not refer to the chance events that can affect the outcome of our life circumstances.

Free will is simply the ability to choose between two or more alternatives.

And, no... none of us has ever had any power over the choices he/she made.

We are genetically hard-wired to act in what we believe to be our own best interest. We may be mistaken as to what our best interest is, but we must do what we *think* best all the same.

Chance is also an illusion. Everything happens exactly as it is supposed to happen -- as it has always happened and will always happen.

Time is non-linear. Every moment of our lives from the cradle to the grave came into existence simultaneously. Every moment has always already happened. We are simply viewing our lives progressively, as we would scan across the images on a strip of film.

I am writing this to you because I have always written this to you -- because I am always writing this to you -- because nothing every changes and because nothing *can* ever change.

Is there any meaning to any of this? No.

Is there any meaning to anything in this life? No.

In a predetermined world devoid of free will is there even any such thing as life? No.

Should this realization upset us? No. We have no actual existence anyway.
Antti
2020-03-27 13:01:40 UTC
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Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by Antti
Post by Me
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Me
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by NancyGene
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
1. The coronavirus outbreak has been traced to a wet market in Wuhan, China.
2. The virus did not escape from a lab experiment.
3. The coronavirus resembles viruses that have been found in bats and pangolins.
4. Humans either contracted the virus directly from an animal or through an intermediate host which had contracted it from (probably) a bat.
5. Visit an Asian market in your community and let us know what you see.
6. Look at pictures of wet markets in China and read the descriptions.
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html
When my Grandmother was growing up in Philadelphia in the 1910s, she and her friends used to yell "Chinaman, Chinaman, eat dead rats!" whenever they'd pass a Chinese restaurant or laundry.
When my Grandfather was growing up in Brooklyn, he would fill a sock with flour and hit the Jewish kids in black clothing on the back. Both behaviors are wrong.
Of course they are.
My Grandmother was a child at the time and she and her friends were scared to death of the Chinese. This was during the time when everyone talked about the "Yellow Peril," and such.
My Grandfather was a bully; the Jewish kids were likely scared of him. He graduated from 8th grade 2nd in his class, yet the teacher sent him to 1st grade for a day because he was such a pest. He could still recite the "Cremation of Sam McGee" when I was a child.
My maternal grandparents were very kind and generous. They were both very forward thinkers, hardworking and god fearing. I’m grateful for being blessed with such amazing role models in my early years.
I guess it’s what we choose to take from our youth that makes us who we become.
It's good to have role models.
My mother's parents were very loving and fiercely loyal to us. My father's mother was the closest thing I has to a role model, she thought for herself despite being kind and loving. My father did encouraged me to study and pursue a scientific career.
Sounds like you were lucky also.
Truthfully. Dumb luck or lack of it guides us all.
Our parents give us advice. But in the end of the day anything can happen
at any moment.
Our cells are little nuclear bombs that can go off at any time (cancer etc).
Every time we drive a car, anything could happen.
Our families. If our parents had died when we were little.. If they were
afflicted in some way that made them unable to give us advice.
If we have genes that lean towards addiction, if we lifted that bottle to our lips.
Every day we go about our business. If something happened to us. A truck
veered off course. Someone at the factory made ice cream with dirty hands which gave us a food poisoning that sent us to hospital, where we caught MRSA and died.
If we came to the path of a madman. A thief in the night.
If a meteorite landed on us.
If a plane we were on crashed.
If a stray dog went nuts on us.
If a song pissed us off and we were loudly talking about it in a public transit and a druggie in a psychosis was offended.
If a electric appliance caught fire in the middle of the night as we were sleeping.
If we fell down doing whatever and struck our head.
If a viper, cobra or some poisonous snake popped out of a hole while we were having a picnic and bit us.
Or a hormone filled bull moose decided to decimate us with his antlers.
Or if a mosquito bit us and gave us the west nile disease. Or tick that gave us lyme disease, which went bad.
If we went to a gun range and some mad woman decided to blow our brains out.
(happened here some 10 years back)
If there was particularly large hail and we found ourselves outside. With no
cover.
If we found ourselves from a room rapidly filling with carbon monoxide, lets say we went to sauna and the chimney was closed (happens in Finland).
If we were walking on a glacier and the ice below us suddenly gave up.
If someone blew some rock without a rubber cover and one of the rocks from the explosion decided to fly straight to our head.
If a jet engine decided to fall on our heads after breaking free from a jet plane.
If we drank from some cup we thought was fancy and it was actually covered with some poisonous material that slowly drove us crazy and made us commit a suicide.
If a police that was chasing a violent criminal decided that we were him and decided to shoot us in the head.
If the patch of coffee we were drinking had somehow been laced with arsenic.
If we were following some instruction on the internet for building X and it did not go very well and the X turned out to be a death trap.
If the food we ate was not nutritious and we slowly killed ourselves due to malnutrition.
If the person we wrote to on the internet was a serial killer and chose us as his random victim.
If the doctor that was treating us, was tired of it all and decided to give us a pill that killed us.
If our clothes / shoes etc were laced with something poisonous accidentally and gave us a deadly rash.
If the medicine we ingested was actually made wrong and it killed us.
If the fast food we ate was made by some fool with corona virus and it killed us.
Do I have to go on?
Dumb luck keeps us alive.
Dumb luck makes us possibly smart and rich.
We do not control poop.
Writing the above made me realize.
What is the point?
All these personal stories of vindication we tell for ourselves. I guess it makes us feel good when we tell a story in which we are heroes that overcame insurmountable odds. But really?
What is the part of free will in a world that can kill us all day and all night long. How do we rise above our circumstances when it can be the very mind we have that is afflicted? How many "special" billionaires there are.
I do not know a single one.
Smart people have genes that make them able to retain information and cognitive functions good enough to process that information. "Stupid" people do not. The only hope for "stupid" people is luck. For smart people, they can use their faculties.
My previous epilepsy medication actually began to deteriorate my memory. One hell of a feeling. To realize it all depends on just some chemical balance in
my neurons. Throw that a little off and I am a drooling idiot.
This one gives me a better memory, but now my emotions are muted! Oh vey!
Yes! The very faculties are affected by dumb luck of upbringing, genes and
every day life. Why be proud?
If you find yourself from Ivy league college and you do well. Good. If you find yourself from a roadside picking up trash. Good.
Were you 100 % in control getting there? If you tell yourself yes. Well. It is not reality.
Free will. Is there free will?
What does free will amount up to in a world where we are like flawed ships sailing on the sea of life.
Should we not care for others because they made bad choices or were unlucky?
What is a choice? If one person lifts a bottle to his lips and is not affected by it, ignores it and goes to a life of study was that person stronger than the one who lifts a bottle to his / her lips and goes on a life long binge?
What do we have to consider there? That the two were the same? Do we have to consider their brain structure, their affinity to addiction? Their very genes?
Or can we just say that a is good and b is bad?
Of course it is easier to do the latter.
Occams razor is a theory that when you have to make least assumptions about a question the answer is right. The more you have to speculate, the less likely the answer is right.
But what about complicated problems? Like right here. The life of a person A and person B.
Can you compare?
Trump vs homeless person?
What is the thing that made Trump president of the united states / made the homeless person homeless. Did trump excel because of his free will / did the homeless person fail in some unforgivable fashion to become homeless?
Could Trump not have had any of the things I said far above happen to him and
die? Could the homeless person not have had some random lucky event that I did
not describe above that would have led that person to find his true gift and
excel? Maybe that person could have been a world class bicyclist that wont the
Tour De France ca 1995. But that one random event did not happen which would have led to it.
Why is the world such?
What do the answers tell about us?
I think that is the big one. What do the answers tell about us. If we just casually say, A is better than B. Then, it tells something about our callousness, about not wanting to spend our time thinking about it and
that leads to us building a world thus.
If how ever we think about it. Go to the voting box having thought about it
and vote someone who also thought about it. We build a different world.
If we recognize that we are sailing on this sea of life in a raft made of
sugar that is melting rapidly and we see other people around us doing the
same. From the homeless person to the president of the united states and
we do not do rash judgments. Then.
We care. We love one another. If we care and love one another. Then we
do not count out the guy who has to resort to dumpster diving. Or the
sociopath who became the president. We look at all of us with our faults
as a doctor would. Flawed things with different amounts of luck.
We look at reality. Instead of a story that the person told himself
or a story we told to ourselves to explain the world in simplified terms.
The thing is. We have no hope of understanding the world as it is. It is just
We are all human beings. With the same value. Divided, yet we share the experience of living.
Antti
You're talking about chance, not free will.
Free will does not refer to the chance events that can affect the outcome of our life circumstances.
Free will is simply the ability to choose between two or more alternatives.
And, no... none of us has ever had any power over the choices he/she made.
We are genetically hard-wired to act in what we believe to be our own best interest. We may be mistaken as to what our best interest is, but we must do what we *think* best all the same.
Chance is also an illusion. Everything happens exactly as it is supposed to happen -- as it has always happened and will always happen.
Time is non-linear. Every moment of our lives from the cradle to the grave came into existence simultaneously. Every moment has always already happened. We are simply viewing our lives progressively, as we would scan across the images on a strip of film.
I am writing this to you because I have always written this to you -- because I am always writing this to you -- because nothing every changes and because nothing *can* ever change.
Is there any meaning to any of this? No.
Is there any meaning to anything in this life? No.
In a predetermined world devoid of free will is there even any such thing as life? No.
Should this realization upset us? No. We have no actual existence anyway.
The facts elude us. It boils down to the facts offered by physics.

The problem is that we do not know them yet.

Antti
Z***@none.i2p
2020-03-27 14:33:24 UTC
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Antti Luode wrote on Fri, 27 March 2020 13:01
[color=teal]>>
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by Antti
Post by Me
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Michael Pendragon
When my Grandmother was growing up in Philadelphia in the 1910s, she and her friends used to yell "Chinaman, Chinaman, eat dead rats!" whenever they'd pass a Chinese restaurant or laundry.
When my Grandfather was growing up in Brooklyn, he would fill a sock with flour and hit the Jewish kids in black clothing on the back. Both behaviors are wrong.
Of course they are.
My Grandmother was a child at the time and she and her friends were scared to death of the Chinese. This was during the time when everyone talked about the "Yellow Peril," and such.
My Grandfather was a bully; the Jewish kids were likely scared of him. He graduated from 8th grade 2nd in his class, yet the teacher sent him to 1st grade for a day because he was such a pest. He could still recite the "Cremation of Sam McGee" when I was a child.
My maternal grandparents were very kind and generous. They were both very forward thinkers, hardworking and god fearing. I'm grateful for being blessed with such amazing role models in my early years.
I guess it's what we choose to take from our youth that makes us who we become.
It's good to have role models.
My mother's parents were very loving and fiercely loyal to us. My father's mother was the closest thing I has to a role model, she thought for herself despite being kind and loving. My father did encouraged me to study and pursue a scientific career.
Sounds like you were lucky also.
Truthfully. Dumb luck or lack of it guides us all.
Our parents give us advice. But in the end of the day anything can happen
at any moment.
Our cells are little nuclear bombs that can go off at any time (cancer etc).
Every time we drive a car, anything could happen.
Our families. If our parents had died when we were little.. If they were
afflicted in some way that made them unable to give us advice.
If we have genes that lean towards addiction, if we lifted that bottle to our lips.
Every day we go about our business. If something happened to us. A truck
veered off course. Someone at the factory made ice cream with dirty hands which gave us a food poisoning that sent us to hospital, where we caught MRSA and died.
If we came to the path of a madman. A thief in the night.
If a meteorite landed on us.
If a plane we were on crashed.
If a stray dog went nuts on us.
If a song pissed us off and we were loudly talking about it in a public transit and a druggie in a psychosis was offended.
If a electric appliance caught fire in the middle of the night as we were sleeping.
If we fell down doing whatever and struck our head.
If a viper, cobra or some poisonous snake popped out of a hole while we were having a picnic and bit us.
Or a hormone filled bull moose decided to decimate us with his antlers.
Or if a mosquito bit us and gave us the west nile disease. Or tick that gave us lyme disease, which went bad.
If we went to a gun range and some mad woman decided to blow our brains out.
(happened here some 10 years back)
If there was particularly large hail and we found ourselves outside. With no
cover.
If we found ourselves from a room rapidly filling with carbon monoxide, lets say we went to sauna and the chimney was closed (happens in Finland).
If we were walking on a glacier and the ice below us suddenly gave up.
If someone blew some rock without a rubber cover and one of the rocks from the explosion decided to fly straight to our head.
If a jet engine decided to fall on our heads after breaking free from a jet plane.
If we drank from some cup we thought was fancy and it was actually covered with some poisonous material that slowly drove us crazy and made us commit a suicide.
If a police that was chasing a violent criminal decided that we were him and decided to shoot us in the head.
If the patch of coffee we were drinking had somehow been laced with arsenic.
If we were following some instruction on the internet for building X and it did not go very well and the X turned out to be a death trap.
If the food we ate was not nutritious and we slowly killed ourselves due to malnutrition.
If the person we wrote to on the internet was a serial killer and chose us as his random victim.
If the doctor that was treating us, was tired of it all and decided to give us a pill that killed us.
If our clothes / shoes etc were laced with something poisonous accidentally and gave us a deadly rash.
If the medicine we ingested was actually made wrong and it killed us.
If the fast food we ate was made by some fool with corona virus and it killed us.
Do I have to go on?
Dumb luck keeps us alive.
Dumb luck makes us possibly smart and rich.
We do not control poop.
Writing the above made me realize.
What is the point?
All these personal stories of vindication we tell for ourselves. I guess it makes us feel good when we tell a story in which we are heroes that overcame insurmountable odds. But really?
What is the part of free will in a world that can kill us all day and all night long. How do we rise above our circumstances when it can be the very mind we have that is afflicted? How many "special" billionaires there are.
I do not know a single one.
Smart people have genes that make them able to retain information and cognitive functions good enough to process that information. "Stupid" people do not. The only hope for "stupid" people is luck. For smart people, they can use their faculties.
My previous epilepsy medication actually began to deteriorate my memory.. One hell of a feeling. To realize it all depends on just some chemical balance in
my neurons. Throw that a little off and I am a drooling idiot.
This one gives me a better memory, but now my emotions are muted! Oh vey!
Yes! The very faculties are affected by dumb luck of upbringing, genes and
every day life. Why be proud?
If you find yourself from Ivy league college and you do well. Good. If you find yourself from a roadside picking up trash. Good.
Were you 100 % in control getting there? If you tell yourself yes. Well.. It is not reality.
Free will. Is there free will?
What does free will amount up to in a world where we are like flawed ships sailing on the sea of life.
Should we not care for others because they made bad choices or were unlucky?
What is a choice? If one person lifts a bottle to his lips and is not affected by it, ignores it and goes to a life of study was that person stronger than the one who lifts a bottle to his / her lips and goes on a life long binge?
What do we have to consider there? That the two were the same? Do we have to consider their brain structure, their affinity to addiction? Their very genes?
Or can we just say that a is good and b is bad?
Of course it is easier to do the latter.
Occams razor is a theory that when you have to make least assumptions about a question the answer is right. The more you have to speculate, the less likely the answer is right.
But what about complicated problems? Like right here. The life of a person A and person B.
Can you compare?
Trump vs homeless person?
What is the thing that made Trump president of the united states / made the homeless person homeless. Did trump excel because of his free will / did the homeless person fail in some unforgivable fashion to become homeless?
Could Trump not have had any of the things I said far above happen to him and
die? Could the homeless person not have had some random lucky event that I did
not describe above that would have led that person to find his true gift and
excel? Maybe that person could have been a world class bicyclist that wont the
Tour De France ca 1995. But that one random event did not happen which would have led to it.
Why is the world such?
What do the answers tell about us?
I think that is the big one. What do the answers tell about us. If we just casually say, A is better than B. Then, it tells something about our callousness, about not wanting to spend our time thinking about it and
that leads to us building a world thus.
If how ever we think about it. Go to the voting box having thought about it
and vote someone who also thought about it. We build a different world.
If we recognize that we are sailing on this sea of life in a raft made of
sugar that is melting rapidly and we see other people around us doing the
same. From the homeless person to the president of the united states and
we do not do rash judgments. Then.
We care. We love one another. If we care and love one another. Then we
do not count out the guy who has to resort to dumpster diving. Or the
sociopath who became the president. We look at all of us with our faults
as a doctor would. Flawed things with different amounts of luck.
We look at reality. Instead of a story that the person told himself
or a story we told to ourselves to explain the world in simplified terms.
The thing is. We have no hope of understanding the world as it is. It is just
We are all human beings. With the same value. Divided, yet we share the experience of living.
Antti
You're talking about chance, not free will.
Free will does not refer to the chance events that can affect the outcome of our life circumstances.
Free will is simply the ability to choose between two or more alternatives.
And, no... none of us has ever had any power over the choices he/she made..
We are genetically hard-wired to act in what we believe to be our own best interest. We may be mistaken as to what our best interest is, but we must do what we *think* best all the same.
Chance is also an illusion. Everything happens exactly as it is supposed to happen -- as it has always happened and will always happen.
Time is non-linear. Every moment of our lives from the cradle to the grave came into existence simultaneously. Every moment has always already happened. We are simply viewing our lives progressively, as we would scan across the images on a strip of film.
I am writing this to you because I have always written this to you -- because I am always writing this to you -- because nothing every changes and because nothing *can* ever change.
Is there any meaning to any of this? No.
Is there any meaning to anything in this life? No.
In a predetermined world devoid of free will is there even any such thing as life? No.
Should this realization upset us? No. We have no actual existence anyway.
The facts elude us. It boils down to the facts offered by physics.
The problem is that we do not know them yet.
Antti
Well put, Antti.....
George J. Dance
2020-04-19 17:38:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Antti
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by Antti
Post by Me
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Me
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by NancyGene
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
1. The coronavirus outbreak has been traced to a wet market in Wuhan, China.
2. The virus did not escape from a lab experiment.
3. The coronavirus resembles viruses that have been found in bats and pangolins.
4. Humans either contracted the virus directly from an animal or through an intermediate host which had contracted it from (probably) a bat.
5. Visit an Asian market in your community and let us know what you see.
6. Look at pictures of wet markets in China and read the descriptions.
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html
When my Grandmother was growing up in Philadelphia in the 1910s, she and her friends used to yell "Chinaman, Chinaman, eat dead rats!" whenever they'd pass a Chinese restaurant or laundry.
When my Grandfather was growing up in Brooklyn, he would fill a sock with flour and hit the Jewish kids in black clothing on the back. Both behaviors are wrong.
Of course they are.
My Grandmother was a child at the time and she and her friends were scared to death of the Chinese. This was during the time when everyone talked about the "Yellow Peril," and such.
My Grandfather was a bully; the Jewish kids were likely scared of him. He graduated from 8th grade 2nd in his class, yet the teacher sent him to 1st grade for a day because he was such a pest. He could still recite the "Cremation of Sam McGee" when I was a child.
My maternal grandparents were very kind and generous. They were both very forward thinkers, hardworking and god fearing. I’m grateful for being blessed with such amazing role models in my early years.
I guess it’s what we choose to take from our youth that makes us who we become.
It's good to have role models.
My mother's parents were very loving and fiercely loyal to us. My father's mother was the closest thing I has to a role model, she thought for herself despite being kind and loving. My father did encouraged me to study and pursue a scientific career.
Sounds like you were lucky also.
Truthfully. Dumb luck or lack of it guides us all.
Our parents give us advice. But in the end of the day anything can happen
at any moment.
Our cells are little nuclear bombs that can go off at any time (cancer etc).
Every time we drive a car, anything could happen.
Our families. If our parents had died when we were little.. If they were
afflicted in some way that made them unable to give us advice.
If we have genes that lean towards addiction, if we lifted that bottle to our lips.
Every day we go about our business. If something happened to us. A truck
veered off course. Someone at the factory made ice cream with dirty hands which gave us a food poisoning that sent us to hospital, where we caught MRSA and died.
If we came to the path of a madman. A thief in the night.
If a meteorite landed on us.
If a plane we were on crashed.
If a stray dog went nuts on us.
If a song pissed us off and we were loudly talking about it in a public transit and a druggie in a psychosis was offended.
If a electric appliance caught fire in the middle of the night as we were sleeping.
If we fell down doing whatever and struck our head.
If a viper, cobra or some poisonous snake popped out of a hole while we were having a picnic and bit us.
Or a hormone filled bull moose decided to decimate us with his antlers.
Or if a mosquito bit us and gave us the west nile disease. Or tick that gave us lyme disease, which went bad.
If we went to a gun range and some mad woman decided to blow our brains out.
(happened here some 10 years back)
If there was particularly large hail and we found ourselves outside. With no
cover.
If we found ourselves from a room rapidly filling with carbon monoxide, lets say we went to sauna and the chimney was closed (happens in Finland).
If we were walking on a glacier and the ice below us suddenly gave up.
If someone blew some rock without a rubber cover and one of the rocks from the explosion decided to fly straight to our head.
If a jet engine decided to fall on our heads after breaking free from a jet plane.
If we drank from some cup we thought was fancy and it was actually covered with some poisonous material that slowly drove us crazy and made us commit a suicide.
If a police that was chasing a violent criminal decided that we were him and decided to shoot us in the head.
If the patch of coffee we were drinking had somehow been laced with arsenic.
If we were following some instruction on the internet for building X and it did not go very well and the X turned out to be a death trap.
If the food we ate was not nutritious and we slowly killed ourselves due to malnutrition.
If the person we wrote to on the internet was a serial killer and chose us as his random victim.
If the doctor that was treating us, was tired of it all and decided to give us a pill that killed us.
If our clothes / shoes etc were laced with something poisonous accidentally and gave us a deadly rash.
If the medicine we ingested was actually made wrong and it killed us.
If the fast food we ate was made by some fool with corona virus and it killed us.
Do I have to go on?
Dumb luck keeps us alive.
Dumb luck makes us possibly smart and rich.
We do not control poop.
Writing the above made me realize.
What is the point?
All these personal stories of vindication we tell for ourselves. I guess it makes us feel good when we tell a story in which we are heroes that overcame insurmountable odds. But really?
What is the part of free will in a world that can kill us all day and all night long. How do we rise above our circumstances when it can be the very mind we have that is afflicted? How many "special" billionaires there are.
I do not know a single one.
Smart people have genes that make them able to retain information and cognitive functions good enough to process that information. "Stupid" people do not. The only hope for "stupid" people is luck. For smart people, they can use their faculties.
My previous epilepsy medication actually began to deteriorate my memory. One hell of a feeling. To realize it all depends on just some chemical balance in
my neurons. Throw that a little off and I am a drooling idiot.
This one gives me a better memory, but now my emotions are muted! Oh vey!
Yes! The very faculties are affected by dumb luck of upbringing, genes and
every day life. Why be proud?
If you find yourself from Ivy league college and you do well. Good. If you find yourself from a roadside picking up trash. Good.
Were you 100 % in control getting there? If you tell yourself yes. Well. It is not reality.
Free will. Is there free will?
What does free will amount up to in a world where we are like flawed ships sailing on the sea of life.
Should we not care for others because they made bad choices or were unlucky?
What is a choice? If one person lifts a bottle to his lips and is not affected by it, ignores it and goes to a life of study was that person stronger than the one who lifts a bottle to his / her lips and goes on a life long binge?
What do we have to consider there? That the two were the same? Do we have to consider their brain structure, their affinity to addiction? Their very genes?
Or can we just say that a is good and b is bad?
Of course it is easier to do the latter.
Occams razor is a theory that when you have to make least assumptions about a question the answer is right. The more you have to speculate, the less likely the answer is right.
But what about complicated problems? Like right here. The life of a person A and person B.
Can you compare?
Trump vs homeless person?
What is the thing that made Trump president of the united states / made the homeless person homeless. Did trump excel because of his free will / did the homeless person fail in some unforgivable fashion to become homeless?
Could Trump not have had any of the things I said far above happen to him and
die? Could the homeless person not have had some random lucky event that I did
not describe above that would have led that person to find his true gift and
excel? Maybe that person could have been a world class bicyclist that wont the
Tour De France ca 1995. But that one random event did not happen which would have led to it.
Why is the world such?
What do the answers tell about us?
I think that is the big one. What do the answers tell about us. If we just casually say, A is better than B. Then, it tells something about our callousness, about not wanting to spend our time thinking about it and
that leads to us building a world thus.
If how ever we think about it. Go to the voting box having thought about it
and vote someone who also thought about it. We build a different world.
If we recognize that we are sailing on this sea of life in a raft made of
sugar that is melting rapidly and we see other people around us doing the
same. From the homeless person to the president of the united states and
we do not do rash judgments. Then.
We care. We love one another. If we care and love one another. Then we
do not count out the guy who has to resort to dumpster diving. Or the
sociopath who became the president. We look at all of us with our faults
as a doctor would. Flawed things with different amounts of luck.
We look at reality. Instead of a story that the person told himself
or a story we told to ourselves to explain the world in simplified terms.
The thing is. We have no hope of understanding the world as it is. It is just
We are all human beings. With the same value. Divided, yet we share the experience of living.
Antti
You're talking about chance, not free will.
Free will does not refer to the chance events that can affect the outcome of our life circumstances.
Free will is simply the ability to choose between two or more alternatives.
And, no... none of us has ever had any power over the choices he/she made.
We are genetically hard-wired to act in what we believe to be our own best interest. We may be mistaken as to what our best interest is, but we must do what we *think* best all the same.
Chance is also an illusion. Everything happens exactly as it is supposed to happen -- as it has always happened and will always happen.
Time is non-linear. Every moment of our lives from the cradle to the grave came into existence simultaneously. Every moment has always already happened. We are simply viewing our lives progressively, as we would scan across the images on a strip of film.
I am writing this to you because I have always written this to you -- because I am always writing this to you -- because nothing every changes and because nothing *can* ever change.
Is there any meaning to any of this? No.
Is there any meaning to anything in this life? No.
In a predetermined world devoid of free will is there even any such thing as life? No.
Should this realization upset us? No. We have no actual existence anyway.
The facts elude us. It boils down to the facts offered by physics.
The problem is that we do not know them yet.
Antti
Well, the facts of physics themselves rest on an assumption - determinism - that rules out both free will and chance equally. That assumption - that all physical events are caused, in an invariable way, from prior events - underlies all science, and we wouldn't have it otherwise. But I think that, wrt to the physical sciences, we all do believe it.

The problem with the assumption is that adopting it consistently leads to the conclusion that everything that happens in the world was predetermined. IOW, the answer to your question: "Why is one guy homeless and another is president?" is "Because of the Big Bang."
Z***@novabbs.i2p
2020-04-20 21:04:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
George J. Dance wrote on Sun, 19 April 2020 17:38
Post by George J. Dance
Post by Antti
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by Antti
Post by Me
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by NancyGene
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we'll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
1. The coronavirus outbreak has been traced to a wet market in Wuhan, China.
2. The virus did not escape from a lab experiment.
3. The coronavirus resembles viruses that have been found in bats and pangolins.
4. Humans either contracted the virus directly from an animal or through an intermediate host which had contracted it from (probably) a bat.
5. Visit an Asian market in your community and let us know what you see.
6. Look at pictures of wet markets in China and read the descriptions.
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html
When my Grandmother was growing up in Philadelphia in the 1910s, she and her friends used to yell "Chinaman, Chinaman, eat dead rats!" whenever they'd pass a Chinese restaurant or laundry.
When my Grandfather was growing up in Brooklyn, he would fill a sock with flour and hit the Jewish kids in black clothing on the back. Both behaviors are wrong.
Of course they are.
My Grandmother was a child at the time and she and her friends were scared to death of the Chinese. This was during the time when everyone talked about the "Yellow Peril," and such.
My Grandfather was a bully; the Jewish kids were likely scared of him. He graduated from 8th grade 2nd in his class, yet the teacher sent him to 1st grade for a day because he was such a pest. He could still recite the "Cremation of Sam McGee" when I was a child.
My maternal grandparents were very kind and generous. They were both very forward thinkers, hardworking and god fearing. I'm grateful for being blessed with such amazing role models in my early years.
I guess it's what we choose to take from our youth that makes us who we become.
It's good to have role models.
My mother's parents were very loving and fiercely loyal to us. My father's mother was the closest thing I has to a role model, she thought for herself despite being kind and loving. My father did encouraged me to study and pursue a scientific career.
Sounds like you were lucky also.
Truthfully. Dumb luck or lack of it guides us all.
Our parents give us advice. But in the end of the day anything can happen
at any moment.
Our cells are little nuclear bombs that can go off at any time (cancer etc).
Every time we drive a car, anything could happen.
Our families. If our parents had died when we were little.. If they were
afflicted in some way that made them unable to give us advice.
If we have genes that lean towards addiction, if we lifted that bottle to our lips.
Every day we go about our business. If something happened to us. A truck
veered off course. Someone at the factory made ice cream with dirty hands which gave us a food poisoning that sent us to hospital, where we caught MRSA and died.
If we came to the path of a madman. A thief in the night.
If a meteorite landed on us.
If a plane we were on crashed.
If a stray dog went nuts on us.
If a song pissed us off and we were loudly talking about it in a public transit and a druggie in a psychosis was offended.
If a electric appliance caught fire in the middle of the night as we were sleeping.
If we fell down doing whatever and struck our head.
If a viper, cobra or some poisonous snake popped out of a hole while we were having a picnic and bit us.
Or a hormone filled bull moose decided to decimate us with his antlers.
Or if a mosquito bit us and gave us the west nile disease. Or tick that gave us lyme disease, which went bad.
If we went to a gun range and some mad woman decided to blow our brains out.
(happened here some 10 years back)
If there was particularly large hail and we found ourselves outside. With no
cover.
If we found ourselves from a room rapidly filling with carbon monoxide, lets say we went to sauna and the chimney was closed (happens in Finland).
If we were walking on a glacier and the ice below us suddenly gave up..
If someone blew some rock without a rubber cover and one of the rocks from the explosion decided to fly straight to our head.
If a jet engine decided to fall on our heads after breaking free from a jet plane.
If we drank from some cup we thought was fancy and it was actually covered with some poisonous material that slowly drove us crazy and made us commit a suicide.
If a police that was chasing a violent criminal decided that we were him and decided to shoot us in the head.
If the patch of coffee we were drinking had somehow been laced with arsenic.
If we were following some instruction on the internet for building X and it did not go very well and the X turned out to be a death trap.
If the food we ate was not nutritious and we slowly killed ourselves due to malnutrition.
If the person we wrote to on the internet was a serial killer and chose us as his random victim.
If the doctor that was treating us, was tired of it all and decided to give us a pill that killed us.
If our clothes / shoes etc were laced with something poisonous accidentally and gave us a deadly rash.
If the medicine we ingested was actually made wrong and it killed us.
If the fast food we ate was made by some fool with corona virus and it killed us.
Do I have to go on?
Dumb luck keeps us alive.
Dumb luck makes us possibly smart and rich.
We do not control poop.
Writing the above made me realize.
What is the point?
All these personal stories of vindication we tell for ourselves. I guess it makes us feel good when we tell a story in which we are heroes that overcame insurmountable odds. But really?
What is the part of free will in a world that can kill us all day and all night long. How do we rise above our circumstances when it can be the very mind we have that is afflicted? How many "special" billionaires there are.
I do not know a single one.
Smart people have genes that make them able to retain information and cognitive functions good enough to process that information. "Stupid" people do not. The only hope for "stupid" people is luck. For smart people, they can use their faculties.
My previous epilepsy medication actually began to deteriorate my memory. One hell of a feeling. To realize it all depends on just some chemical balance in
my neurons. Throw that a little off and I am a drooling idiot.
This one gives me a better memory, but now my emotions are muted! Oh vey!
Yes! The very faculties are affected by dumb luck of upbringing, genes and
every day life. Why be proud?
If you find yourself from Ivy league college and you do well. Good. If you find yourself from a roadside picking up trash. Good.
Were you 100 % in control getting there? If you tell yourself yes. Well. It is not reality.
Free will. Is there free will?
What does free will amount up to in a world where we are like flawed ships sailing on the sea of life.
Should we not care for others because they made bad choices or were unlucky?
What is a choice? If one person lifts a bottle to his lips and is not affected by it, ignores it and goes to a life of study was that person stronger than the one who lifts a bottle to his / her lips and goes on a life long binge?
What do we have to consider there? That the two were the same? Do we have to consider their brain structure, their affinity to addiction? Their very genes?
Or can we just say that a is good and b is bad?
Of course it is easier to do the latter.
Occams razor is a theory that when you have to make least assumptions about a question the answer is right. The more you have to speculate, the less likely the answer is right.
But what about complicated problems? Like right here. The life of a person A and person B.
Can you compare?
Trump vs homeless person?
What is the thing that made Trump president of the united states / made the homeless person homeless. Did trump excel because of his free will / did the homeless person fail in some unforgivable fashion to become homeless?
Could Trump not have had any of the things I said far above happen to him and
die? Could the homeless person not have had some random lucky event that I did
not describe above that would have led that person to find his true gift and
excel? Maybe that person could have been a world class bicyclist that wont the
Tour De France ca 1995. But that one random event did not happen which would have led to it.
Why is the world such?
What do the answers tell about us?
I think that is the big one. What do the answers tell about us. If we just casually say, A is better than B. Then, it tells something about our callousness, about not wanting to spend our time thinking about it and
that leads to us building a world thus.
If how ever we think about it. Go to the voting box having thought about it
and vote someone who also thought about it. We build a different world.
If we recognize that we are sailing on this sea of life in a raft made of
sugar that is melting rapidly and we see other people around us doing the
same. From the homeless person to the president of the united states and
we do not do rash judgments. Then.
We care. We love one another. If we care and love one another. Then we
do not count out the guy who has to resort to dumpster diving. Or the
sociopath who became the president. We look at all of us with our faults
as a doctor would. Flawed things with different amounts of luck.
We look at reality. Instead of a story that the person told himself
or a story we told to ourselves to explain the world in simplified terms.
The thing is. We have no hope of understanding the world as it is. It is just
We are all human beings. With the same value. Divided, yet we share the experience of living.
Antti
You're talking about chance, not free will.
Free will does not refer to the chance events that can affect the outcome of our life circumstances.
Free will is simply the ability to choose between two or more alternatives.
And, no... none of us has ever had any power over the choices he/she made.
We are genetically hard-wired to act in what we believe to be our own best interest. We may be mistaken as to what our best interest is, but we must do what we *think* best all the same.
Chance is also an illusion. Everything happens exactly as it is supposed to happen -- as it has always happened and will always happen.
Time is non-linear. Every moment of our lives from the cradle to the grave came into existence simultaneously. Every moment has always already happened. We are simply viewing our lives progressively, as we would scan across the images on a strip of film.
I am writing this to you because I have always written this to you -- because I am always writing this to you -- because nothing every changes and because nothing *can* ever change.
Is there any meaning to any of this? No.
Is there any meaning to anything in this life? No.
In a predetermined world devoid of free will is there even any such thing as life? No.
Should this realization upset us? No. We have no actual existence anyway.
The facts elude us. It boils down to the facts offered by physics.
The problem is that we do not know them yet.
Antti
Well, the facts of physics themselves rest on an assumption - determinism - that rules out both free will and chance equally. That assumption - that all physical events are caused, in an invariable way, from prior events - underlies all science, and we wouldn't have it otherwise. But I think that, wrt to the physical sciences, we all do believe it.
The problem with the assumption is that adopting it consistently leads to the conclusion that everything that happens in the world was predetermined. IOW, the answer to your question: "Why is one guy homeless and another is president?" is "Because of the Big Bang."
Wellness put, G.D.
Rocky
2020-04-22 23:58:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Antti
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by Antti
Post by Me
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Me
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by NancyGene
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
1. The coronavirus outbreak has been traced to a wet market in Wuhan, China.
2. The virus did not escape from a lab experiment.
3. The coronavirus resembles viruses that have been found in bats and pangolins.
4. Humans either contracted the virus directly from an animal or through an intermediate host which had contracted it from (probably) a bat.
5. Visit an Asian market in your community and let us know what you see.
6. Look at pictures of wet markets in China and read the descriptions.
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html
When my Grandmother was growing up in Philadelphia in the 1910s, she and her friends used to yell "Chinaman, Chinaman, eat dead rats!" whenever they'd pass a Chinese restaurant or laundry.
When my Grandfather was growing up in Brooklyn, he would fill a sock with flour and hit the Jewish kids in black clothing on the back. Both behaviors are wrong.
Of course they are.
My Grandmother was a child at the time and she and her friends were scared to death of the Chinese. This was during the time when everyone talked about the "Yellow Peril," and such.
My Grandfather was a bully; the Jewish kids were likely scared of him. He graduated from 8th grade 2nd in his class, yet the teacher sent him to 1st grade for a day because he was such a pest. He could still recite the "Cremation of Sam McGee" when I was a child.
My maternal grandparents were very kind and generous. They were both very forward thinkers, hardworking and god fearing. I’m grateful for being blessed with such amazing role models in my early years.
I guess it’s what we choose to take from our youth that makes us who we become.
It's good to have role models.
My mother's parents were very loving and fiercely loyal to us. My father's mother was the closest thing I has to a role model, she thought for herself despite being kind and loving. My father did encouraged me to study and pursue a scientific career.
Sounds like you were lucky also.
Truthfully. Dumb luck or lack of it guides us all.
Our parents give us advice. But in the end of the day anything can happen
at any moment.
Our cells are little nuclear bombs that can go off at any time (cancer etc).
Every time we drive a car, anything could happen.
Our families. If our parents had died when we were little.. If they were
afflicted in some way that made them unable to give us advice.
If we have genes that lean towards addiction, if we lifted that bottle to our lips.
Every day we go about our business. If something happened to us. A truck
veered off course. Someone at the factory made ice cream with dirty hands which gave us a food poisoning that sent us to hospital, where we caught MRSA and died.
If we came to the path of a madman. A thief in the night.
If a meteorite landed on us.
If a plane we were on crashed.
If a stray dog went nuts on us.
If a song pissed us off and we were loudly talking about it in a public transit and a druggie in a psychosis was offended.
If a electric appliance caught fire in the middle of the night as we were sleeping.
If we fell down doing whatever and struck our head.
If a viper, cobra or some poisonous snake popped out of a hole while we were having a picnic and bit us.
Or a hormone filled bull moose decided to decimate us with his antlers.
Or if a mosquito bit us and gave us the west nile disease. Or tick that gave us lyme disease, which went bad.
If we went to a gun range and some mad woman decided to blow our brains out.
(happened here some 10 years back)
If there was particularly large hail and we found ourselves outside. With no
cover.
If we found ourselves from a room rapidly filling with carbon monoxide, lets say we went to sauna and the chimney was closed (happens in Finland).
If we were walking on a glacier and the ice below us suddenly gave up.
If someone blew some rock without a rubber cover and one of the rocks from the explosion decided to fly straight to our head.
If a jet engine decided to fall on our heads after breaking free from a jet plane.
If we drank from some cup we thought was fancy and it was actually covered with some poisonous material that slowly drove us crazy and made us commit a suicide.
If a police that was chasing a violent criminal decided that we were him and decided to shoot us in the head.
If the patch of coffee we were drinking had somehow been laced with arsenic.
If we were following some instruction on the internet for building X and it did not go very well and the X turned out to be a death trap.
If the food we ate was not nutritious and we slowly killed ourselves due to malnutrition.
If the person we wrote to on the internet was a serial killer and chose us as his random victim.
If the doctor that was treating us, was tired of it all and decided to give us a pill that killed us.
If our clothes / shoes etc were laced with something poisonous accidentally and gave us a deadly rash.
If the medicine we ingested was actually made wrong and it killed us.
If the fast food we ate was made by some fool with corona virus and it killed us.
Do I have to go on?
Dumb luck keeps us alive.
Dumb luck makes us possibly smart and rich.
We do not control poop.
Writing the above made me realize.
What is the point?
All these personal stories of vindication we tell for ourselves. I guess it makes us feel good when we tell a story in which we are heroes that overcame insurmountable odds. But really?
What is the part of free will in a world that can kill us all day and all night long. How do we rise above our circumstances when it can be the very mind we have that is afflicted? How many "special" billionaires there are.
I do not know a single one.
Smart people have genes that make them able to retain information and cognitive functions good enough to process that information. "Stupid" people do not. The only hope for "stupid" people is luck. For smart people, they can use their faculties.
My previous epilepsy medication actually began to deteriorate my memory. One hell of a feeling. To realize it all depends on just some chemical balance in
my neurons. Throw that a little off and I am a drooling idiot.
This one gives me a better memory, but now my emotions are muted! Oh vey!
Yes! The very faculties are affected by dumb luck of upbringing, genes and
every day life. Why be proud?
If you find yourself from Ivy league college and you do well. Good. If you find yourself from a roadside picking up trash. Good.
Were you 100 % in control getting there? If you tell yourself yes. Well. It is not reality.
Free will. Is there free will?
What does free will amount up to in a world where we are like flawed ships sailing on the sea of life.
Should we not care for others because they made bad choices or were unlucky?
What is a choice? If one person lifts a bottle to his lips and is not affected by it, ignores it and goes to a life of study was that person stronger than the one who lifts a bottle to his / her lips and goes on a life long binge?
What do we have to consider there? That the two were the same? Do we have to consider their brain structure, their affinity to addiction? Their very genes?
Or can we just say that a is good and b is bad?
Of course it is easier to do the latter.
Occams razor is a theory that when you have to make least assumptions about a question the answer is right. The more you have to speculate, the less likely the answer is right.
But what about complicated problems? Like right here. The life of a person A and person B.
Can you compare?
Trump vs homeless person?
What is the thing that made Trump president of the united states / made the homeless person homeless. Did trump excel because of his free will / did the homeless person fail in some unforgivable fashion to become homeless?
Could Trump not have had any of the things I said far above happen to him and
die? Could the homeless person not have had some random lucky event that I did
not describe above that would have led that person to find his true gift and
excel? Maybe that person could have been a world class bicyclist that wont the
Tour De France ca 1995. But that one random event did not happen which would have led to it.
Why is the world such?
What do the answers tell about us?
I think that is the big one. What do the answers tell about us. If we just casually say, A is better than B. Then, it tells something about our callousness, about not wanting to spend our time thinking about it and
that leads to us building a world thus.
If how ever we think about it. Go to the voting box having thought about it
and vote someone who also thought about it. We build a different world.
If we recognize that we are sailing on this sea of life in a raft made of
sugar that is melting rapidly and we see other people around us doing the
same. From the homeless person to the president of the united states and
we do not do rash judgments. Then.
We care. We love one another. If we care and love one another. Then we
do not count out the guy who has to resort to dumpster diving. Or the
sociopath who became the president. We look at all of us with our faults
as a doctor would. Flawed things with different amounts of luck.
We look at reality. Instead of a story that the person told himself
or a story we told to ourselves to explain the world in simplified terms.
The thing is. We have no hope of understanding the world as it is. It is just
We are all human beings. With the same value. Divided, yet we share the experience of living.
Antti
You're talking about chance, not free will.
Free will does not refer to the chance events that can affect the outcome of our life circumstances.
Free will is simply the ability to choose between two or more alternatives.
And, no... none of us has ever had any power over the choices he/she made.
We are genetically hard-wired to act in what we believe to be our own best interest. We may be mistaken as to what our best interest is, but we must do what we *think* best all the same.
Chance is also an illusion. Everything happens exactly as it is supposed to happen -- as it has always happened and will always happen.
Time is non-linear. Every moment of our lives from the cradle to the grave came into existence simultaneously. Every moment has always already happened. We are simply viewing our lives progressively, as we would scan across the images on a strip of film.
I am writing this to you because I have always written this to you -- because I am always writing this to you -- because nothing every changes and because nothing *can* ever change.
Is there any meaning to any of this? No.
Is there any meaning to anything in this life? No.
In a predetermined world devoid of free will is there even any such thing as life? No.
Should this realization upset us? No. We have no actual existence anyway.
The facts elude us. It boils down to the facts offered by physics.
The problem is that we do not know them yet.
Antti
Good point....
k***@gmail.com
2020-03-26 11:45:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Me
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Me
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by NancyGene
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
1. The coronavirus outbreak has been traced to a wet market in Wuhan, China.
2. The virus did not escape from a lab experiment.
3. The coronavirus resembles viruses that have been found in bats and pangolins.
4. Humans either contracted the virus directly from an animal or through an intermediate host which had contracted it from (probably) a bat.
5. Visit an Asian market in your community and let us know what you see.
6. Look at pictures of wet markets in China and read the descriptions.
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html
When my Grandmother was growing up in Philadelphia in the 1910s, she and her friends used to yell "Chinaman, Chinaman, eat dead rats!" whenever they'd pass a Chinese restaurant or laundry.
When my Grandfather was growing up in Brooklyn, he would fill a sock with flour and hit the Jewish kids in black clothing on the back. Both behaviors are wrong.
Of course they are.
My Grandmother was a child at the time and she and her friends were scared to death of the Chinese. This was during the time when everyone talked about the "Yellow Peril," and such.
My Grandfather was a bully; the Jewish kids were likely scared of him. He graduated from 8th grade 2nd in his class, yet the teacher sent him to 1st grade for a day because he was such a pest. He could still recite the "Cremation of Sam McGee" when I was a child.
My maternal grandparents were very kind and generous. They were both very forward thinkers, hardworking and god fearing. I’m grateful for being blessed with such amazing role models in my early years.
I guess it’s what we choose to take from our youth that makes us who we become.
It's good to have role models.
My mother's parents were very loving and fiercely loyal to us. My father's mother was the closest thing I has to a role model, she thought for herself despite being kind and loving. My father did encouraged me to study and pursue a scientific career.
Sounds like you were lucky also.
Sort of:

https://web.cs.dal.ca/~johnston/poetry/theverse.html
D***@novabbs.i2p
2020-03-26 17:09:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
ktellefsen2 wrote on Thu, 26 March 2020 11:45
[color=teal]>>
Post by Me
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by k***@gmail.com
My Grandfather was a bully; the Jewish kids were likely scared of him. He graduated from 8th grade 2nd in his class, yet the teacher sent him to 1st grade for a day because he was such a pest. He could still recite the "Cremation of Sam McGee" when I was a child.
My maternal grandparents were very kind and generous. They were both very forward thinkers, hardworking and god fearing. I'm grateful for being blessed with such amazing role models in my early years.
I guess it's what we choose to take from our youth that makes us who we become.
It's good to have role models.
My mother's parents were very loving and fiercely loyal to us. My father's mother was the closest thing I has to a role model, she thought for herself despite being kind and loving. My father did encouraged me to study and pursue a scientific career.
Sounds like you were lucky also.
https://web.cs.dal.ca/~johnston/poetry/theverse.html
Phillip Larkin... I always kind of liked this one by him:

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/48416/dockery-and-son

:)
k***@gmail.com
2020-03-26 20:58:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by D***@novabbs.i2p
ktellefsen2 wrote on Thu, 26 March 2020 11:45
[color=teal]>>
Post by Me
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by k***@gmail.com
My Grandfather was a bully; the Jewish kids were likely scared of him. He graduated from 8th grade 2nd in his class, yet the teacher sent him to 1st grade for a day because he was such a pest. He could still recite the "Cremation of Sam McGee" when I was a child.
My maternal grandparents were very kind and generous. They were both very forward thinkers, hardworking and god fearing. I'm grateful for being blessed with such amazing role models in my early years.
I guess it's what we choose to take from our youth that makes us who we become.
It's good to have role models.
My mother's parents were very loving and fiercely loyal to us. My father's mother was the closest thing I has to a role model, she thought for herself despite being kind and loving. My father did encouraged me to study and pursue a scientific career.
Sounds like you were lucky also.
https://web.cs.dal.ca/~johnston/poetry/theverse.html
https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/48416/dockery-and-son
:)
He did it better than I could.
Rocky Balbubba
2020-03-26 21:14:48 UTC
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Post by D***@novabbs.i2p
ktellefsen2 wrote on Thu, 26 March 2020 11:45
[color=teal]>>
Post by Me
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by k***@gmail.com
My Grandfather was a bully; the Jewish kids were likely scared of him. He graduated from 8th grade 2nd in his class, yet the teacher sent him to 1st grade for a day because he was such a pest. He could still recite the "Cremation of Sam McGee" when I was a child.
My maternal grandparents were very kind and generous. They were both very forward thinkers, hardworking and god fearing. I'm grateful for being blessed with such amazing role models in my early years.
I guess it's what we choose to take from our youth that makes us who we become.
It's good to have role models.
My mother's parents were very loving and fiercely loyal to us. My father's mother was the closest thing I has to a role model, she thought for herself despite being kind and loving. My father did encouraged me to study and pursue a scientific career.
Sounds like you were lucky also.
https://web.cs.dal.ca/~johnston/poetry/theverse.html
https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/48416/dockery-and-son
:)
High quality poetry...
General Zod
2020-03-25 21:44:59 UTC
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Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Michael Pendragon
When my Grandmother was growing up in Philadelphia in the 1910s, she and her friends used to yell "Chinaman, Chinaman, eat dead rats!" whenever they'd pass a Chinese restaurant or laundry.
When my Grandfather was growing up in Brooklyn, he would fill a sock with flour and hit the Jewish kids in black clothing on the back. Both behaviors are wrong.
Of course they are.
My Grandmother was a child at the time and she and her friends were scared to death of the Chinese. This was during the time when everyone talked about the "Yellow Peril," and such.
My Grandfather was a bully; the Jewish kids were likely scared of him. He graduated from 8th grade 2nd in his class, yet the teacher sent him to 1st grade for a day because he was such a pest. He could still recite the "Cremation of Sam McGee" when I was a child.
Love Robert W. Service poetry...
George J. Dance
2020-04-21 13:33:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by NancyGene
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
1. The coronavirus outbreak has been traced to a wet market in Wuhan, China.
Proof? That story's been debunked.
Post by NancyGene
2. The virus did not escape from a lab experiment.
Proof?
Post by NancyGene
3. The coronavirus resembles viruses that have been found in bats and pangolins.
The DNA match closely enough that it's believed the coronavirus came from bats. With the pangolins, that isn't the case. Cats, dogs, rhinos, and whales haven't even been suggested.
Post by NancyGene
4. Humans either contracted the virus directly from an animal or through an intermediate host which had contracted it from (probably) a bat.
The genetic evidence indicates the former.
Post by NancyGene
5. Visit an Asian market in your community and let us know what you see.
Lots of Asians; lots of animals. No pangolins, of course.
Post by NancyGene
6. Look at pictures of wet markets in China and read the descriptions.
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html
Strawman. There's no evidence the WIV was making viruses; and plenty that they were investigating coronaviruses found naturally in bats.
k***@gmail.com
2020-04-21 13:42:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
1. The coronavirus outbreak has been traced to a wet market in Wuhan, China.
Proof? That story's been debunked.
I was not aware of this; do you have a link to prove this? In my opinion this is the most logical reason.
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
2. The virus did not escape from a lab experiment.
Proof?
Not proof, but this has the earmarks of a conspiracy theory.
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
3. The coronavirus resembles viruses that have been found in bats and pangolins.
The DNA match closely enough that it's believed the coronavirus came from bats. With the pangolins, that isn't the case. Cats, dogs, rhinos, and whales haven't even been suggested.
Post by NancyGene
4. Humans either contracted the virus directly from an animal or through an intermediate host which had contracted it from (probably) a bat.
The genetic evidence indicates the former.
Post by NancyGene
5. Visit an Asian market in your community and let us know what you see.
Lots of Asians; lots of animals. No pangolins, of course.
Post by NancyGene
6. Look at pictures of wet markets in China and read the descriptions.
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html
Strawman. There's no evidence the WIV was making viruses; and plenty that they were investigating coronaviruses found naturally in bats.
George J. Dance
2020-04-21 14:45:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
1. The coronavirus outbreak has been traced to a wet market in Wuhan, China.
Proof? That story's been debunked.
I was not aware of this; do you have a link to prove this? In my opinion this is the most logical reason.
I've been studying up on it the last couple of weeks, and found a few stories I've put on my blog. But I don't expect you to read everything. The two pieces of evidence I consider debunking are:

1) The Lancet review, which found that 1/3 of the first 40 cases (including patient 1) could not be connected to the market.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/01/wuhan-seafood-market-may-not-be-source-novel-virus-spreading-globally

2) The Researchgate paper posted by Botao Xiao (since taken down), 'The possible origins of 2019-nCoV coronavirus." Xiao's team investigated the hypothesis and reported: "According to municipal reports and the testimonies of 31 residents and 28 visitors, the bat was never a food source in the city, and no bat was traded in the market." (Which is where I suspect the "pangolin" story came from; but pangolins are an Endangered Species in China, not something sold in licensed markets.)

Xiao thought a more likely suspect was the Wuhan Center for Disease Control and Prevention, less than 1,000 feet from the market, which was collecting and experimenting on bats at the time; but he now says that, as it was no more than a theory, he withdrew the paper.

https://web.archive.org/web/20200214144447/https:/www.researchgate.net/publication/339070128_The_possible_origins_of_2019-nCoV_coronavirus
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
2. The virus did not escape from a lab experiment.
Proof?
Not proof, but this has the earmarks of a conspiracy theory.
The conspiracy theorists have certainly latched onto it, but of course they're not the only ones who've reacted to it to push a political agenda. (Notice the two stories I've run do *not* mention either Trump or Pompeo.)

http://gdspoliticalanimal.blogspot.com/2020/04/coronavirus-trail-leads-to-wuhan-labs-i.html

http://gdspoliticalanimal.blogspot.com/2020/04/coronavirus-trail-leads-to-wuhan-labs-ii.html
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
3. The coronavirus resembles viruses that have been found in bats and pangolins.
The DNA match closely enough that it's believed the coronavirus came from bats. With the pangolins, that isn't the case. Cats, dogs, rhinos, and whales haven't even been suggested.
Post by NancyGene
4. Humans either contracted the virus directly from an animal or through an intermediate host which had contracted it from (probably) a bat.
The genetic evidence indicates the former.
Post by NancyGene
5. Visit an Asian market in your community and let us know what you see.
Lots of Asians; lots of animals. No pangolins, of course.
Post by NancyGene
6. Look at pictures of wet markets in China and read the descriptions.
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html
Strawman. There's no evidence the WIV was making viruses, and plenty that they were investigating coronaviruses found naturally in bats.
k***@gmail.com
2020-04-21 14:58:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by George J. Dance
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
1. The coronavirus outbreak has been traced to a wet market in Wuhan, China.
Proof? That story's been debunked.
I was not aware of this; do you have a link to prove this? In my opinion this is the most logical reason.
1) The Lancet review, which found that 1/3 of the first 40 cases (including patient 1) could not be connected to the market.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/01/wuhan-seafood-market-may-not-be-source-novel-virus-spreading-globally
2) The Researchgate paper posted by Botao Xiao (since taken down), 'The possible origins of 2019-nCoV coronavirus." Xiao's team investigated the hypothesis and reported: "According to municipal reports and the testimonies of 31 residents and 28 visitors, the bat was never a food source in the city, and no bat was traded in the market." (Which is where I suspect the "pangolin" story came from; but pangolins are an Endangered Species in China, not something sold in licensed markets.)
Xiao thought a more likely suspect was the Wuhan Center for Disease Control and Prevention, less than 1,000 feet from the market, which was collecting and experimenting on bats at the time; but he now says that, as it was no more than a theory, he withdrew the paper.
https://web.archive.org/web/20200214144447/https:/www.researchgate.net/publication/339070128_The_possible_origins_of_2019-nCoV_coronavirus
I'm impressed that you look at researchgate. There's a lot of interesting stuff there. I use it mostly to find papers on subjects similar to ones I'm working on. The scientific publishers hate it; peer review costs money even if the reviewers only get a book.

Of course Xiao put it forward only as a hypothesis.
Post by George J. Dance
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
2. The virus did not escape from a lab experiment.
Proof?
Not proof, but this has the earmarks of a conspiracy theory.
The conspiracy theorists have certainly latched onto it, but of course they're not the only ones who've reacted to it to push a political agenda. (Notice the two stories I've run do *not* mention either Trump or Pompeo.)
http://gdspoliticalanimal.blogspot.com/2020/04/coronavirus-trail-leads-to-wuhan-labs-i.html
http://gdspoliticalanimal.blogspot.com/2020/04/coronavirus-trail-leads-to-wuhan-labs-ii.html
Not mentioning T or P is good.
Z***@none.i2p
2020-04-21 20:05:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
George J. Dance wrote on Tue, 21 April 2020 14:45
Post by George J. Dance
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we'll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
1. The coronavirus outbreak has been traced to a wet market in Wuhan, China.
Proof? That story's been debunked.
I was not aware of this; do you have a link to prove this? In my opinion this is the most logical reason.
1) The Lancet review, which found that 1/3 of the first 40 cases (including patient 1) could not be connected to the market.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/01/wuhan-seafood-market-may-not-be-source-novel-virus-spreading-globally
2) The Researchgate paper posted by Botao Xiao (since taken down), 'The possible origins of 2019-nCoV coronavirus." Xiao's team investigated the hypothesis and reported: "According to municipal reports and the testimonies of 31 residents and 28 visitors, the bat was never a food source in the city, and no bat was traded in the market." (Which is where I suspect the "pangolin" story came from; but pangolins are an Endangered Species in China, not something sold in licensed markets.)
Xiao thought a more likely suspect was the Wuhan Center for Disease Control and Prevention, less than 1,000 feet from the market, which was collecting and experimenting on bats at the time; but he now says that, as it was no more than a theory, he withdrew the paper.
https://web.archive.org/web/20200214144447/https:/www.researchgate.net/publication/339070128_The_possible_origins_of_2019-nCoV_coronavirus
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
2. The virus did not escape from a lab experiment.
Proof?
Not proof, but this has the earmarks of a conspiracy theory.
The conspiracy theorists have certainly latched onto it, but of course they're not the only ones who've reacted to it to push a political agenda. (Notice the two stories I've run do *not* mention either Trump or Pompeo.)
http://gdspoliticalanimal.blogspot.com/2020/04/coronavirus-trail-leads-to-wuhan-labs-i.html
http://gdspoliticalanimal.blogspot.com/2020/04/coronavirus-trail-leads-to-wuhan-labs-ii.html
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
3. The coronavirus resembles viruses that have been found in bats and pangolins.
The DNA match closely enough that it's believed the coronavirus came from bats. With the pangolins, that isn't the case. Cats, dogs, rhinos, and whales haven't even been suggested.
Post by NancyGene
4. Humans either contracted the virus directly from an animal or through an intermediate host which had contracted it from (probably) a bat.
The genetic evidence indicates the former.
Post by NancyGene
5. Visit an Asian market in your community and let us know what you see.
Lots of Asians; lots of animals. No pangolins, of course.
Post by NancyGene
6. Look at pictures of wet markets in China and read the descriptions.
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html
Strawman. There's no evidence the WIV was making viruses, and plenty that they were investigating coronaviruses found naturally in bats.
Fascinating discussion.....
George J. Dance
2020-04-25 14:56:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Z***@none.i2p
George J. Dance wrote on Tue, 21 April 2020 14:45
Post by George J. Dance
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
1. The coronavirus outbreak has been traced to a wet market in Wuhan, China.
Proof? That story's been debunked.
I was not aware of this; do you have a link to prove this? In my opinion this is the most logical reason.
1) The Lancet review, which found that 1/3 of the first 40 cases (including patient 1) could not be connected to the market.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/01/wuhan-seafood-market-may-not-be-source-novel-virus-spreading-globally
2) The Researchgate paper posted by Botao Xiao (since taken down), 'The possible origins of 2019-nCoV coronavirus." Xiao's team investigated the hypothesis and reported: "According to municipal reports and the testimonies of 31 residents and 28 visitors, the bat was never a food source in the city, and no bat was traded in the market." (Which is where I suspect the "pangolin" story came from; but pangolins are an Endangered Species in China, not something sold in licensed markets.)
Xiao thought a more likely suspect was the Wuhan Center for Disease Control and Prevention, less than 1,000 feet from the market, which was collecting and experimenting on bats at the time; but he now says that, as it was no more than a theory, he withdrew the paper.
https://web.archive.org/web/20200214144447/https:/www.researchgate.net/publication/339070128_The_possible_origins_of_2019-nCoV_coronavirus
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
2. The virus did not escape from a lab experiment.
Proof?
Not proof, but this has the earmarks of a conspiracy theory.
The conspiracy theorists have certainly latched onto it, but of course they're not the only ones who've reacted to it to push a political agenda. (Notice the two stories I've run do *not* mention either Trump or Pompeo.)
http://gdspoliticalanimal.blogspot.com/2020/04/coronavirus-trail-leads-to-wuhan-labs-i.html
http://gdspoliticalanimal.blogspot.com/2020/04/coronavirus-trail-leads-to-wuhan-labs-ii.html
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
3. The coronavirus resembles viruses that have been found in bats and pangolins.
The DNA match closely enough that it's believed the coronavirus came from bats. With the pangolins, that isn't the case. Cats, dogs, rhinos, and whales haven't even been suggested.
Post by NancyGene
4. Humans either contracted the virus directly from an animal or through an intermediate host which had contracted it from (probably) a bat.
The genetic evidence indicates the former.
Post by NancyGene
5. Visit an Asian market in your community and let us know what you see.
Lots of Asians; lots of animals. No pangolins, of course.
Post by NancyGene
6. Look at pictures of wet markets in China and read the descriptions.
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html
Strawman. There's no evidence the WIV was making viruses, and plenty that they were investigating coronaviruses found naturally in bats.
Fascinating discussion.....
Oh, it's a fascinating subject, for sure. I've spent most of this week reading up on it, sometimes into the wee hours. Let me tell you how the "wet market" story began.

When the first cases started to come in, the Chinese government immediately launched an investigation. At the time, they didn't even know about the virus; they were calling the disease "an unknown pneumonia." Even when the virus was found, they had no evidence that it could be spread by human contact; which is what they continued to tell the world right up to mid-January.

So where did the virus come from? Turns out that 2 of the first 3 "unknown pneumonia" patients were connected with the wet market; one was a vendor, one a frequent customer; which led them to hypothesize that the virus was spread by eating infected food.

So they investigated further. The Chinese government is able to track every person's movements by using cellphone data; every time a person uses their cellphone, the government has a record of where he was at that time. (The U.S. cell companies have the same data, BTW, but the Supreme Court has ruled it's protected by the 4th Amendment; the government can access it only with warrant. Matching this data with the patient cases, they were able to connect two-thirds of the first 40 cases, and 49 of the first 100 cases, with the market.

So they visited the market, tested and found the virus there (where exactly wasn't specified), and closed it down. They moved everything out and decontaminated the site, which was probably a good idea security-wise, but which completely obliterated the alleged crime scene.

The whole market story relies on the hypothesis that one can get COVID-19 by eating food containing it. There's still no evidence of that; and we have more than enough evidence that the virus is actually spread through the air by breathing.
k***@gmail.com
2020-04-25 15:34:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by George J. Dance
Post by Z***@none.i2p
George J. Dance wrote on Tue, 21 April 2020 14:45
Post by George J. Dance
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
1. The coronavirus outbreak has been traced to a wet market in Wuhan, China.
Proof? That story's been debunked.
I was not aware of this; do you have a link to prove this? In my opinion this is the most logical reason.
1) The Lancet review, which found that 1/3 of the first 40 cases (including patient 1) could not be connected to the market.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/01/wuhan-seafood-market-may-not-be-source-novel-virus-spreading-globally
2) The Researchgate paper posted by Botao Xiao (since taken down), 'The possible origins of 2019-nCoV coronavirus." Xiao's team investigated the hypothesis and reported: "According to municipal reports and the testimonies of 31 residents and 28 visitors, the bat was never a food source in the city, and no bat was traded in the market." (Which is where I suspect the "pangolin" story came from; but pangolins are an Endangered Species in China, not something sold in licensed markets.)
Xiao thought a more likely suspect was the Wuhan Center for Disease Control and Prevention, less than 1,000 feet from the market, which was collecting and experimenting on bats at the time; but he now says that, as it was no more than a theory, he withdrew the paper.
https://web.archive.org/web/20200214144447/https:/www.researchgate.net/publication/339070128_The_possible_origins_of_2019-nCoV_coronavirus
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
2. The virus did not escape from a lab experiment.
Proof?
Not proof, but this has the earmarks of a conspiracy theory.
The conspiracy theorists have certainly latched onto it, but of course they're not the only ones who've reacted to it to push a political agenda. (Notice the two stories I've run do *not* mention either Trump or Pompeo.)
http://gdspoliticalanimal.blogspot.com/2020/04/coronavirus-trail-leads-to-wuhan-labs-i.html
http://gdspoliticalanimal.blogspot.com/2020/04/coronavirus-trail-leads-to-wuhan-labs-ii.html
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
3. The coronavirus resembles viruses that have been found in bats and pangolins.
The DNA match closely enough that it's believed the coronavirus came from bats. With the pangolins, that isn't the case. Cats, dogs, rhinos, and whales haven't even been suggested.
Post by NancyGene
4. Humans either contracted the virus directly from an animal or through an intermediate host which had contracted it from (probably) a bat.
The genetic evidence indicates the former.
Post by NancyGene
5. Visit an Asian market in your community and let us know what you see.
Lots of Asians; lots of animals. No pangolins, of course.
Post by NancyGene
6. Look at pictures of wet markets in China and read the descriptions.
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html
Strawman. There's no evidence the WIV was making viruses, and plenty that they were investigating coronaviruses found naturally in bats.
Fascinating discussion.....
Oh, it's a fascinating subject, for sure. I've spent most of this week reading up on it, sometimes into the wee hours. Let me tell you how the "wet market" story began.
When the first cases started to come in, the Chinese government immediately launched an investigation. At the time, they didn't even know about the virus; they were calling the disease "an unknown pneumonia." Even when the virus was found, they had no evidence that it could be spread by human contact; which is what they continued to tell the world right up to mid-January.
So where did the virus come from? Turns out that 2 of the first 3 "unknown pneumonia" patients were connected with the wet market; one was a vendor, one a frequent customer; which led them to hypothesize that the virus was spread by eating infected food.
So they investigated further. The Chinese government is able to track every person's movements by using cellphone data; every time a person uses their cellphone, the government has a record of where he was at that time. (The U.S. cell companies have the same data, BTW, but the Supreme Court has ruled it's protected by the 4th Amendment; the government can access it only with warrant. Matching this data with the patient cases, they were able to connect two-thirds of the first 40 cases, and 49 of the first 100 cases, with the market.
So they visited the market, tested and found the virus there (where exactly wasn't specified), and closed it down. They moved everything out and decontaminated the site, which was probably a good idea security-wise, but which completely obliterated the alleged crime scene.
The whole market story relies on the hypothesis that one can get COVID-19 by eating food containing it. There's still no evidence of that; and we have more than enough evidence that the virus is actually spread through the air by breathing.
This is more or less what the better news sources are saying.

The virus was traced to vendors in a wet market in Wuhan.
The virus resemble those found in bats and pangolins.

This is also known:
Bats and pangolins were sold at this wet market because some people eat them.

The above is not a particularly racist statement.

Many human infectious diseases originated in animals. HIV in humans was traced back to chimps around 1820, this is from scientific research, not racism.

The Chinese people are not evil or dirty; COVID 19 somehow passed from bats or pangolins to humans. It just happened and finger pointing is not going to solve the problem.
ME
2020-04-25 16:45:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by George J. Dance
Post by Z***@none.i2p
George J. Dance wrote on Tue, 21 April 2020 14:45
Post by George J. Dance
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
1. The coronavirus outbreak has been traced to a wet market in Wuhan, China.
Proof? That story's been debunked.
I was not aware of this; do you have a link to prove this? In my opinion this is the most logical reason.
1) The Lancet review, which found that 1/3 of the first 40 cases (including patient 1) could not be connected to the market.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/01/wuhan-seafood-market-may-not-be-source-novel-virus-spreading-globally
2) The Researchgate paper posted by Botao Xiao (since taken down), 'The possible origins of 2019-nCoV coronavirus." Xiao's team investigated the hypothesis and reported: "According to municipal reports and the testimonies of 31 residents and 28 visitors, the bat was never a food source in the city, and no bat was traded in the market." (Which is where I suspect the "pangolin" story came from; but pangolins are an Endangered Species in China, not something sold in licensed markets.)
Xiao thought a more likely suspect was the Wuhan Center for Disease Control and Prevention, less than 1,000 feet from the market, which was collecting and experimenting on bats at the time; but he now says that, as it was no more than a theory, he withdrew the paper.
https://web.archive.org/web/20200214144447/https:/www.researchgate.net/publication/339070128_The_possible_origins_of_2019-nCoV_coronavirus
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
2. The virus did not escape from a lab experiment.
Proof?
Not proof, but this has the earmarks of a conspiracy theory.
The conspiracy theorists have certainly latched onto it, but of course they're not the only ones who've reacted to it to push a political agenda. (Notice the two stories I've run do *not* mention either Trump or Pompeo.)
http://gdspoliticalanimal.blogspot.com/2020/04/coronavirus-trail-leads-to-wuhan-labs-i.html
http://gdspoliticalanimal.blogspot.com/2020/04/coronavirus-trail-leads-to-wuhan-labs-ii.html
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
3. The coronavirus resembles viruses that have been found in bats and pangolins.
The DNA match closely enough that it's believed the coronavirus came from bats. With the pangolins, that isn't the case. Cats, dogs, rhinos, and whales haven't even been suggested.
Post by NancyGene
4. Humans either contracted the virus directly from an animal or through an intermediate host which had contracted it from (probably) a bat.
The genetic evidence indicates the former.
Post by NancyGene
5. Visit an Asian market in your community and let us know what you see.
Lots of Asians; lots of animals. No pangolins, of course.
Post by NancyGene
6. Look at pictures of wet markets in China and read the descriptions.
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html
Strawman. There's no evidence the WIV was making viruses, and plenty that they were investigating coronaviruses found naturally in bats.
Fascinating discussion.....
Oh, it's a fascinating subject, for sure. I've spent most of this week reading up on it, sometimes into the wee hours. Let me tell you how the "wet market" story began.
When the first cases started to come in, the Chinese government immediately launched an investigation. At the time, they didn't even know about the virus; they were calling the disease "an unknown pneumonia." Even when the virus was found, they had no evidence that it could be spread by human contact; which is what they continued to tell the world right up to mid-January.
So where did the virus come from? Turns out that 2 of the first 3 "unknown pneumonia" patients were connected with the wet market; one was a vendor, one a frequent customer; which led them to hypothesize that the virus was spread by eating infected food.
So they investigated further. The Chinese government is able to track every person's movements by using cellphone data; every time a person uses their cellphone, the government has a record of where he was at that time. (The U.S. cell companies have the same data, BTW, but the Supreme Court has ruled it's protected by the 4th Amendment; the government can access it only with warrant. Matching this data with the patient cases, they were able to connect two-thirds of the first 40 cases, and 49 of the first 100 cases, with the market.
So they visited the market, tested and found the virus there (where exactly wasn't specified), and closed it down. They moved everything out and decontaminated the site, which was probably a good idea security-wise, but which completely obliterated the alleged crime scene.
The whole market story relies on the hypothesis that one can get COVID-19 by eating food containing it. There's still no evidence of that; and we have more than enough evidence that the virus is actually spread through the air by breathing.
This is more or less what the better news sources are saying.
The virus was traced to vendors in a wet market in Wuhan.
The virus resemble those found in bats and pangolins.
Bats and pangolins were sold at this wet market because some people eat them.
The above is not a particularly racist statement.
Many human infectious diseases originated in animals. HIV in humans was traced back to chimps around 1820, this is from scientific research, not racism.
The Chinese people are not evil or dirty; COVID 19 somehow passed from bats or pangolins to humans. It just happened and finger pointing is not going to solve the problem.
That’s what I have understood, also, from the articles I’ve read by scientists and doctors.
I think they’ll find that Covid was here in America before February
George J. Dance
2020-04-27 04:40:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by George J. Dance
Post by Z***@none.i2p
George J. Dance wrote on Tue, 21 April 2020 14:45
Post by George J. Dance
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
1. The coronavirus outbreak has been traced to a wet market in Wuhan, China.
Proof? That story's been debunked.
I was not aware of this; do you have a link to prove this? In my opinion this is the most logical reason.
1) The Lancet review, which found that 1/3 of the first 40 cases (including patient 1) could not be connected to the market.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/01/wuhan-seafood-market-may-not-be-source-novel-virus-spreading-globally
2) The Researchgate paper posted by Botao Xiao (since taken down), 'The possible origins of 2019-nCoV coronavirus." Xiao's team investigated the hypothesis and reported: "According to municipal reports and the testimonies of 31 residents and 28 visitors, the bat was never a food source in the city, and no bat was traded in the market." (Which is where I suspect the "pangolin" story came from; but pangolins are an Endangered Species in China, not something sold in licensed markets.)
Xiao thought a more likely suspect was the Wuhan Center for Disease Control and Prevention, less than 1,000 feet from the market, which was collecting and experimenting on bats at the time; but he now says that, as it was no more than a theory, he withdrew the paper.
https://web.archive.org/web/20200214144447/https:/www.researchgate.net/publication/339070128_The_possible_origins_of_2019-nCoV_coronavirus
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
2. The virus did not escape from a lab experiment.
Proof?
Not proof, but this has the earmarks of a conspiracy theory.
The conspiracy theorists have certainly latched onto it, but of course they're not the only ones who've reacted to it to push a political agenda. (Notice the two stories I've run do *not* mention either Trump or Pompeo.)
http://gdspoliticalanimal.blogspot.com/2020/04/coronavirus-trail-leads-to-wuhan-labs-i.html
http://gdspoliticalanimal.blogspot.com/2020/04/coronavirus-trail-leads-to-wuhan-labs-ii.html
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
3. The coronavirus resembles viruses that have been found in bats and pangolins.
The DNA match closely enough that it's believed the coronavirus came from bats. With the pangolins, that isn't the case. Cats, dogs, rhinos, and whales haven't even been suggested.
Post by NancyGene
4. Humans either contracted the virus directly from an animal or through an intermediate host which had contracted it from (probably) a bat.
The genetic evidence indicates the former.
Post by NancyGene
5. Visit an Asian market in your community and let us know what you see.
Lots of Asians; lots of animals. No pangolins, of course.
Post by NancyGene
6. Look at pictures of wet markets in China and read the descriptions.
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html
Strawman. There's no evidence the WIV was making viruses, and plenty that they were investigating coronaviruses found naturally in bats.
Fascinating discussion.....
Oh, it's a fascinating subject, for sure. I've spent most of this week reading up on it, sometimes into the wee hours. Let me tell you how the "wet market" story began.
When the first cases started to come in, the Chinese government immediately launched an investigation. At the time, they didn't even know about the virus; they were calling the disease "an unknown pneumonia." Even when the virus was found, they had no evidence that it could be spread by human contact; which is what they continued to tell the world right up to mid-January.
So where did the virus come from? Turns out that 2 of the first 3 "unknown pneumonia" patients were connected with the wet market; one was a vendor, one a frequent customer; which led them to hypothesize that the virus was spread by eating infected food.
So they investigated further. The Chinese government is able to track every person's movements by using cellphone data; every time a person uses their cellphone, the government has a record of where he was at that time. (The U.S. cell companies have the same data, BTW, but the Supreme Court has ruled it's protected by the 4th Amendment; the government can access it only with warrant. Matching this data with the patient cases, they were able to connect two-thirds of the first 40 cases, and 49 of the first 100 cases, with the market.
So they visited the market, tested and found the virus there (where exactly wasn't specified), and closed it down. They moved everything out and decontaminated the site, which was probably a good idea security-wise, but which completely obliterated the alleged crime scene.
The whole market story relies on the hypothesis that one can get COVID-19 by eating food containing it. There's still no evidence of that; and we have more than enough evidence that the virus is actually spread through the air by breathing.
This is more or less what the better news sources are saying.
The virus was traced to vendors in a wet market in Wuhan.
The virus resemble those found in bats and pangolins.
That's what I said - 2 of the first cases, 26 of the first 40, and 49 of the first 100 were traced to the market.
Post by k***@gmail.com
Bats and pangolins were sold at this wet market because some people eat them.
I'm sorry, but I've read no media that claimed bats and pangolins were in fact sold at that market. I've already given you my cite for my claim that bats were not sold at the market; please show me yours.
Post by k***@gmail.com
The above is not a particularly racist statement.
No, it isn't. However, trying to blame the coronavirus on the people who eat bats would be.
Post by k***@gmail.com
Many human infectious diseases originated in animals. HIV in humans was traced back to chimps around 1820, this is from scientific research, not racism.
Yes, of course. But that's not a point in contention. SARS coronaviruses come from bats; that's also from scientific research, not racism (certainly not from anti-Chinese racism, as it's been in large part Chinese research).
Post by k***@gmail.com
The Chinese people are not evil or dirty; COVID 19 somehow passed from bats or pangolins to humans. It just happened and finger pointing is not going to solve the problem.
I disagree. Finding out what actually happened this time is crucial to stopping the same thing from happening next time.
Z***@none.i2p
2020-04-25 16:53:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
George J. Dance wrote on Sat, 25 April 2020 14:56
Post by George J. Dance
Post by Z***@none.i2p
George J. Dance wrote on Tue, 21 April 2020 14:45
Post by George J. Dance
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
1. The coronavirus outbreak has been traced to a wet market in Wuhan, China.
Proof? That story's been debunked.
I was not aware of this; do you have a link to prove this? In my opinion this is the most logical reason.
1) The Lancet review, which found that 1/3 of the first 40 cases (including patient 1) could not be connected to the market.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/01/wuhan-seafood-market-may-not-be-source-novel-virus-spreading-globally
2) The Researchgate paper posted by Botao Xiao (since taken down), 'The possible origins of 2019-nCoV coronavirus." Xiao's team investigated the hypothesis and reported: "According to municipal reports and the testimonies of 31 residents and 28 visitors, the bat was never a food source in the city, and no bat was traded in the market." (Which is where I suspect the "pangolin" story came from; but pangolins are an Endangered Species in China, not something sold in licensed markets.)
Xiao thought a more likely suspect was the Wuhan Center for Disease Control and Prevention, less than 1,000 feet from the market, which was collecting and experimenting on bats at the time; but he now says that, as it was no more than a theory, he withdrew the paper.
https://web.archive.org/web/20200214144447/https:/www.researchgate.net/publication/339070128_The_possible_origins_of_2019-nCoV_coronavirus
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
2. The virus did not escape from a lab experiment.
Proof?
Not proof, but this has the earmarks of a conspiracy theory.
The conspiracy theorists have certainly latched onto it, but of course they're not the only ones who've reacted to it to push a political agenda. (Notice the two stories I've run do *not* mention either Trump or Pompeo.)
http://gdspoliticalanimal.blogspot.com/2020/04/coronavirus-trail-leads-to-wuhan-labs-i.html
http://gdspoliticalanimal.blogspot.com/2020/04/coronavirus-trail-leads-to-wuhan-labs-ii.html
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
3. The coronavirus resembles viruses that have been found in bats and pangolins.
The DNA match closely enough that it's believed the coronavirus came from bats. With the pangolins, that isn't the case. Cats, dogs, rhinos, and whales haven't even been suggested.
Post by NancyGene
4. Humans either contracted the virus directly from an animal or through an intermediate host which had contracted it from (probably) a bat.
The genetic evidence indicates the former.
Post by NancyGene
5. Visit an Asian market in your community and let us know what you see.
Lots of Asians; lots of animals. No pangolins, of course.
Post by NancyGene
6. Look at pictures of wet markets in China and read the descriptions.
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html
Strawman. There's no evidence the WIV was making viruses, and plenty that they were investigating coronaviruses found naturally in bats.
Fascinating discussion.....
Oh, it's a fascinating subject, for sure. I've spent most of this week reading up on it, sometimes into the wee hours. Let me tell you how the "wet market" story began.
When the first cases started to come in, the Chinese government immediately launched an investigation. At the time, they didn't even know about the virus; they were calling the disease "an unknown pneumonia." Even when the virus was found, they had no evidence that it could be spread by human contact; which is what they continued to tell the world right up to mid-January.
So where did the virus come from? Turns out that 2 of the first 3 "unknown pneumonia" patients were connected with the wet market; one was a vendor, one a frequent customer; which led them to hypothesize that the virus was spread by eating infected food.
So they investigated further. The Chinese government is able to track every person's movements by using cellphone data; every time a person uses their cellphone, the government has a record of where he was at that time. (The U.S. cell companies have the same data, BTW, but the Supreme Court has ruled it's protected by the 4th Amendment; the government can access it only with warrant. Matching this data with the patient cases, they were able to connect two-thirds of the first 40 cases, and 49 of the first 100 cases, with the market.
So they visited the market, tested and found the virus there (where exactly wasn't specified), and closed it down. They moved everything out and decontaminated the site, which was probably a good idea security-wise, but which completely obliterated the alleged crime scene.
The whole market story relies on the hypothesis that one can get COVID-19 by eating food containing it. There's still no evidence of that; and we have more than enough evidence that the virus is actually spread through the air by breathing.
Well put, G.D.
NancyGene
2020-04-25 17:16:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by George J. Dance
Post by Z***@none.i2p
George J. Dance wrote on Tue, 21 April 2020 14:45
Post by George J. Dance
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
1. The coronavirus outbreak has been traced to a wet market in Wuhan, China.
Proof? That story's been debunked.
I was not aware of this; do you have a link to prove this? In my opinion this is the most logical reason.
1) The Lancet review, which found that 1/3 of the first 40 cases (including patient 1) could not be connected to the market.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/01/wuhan-seafood-market-may-not-be-source-novel-virus-spreading-globally
2) The Researchgate paper posted by Botao Xiao (since taken down), 'The possible origins of 2019-nCoV coronavirus." Xiao's team investigated the hypothesis and reported: "According to municipal reports and the testimonies of 31 residents and 28 visitors, the bat was never a food source in the city, and no bat was traded in the market." (Which is where I suspect the "pangolin" story came from; but pangolins are an Endangered Species in China, not something sold in licensed markets.)
Xiao thought a more likely suspect was the Wuhan Center for Disease Control and Prevention, less than 1,000 feet from the market, which was collecting and experimenting on bats at the time; but he now says that, as it was no more than a theory, he withdrew the paper.
https://web.archive.org/web/20200214144447/https:/www.researchgate.net/publication/339070128_The_possible_origins_of_2019-nCoV_coronavirus
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
2. The virus did not escape from a lab experiment.
Proof?
Not proof, but this has the earmarks of a conspiracy theory.
The conspiracy theorists have certainly latched onto it, but of course they're not the only ones who've reacted to it to push a political agenda. (Notice the two stories I've run do *not* mention either Trump or Pompeo.)
http://gdspoliticalanimal.blogspot.com/2020/04/coronavirus-trail-leads-to-wuhan-labs-i.html
http://gdspoliticalanimal.blogspot.com/2020/04/coronavirus-trail-leads-to-wuhan-labs-ii.html
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
3. The coronavirus resembles viruses that have been found in bats and pangolins.
The DNA match closely enough that it's believed the coronavirus came from bats. With the pangolins, that isn't the case. Cats, dogs, rhinos, and whales haven't even been suggested.
Post by NancyGene
4. Humans either contracted the virus directly from an animal or through an intermediate host which had contracted it from (probably) a bat.
The genetic evidence indicates the former.
Post by NancyGene
5. Visit an Asian market in your community and let us know what you see.
Lots of Asians; lots of animals. No pangolins, of course.
Post by NancyGene
6. Look at pictures of wet markets in China and read the descriptions.
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html
Strawman. There's no evidence the WIV was making viruses, and plenty that they were investigating coronaviruses found naturally in bats.
Fascinating discussion.....
Oh, it's a fascinating subject, for sure. I've spent most of this week reading up on it, sometimes into the wee hours. Let me tell you how the "wet market" story began.
When the first cases started to come in, the Chinese government immediately launched an investigation. At the time, they didn't even know about the virus; they were calling the disease "an unknown pneumonia." Even when the virus was found, they had no evidence that it could be spread by human contact; which is what they continued to tell the world right up to mid-January.
So where did the virus come from? Turns out that 2 of the first 3 "unknown pneumonia" patients were connected with the wet market; one was a vendor, one a frequent customer; which led them to hypothesize that the virus was spread by eating infected food.
So they investigated further. The Chinese government is able to track every person's movements by using cellphone data; every time a person uses their cellphone, the government has a record of where he was at that time. (The U.S. cell companies have the same data, BTW, but the Supreme Court has ruled it's protected by the 4th Amendment; the government can access it only with warrant. Matching this data with the patient cases, they were able to connect two-thirds of the first 40 cases, and 49 of the first 100 cases, with the market.
So they visited the market, tested and found the virus there (where exactly wasn't specified), and closed it down. They moved everything out and decontaminated the site, which was probably a good idea security-wise, but which completely obliterated the alleged crime scene.
The whole market story relies on the hypothesis that one can get COVID-19 by eating food containing it. There's still no evidence of that; and we have more than enough evidence that the virus is actually spread through the air by breathing.
George Dunce, Citizen Scientist, gets it all wrong. The "whole market story" does not rely on the hypothesis of eating the bats or pangolins, but *handling* them and being in close proximity to them. How many of the vendors had on masks and gloves in the original market configuration? These were tightly packed markets with a lot of customers. We would be interested to see the citation for Dunce's claim that eating the animals was the culprit. That was not in our poem at any rate.

"they had no evidence that it could be spread by human contact;" How else would the virus spread from human to human, other than "human contact?" The virus was on surfaces (animal surfaces?) and in respiratory droplets.

Bats and pangolin scales are ingredients in Chinese "traditional" medicine. The markets supplied these substances. Handling these products without gloves, sneezing, touching one's face, touching someone else, touching animals--should have been enough to spread something.

China is putting out a lot of propaganda, and the numbers are unreliable. The first case in Wuhan "may" have been in late December.

The cell phone data, as we understand it, tracked possible virus carriers as they moved "out" of the city, not the ones who were at the market originally. If George has citations for his precise tracking claims, he is asked to provide them. Besides, cell phone tracking in China is not that precise--and can be off by as much as 2 kilometers.

We see no evidence that the virus was "found" at the wet market as George claims--only that there were cases in individuals who had been at or in close proximity to the market or those who had been at the market. If George has a citation for this, we would like to see it.

George Dunce needs to read scientific articles and not data mine what he finds on the Internet in the late hours. He is on the conspiracy theory train.
George J. Dance
2020-04-27 09:00:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by NancyGene
Post by George J. Dance
Post by Z***@none.i2p
George J. Dance wrote on Tue, 21 April 2020 14:45
Post by George J. Dance
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
1. The coronavirus outbreak has been traced to a wet market in Wuhan, China.
Proof? That story's been debunked.
I was not aware of this; do you have a link to prove this? In my opinion this is the most logical reason.
1) The Lancet review, which found that 1/3 of the first 40 cases (including patient 1) could not be connected to the market.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/01/wuhan-seafood-market-may-not-be-source-novel-virus-spreading-globally
2) The Researchgate paper posted by Botao Xiao (since taken down), 'The possible origins of 2019-nCoV coronavirus." Xiao's team investigated the hypothesis and reported: "According to municipal reports and the testimonies of 31 residents and 28 visitors, the bat was never a food source in the city, and no bat was traded in the market." (Which is where I suspect the "pangolin" story came from; but pangolins are an Endangered Species in China, not something sold in licensed markets.)
Xiao thought a more likely suspect was the Wuhan Center for Disease Control and Prevention, less than 1,000 feet from the market, which was collecting and experimenting on bats at the time; but he now says that, as it was no more than a theory, he withdrew the paper.
https://web.archive.org/web/20200214144447/https:/www.researchgate.net/publication/339070128_The_possible_origins_of_2019-nCoV_coronavirus
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
2. The virus did not escape from a lab experiment.
Proof?
Not proof, but this has the earmarks of a conspiracy theory.
The conspiracy theorists have certainly latched onto it, but of course they're not the only ones who've reacted to it to push a political agenda. (Notice the two stories I've run do *not* mention either Trump or Pompeo.)
http://gdspoliticalanimal.blogspot.com/2020/04/coronavirus-trail-leads-to-wuhan-labs-i.html
http://gdspoliticalanimal.blogspot.com/2020/04/coronavirus-trail-leads-to-wuhan-labs-ii.html
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
3. The coronavirus resembles viruses that have been found in bats and pangolins.
The DNA match closely enough that it's believed the coronavirus came from bats. With the pangolins, that isn't the case. Cats, dogs, rhinos, and whales haven't even been suggested.
Post by NancyGene
4. Humans either contracted the virus directly from an animal or through an intermediate host which had contracted it from (probably) a bat.
The genetic evidence indicates the former.
Post by NancyGene
5. Visit an Asian market in your community and let us know what you see.
Lots of Asians; lots of animals. No pangolins, of course.
Post by NancyGene
6. Look at pictures of wet markets in China and read the descriptions.
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html
Strawman. There's no evidence the WIV was making viruses, and plenty that they were investigating coronaviruses found naturally in bats.
Fascinating discussion.....
Oh, it's a fascinating subject, for sure. I've spent most of this week reading up on it, sometimes into the wee hours. Let me tell you how the "wet market" story began.
When the first cases started to come in, the Chinese government immediately launched an investigation. At the time, they didn't even know about the virus; they were calling the disease "an unknown pneumonia." Even when the virus was found, they had no evidence that it could be spread by human contact; which is what they continued to tell the world right up to mid-January.
So where did the virus come from? Turns out that 2 of the first 3 "unknown pneumonia" patients were connected with the wet market; one was a vendor, one a frequent customer; which led them to hypothesize that the virus was spread by eating infected food.
So they investigated further. The Chinese government is able to track every person's movements by using cellphone data; every time a person uses their cellphone, the government has a record of where he was at that time. (The U.S. cell companies have the same data, BTW, but the Supreme Court has ruled it's protected by the 4th Amendment; the government can access it only with warrant. Matching this data with the patient cases, they were able to connect two-thirds of the first 40 cases, and 49 of the first 100 cases, with the market.
So they visited the market, tested and found the virus there (where exactly wasn't specified), and closed it down. They moved everything out and decontaminated the site, which was probably a good idea security-wise, but which completely obliterated the alleged crime scene.
The whole market story relies on the hypothesis that one can get COVID-19 by eating food containing it. There's still no evidence of that; and we have more than enough evidence that the virus is actually spread through the air by breathing.
George Dunce, Citizen Scientist, gets it all wrong. The "whole market story" does not rely on the hypothesis of eating the bats or pangolins, but *handling* them and being in close proximity to them.
Oh; so when you were wrote, " We can see the competition for food resources in a country that has a population of almost a billion and a half people. They eat what they can find.. However, some things really are dangerous to eat."
- you weren't talking about the dangers of eating. Riiight.
Post by NancyGene
How many of the vendors had on masks and gloves in the original market configuration? These were tightly packed markets with a lot of customers. We would be interested to see the citation for Dunce's claim that eating the animals was the culprit. That was not in our poem at any rate.
Well, I'm glad you repudiating the story that it the virus was caused by Chinese people eating bats and pangolins; though less so that you've decided to pretend that racist hypothesis was "Dunce's claim."
Post by NancyGene
"they had no evidence that it could be spread by human contact;" How else would the virus spread from human to human, other than "human contact?"
Here's a cite. "And the fact that the Chinese government spent six weeks insisting that COVID-19 could not be spread from person to person means that its denials about Wuhan laboratories cannot be accepted without independent verification." https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/04/coronavirus-china-trail-leading-back-to-wuhan-labs/

If you want to challenge it, find a better one.
Post by NancyGene
The virus was on surfaces (animal surfaces?) and in respiratory droplets.
Bats and pangolin scales are ingredients in Chinese "traditional" medicine. The markets supplied these substances. Handling these products without gloves, sneezing, touching one's face, touching someone else, touching animals--should have been enough to spread something.
China is putting out a lot of propaganda, and the numbers are unreliable.
True. OTOH, all the Chicom propaganda is to the effect that the virus did not come from a lab in Wuhan.
Post by NancyGene
The first case in Wuhan "may" have been in late December.
Or November. Or, some Chicom propaganda organs have claimed, mid-October.
Post by NancyGene
The cell phone data, as we understand it, tracked possible virus carriers as they moved "out" of the city, not the ones who were at the market originally.
It can be used to trace anyone's movements, at any time. The government can know where you are at any time, if you use your cellphone there.
Post by NancyGene
If George has citations for his precise tracking claims, he is asked to provide them.
Sure; I'll just call up the Chinese Embassy and ask them, "Does your government use cellphone data to monitor suspects?" I'm sure they'll be quite open and transparent about it.

What's your point? You've agreed with me that the virus was traced to the market; why do you want to fight about how that was accomplished?

Besides, cell phone tracking in China is not that precise--and can be off by as much as 2 kilometers.

Are you trying to say now that the virus was not traced to the market? If not, what's your point with this diversion?
Post by NancyGene
We see no evidence that the virus was "found" at the wet market as George claims
Yet you just said: "The virus was on surfaces (animal surfaces?) and in respiratory droplets" at the market." Thank you for admitting you had no evidence for that claim.
Post by NancyGene
--only that there were cases in individuals who had been at or in close proximity to the market or those who had been at the market. If George has a citation for this, we would like to see it.
It was your claim first - back it up yourself.
Post by NancyGene
George Dunce needs to read scientific articles and not data mine what he finds on the Internet in the late hours. He is on the conspiracy theory train.
Calling the lab leak theory a "conspiracy theory" and "fake news" hasn't worked out very well for the Chinese government. What makes you think you'll do better?
Hieronymous Corey
2020-04-27 09:09:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
Post by George J. Dance
Post by Z***@none.i2p
George J. Dance wrote on Tue, 21 April 2020 14:45
Post by George J. Dance
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
1. The coronavirus outbreak has been traced to a wet market in Wuhan, China.
Proof? That story's been debunked.
I was not aware of this; do you have a link to prove this? In my opinion this is the most logical reason.
1) The Lancet review, which found that 1/3 of the first 40 cases (including patient 1) could not be connected to the market.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/01/wuhan-seafood-market-may-not-be-source-novel-virus-spreading-globally
2) The Researchgate paper posted by Botao Xiao (since taken down), 'The possible origins of 2019-nCoV coronavirus." Xiao's team investigated the hypothesis and reported: "According to municipal reports and the testimonies of 31 residents and 28 visitors, the bat was never a food source in the city, and no bat was traded in the market." (Which is where I suspect the "pangolin" story came from; but pangolins are an Endangered Species in China, not something sold in licensed markets.)
Xiao thought a more likely suspect was the Wuhan Center for Disease Control and Prevention, less than 1,000 feet from the market, which was collecting and experimenting on bats at the time; but he now says that, as it was no more than a theory, he withdrew the paper.
https://web.archive.org/web/20200214144447/https:/www.researchgate.net/publication/339070128_The_possible_origins_of_2019-nCoV_coronavirus
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
2. The virus did not escape from a lab experiment.
Proof?
Not proof, but this has the earmarks of a conspiracy theory.
The conspiracy theorists have certainly latched onto it, but of course they're not the only ones who've reacted to it to push a political agenda. (Notice the two stories I've run do *not* mention either Trump or Pompeo.)
http://gdspoliticalanimal.blogspot.com/2020/04/coronavirus-trail-leads-to-wuhan-labs-i.html
http://gdspoliticalanimal.blogspot.com/2020/04/coronavirus-trail-leads-to-wuhan-labs-ii.html
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
3. The coronavirus resembles viruses that have been found in bats and pangolins.
The DNA match closely enough that it's believed the coronavirus came from bats. With the pangolins, that isn't the case. Cats, dogs, rhinos, and whales haven't even been suggested.
Post by NancyGene
4. Humans either contracted the virus directly from an animal or through an intermediate host which had contracted it from (probably) a bat.
The genetic evidence indicates the former.
Post by NancyGene
5. Visit an Asian market in your community and let us know what you see.
Lots of Asians; lots of animals. No pangolins, of course.
Post by NancyGene
6. Look at pictures of wet markets in China and read the descriptions.
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html
Strawman. There's no evidence the WIV was making viruses, and plenty that they were investigating coronaviruses found naturally in bats.
Fascinating discussion.....
Oh, it's a fascinating subject, for sure. I've spent most of this week reading up on it, sometimes into the wee hours. Let me tell you how the "wet market" story began.
When the first cases started to come in, the Chinese government immediately launched an investigation. At the time, they didn't even know about the virus; they were calling the disease "an unknown pneumonia." Even when the virus was found, they had no evidence that it could be spread by human contact; which is what they continued to tell the world right up to mid-January.
So where did the virus come from? Turns out that 2 of the first 3 "unknown pneumonia" patients were connected with the wet market; one was a vendor, one a frequent customer; which led them to hypothesize that the virus was spread by eating infected food.
So they investigated further. The Chinese government is able to track every person's movements by using cellphone data; every time a person uses their cellphone, the government has a record of where he was at that time. (The U.S. cell companies have the same data, BTW, but the Supreme Court has ruled it's protected by the 4th Amendment; the government can access it only with warrant. Matching this data with the patient cases, they were able to connect two-thirds of the first 40 cases, and 49 of the first 100 cases, with the market.
So they visited the market, tested and found the virus there (where exactly wasn't specified), and closed it down. They moved everything out and decontaminated the site, which was probably a good idea security-wise, but which completely obliterated the alleged crime scene.
The whole market story relies on the hypothesis that one can get COVID-19 by eating food containing it. There's still no evidence of that; and we have more than enough evidence that the virus is actually spread through the air by breathing.
George Dunce, Citizen Scientist, gets it all wrong. The "whole market story" does not rely on the hypothesis of eating the bats or pangolins, but *handling* them and being in close proximity to them.
Oh; so when you were wrote, " We can see the competition for food resources in a country that has a population of almost a billion and a half people. They eat what they can find.. However, some things really are dangerous to eat."
- you weren't talking about the dangers of eating. Riiight.
Post by NancyGene
How many of the vendors had on masks and gloves in the original market configuration? These were tightly packed markets with a lot of customers. We would be interested to see the citation for Dunce's claim that eating the animals was the culprit. That was not in our poem at any rate.
Well, I'm glad you repudiating the story that it the virus was caused by Chinese people eating bats and pangolins; though less so that you've decided to pretend that racist hypothesis was "Dunce's claim."
Post by NancyGene
"they had no evidence that it could be spread by human contact;" How else would the virus spread from human to human, other than "human contact?"
Here's a cite. "And the fact that the Chinese government spent six weeks insisting that COVID-19 could not be spread from person to person means that its denials about Wuhan laboratories cannot be accepted without independent verification." https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/04/coronavirus-china-trail-leading-back-to-wuhan-labs/
If you want to challenge it, find a better one.
Post by NancyGene
The virus was on surfaces (animal surfaces?) and in respiratory droplets.
Bats and pangolin scales are ingredients in Chinese "traditional" medicine. The markets supplied these substances. Handling these products without gloves, sneezing, touching one's face, touching someone else, touching animals--should have been enough to spread something.
China is putting out a lot of propaganda, and the numbers are unreliable.
True. OTOH, all the Chicom propaganda is to the effect that the virus did not come from a lab in Wuhan.
Post by NancyGene
The first case in Wuhan "may" have been in late December.
Or November. Or, some Chicom propaganda organs have claimed, mid-October.
Post by NancyGene
The cell phone data, as we understand it, tracked possible virus carriers as they moved "out" of the city, not the ones who were at the market originally.
It can be used to trace anyone's movements, at any time. The government can know where you are at any time, if you use your cellphone there.
Post by NancyGene
If George has citations for his precise tracking claims, he is asked to provide them.
Sure; I'll just call up the Chinese Embassy and ask them, "Does your government use cellphone data to monitor suspects?" I'm sure they'll be quite open and transparent about it.
What's your point? You've agreed with me that the virus was traced to the market; why do you want to fight about how that was accomplished?
Besides, cell phone tracking in China is not that precise--and can be off by as much as 2 kilometers.
Are you trying to say now that the virus was not traced to the market? If not, what's your point with this diversion?
Post by NancyGene
We see no evidence that the virus was "found" at the wet market as George claims
Yet you just said: "The virus was on surfaces (animal surfaces?) and in respiratory droplets" at the market." Thank you for admitting you had no evidence for that claim.
Post by NancyGene
--only that there were cases in individuals who had been at or in close proximity to the market or those who had been at the market. If George has a citation for this, we would like to see it.
It was your claim first - back it up yourself.
Post by NancyGene
George Dunce needs to read scientific articles and not data mine what he finds on the Internet in the late hours. He is on the conspiracy theory train.
Calling the lab leak theory a "conspiracy theory" and "fake news" hasn't worked out very well for the Chinese government. What makes you think you'll do better?
Good morning, George.
Do you like Chinese food?
George J. Dance
2020-04-27 09:32:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Hieronymous Corey
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
Post by George J. Dance
Post by Z***@none.i2p
George J. Dance wrote on Tue, 21 April 2020 14:45
Post by George J. Dance
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
1. The coronavirus outbreak has been traced to a wet market in Wuhan, China.
Proof? That story's been debunked.
I was not aware of this; do you have a link to prove this? In my opinion this is the most logical reason.
1) The Lancet review, which found that 1/3 of the first 40 cases (including patient 1) could not be connected to the market.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/01/wuhan-seafood-market-may-not-be-source-novel-virus-spreading-globally
2) The Researchgate paper posted by Botao Xiao (since taken down), 'The possible origins of 2019-nCoV coronavirus." Xiao's team investigated the hypothesis and reported: "According to municipal reports and the testimonies of 31 residents and 28 visitors, the bat was never a food source in the city, and no bat was traded in the market." (Which is where I suspect the "pangolin" story came from; but pangolins are an Endangered Species in China, not something sold in licensed markets.)
Xiao thought a more likely suspect was the Wuhan Center for Disease Control and Prevention, less than 1,000 feet from the market, which was collecting and experimenting on bats at the time; but he now says that, as it was no more than a theory, he withdrew the paper.
https://web.archive.org/web/20200214144447/https:/www.researchgate.net/publication/339070128_The_possible_origins_of_2019-nCoV_coronavirus
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
2. The virus did not escape from a lab experiment.
Proof?
Not proof, but this has the earmarks of a conspiracy theory.
The conspiracy theorists have certainly latched onto it, but of course they're not the only ones who've reacted to it to push a political agenda. (Notice the two stories I've run do *not* mention either Trump or Pompeo.)
http://gdspoliticalanimal.blogspot.com/2020/04/coronavirus-trail-leads-to-wuhan-labs-i.html
http://gdspoliticalanimal.blogspot.com/2020/04/coronavirus-trail-leads-to-wuhan-labs-ii.html
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
3. The coronavirus resembles viruses that have been found in bats and pangolins.
The DNA match closely enough that it's believed the coronavirus came from bats. With the pangolins, that isn't the case. Cats, dogs, rhinos, and whales haven't even been suggested.
Post by NancyGene
4. Humans either contracted the virus directly from an animal or through an intermediate host which had contracted it from (probably) a bat.
The genetic evidence indicates the former.
Post by NancyGene
5. Visit an Asian market in your community and let us know what you see.
Lots of Asians; lots of animals. No pangolins, of course.
Post by NancyGene
6. Look at pictures of wet markets in China and read the descriptions.
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html
Strawman. There's no evidence the WIV was making viruses, and plenty that they were investigating coronaviruses found naturally in bats.
Fascinating discussion.....
Oh, it's a fascinating subject, for sure. I've spent most of this week reading up on it, sometimes into the wee hours. Let me tell you how the "wet market" story began.
When the first cases started to come in, the Chinese government immediately launched an investigation. At the time, they didn't even know about the virus; they were calling the disease "an unknown pneumonia." Even when the virus was found, they had no evidence that it could be spread by human contact; which is what they continued to tell the world right up to mid-January.
So where did the virus come from? Turns out that 2 of the first 3 "unknown pneumonia" patients were connected with the wet market; one was a vendor, one a frequent customer; which led them to hypothesize that the virus was spread by eating infected food.
So they investigated further. The Chinese government is able to track every person's movements by using cellphone data; every time a person uses their cellphone, the government has a record of where he was at that time. (The U.S. cell companies have the same data, BTW, but the Supreme Court has ruled it's protected by the 4th Amendment; the government can access it only with warrant. Matching this data with the patient cases, they were able to connect two-thirds of the first 40 cases, and 49 of the first 100 cases, with the market.
So they visited the market, tested and found the virus there (where exactly wasn't specified), and closed it down. They moved everything out and decontaminated the site, which was probably a good idea security-wise, but which completely obliterated the alleged crime scene.
The whole market story relies on the hypothesis that one can get COVID-19 by eating food containing it. There's still no evidence of that; and we have more than enough evidence that the virus is actually spread through the air by breathing.
George Dunce, Citizen Scientist, gets it all wrong. The "whole market story" does not rely on the hypothesis of eating the bats or pangolins, but *handling* them and being in close proximity to them.
Oh; so when you were wrote, " We can see the competition for food resources in a country that has a population of almost a billion and a half people. They eat what they can find.. However, some things really are dangerous to eat."
- you weren't talking about the dangers of eating. Riiight.
Post by NancyGene
How many of the vendors had on masks and gloves in the original market configuration? These were tightly packed markets with a lot of customers. We would be interested to see the citation for Dunce's claim that eating the animals was the culprit. That was not in our poem at any rate.
Well, I'm glad you repudiating the story that it the virus was caused by Chinese people eating bats and pangolins; though less so that you've decided to pretend that racist hypothesis was "Dunce's claim."
Post by NancyGene
"they had no evidence that it could be spread by human contact;" How else would the virus spread from human to human, other than "human contact?"
Here's a cite. "And the fact that the Chinese government spent six weeks insisting that COVID-19 could not be spread from person to person means that its denials about Wuhan laboratories cannot be accepted without independent verification." https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/04/coronavirus-china-trail-leading-back-to-wuhan-labs/
If you want to challenge it, find a better one.
Post by NancyGene
The virus was on surfaces (animal surfaces?) and in respiratory droplets.
Bats and pangolin scales are ingredients in Chinese "traditional" medicine. The markets supplied these substances. Handling these products without gloves, sneezing, touching one's face, touching someone else, touching animals--should have been enough to spread something.
China is putting out a lot of propaganda, and the numbers are unreliable.
True. OTOH, all the Chicom propaganda is to the effect that the virus did not come from a lab in Wuhan.
Post by NancyGene
The first case in Wuhan "may" have been in late December.
Or November. Or, some Chicom propaganda organs have claimed, mid-October.
Post by NancyGene
The cell phone data, as we understand it, tracked possible virus carriers as they moved "out" of the city, not the ones who were at the market originally.
It can be used to trace anyone's movements, at any time. The government can know where you are at any time, if you use your cellphone there.
Post by NancyGene
If George has citations for his precise tracking claims, he is asked to provide them.
Sure; I'll just call up the Chinese Embassy and ask them, "Does your government use cellphone data to monitor suspects?" I'm sure they'll be quite open and transparent about it.
What's your point? You've agreed with me that the virus was traced to the market; why do you want to fight about how that was accomplished?
Besides, cell phone tracking in China is not that precise--and can be off by as much as 2 kilometers.
Are you trying to say now that the virus was not traced to the market? If not, what's your point with this diversion?
Post by NancyGene
We see no evidence that the virus was "found" at the wet market as George claims
Yet you just said: "The virus was on surfaces (animal surfaces?) and in respiratory droplets" at the market." Thank you for admitting you had no evidence for that claim.
Post by NancyGene
--only that there were cases in individuals who had been at or in close proximity to the market or those who had been at the market. If George has a citation for this, we would like to see it.
It was your claim first - back it up yourself.
Post by NancyGene
George Dunce needs to read scientific articles and not data mine what he finds on the Internet in the late hours. He is on the conspiracy theory train.
Calling the lab leak theory a "conspiracy theory" and "fake news" hasn't worked out very well for the Chinese government. What makes you think you'll do better?
Good morning, George.
Do you like Chinese food?
Yes, on occasion.
Do you know what Chinese food is called in China?
Hieronymous Corey
2020-04-27 09:39:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by George J. Dance
Post by Hieronymous Corey
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
Post by George J. Dance
Post by Z***@none.i2p
George J. Dance wrote on Tue, 21 April 2020 14:45
Post by George J. Dance
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
1. The coronavirus outbreak has been traced to a wet market in Wuhan, China.
Proof? That story's been debunked.
I was not aware of this; do you have a link to prove this? In my opinion this is the most logical reason.
1) The Lancet review, which found that 1/3 of the first 40 cases (including patient 1) could not be connected to the market.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/01/wuhan-seafood-market-may-not-be-source-novel-virus-spreading-globally
2) The Researchgate paper posted by Botao Xiao (since taken down), 'The possible origins of 2019-nCoV coronavirus." Xiao's team investigated the hypothesis and reported: "According to municipal reports and the testimonies of 31 residents and 28 visitors, the bat was never a food source in the city, and no bat was traded in the market." (Which is where I suspect the "pangolin" story came from; but pangolins are an Endangered Species in China, not something sold in licensed markets.)
Xiao thought a more likely suspect was the Wuhan Center for Disease Control and Prevention, less than 1,000 feet from the market, which was collecting and experimenting on bats at the time; but he now says that, as it was no more than a theory, he withdrew the paper.
https://web.archive.org/web/20200214144447/https:/www.researchgate.net/publication/339070128_The_possible_origins_of_2019-nCoV_coronavirus
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
2. The virus did not escape from a lab experiment.
Proof?
Not proof, but this has the earmarks of a conspiracy theory.
The conspiracy theorists have certainly latched onto it, but of course they're not the only ones who've reacted to it to push a political agenda. (Notice the two stories I've run do *not* mention either Trump or Pompeo.)
http://gdspoliticalanimal.blogspot.com/2020/04/coronavirus-trail-leads-to-wuhan-labs-i.html
http://gdspoliticalanimal.blogspot.com/2020/04/coronavirus-trail-leads-to-wuhan-labs-ii.html
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
3. The coronavirus resembles viruses that have been found in bats and pangolins.
The DNA match closely enough that it's believed the coronavirus came from bats. With the pangolins, that isn't the case. Cats, dogs, rhinos, and whales haven't even been suggested.
Post by NancyGene
4. Humans either contracted the virus directly from an animal or through an intermediate host which had contracted it from (probably) a bat.
The genetic evidence indicates the former.
Post by NancyGene
5. Visit an Asian market in your community and let us know what you see.
Lots of Asians; lots of animals. No pangolins, of course.
Post by NancyGene
6. Look at pictures of wet markets in China and read the descriptions.
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html
Strawman. There's no evidence the WIV was making viruses, and plenty that they were investigating coronaviruses found naturally in bats.
Fascinating discussion.....
Oh, it's a fascinating subject, for sure. I've spent most of this week reading up on it, sometimes into the wee hours. Let me tell you how the "wet market" story began.
When the first cases started to come in, the Chinese government immediately launched an investigation. At the time, they didn't even know about the virus; they were calling the disease "an unknown pneumonia." Even when the virus was found, they had no evidence that it could be spread by human contact; which is what they continued to tell the world right up to mid-January.
So where did the virus come from? Turns out that 2 of the first 3 "unknown pneumonia" patients were connected with the wet market; one was a vendor, one a frequent customer; which led them to hypothesize that the virus was spread by eating infected food.
So they investigated further. The Chinese government is able to track every person's movements by using cellphone data; every time a person uses their cellphone, the government has a record of where he was at that time. (The U.S. cell companies have the same data, BTW, but the Supreme Court has ruled it's protected by the 4th Amendment; the government can access it only with warrant. Matching this data with the patient cases, they were able to connect two-thirds of the first 40 cases, and 49 of the first 100 cases, with the market.
So they visited the market, tested and found the virus there (where exactly wasn't specified), and closed it down. They moved everything out and decontaminated the site, which was probably a good idea security-wise, but which completely obliterated the alleged crime scene.
The whole market story relies on the hypothesis that one can get COVID-19 by eating food containing it. There's still no evidence of that; and we have more than enough evidence that the virus is actually spread through the air by breathing.
George Dunce, Citizen Scientist, gets it all wrong. The "whole market story" does not rely on the hypothesis of eating the bats or pangolins, but *handling* them and being in close proximity to them.
Oh; so when you were wrote, " We can see the competition for food resources in a country that has a population of almost a billion and a half people. They eat what they can find.. However, some things really are dangerous to eat."
- you weren't talking about the dangers of eating. Riiight.
Post by NancyGene
How many of the vendors had on masks and gloves in the original market configuration? These were tightly packed markets with a lot of customers. We would be interested to see the citation for Dunce's claim that eating the animals was the culprit. That was not in our poem at any rate.
Well, I'm glad you repudiating the story that it the virus was caused by Chinese people eating bats and pangolins; though less so that you've decided to pretend that racist hypothesis was "Dunce's claim."
Post by NancyGene
"they had no evidence that it could be spread by human contact;" How else would the virus spread from human to human, other than "human contact?"
Here's a cite. "And the fact that the Chinese government spent six weeks insisting that COVID-19 could not be spread from person to person means that its denials about Wuhan laboratories cannot be accepted without independent verification." https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/04/coronavirus-china-trail-leading-back-to-wuhan-labs/
If you want to challenge it, find a better one.
Post by NancyGene
The virus was on surfaces (animal surfaces?) and in respiratory droplets.
Bats and pangolin scales are ingredients in Chinese "traditional" medicine. The markets supplied these substances. Handling these products without gloves, sneezing, touching one's face, touching someone else, touching animals--should have been enough to spread something.
China is putting out a lot of propaganda, and the numbers are unreliable.
True. OTOH, all the Chicom propaganda is to the effect that the virus did not come from a lab in Wuhan.
Post by NancyGene
The first case in Wuhan "may" have been in late December.
Or November. Or, some Chicom propaganda organs have claimed, mid-October.
Post by NancyGene
The cell phone data, as we understand it, tracked possible virus carriers as they moved "out" of the city, not the ones who were at the market originally.
It can be used to trace anyone's movements, at any time. The government can know where you are at any time, if you use your cellphone there.
Post by NancyGene
If George has citations for his precise tracking claims, he is asked to provide them.
Sure; I'll just call up the Chinese Embassy and ask them, "Does your government use cellphone data to monitor suspects?" I'm sure they'll be quite open and transparent about it.
What's your point? You've agreed with me that the virus was traced to the market; why do you want to fight about how that was accomplished?
Besides, cell phone tracking in China is not that precise--and can be off by as much as 2 kilometers.
Are you trying to say now that the virus was not traced to the market? If not, what's your point with this diversion?
Post by NancyGene
We see no evidence that the virus was "found" at the wet market as George claims
Yet you just said: "The virus was on surfaces (animal surfaces?) and in respiratory droplets" at the market." Thank you for admitting you had no evidence for that claim.
Post by NancyGene
--only that there were cases in individuals who had been at or in close proximity to the market or those who had been at the market. If George has a citation for this, we would like to see it.
It was your claim first - back it up yourself.
Post by NancyGene
George Dunce needs to read scientific articles and not data mine what he finds on the Internet in the late hours. He is on the conspiracy theory train.
Calling the lab leak theory a "conspiracy theory" and "fake news" hasn't worked out very well for the Chinese government. What makes you think you'll do better?
Good morning, George.
Do you like Chinese food?
Yes, on occasion.
Do you know what Chinese food is called in China?
That depends on who’s calling out for food.
I called out for bbq the other day. It wasn’t
very good, but the Chinese place was closed.
Hieronymous Corey
2020-04-27 09:57:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Hieronymous Corey
Post by George J. Dance
Post by Hieronymous Corey
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
Post by George J. Dance
Post by Z***@none.i2p
George J. Dance wrote on Tue, 21 April 2020 14:45
Post by George J. Dance
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
1. The coronavirus outbreak has been traced to a wet market in Wuhan, China.
Proof? That story's been debunked.
I was not aware of this; do you have a link to prove this? In my opinion this is the most logical reason.
1) The Lancet review, which found that 1/3 of the first 40 cases (including patient 1) could not be connected to the market.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/01/wuhan-seafood-market-may-not-be-source-novel-virus-spreading-globally
2) The Researchgate paper posted by Botao Xiao (since taken down), 'The possible origins of 2019-nCoV coronavirus." Xiao's team investigated the hypothesis and reported: "According to municipal reports and the testimonies of 31 residents and 28 visitors, the bat was never a food source in the city, and no bat was traded in the market." (Which is where I suspect the "pangolin" story came from; but pangolins are an Endangered Species in China, not something sold in licensed markets.)
Xiao thought a more likely suspect was the Wuhan Center for Disease Control and Prevention, less than 1,000 feet from the market, which was collecting and experimenting on bats at the time; but he now says that, as it was no more than a theory, he withdrew the paper.
https://web.archive.org/web/20200214144447/https:/www.researchgate.net/publication/339070128_The_possible_origins_of_2019-nCoV_coronavirus
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
2. The virus did not escape from a lab experiment.
Proof?
Not proof, but this has the earmarks of a conspiracy theory.
The conspiracy theorists have certainly latched onto it, but of course they're not the only ones who've reacted to it to push a political agenda. (Notice the two stories I've run do *not* mention either Trump or Pompeo.)
http://gdspoliticalanimal.blogspot.com/2020/04/coronavirus-trail-leads-to-wuhan-labs-i.html
http://gdspoliticalanimal.blogspot.com/2020/04/coronavirus-trail-leads-to-wuhan-labs-ii.html
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
3. The coronavirus resembles viruses that have been found in bats and pangolins.
The DNA match closely enough that it's believed the coronavirus came from bats. With the pangolins, that isn't the case. Cats, dogs, rhinos, and whales haven't even been suggested.
Post by NancyGene
4. Humans either contracted the virus directly from an animal or through an intermediate host which had contracted it from (probably) a bat.
The genetic evidence indicates the former.
Post by NancyGene
5. Visit an Asian market in your community and let us know what you see.
Lots of Asians; lots of animals. No pangolins, of course.
Post by NancyGene
6. Look at pictures of wet markets in China and read the descriptions.
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html
Strawman. There's no evidence the WIV was making viruses, and plenty that they were investigating coronaviruses found naturally in bats.
Fascinating discussion.....
Oh, it's a fascinating subject, for sure. I've spent most of this week reading up on it, sometimes into the wee hours. Let me tell you how the "wet market" story began.
When the first cases started to come in, the Chinese government immediately launched an investigation. At the time, they didn't even know about the virus; they were calling the disease "an unknown pneumonia." Even when the virus was found, they had no evidence that it could be spread by human contact; which is what they continued to tell the world right up to mid-January.
So where did the virus come from? Turns out that 2 of the first 3 "unknown pneumonia" patients were connected with the wet market; one was a vendor, one a frequent customer; which led them to hypothesize that the virus was spread by eating infected food.
So they investigated further. The Chinese government is able to track every person's movements by using cellphone data; every time a person uses their cellphone, the government has a record of where he was at that time. (The U.S. cell companies have the same data, BTW, but the Supreme Court has ruled it's protected by the 4th Amendment; the government can access it only with warrant. Matching this data with the patient cases, they were able to connect two-thirds of the first 40 cases, and 49 of the first 100 cases, with the market.
So they visited the market, tested and found the virus there (where exactly wasn't specified), and closed it down. They moved everything out and decontaminated the site, which was probably a good idea security-wise, but which completely obliterated the alleged crime scene.
The whole market story relies on the hypothesis that one can get COVID-19 by eating food containing it. There's still no evidence of that; and we have more than enough evidence that the virus is actually spread through the air by breathing.
George Dunce, Citizen Scientist, gets it all wrong. The "whole market story" does not rely on the hypothesis of eating the bats or pangolins, but *handling* them and being in close proximity to them.
Oh; so when you were wrote, " We can see the competition for food resources in a country that has a population of almost a billion and a half people. They eat what they can find.. However, some things really are dangerous to eat."
- you weren't talking about the dangers of eating. Riiight.
Post by NancyGene
How many of the vendors had on masks and gloves in the original market configuration? These were tightly packed markets with a lot of customers. We would be interested to see the citation for Dunce's claim that eating the animals was the culprit. That was not in our poem at any rate.
Well, I'm glad you repudiating the story that it the virus was caused by Chinese people eating bats and pangolins; though less so that you've decided to pretend that racist hypothesis was "Dunce's claim."
Post by NancyGene
"they had no evidence that it could be spread by human contact;" How else would the virus spread from human to human, other than "human contact?"
Here's a cite. "And the fact that the Chinese government spent six weeks insisting that COVID-19 could not be spread from person to person means that its denials about Wuhan laboratories cannot be accepted without independent verification." https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/04/coronavirus-china-trail-leading-back-to-wuhan-labs/
If you want to challenge it, find a better one.
Post by NancyGene
The virus was on surfaces (animal surfaces?) and in respiratory droplets.
Bats and pangolin scales are ingredients in Chinese "traditional" medicine. The markets supplied these substances. Handling these products without gloves, sneezing, touching one's face, touching someone else, touching animals--should have been enough to spread something.
China is putting out a lot of propaganda, and the numbers are unreliable.
True. OTOH, all the Chicom propaganda is to the effect that the virus did not come from a lab in Wuhan.
Post by NancyGene
The first case in Wuhan "may" have been in late December.
Or November. Or, some Chicom propaganda organs have claimed, mid-October.
Post by NancyGene
The cell phone data, as we understand it, tracked possible virus carriers as they moved "out" of the city, not the ones who were at the market originally.
It can be used to trace anyone's movements, at any time. The government can know where you are at any time, if you use your cellphone there.
Post by NancyGene
If George has citations for his precise tracking claims, he is asked to provide them.
Sure; I'll just call up the Chinese Embassy and ask them, "Does your government use cellphone data to monitor suspects?" I'm sure they'll be quite open and transparent about it.
What's your point? You've agreed with me that the virus was traced to the market; why do you want to fight about how that was accomplished?
Besides, cell phone tracking in China is not that precise--and can be off by as much as 2 kilometers.
Are you trying to say now that the virus was not traced to the market? If not, what's your point with this diversion?
Post by NancyGene
We see no evidence that the virus was "found" at the wet market as George claims
Yet you just said: "The virus was on surfaces (animal surfaces?) and in respiratory droplets" at the market." Thank you for admitting you had no evidence for that claim.
Post by NancyGene
--only that there were cases in individuals who had been at or in close proximity to the market or those who had been at the market. If George has a citation for this, we would like to see it.
It was your claim first - back it up yourself.
Post by NancyGene
George Dunce needs to read scientific articles and not data mine what he finds on the Internet in the late hours. He is on the conspiracy theory train.
Calling the lab leak theory a "conspiracy theory" and "fake news" hasn't worked out very well for the Chinese government. What makes you think you'll do better?
Good morning, George.
Do you like Chinese food?
Yes, on occasion.
Do you know what Chinese food is called in China?
That depends on who’s calling out for food.
I called out for bbq the other day. It wasn’t
very good, but the Chinese place was closed.
Okay, so jokes aside, do you think it’s racist to call COVID-19 the “Chinese Virus”?
George J. Dance
2020-04-27 10:16:42 UTC
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Post by Hieronymous Corey
Post by Hieronymous Corey
Post by George J. Dance
Post by Hieronymous Corey
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
Post by George J. Dance
Post by Z***@none.i2p
George J. Dance wrote on Tue, 21 April 2020 14:45
Post by George J. Dance
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
1. The coronavirus outbreak has been traced to a wet market in Wuhan, China.
Proof? That story's been debunked.
I was not aware of this; do you have a link to prove this? In my opinion this is the most logical reason.
1) The Lancet review, which found that 1/3 of the first 40 cases (including patient 1) could not be connected to the market.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/01/wuhan-seafood-market-may-not-be-source-novel-virus-spreading-globally
2) The Researchgate paper posted by Botao Xiao (since taken down), 'The possible origins of 2019-nCoV coronavirus." Xiao's team investigated the hypothesis and reported: "According to municipal reports and the testimonies of 31 residents and 28 visitors, the bat was never a food source in the city, and no bat was traded in the market." (Which is where I suspect the "pangolin" story came from; but pangolins are an Endangered Species in China, not something sold in licensed markets.)
Xiao thought a more likely suspect was the Wuhan Center for Disease Control and Prevention, less than 1,000 feet from the market, which was collecting and experimenting on bats at the time; but he now says that, as it was no more than a theory, he withdrew the paper.
https://web.archive.org/web/20200214144447/https:/www.researchgate.net/publication/339070128_The_possible_origins_of_2019-nCoV_coronavirus
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
2. The virus did not escape from a lab experiment.
Proof?
Not proof, but this has the earmarks of a conspiracy theory.
The conspiracy theorists have certainly latched onto it, but of course they're not the only ones who've reacted to it to push a political agenda. (Notice the two stories I've run do *not* mention either Trump or Pompeo.)
http://gdspoliticalanimal.blogspot.com/2020/04/coronavirus-trail-leads-to-wuhan-labs-i.html
http://gdspoliticalanimal.blogspot.com/2020/04/coronavirus-trail-leads-to-wuhan-labs-ii.html
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
3. The coronavirus resembles viruses that have been found in bats and pangolins.
The DNA match closely enough that it's believed the coronavirus came from bats. With the pangolins, that isn't the case. Cats, dogs, rhinos, and whales haven't even been suggested.
Post by NancyGene
4. Humans either contracted the virus directly from an animal or through an intermediate host which had contracted it from (probably) a bat.
The genetic evidence indicates the former.
Post by NancyGene
5. Visit an Asian market in your community and let us know what you see.
Lots of Asians; lots of animals. No pangolins, of course.
Post by NancyGene
6. Look at pictures of wet markets in China and read the descriptions.
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html
Strawman. There's no evidence the WIV was making viruses, and plenty that they were investigating coronaviruses found naturally in bats.
Fascinating discussion.....
Oh, it's a fascinating subject, for sure. I've spent most of this week reading up on it, sometimes into the wee hours. Let me tell you how the "wet market" story began.
When the first cases started to come in, the Chinese government immediately launched an investigation. At the time, they didn't even know about the virus; they were calling the disease "an unknown pneumonia." Even when the virus was found, they had no evidence that it could be spread by human contact; which is what they continued to tell the world right up to mid-January.
So where did the virus come from? Turns out that 2 of the first 3 "unknown pneumonia" patients were connected with the wet market; one was a vendor, one a frequent customer; which led them to hypothesize that the virus was spread by eating infected food.
So they investigated further. The Chinese government is able to track every person's movements by using cellphone data; every time a person uses their cellphone, the government has a record of where he was at that time. (The U.S. cell companies have the same data, BTW, but the Supreme Court has ruled it's protected by the 4th Amendment; the government can access it only with warrant. Matching this data with the patient cases, they were able to connect two-thirds of the first 40 cases, and 49 of the first 100 cases, with the market.
So they visited the market, tested and found the virus there (where exactly wasn't specified), and closed it down. They moved everything out and decontaminated the site, which was probably a good idea security-wise, but which completely obliterated the alleged crime scene.
The whole market story relies on the hypothesis that one can get COVID-19 by eating food containing it. There's still no evidence of that; and we have more than enough evidence that the virus is actually spread through the air by breathing.
George Dunce, Citizen Scientist, gets it all wrong. The "whole market story" does not rely on the hypothesis of eating the bats or pangolins, but *handling* them and being in close proximity to them.
Oh; so when you were wrote, " We can see the competition for food resources in a country that has a population of almost a billion and a half people. They eat what they can find.. However, some things really are dangerous to eat."
- you weren't talking about the dangers of eating. Riiight.
Post by NancyGene
How many of the vendors had on masks and gloves in the original market configuration? These were tightly packed markets with a lot of customers. We would be interested to see the citation for Dunce's claim that eating the animals was the culprit. That was not in our poem at any rate.
Well, I'm glad you repudiating the story that it the virus was caused by Chinese people eating bats and pangolins; though less so that you've decided to pretend that racist hypothesis was "Dunce's claim."
Post by NancyGene
"they had no evidence that it could be spread by human contact;" How else would the virus spread from human to human, other than "human contact?"
Here's a cite. "And the fact that the Chinese government spent six weeks insisting that COVID-19 could not be spread from person to person means that its denials about Wuhan laboratories cannot be accepted without independent verification." https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/04/coronavirus-china-trail-leading-back-to-wuhan-labs/
If you want to challenge it, find a better one.
Post by NancyGene
The virus was on surfaces (animal surfaces?) and in respiratory droplets.
Bats and pangolin scales are ingredients in Chinese "traditional" medicine. The markets supplied these substances. Handling these products without gloves, sneezing, touching one's face, touching someone else, touching animals--should have been enough to spread something.
China is putting out a lot of propaganda, and the numbers are unreliable.
True. OTOH, all the Chicom propaganda is to the effect that the virus did not come from a lab in Wuhan.
Post by NancyGene
The first case in Wuhan "may" have been in late December.
Or November. Or, some Chicom propaganda organs have claimed, mid-October.
Post by NancyGene
The cell phone data, as we understand it, tracked possible virus carriers as they moved "out" of the city, not the ones who were at the market originally.
It can be used to trace anyone's movements, at any time. The government can know where you are at any time, if you use your cellphone there.
Post by NancyGene
If George has citations for his precise tracking claims, he is asked to provide them.
Sure; I'll just call up the Chinese Embassy and ask them, "Does your government use cellphone data to monitor suspects?" I'm sure they'll be quite open and transparent about it.
What's your point? You've agreed with me that the virus was traced to the market; why do you want to fight about how that was accomplished?
Besides, cell phone tracking in China is not that precise--and can be off by as much as 2 kilometers.
Are you trying to say now that the virus was not traced to the market? If not, what's your point with this diversion?
Post by NancyGene
We see no evidence that the virus was "found" at the wet market as George claims
Yet you just said: "The virus was on surfaces (animal surfaces?) and in respiratory droplets" at the market." Thank you for admitting you had no evidence for that claim.
Post by NancyGene
--only that there were cases in individuals who had been at or in close proximity to the market or those who had been at the market. If George has a citation for this, we would like to see it.
It was your claim first - back it up yourself.
Post by NancyGene
George Dunce needs to read scientific articles and not data mine what he finds on the Internet in the late hours. He is on the conspiracy theory train.
Calling the lab leak theory a "conspiracy theory" and "fake news" hasn't worked out very well for the Chinese government. What makes you think you'll do better?
Good morning, George.
Do you like Chinese food?
Yes, on occasion.
Do you know what Chinese food is called in China?
That depends on who’s calling out for food.
I called out for bbq the other day. It wasn’t
very good, but the Chinese place was closed.
Okay, so jokes aside, do you think it’s racist to call COVID-19 the “Chinese Virus”?
Yes, it sounds like blaming the virus on "the Chinese." But it's no different from the "Spanish flu," so maybe I'm just being overly sensitive.

I like the Epoch Times's name, "CCP virus", but I don't think it'll catch on either.
k***@gmail.com
2020-04-21 14:01:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
1. The coronavirus outbreak has been traced to a wet market in Wuhan, China.
Proof? That story's been debunked.
I was not aware of this, do you have proof?
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
2. The virus did not escape from a lab experiment.
Proof?
This story strongly resembles a conspiracy theory.

Three very different news sources:

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/04/coronavirus-dead-world-exceeds-170000-live-updates-200421005048334.html

https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/21/coronavirus-likely-to-have-come-from-animals-not-a-lab-who-says.html
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
3. The coronavirus resembles viruses that have been found in bats and pangolins.
The DNA match closely enough that it's believed the coronavirus came from bats. With the pangolins, that isn't the case. Cats, dogs, rhinos, and whales haven't even been suggested.
Post by NancyGene
4. Humans either contracted the virus directly from an animal or through an intermediate host which had contracted it from (probably) a bat.
The genetic evidence indicates the former.
Post by NancyGene
5. Visit an Asian market in your community and let us know what you see.
Lots of Asians; lots of animals. No pangolins, of course.
I was just in one yesterday. Plenty of pickled and frozen seafood westerner don't usually eat. Pig and cow parts westerner don't usually eat. All very COVID 19 cautious and sanitary. Around here, Amish farmers sell meat in open markets, not Asians.
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
6. Look at pictures of wet markets in China and read the descriptions.
https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html
Strawman. There's no evidence the WIV was making viruses; and plenty that they were investigating coronaviruses found naturally in bats.
m***@yahoo.com
2020-04-22 17:01:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by NancyGene
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
1. The coronavirus outbreak has been traced to a wet market in Wuhan, China.
Prove it.
Post by NancyGene
2. The virus did not escape from a lab experiment.
Your stupid poetry reads like an escaped lab experiment.
Post by NancyGene
3. The coronavirus resembles viruses that have been found in bats and pangolins.
Prove it.
Post by NancyGene
4. Humans either contracted the virus directly from an animal or through an intermediate host which had contracted it from (probably) a bat.
Prove it.
Post by NancyGene
5. Visit an Asian market in your community and let us know what you see.
You racist whore.
Post by NancyGene
6. Look at pictures of wet markets in China and read the descriptions.
Stop being racist, you racist.
Z***@none.i2p
2020-04-25 17:34:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
madeforzyngagames wrote on Wed, 22 April 2020 17:01
Post by m***@yahoo.com
Post by NancyGene
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we'll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
1. The coronavirus outbreak has been traced to a wet market in Wuhan, China.
Prove it.
Post by NancyGene
2. The virus did not escape from a lab experiment.
Your stupid poetry reads like an escaped lab experiment.
Post by NancyGene
3. The coronavirus resembles viruses that have been found in bats and pangolins.
Prove it.
Post by NancyGene
4. Humans either contracted the virus directly from an animal or through an intermediate host which had contracted it from (probably) a bat.
Prove it.
Post by NancyGene
5. Visit an Asian market in your community and let us know what you see.
You racist whore.
Post by NancyGene
6. Look at pictures of wet markets in China and read the descriptions.
Stop being racist, you racist.
For once we agree, Dink.....
Z***@none.i2p
2020-03-27 04:38:21 UTC
Reply
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Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by Antti
Post by Me
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Michael Pendragon
Post by k***@gmail.com
Post by Michael Pendragon
When my Grandmother was growing up in Philadelphia in the 1910s, she and her friends used to yell "Chinaman, Chinaman, eat dead rats!" whenever they'd pass a Chinese restaurant or laundry.
When my Grandfather was growing up in Brooklyn, he would fill a sock with flour and hit the Jewish kids in black clothing on the back. Both behaviors are wrong.
Of course they are.
My Grandmother was a child at the time and she and her friends were scared to death of the Chinese. This was during the time when everyone talked about the "Yellow Peril," and such.
My Grandfather was a bully; the Jewish kids were likely scared of him. He graduated from 8th grade 2nd in his class, yet the teacher sent him to 1st grade for a day because he was such a pest. He could still recite the "Cremation of Sam McGee" when I was a child.
My maternal grandparents were very kind and generous. They were both very forward thinkers, hardworking and god fearing. I'm grateful for being blessed with such amazing role models in my early years.
I guess it's what we choose to take from our youth that makes us who we become.
It's good to have role models.
My mother's parents were very loving and fiercely loyal to us. My father's mother was the closest thing I has to a role model, she thought for herself despite being kind and loving. My father did encouraged me to study and pursue a scientific career.
Sounds like you were lucky also.
Truthfully. Dumb luck or lack of it guides us all.
Our parents give us advice. But in the end of the day anything can happen
at any moment.
Our cells are little nuclear bombs that can go off at any time (cancer etc).
Every time we drive a car, anything could happen.
Our families. If our parents had died when we were little.. If they were
afflicted in some way that made them unable to give us advice.
If we have genes that lean towards addiction, if we lifted that bottle to our lips.
Every day we go about our business. If something happened to us. A truck
veered off course. Someone at the factory made ice cream with dirty hands which gave us a food poisoning that sent us to hospital, where we caught MRSA and died.
If we came to the path of a madman. A thief in the night.
If a meteorite landed on us.
If a plane we were on crashed.
If a stray dog went nuts on us.
If a song pissed us off and we were loudly talking about it in a public transit and a druggie in a psychosis was offended.
If a electric appliance caught fire in the middle of the night as we were sleeping.
If we fell down doing whatever and struck our head.
If a viper, cobra or some poisonous snake popped out of a hole while we were having a picnic and bit us.
Or a hormone filled bull moose decided to decimate us with his antlers.
Or if a mosquito bit us and gave us the west nile disease. Or tick that gave us lyme disease, which went bad.
If we went to a gun range and some mad woman decided to blow our brains out.
(happened here some 10 years back)
If there was particularly large hail and we found ourselves outside. With no
cover.
If we found ourselves from a room rapidly filling with carbon monoxide, lets say we went to sauna and the chimney was closed (happens in Finland).
If we were walking on a glacier and the ice below us suddenly gave up.
If someone blew some rock without a rubber cover and one of the rocks from the explosion decided to fly straight to our head.
If a jet engine decided to fall on our heads after breaking free from a jet plane.
If we drank from some cup we thought was fancy and it was actually covered with some poisonous material that slowly drove us crazy and made us commit a suicide.
If a police that was chasing a violent criminal decided that we were him and decided to shoot us in the head.
If the patch of coffee we were drinking had somehow been laced with arsenic.
If we were following some instruction on the internet for building X and it did not go very well and the X turned out to be a death trap.
If the food we ate was not nutritious and we slowly killed ourselves due to malnutrition.
If the person we wrote to on the internet was a serial killer and chose us as his random victim.
If the doctor that was treating us, was tired of it all and decided to give us a pill that killed us.
If our clothes / shoes etc were laced with something poisonous accidentally and gave us a deadly rash.
If the medicine we ingested was actually made wrong and it killed us.
If the fast food we ate was made by some fool with corona virus and it killed us.
Do I have to go on?
Dumb luck keeps us alive.
Dumb luck makes us possibly smart and rich.
We do not control poop.
Writing the above made me realize.
What is the point?
All these personal stories of vindication we tell for ourselves. I guess it makes us feel good when we tell a story in which we are heroes that overcame insurmountable odds. But really?
What is the part of free will in a world that can kill us all day and all night long. How do we rise above our circumstances when it can be the very mind we have that is afflicted? How many "special" billionaires there are.
I do not know a single one.
Smart people have genes that make them able to retain information and cognitive functions good enough to process that information. "Stupid" people do not. The only hope for "stupid" people is luck. For smart people, they can use their faculties.
My previous epilepsy medication actually began to deteriorate my memory. One hell of a feeling. To realize it all depends on just some chemical balance in
my neurons. Throw that a little off and I am a drooling idiot.
This one gives me a better memory, but now my emotions are muted! Oh vey!
Yes! The very faculties are affected by dumb luck of upbringing, genes and
every day life. Why be proud?
If you find yourself from Ivy league college and you do well. Good. If you find yourself from a roadside picking up trash. Good.
Were you 100 % in control getting there? If you tell yourself yes. Well. It is not reality.
Free will. Is there free will?
What does free will amount up to in a world where we are like flawed ships sailing on the sea of life.
Should we not care for others because they made bad choices or were unlucky?
What is a choice? If one person lifts a bottle to his lips and is not affected by it, ignores it and goes to a life of study was that person stronger than the one who lifts a bottle to his / her lips and goes on a life long binge?
What do we have to consider there? That the two were the same? Do we have to consider their brain structure, their affinity to addiction? Their very genes?
Or can we just say that a is good and b is bad?
Of course it is easier to do the latter.
Occams razor is a theory that when you have to make least assumptions about a question the answer is right. The more you have to speculate, the less likely the answer is right.
But what about complicated problems? Like right here. The life of a person A and person B.
Can you compare?
Trump vs homeless person?
What is the thing that made Trump president of the united states / made the homeless person homeless. Did trump excel because of his free will / did the homeless person fail in some unforgivable fashion to become homeless?
Could Trump not have had any of the things I said far above happen to him and
die? Could the homeless person not have had some random lucky event that I did
not describe above that would have led that person to find his true gift and
excel? Maybe that person could have been a world class bicyclist that wont the
Tour De France ca 1995. But that one random event did not happen which would have led to it.
Why is the world such?
What do the answers tell about us?
I think that is the big one. What do the answers tell about us. If we just casually say, A is better than B. Then, it tells something about our callousness, about not wanting to spend our time thinking about it and
that leads to us building a world thus.
If how ever we think about it. Go to the voting box having thought about it
and vote someone who also thought about it. We build a different world.
If we recognize that we are sailing on this sea of life in a raft made of
sugar that is melting rapidly and we see other people around us doing the
same. From the homeless person to the president of the united states and
we do not do rash judgments. Then.
We care. We love one another. If we care and love one another. Then we
do not count out the guy who has to resort to dumpster diving. Or the
sociopath who became the president. We look at all of us with our faults
as a doctor would. Flawed things with different amounts of luck.
We look at reality. Instead of a story that the person told himself
or a story we told to ourselves to explain the world in simplified terms.
The thing is. We have no hope of understanding the world as it is. It is just
We are all human beings. With the same value. Divided, yet we share the experience of living.
Antti
You're talking about
Shut up, Voodoo Boy.....
George J. Dance
2020-04-19 17:40:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
Is this meant to be a poem about the Wuhan Seafood Market?
ME
2020-04-19 17:41:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
Is this meant to be a poem about the Wuhan Seafood Market?
Duuuhhhhh.......
Edward Rochester Esq.
2020-04-19 17:51:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by ME
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
Is this meant to be a poem about the Wuhan Seafood Market?
Duuuhhhhh.......
Second...that Dance sure is smart
George J. Dance
2020-04-19 18:02:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Edward Rochester Esq.
Post by ME
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
Is this meant to be a poem about the Wuhan Seafood Market?
Duuuhhhhh.......
Second...that Dance sure is smart
Well, let's hear Mr. Rochester explain it to us smart folk:
What are bats, pangolins, cats, and tigers doing in a seafood market?
Edward Rochester Esq.
2020-04-19 18:03:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by George J. Dance
Post by Edward Rochester Esq.
Post by ME
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
Is this meant to be a poem about the Wuhan Seafood Market?
Duuuhhhhh.......
Second...that Dance sure is smart
What are bats, pangolins, cats, and tigers doing in a seafood market?
Hiding out, you silly fuck.
George J. Dance
2020-04-19 18:05:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Edward Rochester Esq.
Post by George J. Dance
Post by Edward Rochester Esq.
Post by ME
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
Is this meant to be a poem about the Wuhan Seafood Market?
Duuuhhhhh.......
Second...that Dance sure is smart
What are bats, pangolins, cats, and tigers doing in a seafood market?
Hiding out, you silly fuck.
"Hiding out" from what, dumbass?
Edward Rochester Esq.
2020-04-19 18:07:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by George J. Dance
Post by Edward Rochester Esq.
Post by George J. Dance
Post by Edward Rochester Esq.
Post by ME
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
Is this meant to be a poem about the Wuhan Seafood Market?
Duuuhhhhh.......
Second...that Dance sure is smart
What are bats, pangolins, cats, and tigers doing in a seafood market?
Hiding out, you silly fuck.
"Hiding out" from what, dumbass?
Will Dockery silly fuck.
George J. Dance
2020-04-19 18:30:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Edward Rochester Esq.
Post by George J. Dance
Post by Edward Rochester Esq.
Post by George J. Dance
Post by Edward Rochester Esq.
Post by ME
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
Is this meant to be a poem about the Wuhan Seafood Market?
Duuuhhhhh.......
Second...that Dance sure is smart
What are bats, pangolins, cats, and tigers doing in a seafood market?
Hiding out, you silly fuck.
"Hiding out" from what, dumbass?
Will Dockery silly fuck.
You are acting even more strangely than usual today, dumbass.

What meds have you been on since your release from the hospital?
Edward Rochester Esq.
2020-04-19 18:35:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by George J. Dance
Post by Edward Rochester Esq.
Post by George J. Dance
Post by Edward Rochester Esq.
Post by George J. Dance
Post by Edward Rochester Esq.
Post by ME
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
Is this meant to be a poem about the Wuhan Seafood Market?
Duuuhhhhh.......
Second...that Dance sure is smart
What are bats, pangolins, cats, and tigers doing in a seafood market?
Hiding out, you silly fuck.
"Hiding out" from what, dumbass?
Will Dockery silly fuck.
You are acting even more strangely than usual today, dumbass.
What meds have you been on since your release from the hospital?
Deflection noted. What hospital stay? My treatment at home for pneumonia was with antibiotics, rest, plenty of water...three weeks worth.


You eat yet?
ME
2020-04-19 18:38:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by George J. Dance
Post by Edward Rochester Esq.
Post by George J. Dance
Post by Edward Rochester Esq.
Post by George J. Dance
Post by Edward Rochester Esq.
Post by ME
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
Is this meant to be a poem about the Wuhan Seafood Market?
Duuuhhhhh.......
Second...that Dance sure is smart
What are bats, pangolins, cats, and tigers doing in a seafood market?
Hiding out, you silly fuck.
"Hiding out" from what, dumbass?
Will Dockery silly fuck.
You are acting even more strangely than usual today, dumbass.
What meds have you been on since your release from the hospital?
What the fuck are you talking about dance?

You’re asinine questions were answered.
Now, what are you trying to start?

Will posted another stupid, juvenile poem.
Let him defend it, ok?
Z***@none.i2p
2020-04-20 16:08:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Edward Rochester Esq. wrote on Sun, 19 April 2020 18:07
Post by Edward Rochester Esq.
Post by George J. Dance
Post by Edward Rochester Esq.
Post by George J. Dance
Post by Edward Rochester Esq.
Post by ME
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we'll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
Is this meant to be a poem about the Wuhan Seafood Market?
Duuuhhhhh.......
Second...that Dance sure is smart
What are bats, pangolins, cats, and tigers doing in a seafood market?
Hiding out, you silly fuck.
"Hiding out" from what, dumbass?
Will Dockery silly fuck.
Your obsession is noted, Rochester.....
George J. Dance
2020-04-22 16:41:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Z***@none.i2p
Edward Rochester Esq. wrote on Sun, 19 April 2020 18:07
Post by Edward Rochester Esq.
Post by George J. Dance
Post by Edward Rochester Esq.
Post by George J. Dance
Post by Edward Rochester Esq.
Post by ME
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we'll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
Is this meant to be a poem about the Wuhan Seafood Market?
Duuuhhhhh.......
Second...that Dance sure is smart
What are bats, pangolins, cats, and tigers doing in a seafood market?
Hiding out, you silly fuck.
"Hiding out" from what, dumbass?
Will Dockery silly fuck.
Your obsession is noted, Rochester.....
Well, let's face it; writing about "Will Dockery" is the best way to deflect attention from a topic - so why shouldn't "Edward Rochester" use it to deflect attention from NG's racist message?
NancyGene
2020-04-19 18:08:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by George J. Dance
Post by Edward Rochester Esq.
Post by George J. Dance
Post by Edward Rochester Esq.
Post by ME
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
Is this meant to be a poem about the Wuhan Seafood Market?
Duuuhhhhh.......
Second...that Dance sure is smart
What are bats, pangolins, cats, and tigers doing in a seafood market?
Hiding out, you silly fuck.
"Hiding out" from what, dumbass?
Why are you asking Edward? We wrote the poem--ask us!
George J. Dance
2020-04-19 18:11:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by NancyGene
Post by George J. Dance
Post by Edward Rochester Esq.
Post by George J. Dance
Post by Edward Rochester Esq.
Post by ME
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
Is this meant to be a poem about the Wuhan Seafood Market?
Duuuhhhhh.......
Second...that Dance sure is smart
What are bats, pangolins, cats, and tigers doing in a seafood market?
Hiding out, you silly fuck.
"Hiding out" from what, dumbass?
Why are you asking Edward? We wrote the poem--ask us!
Up to now (unlike your Edward and ME), you weren't pretending to be able to explain the problem with your poem. But, sure, if you want, you go right ahead.
ME
2020-04-19 18:14:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
Post by George J. Dance
Post by Edward Rochester Esq.
Post by George J. Dance
Post by Edward Rochester Esq.
Post by ME
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
Is this meant to be a poem about the Wuhan Seafood Market?
Duuuhhhhh.......
Second...that Dance sure is smart
What are bats, pangolins, cats, and tigers doing in a seafood market?
Hiding out, you silly fuck.
"Hiding out" from what, dumbass?
Why are you asking Edward? We wrote the poem--ask us!
Up to now (unlike your Edward and ME), you weren't pretending to be able to explain the problem with your poem. But, sure, if you want, you go right ahead.
There’s no problem with NG’s poem, dance.
What do you think is the problem with it?
George J. Dance
2020-04-22 16:35:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by ME
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
Post by George J. Dance
Post by Edward Rochester Esq.
Post by George J. Dance
Post by Edward Rochester Esq.
Post by ME
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
Is this meant to be a poem about the Wuhan Seafood Market?
Duuuhhhhh.......
Second...that Dance sure is smart
What are bats, pangolins, cats, and tigers doing in a seafood market?
Hiding out, you silly fuck.
"Hiding out" from what, dumbass?
Why are you asking Edward? We wrote the poem--ask us!
Up to now (unlike your Edward and ME), you weren't pretending to be able to explain the problem with your poem. But, sure, if you want, you go right ahead.
There’s no problem with NG’s poem, dance.
What do you think is the problem with it?
Its message, that Chinese markets are the source of the pandemic. That's both racist (as Corey noted) and completely counterfactual.
NancyGene
2020-04-19 18:21:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
Post by George J. Dance
Post by Edward Rochester Esq.
Post by George J. Dance
Post by Edward Rochester Esq.
Post by ME
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
Is this meant to be a poem about the Wuhan Seafood Market?
Duuuhhhhh.......
Second...that Dance sure is smart
What are bats, pangolins, cats, and tigers doing in a seafood market?
Hiding out, you silly fuck.
"Hiding out" from what, dumbass?
Why are you asking Edward? We wrote the poem--ask us!
Up to now (unlike your Edward and ME), you weren't pretending to be able to explain the problem with your poem. But, sure, if you want, you go right ahead.
You are changing your question. What you asked above was, "Is this meant to be a poem about the Wuhan Seafood Market?" You now asking us to "explain the problem" with our poem? The poem states the problem, doesn't explain it. If you want to see pictures of 100s of species of animals "hanging around," there are plenty on the Internet. Some items you may be interested in are (from Wikipedia):

Badgers
Bamboo rats
Beavers
Camel
Chickens
Civets
Crocodiles
Dogs
Donkeys
Emmental cheese
Foxes
Frogs
Giant salamanders
Hedgehog
Herbs
Marmots
Ostrich
Otters
Pangolins[27] (disputed[28])
Peacocks
Pheasants
Pigs
Porcupines
Rabbit organs
Sheep
Snakes (including Bungarus multicinctus)
Spices
Spotted deer
Turtles
Vegetables
Wolf puppies

We are sure that if you asked, they would be able to produce whatever you wanted from behind the counters and in the cabinets.
George J. Dance
2020-04-22 16:34:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by NancyGene
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
Post by George J. Dance
Post by Edward Rochester Esq.
Post by George J. Dance
Post by Edward Rochester Esq.
Post by ME
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
Is this meant to be a poem about the Wuhan Seafood Market?
Duuuhhhhh.......
Second...that Dance sure is smart
What are bats, pangolins, cats, and tigers doing in a seafood market?
Hiding out, you silly fuck.
"Hiding out" from what, dumbass?
Why are you asking Edward? We wrote the poem--ask us!
Up to now (unlike your Edward and ME), you weren't pretending to be able to explain the problem with your poem. But, sure, if you want, you go right ahead.
You are changing your question. What you asked above was, "Is this meant to be a poem about the Wuhan Seafood Market?"
Indeed: It sounded like you were saying the coronavirus pandemic comes from Chinese people and all those nasty things they eat. So I asked that question to confirm if that's what was what you were saying.

ME and Rochester


You now asking us to "explain the problem" with our poem?

The poem states the problem, doesn't explain it.

No: the problem with your poem is its racist message: it reads as if you're claiming the coronavirus was caused by the Chinese people and what they eat. So I asked, to see if that was really your message.

ME and Jim confirmed it was, so I asked them (not you) to explain your poem's problem. Understand?

But now I will ask you. Explain why you think the pandemic was caused by Chinese people eating "cats" etc.

If you want to see pictures of 100s of species of animals "hanging around," there are plenty on the Internet.

No: I want to hear why you're blaming the pandemic on that.
Post by NancyGene
Badgers
Bamboo rats
Beavers
Camel
Chickens
Civets
Crocodiles
Dogs
Donkeys
Emmental cheese
Foxes
Frogs
Giant salamanders
Hedgehog
Herbs
Marmots
Ostrich
Otters
Pangolins[27] (disputed[28])
Peacocks
Pheasants
Pigs
Porcupines
Rabbit organs
Sheep
Snakes (including Bungarus multicinctus)
Spices
Spotted deer
Turtles
Vegetables
Wolf puppies
We are sure that if you asked, they would be able to produce whatever you wanted from behind the counters and in the cabinets.
And all of it (according to you, Rochester, and ME) infected with viruses, ready to kill hundreds of thousands of Americans (not to mention the rest of the world, but I'm sure you guys don't worry about that).
George J. Dance
2020-04-19 17:53:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by ME
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
Is this meant to be a poem about the Wuhan Seafood Market?
Duuuhhhhh.......
Yes, dear. What are bats, pangolins, cats, and tigers doing in a fish market?

Duuuhhhhh....... indeed.
NancyGene
2020-04-19 17:57:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by George J. Dance
Post by ME
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
Is this meant to be a poem about the Wuhan Seafood Market?
Duuuhhhhh.......
Yes, dear. What are bats, pangolins, cats, and tigers doing in a fish market?
Duuuhhhhh....... indeed.
It wasn't just a seafood market--it was a "live animal and seafood market" (wet market).
George J. Dance
2020-04-19 18:03:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by NancyGene
Post by George J. Dance
Post by ME
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
Is this meant to be a poem about the Wuhan Seafood Market?
Duuuhhhhh.......
Yes, dear. What are bats, pangolins, cats, and tigers doing in a fish market?
Duuuhhhhh....... indeed.
It wasn't just a seafood market--it was a "live animal and seafood market" (wet market).
Got pics? The only ones I've seen have been from after its closure.
ME
2020-04-19 18:09:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
Post by George J. Dance
Post by ME
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
Is this meant to be a poem about the Wuhan Seafood Market?
Duuuhhhhh.......
Yes, dear. What are bats, pangolins, cats, and tigers doing in a fish market?
Duuuhhhhh....... indeed.
It wasn't just a seafood market--it was a "live animal and seafood market" (wet market).
Got pics? The only ones I've seen have been from after its closure.
Oooowwww dance? You’re going to get nit-picky about a poem about this are you?
Do you really want to start nit-picking poems here?
Think about it, for a moment before you reply.
George J. Dance
2020-04-21 13:36:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by ME
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
Post by George J. Dance
Post by ME
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
Is this meant to be a poem about the Wuhan Seafood Market?
Duuuhhhhh.......
Yes, dear. What are bats, pangolins, cats, and tigers doing in a fish market?
Duuuhhhhh....... indeed.
It wasn't just a seafood market--it was a "live animal and seafood market" (wet market).
Got pics? The only ones I've seen have been from after its closure.
Oooowwww dance? You’re going to get nit-picky about a poem about this are you?
Do you really want to start nit-picking poems here?
Criticizing poetry is what non-trolls do, Willtroll. If you don't like it, you know where the exit is.
Post by ME
Think about it, for a moment before you reply.
ME
2020-04-19 18:02:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by George J. Dance
Post by ME
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
Is this meant to be a poem about the Wuhan Seafood Market?
Duuuhhhhh.......
Yes, dear. What are bats, pangolins, cats, and tigers doing in a fish market?
Duuuhhhhh....... indeed.
Maybe read the poem again, dance. And the read the next few posts.
George J. Dance
2020-04-19 18:08:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by ME
Post by George J. Dance
Post by ME
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
Is this meant to be a poem about the Wuhan Seafood Market?
Duuuhhhhh.......
Yes, dear. What are bats, pangolins, cats, and tigers doing in a fish market?
Duuuhhhhh....... indeed.
Maybe read the poem again, dance.
I did. Same question.
Post by ME
And the read the next few posts.
I did. Americans are obsessed with race and racism, aren't they?
ME
2020-04-19 18:09:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by George J. Dance
Post by ME
Post by George J. Dance
Post by ME
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
Is this meant to be a poem about the Wuhan Seafood Market?
Duuuhhhhh.......
Yes, dear. What are bats, pangolins, cats, and tigers doing in a fish market?
Duuuhhhhh....... indeed.
Maybe read the poem again, dance.
I did. Same question.
Post by ME
And the read the next few posts.
I did. Americans are obsessed with race and racism, aren't they?
You’re so full of shit, dance.
Edward Rochester Esq.
2020-04-19 18:11:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by ME
Post by George J. Dance
Post by ME
Post by George J. Dance
Post by ME
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
Is this meant to be a poem about the Wuhan Seafood Market?
Duuuhhhhh.......
Yes, dear. What are bats, pangolins, cats, and tigers doing in a fish market?
Duuuhhhhh....... indeed.
Maybe read the poem again, dance.
I did. Same question.
Post by ME
And the read the next few posts.
I did. Americans are obsessed with race and racism, aren't they?
You’re so full of shit, dance.
Never forget...Dunce is banned from the USA
George J. Dance
2020-04-22 16:36:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Edward Rochester Esq.
Post by ME
Post by George J. Dance
Post by ME
Post by George J. Dance
Post by ME
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we’ll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
Is this meant to be a poem about the Wuhan Seafood Market?
Duuuhhhhh.......
Yes, dear. What are bats, pangolins, cats, and tigers doing in a fish market?
Duuuhhhhh....... indeed.
Maybe read the poem again, dance.
I did. Same question.
Post by ME
And the read the next few posts.
I did. Americans are obsessed with race and racism, aren't they?
You’re so full of shit, dance.
Never forget...Dunce is banned from the USA
Everyone outside the USA is banned from it right now. Try to keep up.
Z***@none.i2p
2020-04-20 18:51:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
George J. Dance wrote on Sun, 19 April 2020 17:40
Post by George J. Dance
Post by NancyGene
Wooing Han
a poem by NancyGene
Fine and juicy pangolin,
served with bats,
or spotted cats,
striped tiger skin.
Make your choice then we'll wrap that
ground rhino horn,
small dogs unborn,
some right whale fat.
Fresh and wet, the markets hum
with turtle eggs,
the scourge to come.
Is this meant to be a poem about the Wuhan Seafood Market?
Seems to be...
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